dismissal appeal hearing

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i've been granted a hearing regarding my dismissal by my school (due to 3 course failures in one sem). for those who have been to similar situation such as this, do you guys have any tips/advice to increase my chances of having a good turn out? i'm super nervous about this

Originally Posted by infectionx24

i've been granted a hearing regarding my dismissal by my school (due to 3 course failures in one sem). for those who have been to similar situation such as this, do you guys have any tips/advice to increase my chances of having a good turn out? i'm super nervous about this

I know a student who appealed and lost. I still keep in touch and truly her life has improved significantly since she was forced out--no school stress, not worrying about the bleak job opportunities.

If you go to a private school it should be fairly easy to convince them that you can make it and pay tuition for the rest of school. If you go to a public school with real strict standards, idk what to say.

but in my shoes i would walk away and never look back at pharmacy

Originally Posted by Rph888

I know a student who appealed and lost. I still keep in touch and truly her life has improved significantly since she was forced out--no school stress, not worrying about the bleak job opportunities.

If you go to a private school it should be fairly easy to convince them that you can make it and pay tuition for the rest of school. If you go to a public school with real strict standards, idk what to say.

but in my shoes i would walk away and never look back at pharmacy

i'm just curious to know from your opinion, but why walk away from pharmacy? is it because of the bleak job opportunity?

Pretty much you have to explain your circumstances to them and how they affected your grades. Try to keep emotions out of it. Definitely bring up the fact that you were doing well during the semester and the circumstances caused the fail at finals and assure them that if you were given a second chance that outcomes will be different. See if remediation is an option instead of staying back a year.

Originally Posted by infectionx24

i'm just curious to know from your opinion, but why walk away from pharmacy? is it because of the bleak job opportunity?

if you are a p1 or p2 i would walk. p3 is questionable, p4 is a shame.

why walk? that's a good question.

short-term bleak job opportunity.
long-term bleak job opportunity+ pharmacy is losing power in the healthcare realm. we have no advocates for the profession. what is apha and ashp doing long term? ncpa is fighting a losing battle, but at least they are fighting.

long-term i strongly believe that demand for Rph labor will fall.

that is why you should walk away.

the question is, are you a p1, p2, p3? Its your future.

I don't really recall your original story, since you opened a new thread, but if I remember correctly, you were passing up until the finals, then you had some kind of family/personal issue and made you bomb the finals and put your grade into failure. Generally final exams are like 20-30% of your total grade, so I can see a decent 85-90 B+ student taking that big of a hit and failing. If this is the case, you have a really good argument for reinstatement/remediation. However, if you were struggling all semester long and the exams were the icing on the cake, you might have to really fight for this.

Originally Posted by Rph888

if you are a p1 or p2 i would walk. p3 is questionable, p4 is a shame.

why walk? that's a good question.

short-term bleak job opportunity.
long-term bleak job opportunity+ pharmacy is losing power in the healthcare realm. we have no advocates for the profession. what is apha and ashp doing long term? ncpa is fighting a losing battle, but at least they are fighting.

long-term i strongly believe that demand for Rph labor will fall.

that is why you should walk away.

the question is, are you a p1, p2, p3? Its your future.

currently a P2

Originally Posted by Ackj

I don't really recall your original story, since you opened a new thread, but if I remember correctly, you were passing up until the finals, then you had some kind of family/personal issue and made you bomb the finals and put your grade into failure. Generally final exams are like 20-30% of your total grade, so I can see a decent 85-90 B+ student taking that big of a hit and failing. If this is the case, you have a really good argument for reinstatement/remediation. However, if you were struggling all semester long and the exams were the icing on the cake, you might have to really fight for this.

yes you are correct. but in my case, it's unique and i dont know how well arguable it is. basically throughout the semester, my exams grades are fairly decent-they fall between 78-82. however for two of my electives (non-science classes), your grade is pretty much the avg of your midterm and final, and i failed the midterms for both of them (for one of the classes, i failed by one question and got a 69 for the course grade and the other class, i failed horrendously-got a 59 for the course grade). for one of my core classes, my exam avg before the final is ~75 and i got all my points for my quizzes, but i did horrible on the final and i ended up with a 69 as the course grade.

I have also gotten two of my directors (and maybe my facilitator) to advocate for me on my behalf. but with the internal politics thats going on at the administrative level at my school, im not quite sure if they will be forgiving

Originally Posted by infectionx24

yes you are correct. but in my case, it's unique and i dont know how well arguable it is. basically throughout the semester, my exams grades are fairly decent-they fall between 78-82. however for two of my electives (non-science classes), your grade is pretty much the avg of your midterm and final, and i failed the midterms for both of them (for one of the classes, i failed by one question and got a 69 for the course grade and the other class, i failed horrendously-got a 59 for the course grade). for one of my core classes, my exam avg before the final is ~75 and i got all my points for my quizzes, but i did horrible on the final and i ended up with a 69 as the course grade.

I have also gotten two of my directors (and maybe my facilitator) to advocate for me on my behalf. but with the internal politics thats going on at the administrative level at my school, im not quite sure if they will be forgiving

If you don't mind can I know what state the school is or the name of the school? Or you can just tell me whether it is a private or public school.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by infectionx24

currently a P2

My advice? Cut your losses and change your major now. Even 3 years ago, I would have recommended that you appeal, but not now. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Originally Posted by infectionx24

yes you are correct. but in my case, it's unique and i dont know how well arguable it is. basically throughout the semester, my exams grades are fairly decent-they fall between 78-82. however for two of my electives (non-science classes), your grade is pretty much the avg of your midterm and final, and i failed the midterms for both of them (for one of the classes, i failed by one question and got a 69 for the course grade and the other class, i failed horrendously-got a 59 for the course grade). for one of my core classes, my exam avg before the final is ~75 and i got all my points for my quizzes, but i did horrible on the final and i ended up with a 69 as the course grade.

I have also gotten two of my directors (and maybe my facilitator) to advocate for me on my behalf. but with the internal politics thats going on at the administrative level at my school, im not quite sure if they will be forgiving

actions speak louder than words, you do not have a "passion" for pharmacy this is shown in your grades. that is fine, but you are probably not some one who would continue because they "love" the field and the work. if you get your appeal, you have a long career ahead, just like the rest of us--full of budget cuts, mtm stagnation, and falling wages, oversupply of labor.--look at the facts.

frankly, i would use this as an opportunity to walk away as a p2. take some time off, collect your mind. start a new academic life. i am not joking.

the main thing is, what ever you do, never ever look back, that is the most dangerous road to walk

good luck

Originally Posted by Rph888

actions speak louder than words, you do not have a "passion" for pharmacy this is shown in your grades. that is fine, but you are probably not some one who would continue because they "love" the field and the work.

How do you even know that the OP doesn't have a passion for pharmacy? That's ridiculous. Passion & love doesn't always translate directly to grades.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that two of you are advocating for the OP to walk away with up to $50k in pharma school debt with no degree (not to mention any undergrad debt). How do you suggest getting out from under that? That's a lot of burgers to flip.

It's definitely worth trying the appeal.

Originally Posted by xtsukiyox

How do you even know that the OP doesn't have a passion for pharmacy? That's ridiculous. Passion & love doesn't always translate directly to grades.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that two of you are advocating for the OP to walk away with up to $50k in pharma school debt with no degree (not to mention any undergrad debt). How do you suggest getting out from under that? That's a lot of burgers to flip.

It's definitely worth trying the appeal.

I agree. Tell your story. I know of a couple students (one at a private school and another at a public school) that had success appealing dismissal decisions. Good luck!

Originally Posted by xtsukiyox

How do you even know that the OP doesn't have a passion for pharmacy? That's ridiculous. Passion & love doesn't always translate directly to grades.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that two of you are advocating for the OP to walk away with up to $50k in pharma school debt with no degree (not to mention any undergrad debt). How do you suggest getting out from under that? That's a lot of burgers to flip.

It's definitely worth trying the appeal.

passion for pharmacy can be linked to effort. they posted that they could do the work, but it looks like they did not put in the effort to pass the electives and the final.

come on, if you really care about something it shows in your effort. you know that. the key is that this person seems like they could have easily passed, yet did not.

as for you second part, let me use an analogy.

say you order a hamburger for lunch. it looks good on the menu, but when you bite into it, your gut tells you something is funny. The temperature of the meat is not hot enough, but yet it is tasty and you spent $3 on it. Do you throw it away, or think "darn i already spent $3, i am going to finish?"

In this case, the burger is pharmacy and i say to this OP, walk away from the burger. You can finish it and be happy, or you can finish it and get sick, no one knows what will happen.

Originally Posted by rph3664

My advice? Cut your losses and change your major now. Even 3 years ago, I would have recommended that you appeal, but not now. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Sadly, I agree. Opportunities for new grads - especially new grads with mediocre records - are drying up. This is probably a blessing in disguise because 2 years from now you won't have to compete with a million other new grads for the very few jobs available. Good luck in your next endeavor.

Originally Posted by Dalteparin

Sadly, I agree. Opportunities for new grads - especially new grads with mediocre records - are drying up. This is probably a blessing in disguise because 2 years from now you won't have to compete with a million other new grads for the very few jobs available. Good luck in your next endeavor.

And it's even worse for people with experience, since so many places are only hiring new grads. Ask me how I know about THAT.

If this job tanks for whatever reason (and as of right now, I sure don't see that happening! ) I'll probably leave the profession. I was seriously thinking about doing that as it was, before I got that contract job last summer and then the permanent job I have now.

Regarding the contract job: While I was grateful to have it, and worked with a great group of people, I realized almost immediately that it was NOT a place where I wanted to sign on as a regular employee. Among other things, it was a start-up and the regular employees were not getting reliably paid. Yeah, you don't want to work for a company that doesn't pay its employees, regardless of what you're doing.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Originally Posted by Rph888

say you order a hamburger for lunch. it looks good on the menu, but when you bite into it, your gut tells you something is funny. The temperature of the meat is not hot enough, but yet it is tasty and you spent $3 on it. Do you throw it away, or think "darn i already spent $3, i am going to finish?"

I like the effort, but I would definitely finish the burger. If it's tasty, it's eaten. That's the flaw to the argument; pharmacy is not tasty, so you don't have to finish it.

Originally Posted by xtsukiyox

How do you even know that the OP doesn't have a passion for pharmacy? That's ridiculous. Passion & love doesn't always translate directly to grades.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that two of you are advocating for the OP to walk away with up to $50k in pharma school debt with no degree (not to mention any undergrad debt). How do you suggest getting out from under that? That's a lot of burgers to flip.

It's definitely worth trying the appeal.

my sentiments exactly!

Originally Posted by xtsukiyox

How do you even know that the OP doesn't have a passion for pharmacy? That's ridiculous. Passion & love doesn't always translate directly to grades.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that two of you are advocating for the OP to walk away with up to $50k in pharma school debt with no degree (not to mention any undergrad debt). How do you suggest getting out from under that? That's a lot of burgers to flip.

It's definitely worth trying the appeal.

Yeah, and good luck trying to get a job doing anything else with a pharmacy degree. If you apply for a job in another field, even something that's minimum wage and no benefits and they need a lot of people now, trust me, HR will tell you, in so many words, to GTFO and FOAD.

Originally Posted by Ackj

I like the effort, but I would definitely finish the burger. If it's tasty, it's eaten. That's the flaw to the argument; pharmacy is not tasty, so you don't have to finish it.

we are on different pages...see below

no, the argument is...the hamburger is potentially undercooked and may lead to food poisoning. Even if it tastes okay, it may get you sick. throw the burger away, do not risk health

pharmacy is the undercooked hamburger. you may enjoy a good burger and not get sick (IE GET A FULL TIME JOB) or you may eat the burger and get food poisoning (IE GO UNDER-EMPLOYED/ JOBLESS in a heap of debt).

i say walk away from the burger, walk away from pharmacy, never ever look back at that hamburger.

capisce ?

Originally Posted by Rph888

we are on different pages...see below

no, the argument is...the hamburger is potentially undercooked and may lead to food poisoning. Even if it tastes okay, it may get you sick. throw the burger away, do not risk health

pharmacy is the undercooked hamburger. you may enjoy a good burger and not get sick (IE GET A FULL TIME JOB) or you may eat the burger and get food poisoning (IE GO UNDER-EMPLOYED/ JOBLESS in a heap of debt).

i say walk away from the burger, walk away from pharmacy, never ever look back at that hamburger.

capisce ?

Did I miss something here? Unless something new has developed, I don't think loans are forgiven for academic dismissal. How do you propose the OP pays back their student loans with no degree?

Most "Fill_in_the_blank_with_your_healthcare_profession is dead" trolls that infest the SDN forums do not have a legitimate answer for this question. The recession proof profession that they encourage everyone else to be moving to has still yet to be revealed by them. However, they strangely seem to know everyone's internal motivation for wanting to be in their particular profession. As such, they seem to have full authority to tell others that they don't really want to pursue a Fill_in_the_blank_with_your_healthcare_profession career.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

Did I miss something here? Unless something new has developed, I don't think loans are forgiven for academic dismissal. How do you propose the OP pays back their student loans with no degree?

Originally Posted by Sparda29

Did I miss something here? Unless something new has developed, I don't think loans are forgiven for academic dismissal. How do you propose the OP pays back their student loans with no degree?

Go to work, that is what they should do. No loan forgiveness. OP gambled on pharmacy and is losing, sorry. Pick up the pieces in life and move on. I cannot suggest going further into debt when they already failed. If there were extenuating circumstances, maybe different, but who says they wont fail again and be in more debt? cut losses now...

Originally Posted by netmag

Most "Fill_in_the_blank_with_your_healthcare_profession is dead" trolls that infest the SDN forums do not have a legitimate answer for this question. The recession proof profession that they encourage everyone else to be moving to has still yet to be revealed by them. However, they strangely seem to know everyone's internal motivation for wanting to be in their particular profession. As such, they seem to have full authority to tell others that they don't really want to pursue a Fill_in_the_blank_with_your_healthcare_profession career.

go into other fields such as medicine, dental. In 2012, i would avoid healthcare in general--consider sales, blue-collar work--the key there is there is much less debt, you know what you are getting into.

Not joking.

Originally Posted by Rph888

Go to work, that is what they should do. No loan forgiveness. OP gambled on pharmacy and is losing, sorry. Pick up the pieces in life and move on. I cannot suggest going further into debt when they already failed. If there were extenuating circumstances, maybe different, but who says they wont fail again and be in more debt? cut losses now...



go into other fields such as medicine, dental. In 2012, i would avoid healthcare in general--consider sales, blue-collar work--the key there is there is much less debt, you know what you are getting into.

Not joking.

Oh boy, that's a great career in a crappy economy...sales!

It's recession proof, people!

But you have no debt, so it is like making six figures, right? Just ask anyone who makes six figures, they will tell you.

Originally Posted by chemtopharm

Oh boy, that's a great career in a crappy economy...sales!

It's recession proof, people!

Originally Posted by owlegrad

But you have no debt, so it is like making six figures, right? Just ask anyone who makes six figures, they will tell you.

You definitely have an advantage going this route for the short term. Out of high school you get a job making 30k or so, no student loans. With a 6 year degree, that's 180k + student loans ahead of a pharmacy graduate. Assuming 120k in debt, they're 300k ahead, not even considering interest, and have probably gotten a raise or two in that 6 year span. Of course, once the pharmacist actually starts working you're going to be making triple what the other guy makes. But that doesn't matter actually, since there won't be any jobs left by the time they graduate

Originally Posted by Rph888

Go to work, that is what they should do. No loan forgiveness. OP gambled on pharmacy and is losing, sorry. Pick up the pieces in life and move on. I cannot suggest going further into debt when they already failed. If there were extenuating circumstances, maybe different, but who says they wont fail again and be in more debt? cut losses now...

And what possible work can someone with no degree and a dismissal from pharmacy school do? You expect someone to be able to pay off that debt with a job at McDs?

Originally Posted by Rph888

we are on different pages...see below

no, the argument is...the hamburger is potentially undercooked and may lead to food poisoning. Even if it tastes okay, it may get you sick. throw the burger away, do not risk health

pharmacy is the undercooked hamburger. you may enjoy a good burger and not get sick (IE GET A FULL TIME JOB) or you may eat the burger and get food poisoning (IE GO UNDER-EMPLOYED/ JOBLESS in a heap of debt).

i say walk away from the burger, walk away from pharmacy, never ever look back at that hamburger.

capisce ?

I thought the hamburger was a metaphor for bold type? I'm so confused. So if I order a Happy Meal and the burger is undercooked but the toy is really good, should I bold all my sentences or buy a shirt with a blue collar?

Please help!

Originally Posted by infectionx24

i've been granted a hearing regarding my dismissal by my school (due to 3 course failures in one sem). for those who have been to similar situation such as this, do you guys have any tips/advice to increase my chances of having a good turn out? i'm super nervous about this

Be sincere, and give it your best. As the great Mr.Lombardi would say - “If you aren’t fired with enthusiasm, you’ll be fired with enthusiasm.”

Originally Posted by Sparda29

And what possible work can someone with no degree and a dismissal from pharmacy school do? You expect someone to be able to pay off that debt with a job at McDs?

I would look for higher paying work, maybe a waitressing job where you can get tips. McD is a starting point though. Also go back to undergrad for a degree in higher demand if possible. Though there is nothing wrong with being a waitress it can be a good career.

Originally Posted by DelawareStudent

I thought the hamburger was a metaphor for bold type? I'm so confused. So if I order a Happy Meal and the burger is undercooked but the toy is really good, should I bold all my sentences or buy a shirt with a blue collar?

Please help!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=889522

Its tough in Delaware. As Vince Lombardi would say "What the hell is going on out there?!"
buy the shirt with the blue collar and return both the hamburger and toy.

Originally Posted by infectionx24

i've been granted a hearing regarding my dismissal by my school (due to 3 course failures in one sem). for those who have been to similar situation such as this, do you guys have any tips/advice to increase my chances of having a good turn out? i'm super nervous about this

Update please!! How did the hearing go? Did it happen yet? Did they give you another chance??

Originally Posted by Rph888

Its tough in Delaware. As Vince Lombardi would say "What the hell is going on out there?!"
buy the shirt with the blue collar and return both the hamburger and toy.

Found 8 or 9 jobs for various specialties posted on Career Builder in DE alone. Many more in Philly (30 minutes) away.

There are plenty of jobs, they just don't all apply to every pharmacist. Which is generically true of any major or profession and it's relative job opportunities.

Originally Posted by Sparda29

And what possible work can someone with no degree and a dismissal from pharmacy school do? You expect someone to be able to pay off that debt with a job at McDs?

Whatever debt the OP has now is fairly trivial compared to what he/she will have in the end. Assuming the OP has federal loans, there is a wide range of flexibility to pay on them while he makes new plans for the future.

Originally Posted by mustang sally

Whatever debt the OP has now is fairly trivial compared to what he/she will have in the end. Assuming the OP has federal loans, there is a wide range of flexibility to pay on them while he makes new plans for the future.

Or, for that matter, defer them while s/he decides on a new major.

Originally Posted by Rph888

I would look for higher paying work, maybe a waitressing job where you can get tips. McD is a starting point though. Also go back to undergrad for a degree in higher demand if possible. Though there is nothing wrong with being a waitress it can be a good career.



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=889522

Its tough in Delaware. As Vince Lombardi would say "What the hell is going on out there?!"
buy the shirt with the blue collar and return both the hamburger and toy.



Update please!! How did the hearing go? Did it happen yet? Did they give you another chance??

yes, i got my hearing and they gave me another chance. im back in pharmacy school DDDDDDDDDD

Originally Posted by infectionx24

yes, i got my hearing and they gave me another chance. im back in pharmacy school DDDDDDDDDD

I was going to tell you to follow your heart, but saw your good news instead. Glad to hear your good news! Don't let this second chance in life slip away again! Redeem yourself and believe in yourself when no one else does.


This might motivate you. "Remember that failure is not the opposite of success, it is a part of success!" Good luck

Originally Posted by infectionx24

yes, i got my hearing and they gave me another chance. im back in pharmacy school DDDDDDDDDD

This must be a sign that you're meant to go on. I wish you the best!

Originally Posted by infectionx24

yes, i got my hearing and they gave me another chance. im back in pharmacy school DDDDDDDDDD

It is really nice when people come back to tell us how things worked out.

CONGRATULATIONS!

Originally Posted by infectionx24

yes, i got my hearing and they gave me another chance. im back in pharmacy school DDDDDDDDDD

Great News!.

Originally Posted by infectionx24

i've been granted a hearing regarding my dismissal by my school (due to 3 course failures in one sem). for those who have been to similar situation such as this, do you guys have any tips/advice to increase my chances of having a good turn out? i'm super nervous about this

Hi, Could you tell me, how you got the hearing in the first place?
Did you contacted them? Did you talk to the dean?

You can message me if you want to keep it private.
All secrets will stay with me. Believe me, mine are much worse.

Thank you Ahead of Time.

May I know how you appealed successfully? I was recently dismissed from pharmacy school due to failure to disclose my prior attendence in another pharmacy school on PharmCAS two years ago when my father came to the United States as a refugee. I was academically dismissed but did not know how to deal with it on the application when I reapplied for pharmacy school. I have successfully passed two quaters at this pharmacy school that took me before they found out. Any Advice (feedback) would be helpful!!

Originally Posted by fortunegookie

May I know how you appealed successfully? I was recently dismissed from pharmacy school due to failure to disclose my prior attendence in another pharmacy school on PharmCAS two years ago when my father came to the United States as a refugee. I was academically dismissed but did not know how to deal with it on the application when I reapplied for pharmacy school. I have successfully passed two quaters at this pharmacy school that took me before they found out. Any Advice (feedback) would be helpful!!

That's a tough one. Deliberate lying/unethicalness is a lot more difficult to explain than failing grades. You will have to convince the appeal person/committee that you have changed and that you are now ethical and aboveboard. Obviously, if you had been expelled for bad grades, convincing the appeal person/committee that you are going to buckle down and study is much easier than having to convinced the appeal person/commitee that you aren't lying when you say you are now honest. Or that the omission was a horrendous one time lapse of judgement that would never be repeated. It would probably be helpful if you could come up with examples in your life showing you are a changed person.