SGU vs KCUMB

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Ross

they do 500 student x 3 terms...

1500 a year!!!

In addition they bought a new school

SGU has 2x 500

+ their new program in england..which is another 100 x2

looking 2200 students a year...

lets be honest..if you cannot get into DO..your going carrib that simple...
their bussiness model is getting jacked down..most of these schools wont exist in 5 years time

as new DOschools open (as they are cheap)
increase enrollment for classes...and sat capuses
same with MD

and at the end you have decrease in rez spots

SGU is one of the best..but i would not want to be a student in 5 years time

sorry 1200

Go SGU if having an MD after your name is any concern at all for you.

Go KCUMB if you want to match non-primary care somewhere and don't care about having a DO after your name.

Originally Posted by ksmajmudar

Go SGU if having an MD after your name is any concern at all for you.

Go KCUMB if you want to match non-primary care somewhere and don't care about having a DO after your name.

"Any" concern is pushing it. If that were the case a good portion of current D.O. students would have never matriculated. I would say if it's a big concern, then have fun racking up debt on the islands with a dwindling chance of landing a residency, in any speciality, in the latter half of this decade.

And just to throw it out there, all med students should be somewhat comfortable with the possibility of entering primary care someday (at least 1 out of every 2 of us will)... if not, then reconsider this whole med school thing.

Just out of curiosity, say a FMG did well on the step one, why would it be so difficult for them to match a more competitive speciality

Originally Posted by musclemilk619

Just out of curiosity, say a FMG did well on the step one, why would it be so difficult for them to match a more competitive speciality

Probably the same reason why it's difficult for a DO student to match into more competitive ACGME programs - bias by some programs for one reason or another. I've also heard some say that an FMG may have more time to prep for the USMLE so the scores may be a bit inflated (not sure how accurate that is, just repeating what I read in another thread at some point).

At least DO's have the AOA match if they're gunning for ROADs though.

Originally Posted by ksmajmudar

Go SGU if having an MD after your name is any concern at all for you.

Go KCUMB if you want a job.

Fixed that for you.

Originally Posted by Dharma

Probably the same reason why it's difficult for a DO student to match into more competitive ACGME programs - bias by some programs for one reason or another. I've also heard some say that an FMG may have more time to prep for the USMLE so the scores may be a bit inflated (not sure how accurate that is, just repeating what I read in another thread at some point).

At least DO's have the AOA match if they're gunning for ROADs though.

How many spots per specialty?

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

How many spots per specialty?

You can find that information here: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm

I want to say that rad. onc. is one of the most difficult DO matches because of the minimal AOA support, but that could just be what I have heard/read.

This thread has gone off topic but rad onc is difficult even as an MD. Many stellar MD applicants get turned away even though they have taken a year off to do research.

I don't think you can even compare SGU and KCUMB. KCUMB has a fantastic match list year after year while students from SGU struggle to even get a residency, let alone a residency of their choice.

This may sound biased as I am currently a student at KCUMB, but I can tell you some positive things to help you make your decision. First, the curriculum is very condusive to preparing you for clinical senarios, both primary care and non-primary care. The opportunites for making connections at this school are fairly numerous also. Clubs are constantly bring in residency directors to speak and discuss how to make yourself more competitive for residencies. This school also has some pretty strong connections with the Univesity of Kansas and the University of Missouri Kansas City. Last, the school requires a lot out of its students, which I believe is the hallmark of a good school. I have heard from many preceptors and students that even those students whose grades were less than stellar performed very well during rotations and were thus able to secure decent residencies. I have heard mixed reviews of SGU, but one thing I have heard from friends of mine who attend SGU is that a large chunk of the SGU student body chose SGU b/c they either had no other option (on US soil that is) or just liked the idea of being in the caribbean. Just some food for thought.

Go D.O. of course!

Originally Posted by bsa

This thread has gone off topic but rad onc is difficult even as an MD. Many stellar MD applicants get turned away even though they have taken a year off to do research.

I don't think you can even compare SGU and KCUMB. KCUMB has a fantastic match list year after year while students from SGU struggle to even get a residency, let alone a residency of their choice.

I agree 155%!!

people start posting how they wanna do some UBER highly competitive speciality that MOSTTTTTTTTTTTTT MDs cannot get into even with a harvard MD...

like commmonnnnn

KCUMB (and any other DO school) >>>> SGU

/endthread

Unless you're going to medical school for a degree, and not the profession, go the KCUMB. There is no other reason to move to another country.

hey guys, thanks for all you input... i have decided to let go of KCUMB and go to SGU. Given what all you guys said is true but i've lately been hearing a lot about this - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=862903 and this made me just pursue the MD route since I do want to an ACGME residency and it seems that starting 2014 DO students won't be able to attain allo residencies as well as fellowships.
Also, I really only care about ACGME residencies and when we compare SGU vs KCUMB (looking at just allo residencies and not extra choice of applying to AOA residencies), i think then SGU and KCUMB come neck to neck.

I think you made the right decision based on what is important to you. Never join a profession that you don't want to be fully part of. Good luck!

Originally Posted by acesup123

I think you made the right decision based on what is important to you. Never join a profession that you don't want to be fully part of. Good luck!

Its not about not being a full part of the profession. Fact is most students in DO schools, that was their backup plan (only some students ONLY apply to DO schools) which is also evident by the fact that most DO graduates apply for / want to land in / and attain allo residencies rather than AOA residencies...does this make all of those students "not being a full part of the profession". I think not! I think everyone wants to succeed and get the best they can ... and with this new petition / law almost at the verge of being passed, if DO students won't even qualify to apply to any ACGME residencies, then I think it takes away the advantage that DO schools have over a top rated carrib school such as SGU.

i'd be more interested in this discussion in 4 years to be honest... you are taking a gamble, best of luck to you!

i think i'm playing it safe and not taking a gamble by going to the DO route knowing that if this law passes, doors to all the ACGME residencies will be closed

Originally Posted by twist25

i think i'm playing it safe and not taking a gamble by going to the DO route knowing that if this law passes, doors to all the ACGME residencies will be closed

Yes, please go to SGU.

You're clearly incapable of simple reading, which is something that actual doctors should be able to. ACGME won't be closed to DO's. What will be closed is going from a DO internship to a second year ACGME residency, which means that a DO with an ACGME internship will be completely fine for an ACGME residency. The other door closed is DO resident going for ACGME fellowship, which by your desires you don't wish to even do a DO residency.

Seriously, please go to SGU. I'd hate to have you in my class.

Originally Posted by RIdoc11

i'd be more interested in this discussion in 4 years to be honest... you are taking a gamble, best of luck to you!

I would love to hear back in 4 years from now too. I came to the exact opposite decision as you regarding a diff DO school

This thread ended well.

I really can't.

But by 2017, if I have any more influence on the matter, I'll probably have offshore schools gone the way "spanish schools." For those of you who are wondering what I mean by "spanish schools".... that's exactly my point.

LOL @ the OP

Good luck watching half your friends fail out of school and then going on to experience discrimination when trying to come back to the states for residency.

You've chosen a tough (and expen$ive) road.

Originally Posted by twist25

hey guys, thanks for all you input... i have decided to let go of KCUMB and go to SGU. Given what all you guys said is true but i've lately been hearing a lot about this - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=862903 and this made me just pursue the MD route since I do want to an ACGME residency and it seems that starting 2014 DO students won't be able to attain allo residencies as well as fellowships.

Yeah, you didn't read that right. Good luck.

Originally Posted by twist25

hey guys, thanks for all you input... i have decided to let go of KCUMB and go to SGU. Given what all you guys said is true but i've lately been hearing a lot about this - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=862903 and this made me just pursue the MD route since I do want to an ACGME residency and it seems that starting 2014 DO students won't be able to attain allo residencies as well as fellowships.
Also, I really only care about ACGME residencies and when we compare SGU vs KCUMB (looking at just allo residencies and not extra choice of applying to AOA residencies), i think then SGU and KCUMB come neck to neck.

Holy crap i cringed when I read this post. This kid went to the caribbean based on the fact that potentially if he did an AOA residency then he couldn't do an ACGME fellowship. The chances of that every effecting you are so slim. Most people do ACGME residencies and can thus do ACGME fellowships. Also, this thing probably won't pass. Please tell me you didn't call KCUMB and turn down the acceptance already?

Originally Posted by twist25

i think i'm playing it safe and not taking a gamble by going to the DO route knowing that if this law passes, doors to all the ACGME residencies will be closed

I guess we know which part of the MCAT you didn't do so well on.

Hint: rhymes with gerbil

Originally Posted by twist25

hey guys, thanks for all you input... i have decided to let go of KCUMB and go to SGU. Given what all you guys said is true but i've lately been hearing a lot about this - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=862903 and this made me just pursue the MD route since I do want to an ACGME residency and it seems that starting 2014 DO students won't be able to attain allo residencies as well as fellowships.
Also, I really only care about ACGME residencies and when we compare SGU vs KCUMB (looking at just allo residencies and not extra choice of applying to AOA residencies), i think then SGU and KCUMB come neck to neck.

Tragic reading comprehension fail.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by twist25

hey guys, thanks for all you input... i have decided to let go of KCUMB and go to SGU. Given what all you guys said is true but i've lately been hearing a lot about this - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=862903 and this made me just pursue the MD route since I do want to an ACGME residency and it seems that starting 2014 DO students won't be able to attain allo residencies as well as fellowships.
Also, I really only care about ACGME residencies and when we compare SGU vs KCUMB (looking at just allo residencies and not extra choice of applying to AOA residencies), i think then SGU and KCUMB come neck to neck.

Too funny

Originally Posted by twist25

hey guys, thanks for all you input... i have decided to let go of KCUMB and go to SGU. Given what all you guys said is true but i've lately been hearing a lot about this - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=862903 and this made me just pursue the MD route since I do want to an ACGME residency and it seems that starting 2014 DO students won't be able to attain allo residencies as well as fellowships.
Also, I really only care about ACGME residencies and when we compare SGU vs KCUMB (looking at just allo residencies and not extra choice of applying to AOA residencies), i think then SGU and KCUMB come neck to neck.

I see all these people whine about going to DO, and some even getting DO acceptances, and still considering their Caribbean acceptances. My response to this is, once a US grad, always a US grad. Besides, if the MD is all that important, I'm not sure how it works exactly, but I'm sure you could get an MD from one of those Caribbean schools, by taking a few classes online (maybe not even required) and having your colleague sign off on your supposed work in the hospital that you are already doing. There is a reason maybe, why some people get an MD from the Caribbean, after the DO. Although extremely rare to begin with, I have seen at least 2 or 3 docs in gynecology that have done this. Ask me if there is some link to this specific field, I don't know, just probably a coincidence. If you are done with an ACGME accredideted residency, that's an allopathic residency, thus having an internship with the Caribbean MD, should qualify you for allopathic licensure. May be totally wrong here, but its just a guess. Or you could get the MD after the DO, and have it not be used for anything. Another option, which probably won't work, is figure out a way to transfer to an MD school after a DO. It is possible, but a very tough hoop. An MD from SGU is probably one of the best places to go in the Caribbean. I would bet its possible to do well from there. You will be trained, and yes most residency directors I would bet would say that Caribbeans are well trained, and work very hard. Whether that means they get the more competitive residency or not is a totally different story though. DO is great, if you do that, you are not going to the casino. I would place a very high bet you would get into a specialty. If you don't like osteopathic philosophy though, and can't live with it, and don't support it, don't do it. If that's all you can get though, and you want to be US, then do it, you got more options, and you are not in a Devry style school.

.

Lack of basic comprehension and common sense... yeah good luck with medicine ...

Originally Posted by Poisson

There is a reason maybe, why some people get an MD from the Caribbean, after the DO. Although extremely rare to begin with, I have seen at least 2 or 3 docs in gynecology that have done this.

Care to give us some names?

Originally Posted by twist25

hey guys, thanks for all you input... i have decided to let go of KCUMB and go to SGU. Given what all you guys said is true but i've lately been hearing a lot about this - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=862903 and this made me just pursue the MD route since I do want to an ACGME residency and it seems that starting 2014 DO students won't be able to attain allo residencies as well as fellowships.
Also, I really only care about ACGME residencies and when we compare SGU vs KCUMB (looking at just allo residencies and not extra choice of applying to AOA residencies), i think then SGU and KCUMB come neck to neck.

This make about as much sense as:

I'll give you 2 $1 bills for that $5 bill, that way you have two pieces of paper...OK! Here you go!



I'm honestly sad right now. Like legitimately upset. I feel like I just watched someone jump off a cliff after almost being talked off the ledge.

Originally Posted by costales

Care to give us some names?

http://www.boydobgyn.com/pdf/Boyd_CV.pdf

He went to med school twice for an MD? Now I've heard/seen it all.

Did he send for it by mail?

One of the Carib schools advertised MD degrees to already graduated DO's who 'studied' for 6 mos and paid $40K. Dunno if it's still available.

Originally Posted by tkim

One of the Carib schools advertised MD degrees to already graduated DO's who 'studied' for 6 mos and paid $40K. Dunno if it's still available.

$40,000 because the person doesnt feel secure in their degree?!?!?! For that price the person could invest in an SMP and hope for the best when applying to MD programs instead of "wasting" their time going to an "inferior" medical school. ::::rolls eyes::::

Originally Posted by tkim

One of the Carib schools advertised MD degrees to already graduated DO's who 'studied' for 6 mos and paid $40K. Dunno if it's still available.

I wonder if Boyd picked it up as part of a vacation or some such. The MD added nothing to his professional resume - he was already on faculty at Illinois, 1994 OB/GYN Faculty of the Year even..

Originally Posted by tkim

One of the Carib schools advertised MD degrees to already graduated DO's who 'studied' for 6 mos and paid $40K. Dunno if it's still available.

For $20k (plus fees), I can get you into SDN's School of Wizardly Magic, where after a few months of self study, you get a nice diploma that says you have been awarded a Doctor of Magic (MD) degree. It will have the same value, weight, and legal standing as one of those offshore buy-your-MD diploma mill schools ... but at least you will have an MD



*seriously, in some states, if you are not licensed as an MD, you cannot use MD as postnominal initials (this is mainly to keep dentists, chiropractors, naturopaths from going to online diploma mill, buying MDs, and using it on their advertisement/business cards (to mislead customers/patients) even though they are not formally practicing medicine but practicing dentistry, chiropractics, naturopathy, etc)

**in most states, they don't have this rule. However, you will be licensed as a DO (and thus have to abide by all rules/regulations in that state in regards to licensure of osteopathic physicians - whether through a combined board of medicine, or a separate board of osteopathic medicine). You can get 2 MDs from offshore schools .... but if your license to practice medicine is based on your DO, you will still have to follow the rules for DOs in that state.

***going offshore, you will forever face challenges when it comes time for hospital priviledges, state licensing, etc. Despite what you may believe, an offshore IMG will always be an FMG in the eyes of state boards and hospitals, and you will always have to produce your ECFMG as well as school diploma as well as your school transcripts/clinical rotation sites, etc. Some states are very particular about clinical rotation sites (as a med student) while in the US (and doing it at a wrong site may exclude you from state licensure). That's why FMGs/IMGs are always talking about "green book rotations. That's something you don't have to worry as a US DO student (although the quality of the DO clinical sites, that's another story, but it won't affect state licensure).

Ask tkim how fun it was to get credential at his current hospital. Now throw in "international medical school" in a foreign country, and another layer of administrative fun (ECFMG, FCVS) and it's a hoot

I have been avoiding this thread because I was waiting for it to finally die, but I decided to stop in and find the OP make the worst decision of his life.

Originally Posted by FrkyBgStok

I have been avoiding this thread because I was waiting for it to finally die, but I decided to stop in and find the OP make the worst decision of his life.

We all only really push ourselves here in an effort to support ourselves such that we can do the things we enjoy doing.

Ever been to hawaii? The nice thing about living in the tropics is that living costs can be next to nothing if all you need to do is make enough money to not starve while you go sit on the beach. I'm only trying to look on the bright side here after the OP fails to match and has $500k of debt. Luckily he will be in a perfect position to stay in the caribbean and be a beach bum

Ouch. I hope a FP residency in rural North Dakota is your dream match. At least it'll be ACGME.

But wait, it gets worse! Did a quick search of the OPs previous posts and apparently he was accepted to CCOM and NYCOM as well!! (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...php?p=12299565).

Triple