How smart are Orthopedic surgeons?

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http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506








:-)

Originally Posted by Spine Specialist

http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506








:-)

When I saw the title of this thread, I was going to post this exact same article haha. My favorite part is the conclusion:

"The stereotypical image of male orthopaedic surgeons as strong but stupid is unjustified in comparison with their male anaesthetist counterparts. The comedic repertoire of the average anaesthetist needs to be revised in the light of these data. However, we would recommend caution in making fun of orthopaedic surgeons, as unwary anaesthetists may find themselves on the receiving end of a sharp and quick witted retort from their intellectually sharper friends or may be greeted with a crushing handshake at their next encounter"

hahaha, have seen you that there is one anesthesiologist with an IQ about 60?!

whoa this guy must be a beast when he has still made it through medschool!

Originally Posted by Toennis

hahaha, have seen you that there is one anesthesiologist with an IQ about 60?!

whoa this guy must be a beast when he has still made it through medschool!

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Apparently Toennis is an anesthesiologist.

What?

Originally Posted by Spine Specialist

http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506








:-)

How in the world did that actually get published? It's funny, but there's gotta be some story behind it ending up in a legit medical journal..

Apparantly it´s a tradition to publish lighthearted or entertaining articles in the christmas edition of the bmj.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/005246.html

Originally Posted by Toennis

What?

Re-read your previous statement, that's what.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

Re-read your previous statement, that's what.

Don´t have to. Still stand to it. But thanks for being an *******! (NOT)

Originally Posted by Toennis

Don´t have to. Still stand to it. But thanks for being an *******! (NOT)

He was pointing out your grammatical errors on a post about someone being unintelligent (irony). Relax.

Originally Posted by hanky1982

He was pointing out your grammatical errors on a post about someone being unintelligent (irony). Relax.

hahaha. got it!

Originally Posted by Toennis

Apparantly it´s a tradition to publish lighthearted or entertaining articles in the christmas edition of the bmj.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/005246.html

But it still begs the point as to whether any of these other articles (such as Anes vs Ortho) are real studies. This one passed the "sniff" test for me, and I ascribed it not as much to "is it real" as to "the so what test" - will it change anything?

does the phrase "strong as an ox..... and almost as smart" mean anything to you?

LOL just kidding..

Originally Posted by Socrates25

does the phrase "strong as an ox..... and almost as smart" mean anything to you?

LOL just kidding..

I certainly don't get your point. Depending on the author, solid data can be described in humorous ways. My point is, again, whether it is throw the whole baby out with the bathwater, or whether it was strictly a fiction from top to bottom. It's not like it is so outrageous as to be obvious satire.

Originally Posted by Spine Specialist

http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506








:-)

Funny. I suspect that the difference in IQ between orthopaedic surgeons and anesthesiologists in the U.S. would be significantly greater given the difference in the mean Step I and II scores, and medical school grades. Don't know about grip strength.

I always find it interesting that orthopaedic surgeons play up to the stereotype of the dumb jock. Everyone knows that you guys are very smart, disciplined students. Why not embrace your intellectual prowess, as well as your physical strength? Is it so repugnant to the ortho community to be thought of as smart jocks, than dumb jocks?

Originally Posted by igap

I always find it interesting that orthopaedic surgeons play up to the stereotype of the dumb jock. Everyone knows that you guys are very smart, disciplined students. Why not embrace your intellectual prowess, as well as your physical strength? Is it so repugnant to the ortho community to be thought of as smart jocks, than dumb jocks?

We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.

This.

And...why should I admit the 65yo female with an isolated hip fracture and a host of medical problems that are "stable"? I can tell you why we don't....no one wants these train wrecks sitting on your service for days when we can just simply place a hemi in there, do two dressing changes and call it a cure.

Originally Posted by Buckeye(OH)

This.

And...why should I admit the 65yo female with an isolated hip fracture and a host of medical problems that are "stable"? I can tell you why we don't....no one wants these train wrecks sitting on your service for days when we can just simply place a hemi in there, do two dressing changes and call it a cure.

You don't place a hemi, you slam one in. Gotta sound more macho.

Also my experience is that medicine consults do not pay as close attention as medicine primaries. If my wife's grandma broke her hip (mine are dead) I would want a medicine admit.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.

I agree with you in principle -- however far too often we get calls like "this patient is on a bunch of home meds" and want us to take over even when all of the patient's other medical issues are completely stable. Continuing the home regimen of a patient on 20 different meds that are all stable and dont require any kind of dosing changes should NOT lead to a transfer of service or a consult. If a patient's other medical problems rise to the surface following surgery, then by all means order a consult or transfer service.

It would be similar to me ordering an orthopedics consult on a 50 year old guy who was admitted for chest pain because he had a hip replaced 2 months ago and "we dont know anything about how to manage his hardware."

Originally Posted by DHT

You don't place a hemi, you slam one in. Gotta sound more macho.

Also my experience is that medicine consults do not pay as close attention as medicine primaries. If my wife's grandma broke her hip (mine are dead) I would want a medicine admit.

I'm sure the same is true for orthopedics primaries vs consults; everyone always looks a little closer at "their own" patients first before consults.

I'm also not sure that admitting to medicine is any better. At least at my hospital, surgery consults dont get the same attention as surgery primaries, meaning their surgeries are more likely to be delayed so the surgery folks can concentrate on their primary patients first. So the "chronic" patient ends up waiting a few days for surgery and then of course the **** hits the fan because they pick up cdiff or some other hospital-related complication while they were waiting for you guys to fix her.

Originally Posted by Socrates25

I agree with you in principle -- however far too often we get calls like "this patient is on a bunch of home meds" and want us to take over even when all of the patient's other medical issues are completely stable. Continuing the home regimen of a patient on 20 different meds that are all stable and dont require any kind of dosing changes should NOT lead to a transfer of service or a consult. If a patient's other medical problems rise to the surface following surgery, then by all means order a consult or transfer service.

It would be similar to me ordering an orthopedics consult on a 50 year old guy who was admitted for chest pain because he had a hip replaced 2 months ago and "we dont know anything about how to manage his hardware."

Admittedly, we don't do a good job recognizing when the patients aren't doing that hot.

Originally Posted by DHT

You don't place a hemi, you slam one in. Gotta sound more macho.

Also my experience is that medicine consults do not pay as close attention as medicine primaries. If my wife's grandma broke her hip (mine are dead) I would want a medicine admit.

I wanted to say slam it in, but I didnt want to sound too douchey. You know, Im practicing my patient talk.

Originally Posted by Socrates25

I agree with you in principle -- however far too often we get calls like "this patient is on a bunch of home meds" and want us to take over even when all of the patient's other medical issues are completely stable. Continuing the home regimen of a patient on 20 different meds that are all stable and dont require any kind of dosing changes should NOT lead to a transfer of service or a consult. If a patient's other medical problems rise to the surface following surgery, then by all means order a consult or transfer service.

It would be similar to me ordering an orthopedics consult on a 50 year old guy who was admitted for chest pain because he had a hip replaced 2 months ago and "we dont know anything about how to manage his hardware."

I agree completely with you. Its disheartening for me to round with my ortho attendings who consult IM on (literally) every patient - its not that hard to circle the "C" on the med sheet to continue home meds. The way I see it is that the ortho guys have no incentive to manage this stuff, even if they wanted to. We can consult medicine, which results in 1) less work with equal pay, and 2) the IM guys are generally happy because they can get paid for seeing an easy patient that took all of 10 minutes to see/dictate an H&P. I would like to think that after having been through med school I had the competency to manage these basic things, and as Socrates25 mentions, if problems arise after surgery then get a consult.

Originally Posted by climbhigh

I agree completely with you. Its disheartening for me to round with my ortho attendings who consult IM on (literally) every patient - its not that hard to circle the "C" on the med sheet to continue home meds. The way I see it is that the ortho guys have no incentive to manage this stuff, even if they wanted to. We can consult medicine, which results in 1) less work with equal pay, and 2) the IM guys are generally happy because they can get paid for seeing an easy patient that took all of 10 minutes to see/dictate an H&P. I would like to think that after having been through med school I had the competency to manage these basic things, and as Socrates25 mentions, if problems arise after surgery then get a consult.

I came in with this attitude. It was frowned upon. Who wants to deal with the legalities of something that you were only trained for in medical school? Its all about avoiding unnecessary risk.