About Australian Med schools

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Hello, I'm new to this forum.

I live in the US and am applying to medical school in Australia. I saw that there were several threads posted regarding schools in Australia. I applied to ANU (yes, I realize that its the first year, my second choice was U Sydney).

However, I think I read that ANU's program would share many aspects, if not the curriculum as U Sydney and U Queensland. I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about the reputation of ANU among native Australians and otherwise, as well.

I've been offered an interview by ANU and was wondering if there were any other applicants to ANU. I know that there are many to U Sydney, UQ, and other such places.

Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

--Laters!

ANU doesn't really have a reputation yet...but the course is very similar to the one at U of Q...

I think that as long as you are any Aussie school you should be okay.

If your plans are to stay in Australia you might find a bit of "bias" against ANU because it's post grad and it's a bit new....but if you're plans are to return to the US this shouldn't be a big deal.

ANU has been considered to be one of the best Aus. schools, if that's what you're asking. I remember ratings guides giving it top scores for various fields, I think most the sciences, and as a uni in general, but I don't remember the details. Sorry I can't be more specific.

-pitman

Originally posted by flindophile
If you are asking which schools have the best reputation in the US, I would guess those with the largest research output or those that have had the largest numbers of North American students.

And I'd think the answer to this would be Flinders and USyd, "accurate" or not -- for example, ANU can't have a rep for med b.c. it's new; Flinders has IMHO done a better marketing job than USyd of its US students (and has formal arrangements with some excellent US schools for electives -> res); and Syd has immediate recognition due to location, is oldest, and is known more by researchers. Note that all are 4-year grad schools and thus have more Americans than the undergrad programs (not necessarily a reflection of some "quality" score).

But if you want something to quantify, you won't find reliable data on res placements, nor an objective measure for how to compare them. Wanting such would also presume what matters to you most (?) is some predictive statistic for the average student getting back to the US for residency. Getting back is possible from any of them, depends on whether some undefinable increase in required effort to get back (and to where) would be outweighed by the subjective benefits of an otherwise preferred school .

-pitman

A rather imbittered Australian friend of mine once told me that the only bad austrlian medical school was the one with a tall brown building colloquially referred to as a vertical faeces... Is that Monash?

I think he was rejected ~

Hi guys,

just wondering if Australia is like Canada in that all the good universities are public (goverment funded). eg. Uni of Sydney, Queensland, etc


thanks, jack

Originally posted by jackts
Hi guys,

just wondering if Australia is like Canada in that all the good universities are public (goverment funded). eg. Uni of Sydney, Queensland, etc


thanks, jack

Yes they are all public Universities, i.e. there are no Private Universities that offer Medicine.

Most private schools as such are more referred to as Colleges, and they are not particularly great.

Personally i view private colleges as a route for people with money, but not necessarily the intellect to gain entrance into Universities.

I dont even know if there are any Private Universities.

In Australia all Universities undergraduate positions are funded by the Federal government, this goes for Med aswell. As international students you are paying significantly more money than us local residents. BUt to tell you the truth if it wasn't for internationals coming over and paying the big money for full fee paying positions the whole system would probably topple over.

For instance 1 year as a local student in Med costs about $6000 whereas international students are paying i think about $25,000 - $30,000 for 1 years tuition.

As far as ANU is concerned, next year is its first year of enrolment, there are brand new facilities that have been built and it is largely based on the Sydney PBL paradigm of learning.

The intake is comparatively small to Sydney and Queensland (ANU approx 80 students, UQ, USyd approx 250 students each).

Personally i would rather the smaller number of students, given you are more likely to form better relationships with the people you are attending with, and appreciate the quality of a smaller community offers. (having grown up in one myself and then moving to Sydney).

The quality of the teaching at ANU would be comparative to Sydney or UQ.

As someone mentioned earlier, we are not caught up in ranking everything that can be scrutinized, and you will not be scrutinized against regarding what school you attend.

Hope this has helped.

Bond is private and it'll be getting a med school soon.

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Bond is private and it'll be getting a med school soon.

Well there you go, i dont know where Bond is, and i never knew it was private.

So that should answer the previous question about the reputation of "Private Universities"

Thank you everyone for your info! It was very helpful.

I am not too concerned with ranking, as I have other reasons for wanting to go to Australia for med school. I believe one of you said in another thread, that you would prefer PBL hands-on approach of learning as opposed to the countless lectures and professors droning on. I do as well. My research background was in clinical studies of EBM-PBL. Hence, my interest.

I am not worried that ANU would not be ranked a prestigious school; I simply wanted a native's POV on that, since my knowledge of that region is little to none. Thank you all for providing that.

One more question, as I don't think this will be my last: I have read on ANU's website and U sydney's that there are scholarships available to international students. Does anyone know if there is any other source of income for intl students? I will probably have to rely for some part on my parents, but I do plan on paying at least half my tuition, but I'm looking for other ways to take up the slack remaining.

-Laters!

Originally posted by Jade Tigress
Thank you everyone for your info! It was very helpful.

I am not too concerned with ranking, as I have other reasons for wanting to go to Australia for med school. I believe one of you said in another thread, that you would prefer PBL hands-on approach of learning as opposed to the countless lectures and professors droning on. I do as well. My research background was in clinical studies of EBM-PBL. Hence, my interest.

I am not worried that ANU would not be ranked a prestigious school; I simply wanted a native's POV on that, since my knowledge of that region is little to none. Thank you all for providing that.

One more question, as I don't think this will be my last: I have read on ANU's website and U sydney's that there are scholarships available to international students. Does anyone know if there is any other source of income for intl students? I will probably have to rely for some part on my parents, but I do plan on paying at least half my tuition, but I'm looking for other ways to take up the slack remaining.

-Laters!

You are allowed to work on a student Visa, get a p/t job, although dont expect any big $$.

Originally posted by Jade Tigress
Thank you everyone for your info! It was very helpful.

I am not too concerned with ranking, as I have other reasons for wanting to go to Australia for med school. I believe one of you said in another thread, that you would prefer PBL hands-on approach of learning as opposed to the countless lectures and professors droning on. I do as well. My research background was in clinical studies of EBM-PBL. Hence, my interest.

I am not worried that ANU would not be ranked a prestigious school; I simply wanted a native's POV on that, since my knowledge of that region is little to none. Thank you all for providing that.

One more question, as I don't think this will be my last: I have read on ANU's website and U sydney's that there are scholarships available to international students. Does anyone know if there is any other source of income for intl students? I will probably have to rely for some part on my parents, but I do plan on paying at least half my tuition, but I'm looking for other ways to take up the slack remaining.

-Laters!

Here's the low down...you will have to take your student VISA to the DIMIA office in your city (Canberra) and get them to change it to a "working VISA"...this will cost you around $50 Aussie. That will allow you to work about 20 hours per week...but keep in mind Canberra is smaller than Sydney and thus it may be harder to find a job there. Also the minimum wage is higher here than in the US/Canada (esp. Canada even with conversion) but they will still tax you...

Alright another option you have is to apply for the scholarships...but as you know they are very competitive and they have few for international students. If your marks are competitive and your average is good Sydney offers the best scholarships.

If you are from Canada you can apply for the CSL which is better then a bank loan only for the reason that you don't have to pay any interest until after you graduate.

Originally posted by Jade Tigress
Does anyone know if there is any other source of income for intl students? I will probably have to rely for some part on my parents, but I do plan on paying at least half my tuition, but I'm looking for other ways to take up the slack remaining.

-Laters!

Why hasn't anyone mentioned tutoring? It's tax free, under the table so you don't have to worry about visa issues at all. Great money depending on who/what you are tutoring. (I was making $30NZ an hour tutoring first year university students this year, another friend of mine was holding small group tutorial sessions, $15/hour per person.. 6-7 people... lots of money).

If there isn't the same demand for tutoring at your uni, tutor 16,17 , 18 year olds for their school subjects. I'm sure you could make at least $10-15 Aus an hour, sitting down, with no visa issues.

Compare that to working as a waiter/ sales girl/guy... being yelled at for being stupid, idiotic boss, abusive clients... and making less money...

Originally posted by Purifyer
Why hasn't anyone mentioned tutoring? It's tax free, under the table so you don't have to worry about visa issues at all. Great money depending on who/what you are tutoring. (I was making $30NZ an hour tutoring first year university students this year, another friend of mine was holding small group tutorial sessions, $15/hour per person.. 6-7 people... lots of money).

If there isn't the same demand for tutoring at your uni, tutor 16,17 , 18 year olds for their school subjects. I'm sure you could make at least $10-15 Aus an hour, sitting down, with no visa issues.

Compare that to working as a waiter/ sales girl/guy... being yelled at for being stupid, idiotic boss, abusive clients... and making less money...

good point...if you do the tutoring it's 100% tax free....it's not exactly legal but I know of a lot of internationals doing it here.

But if you get a position at the Uni tutoring which some ppl. do that's not exactly tax free...so it all depends on what kind of tutoring you do.

Awesome ! Thanks to everyone who gave info!

I'm not expecting to make too much $$, but its nice to know that I still have that option open to me, regardless of how little that might be. Its a nice security.

Is there anywhere I can go to find out how Student, working or the different types of visas available to students work?

As for tutoring, that sounds attractive. I am an English major who loved and still loves to write. I've had jobs teaching as well, so thats quite a possibility. Thanks for the heads up Purifyer.

And as I've said before, I have another question. Does anyone know how living in Canberra is? Meaning, what would be the living costs and conditions? I've seen ppl tell about living costs in other cities, ie. Sydney, brisbane, and others, but not much about Canberra.

The way I see it, is that since its the Capital, perhaps its a ritzier area, although I could totally be wrong about this. WOuld someone shed some light on this?

Much obliged!

--Lata!

Originally posted by Jade Tigress
Awesome ! Thanks to everyone who gave info!

I'm not expecting to make too much $$, but its nice to know that I still have that option open to me, regardless of how little that might be. Its a nice security.

Is there anywhere I can go to find out how Student, working or the different types of visas available to students work?

As for tutoring, that sounds attractive. I am an English major who loved and still loves to write. I've had jobs teaching as well, so thats quite a possibility. Thanks for the heads up Purifyer.

And as I've said before, I have another question. Does anyone know how living in Canberra is? Meaning, what would be the living costs and conditions? I've seen ppl tell about living costs in other cities, ie. Sydney, brisbane, and others, but not much about Canberra.

The way I see it, is that since its the Capital, perhaps its a ritzier area, although I could totally be wrong about this. WOuld someone shed some light on this?

Much obliged!

--Lata!

It is a lot "ritzier" than a lot of cities in Autralia and you can expect that things will be a little more expensive there. But that's only when you compare it to Sydney and Melbourne. I personally found it more expensive than Sydney or Melbourne...but that's because you can always find a bargain there...If you know where to look.

As for your VISA you really don't have a choice...when you apply you can only get a student visa. After that if you want to get the working visa you have to do it when you're in Australia; as far as I'm aware there's no other type of visa for ppl. studying in Australia.

www.immi.gov.au

Originally posted by redshifteffect
good point...if you do the tutoring it's 100% tax free....it's not exactly legal but I know of a lot of internationals doing it here.

But if you get a position at the Uni tutoring which some ppl. do that's not exactly tax free...so it all depends on what kind of tutoring you do.

I'm talking about tutoring uni students without any 'official backing' from the uni. I have some friends who are paid tutors by the university.. they get paid peanuts (well.. ~$13-15 NZ per hour (pretax) for SO much more work than I do

Whoa! I just posted that like 5 mins ago and already a response. Thanks for the input! Really helps!

=)

Originally posted by Purifyer
I'm talking about tutoring uni students without any 'official backing' from the uni. I have some friends who are paid tutors by the university.. they get paid peanuts (well.. ~$13-15 NZ per hour (pretax) for SO much more work than I do

Share your secret..how do you find these students?

If you do private tutoring, don't you need to spend time writing your own worksheets and other teaching materials? If, on the other hand, you are employed by a teaching instution, you use the official material that is provided to you.

Dont worry about tutoring, it is very hit and miss.

Also a lot of people who get tutored, Uni students, school students are going to want a receit so they can claim it back come tax time, so doing the under the counter cash in hand business may be a bit risky.

Generally you will find 90% of Aussies would be more than happy to pay you cash in hand, because nearly everyone can empathise with what it is like to be a "battler" (i.e. Aussie Vernacular for someone who does it tough), but you are in Canberra, where there are a lot of government officials, so you would want to be careful. Tax Evasion is a serious fellany, and will result in your Visa being revoked if you get caught.

Check with the University's employment centre they usually have a lot of student friendly part time work available.

On a working Visa you can work a maximum of 20 hours/week, which should be sufficient.

Take Care!

Originally posted by Johnny69
Also a lot of people who get tutored, Uni students, school students are going to want a receit so they can claim it back come tax time, so doing the under the counter cash in hand business may be a bit risky.

Why would they want a receipt? How could the money spent on tuition be tax-deductible? This is new to me. (Of course, I know you're supposed to get an Australian Business Number, charge students GST and pass it on to the Australian Taxation Office, but I can't imagine anyone doing this in practice.)

Originally posted by mic
Why would they want a receipt? How could the money spent on tuition be tax-deductible? This is new to me. (Of course, I know you're supposed to get an Australian Business Number, charge students GST and pass it on to the Australian Taxation Office, but I can't imagine anyone doing this in practice.)

A lot of people who do tuturing legitimately do it through a business.

I.e. they work for a company, and the company gives them clients of the company. So that way they aren't working for themselves, so they dont have to worry about an ABN or GST.

I worked for one of these companies and i was paid $25/hour, but the work was not consistant. I.e. people would cancel, or they would not show up, and when holidays were on i lost a lot of clients, the work is too inconsistant!

One week i might have made $200 and the next week $60, i was jerked around a lot, not to mention i didn't have a car and some clients wanted to be tutored in their house for one hour, so i total i would spend 2 hours getting there tutoring and then coming home again for a measly $25. It is not worth the hassle!

Originally posted by Johnny69
A lot of people who do tuturing legitimately do it through a business.

I.e. they work for a company, and the company gives them clients of the company. So that way they aren't working for themselves, so they dont have to worry about an ABN or GST.

I worked for one of these companies and i was paid $25/hour, but the work was not consistant. I.e. people would cancel, or they would not show up, and when holidays were on i lost a lot of clients, the work is too inconsistant!

One week i might have made $200 and the next week $60, i was jerked around a lot, not to mention i didn't have a car and some clients wanted to be tutored in their house for one hour, so i total i would spend 2 hours getting there tutoring and then coming home again for a measly $25. It is not worth the hassle!

What students were you tutoring (uni/school/esol?)? I'm not implying anything, but I think working for a company is a pretty... silly way.. of getting 'clients' - there are more than enough if you advertise/ look for them.

All my tutoring is done at the study rooms of our university's central library... Not a far walk. I was never 'jerked' around either - again I wonder what sort of students you were tutoring.

Oh and I have never been asked for a receipt? Maybe things are drastically different in Australia (I doubt it) or you are tutoring a completely different group of people (how many students have even heard of a tax return? :)) )

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Share your secret..how do you find these students?

It's a bit different due to the nature of my university's medical entrance criteria. Essentially;

First year is just a BSc.... biochem/biology/stats/physics/english/chem

I did.. pretty well

Then for the next two years, I just plaster the walls of the university with posters, playing on the fears of first year uni students (who are doing the subjects I did) They see med, they see the marks, they think 'wow~!', they pay me outrageous sums of money.

- I had thought originally that most of my students would be med hopefuls, but actually they're mostly regular BSc'ers who want good marks. Also I try to appeal to the international market as they have money and are polite

Originally posted by Purifyer
What students were you tutoring (uni/school/esol?)? I'm not implying anything, but I think working for a company is a pretty... silly way.. of getting 'clients' - there are more than enough if you advertise/ look for them.

All my tutoring is done at the study rooms of our university's central library... Not a far walk. I was never 'jerked' around either - again I wonder what sort of students you were tutoring.

Oh and I have never been asked for a receipt? Maybe things are drastically different in Australia (I doubt it) or you are tutoring a completely different group of people (how many students have even heard of a tax return? ) )

I was tutoring Year 12 students. And their parents were the ones who paid, not the students, so the parents always wanted a receit.

I am not qualified enough to tutor Uni students, i did pretty good in my science subjects, but i dont think i am good enough to be paid to teach other students, not to mention i have no interest in re-learning all that organic chem again.

Tutoring was not an option during things like summer break, since Uni and school is finished, effectively leaving me without a source of income. At least i have stability at the lab, and set hours with paid leave.

I have rent to be paid, and i simply could not deal with the inconsistency of tutoring.

I think you are creating a real rosy image, when i know many people who have just gotten headaches from tutoring.

Originally posted by Johnny69
I was tutoring Year 12 students. And their parents were the ones who paid, not the students, so the parents always wanted a receit.

I am not qualified enough to tutor Uni students, i did pretty good in my science subjects, but i dont think i am good enough to be paid to teach other students, not to mention i have no interest in re-learning all that organic chem again.

Tutoring was not an option during things like summer break, since Uni and school is finished, effectively leaving me without a source of income. At least i have stability at the lab, and set hours with paid leave.

I have rent to be paid, and i simply could not deal with the inconsistency of tutoring.

I think you are creating a real rosy image, when i know many people who have just gotten headaches from tutoring.

I guess I am. Of course tutoring isn't an option in the summer, sorry if I implied that. I wasn't really talking about tutoring as a full time job. I was posting about it in regards to a part time job to have whilst studying.

Many things about tutoring suck (i) If you don't feel like it, too bad, you see this guy every day at 6pm (ii) There's a reason this guy wants tutoring. He either knows nothing, or is incredibly... dedicated. Both types are annoying (iii) Pay looks good, but as Johnny mentioned you should really halve it as you probably spend an hour preparing for every hour you tutor (iv) Student tells other students you suck behind your back... but still happily turning up to tutorials every day and paying $180 a week for it.

Still if you're looking at part time jobs, the only other options that are really available to med students would be (i) waiting [which sucks] (ii) Shop assistant [which is impossible to get without experience - and it sucks] (iii) Manual labour (iv) McDonalds worker. None of these jobs pay as well... and none of them have the same dignity. You sound like a uni graduate Johnny, I guess alot more doors are open for you... (lab etc)

Originally posted by Purifyer
I guess I am. Of course tutoring isn't an option in the summer, sorry if I implied that. I wasn't really talking about tutoring as a full time job. I was posting about it in regards to a part time job to have whilst studying.

Many things about tutoring suck (i) If you don't feel like it, too bad, you see this guy every day at 6pm (ii) There's a reason this guy wants tutoring. He either knows nothing, or is incredibly... dedicated. Both types are annoying (iii) Pay looks good, but as Johnny mentioned you should really halve it as you probably spend an hour preparing for every hour you tutor (iv) Student tells other students you suck behind your back... but still happily turning up to tutorials every day and paying $180 a week for it.

Still if you're looking at part time jobs, the only other options that are really available to med students would be (i) waiting [which sucks] (ii) Shop assistant [which is impossible to get without experience - and it sucks] (iii) Manual labour (iv) McDonalds worker. None of these jobs pay as well... and none of them have the same dignity. You sound like a uni graduate Johnny, I guess alot more doors are open for you... (lab etc)

IM not a Uni graduate, in my first year of Uni i sent my resume to Douglas Hanly Moir Pathology, www.dhm.com.au

One day they called me and asked me if i wanted to come in for an interview, so i did, and next day i had a job as a lab rat. It pays pretty good and the work is pretty interesting.

It is important to keep in mind that you dont necessarily have to apply to an advertised position, just send companies you would like to work for a copy of your resume. It shows initiative and a lot of companies like that. I modified my resume to emphasise my experience in the lab environment from my High school subjects and the labs i was currently doing at Uni as part of my chem and biol subjects.

Simple!

Whoa. This sounds exciting, except I'm not sure if I make a good tutor . Hahaha. I like teaching though, and I guess I should be able to teach first-year Physics and Math(s) and CS programming courses no problem (despite not seeing them for ages except briefly for the MCAT!)

Question: so, what about other jobs like computer programming/software development/webmaster/database management? Any ideas?

P.S. I guess tutoring still makes more money (especially post-tax), but I cringe at the illegal aspects of it. I don't wanna get kicked out of Oz for trying to earn a few bucks. Not worth the risk. I don't mind tutoring for free though since I love teaching. Hahaha. That'll kinda spoil the market. Whoops.

Originally posted by tl47
Whoa. This sounds exciting, except I'm not sure if I make a good tutor . Hahaha. I like teaching though, and I guess I should be able to teach first-year Physics and Math(s) and CS programming courses no problem (despite not seeing them for ages except briefly for the MCAT!)

Question: so, what about other jobs like computer programming/software development/webmaster/database management? Any ideas?

P.S. I guess tutoring still makes more money (especially post-tax), but I cringe at the illegal aspects of it. I don't wanna get kicked out of Oz for trying to earn a few bucks. Not worth the risk. I don't mind tutoring for free though since I love teaching. Hahaha. That'll kinda spoil the market. Whoops.

tl47 ...you can get a tutoring job arranged via the Uni. My Uni has a program where they'll set you up with the students...though I'm not sure how the whole tax thing works.

I'll have to agree though that getting a job in general without any Australian experience, and being a foreigner will not be easy...