If DO degree's went MD would DO schools as a true alternative vanish?

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The topic has been butchered to death, but I haven't seen any consideration of the following. The only real difference at DO schools vs MD is that they teach OMT. I'm going to skip the philosophy and everything else and just single out OMT as the only real thing separating the two professions as many DO's don't actively use it.

The real question is, if DO schools were to begin handing out MD degree's, then in truth would DO schools really exist anymore. For example there are already MD programs that follow a holistic approach. Differentiating schools as Medical School's and Osteopathic Medical School's means nothing to anyone (except pre-meds who might become confused). Really, would the Osteopathic school system die if MD replaced the DO initials? Also many people don't apply DO because of the initials, this roadblock may cause Allopathic interested students to apply DO because they feel that "hey MD is MD" which it really is.

My belief is that this would send GPA requirements up to be virtually equal to Allopathic programs (due to even greater competitiveness) as the nature of DO programs often seek students who come from non-traditional backgrounds and likes to see what else they bring to the table (other than grades; though I am not arguing against the importance of good grades to be accepted DO, just pointing out that they are usually a tad less important than when applying to Allopathic programs).

I think a lot of the issue with the MD, DO is because of television. Historically TV has educated the general public on a Doctor's title being MD (Medical Doctor). The general public does not understand the lack of difference between MD and DO; truth be told no one ask in a hospital "if you're a Medical Doctor"; they just ask, "are you a Doctor". I don't think the DO should go away or even be modified to MD, DO. It would probably serve no purpose. Just look at DDS and DMD; it just does more to confuse people than anything else. It seems that DO is becoming more and more of an accepted profession and the only ones that have an issue with it are Pre-Med's and Med students themselves.

What are you're thoughts. Would changing DO to MD at Osteopathic schools; literally kill off DO programs and simply cause them to become the same as Allopathic schools which would eliminate DO as an alternative path to Medicine.

Why on earth is this such a hot topic this week?

Haters gonna hate.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

Why on earth is this such a hot topic this week?

No kidding.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

Why on earth is this such a hot topic this week?

Because its "National Osteopathic Medicine Week"...according to the AOA that is... everyone knows that! duhhh!

Originally Posted by playaodamonth

Because its "National Osteopathic Medicine Week"...according to the AOA that is... everyone knows that! duhhh!

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...cine-week.aspx

Haha, it is.

Who the hell gives a damn? Seriously?

You guys gotta start getting that chip off your shoulder.

I can care less what letters are behind my name.

is this a holiday- where we get time off?

Originally Posted by se20001984

is this a holiday- where we get time off?

nope..but you do get a free 5-minute OMT session! contact your local DO near you for more information.

Originally Posted by Eilat87

I can care less what letters are behind my name.

I believe you mean you couldn't care less.

Originally Posted by tabibintraining

I believe you mean you couldn't care less.

Thanks for that.

So I heard a little voice in my head before I made this thread, and the little voice said don't make another DO/MD thread; and I said to the little voice "hey you; shut up"; and the little voice became quiet; well at-least it was until people began responding and now the little voice won't stop laughing and it has a really mean little laugh. True story :-( !


Note: Just to those reading this and contemplating making a thread that involves the word DO and MD in a comparative sense; don't, just don't. It's been 13 days since my last cry and today I start all over.

Originally Posted by beBrave

Note: Just to those reading this and contemplating making a thread that involves the word DO and MD in a comparative sense; don't, just don't.

Can we sticky this? Lol

Originally Posted by Ost3oclast

Can we sticky this? Lol

Somebody else said it in one of the half-dozen other threads floating around. Ultramerge, lock and sticky the few decent thoughts. Or, we could just keep cracking open fresh threads and think that if we just went round and round one more time, we would finally resolve this debate, once and for all.

Originally Posted by Pons Asinorum

Somebody else said it in one of the half-dozen other threads floating around. Ultramerge, lock and sticky the few decent thoughts. Or, we could just keep cracking open fresh threads and think that if we just went round and round one more time, we would finally resolve this debate, once and for all.

Unfortunately, the only thing I see fixing this whole MD/DO thread thing is to create a separate sub forum where the trolls can go and post STRICTLY MD vs DO threads. Anybody with genuine questions can get referred there. At least this way we could get that filth out of the pre-med/med forums.

Originally Posted by Eilat87

Who the hell gives a damn? Seriously?

You guys gotta start getting that chip off your shoulder.

I can care less what letters are behind my name.

I think many people don't care because of some chip on their shoulder but just because they don't want to deal with explaining what a DO is or the discrimination of some institutions toward the degree. If MD and DO were truly treated equally, I don't see why anyone would care (like DMD vs DDS).

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

I think many people don't care because of some chip on their shoulder but just because they don't want to deal with explaining what a DO is or the discrimination of some institutions toward the degree. If MD and DO were truly treated equally, I don't see why anyone would care (like DMD vs DDS).

This only gets said by pre meds. The students, and beyond say it isn't an issue.....

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Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

I think many people don't care because of some chip on their shoulder but just because they don't want to deal with explaining what a DO is or the discrimination of some institutions toward the degree. If MD and DO were truly treated equally, I don't see why anyone would care (like DMD vs DDS).

More reason to work hard and prove others wrong.

This thread is like that episode of family guy where they just keep puking. Just when you think it's over...it's not!

Originally Posted by beBrave

This thread is like that episode of family guy where they just keep puking. Just when you think it's over...it's not!

Ugh that episode was gross...

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

This only gets said by pre meds. The students, and beyond say it isn't an issue.....

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The only time I've really found myself explaining what a DO is occurs when I suggest OMM to a patient. Most of them haven't heard of it so I quickly explain I have extra musculoskeletal training and would like to try and augment our treatment plan.

I've never been challenged. Those that ask "what is a DO?" truly are curious and not malignant.

Originally Posted by Ost3oclast

Ugh that episode was gross...

Yeah, but guess what; by the end of that episode they learned something and they never did it again.

I like to compare it to Protestants and Catholics---same Christian faith. DOs and MDs--physicians bound by Hippocratic Oath. DOs are the protestants that broke off from the allopathics and then realized a couple of decades later that they are a part of the same team and give another service, OMT, to mankind. Although, I think some in the AOA leadership still live back in the late 1800s/early 1900s.

Last controversial thought: Since we'll be having a unified residency accreditation for MDs and DOs come 2015, I am ready for a unified Step 1, 2, and Step 3.....(many osteopaths and osteopath students gasp!!!!!!!). NBME is responsible for the main part that is responsible for MDs and DOs (basically USMLE). NBOME writes the OMT part (1 question block) required for DOs with it being optional for MDs. Both sides and residency programs happy b/c we all have the same testing standard and DOs get to preserve their profession.

Addition to last post: I am an OMS II.

Originally Posted by eagle03

I like to compare it to Protestants and Catholics---same Christian faith. DOs and MDs--physicians bound by Hippocratic Oath. DOs are the protestants that broke off from the allopathics and then realized a couple of decades later that they are a part of the same team and give another service, OMT, to mankind. Although, I think some in the AOA leadership still live back in the late 1800s/early 1900s.

Last controversial thought: Since we'll be having a unified residency accreditation for MDs and DOs come 2015, I am ready for a unified Step 1, 2, and Step 3.....(many osteopaths and osteopath students gasp!!!!!!!). NBME is responsible for the main part that is responsible for MDs and DOs (basically USMLE). NBOME writes the OMT part (1 question block) required for DOs with it being optional for MDs. Both sides and residency programs happy b/c we all have the same testing standard and DOs get to preserve their profession.

Sigh... Translation: While we may serve the same God, my God is a bit more right than yours.

Now I know how Noah felt!

Originally Posted by beBrave

Sigh... Translation: While we may serve the same God, my God is a bit more right than yours.

Now I know how Noah felt!

I'd rather not be compared to catholics..... How about we reverse it since catholics go through a whole bunch of empty motions that don't accomplish anything as a part of their ritual

OK people, no stick weeners on this thread!!

The last thread on degree change was recently closed by a moderator - after she/he posted a great post by the way on state law and degree designation - yes thats right over stick jangles. So no stick weeners!! ..... seriously .... ok yes I know its funny ... but no stick privates!!

Ah ... whats that... you think now that I wrote that it would be humorous to make a stick weener? Or maybe you're the creative genius who wants to delight the masses with another part that has anything to do with copulation, fornication, sexy-time stimulation or any other ation.... Don't do it!!

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

I'd rather not be compared to catholics..... How about we reverse it since catholics go through a whole bunch of empty motions that don't accomplish anything as a part of their ritual

Brothers and sisters, why can't we all just....You know what, I'm not gonna say it. It's things like this why peace in the middle east just can't happen; at-least not in our lifetime.

You guys need to watch scrubs and if you've already watched it, then watch it again. Look at Cox and Kelso; they are like night and day; Good Vs Evil; Kain and Lynch (ok maybe not this one); point is they are both good Doctors and they need each other for balance. Cox may mean well but he gets carried away at times and the same goes for Kelso but when things get tough, at their core they are really the same; they may have different views but each has a bit of the others characteristics despite how little they want to admit it.

Like Turk, learn to love and accept thy neighbor as if thou were walking in their shoes. - 2 Corinthians 5 17 - True story!

Originally Posted by beBrave

Brothers and sisters, why can't we all just....You know what, I'm not gonna say it. It's things like this why peace in the middle east just can't happen; at-least not in our lifetime.

You guys need to watch scrubs and if you've already watched it, then watch it again. Look at Cox and Kelso; they are like night and day; Good Vs Evil; Kain and Lynch (ok maybe not this one); point is they are both good Doctors and they need each other for balance. Cox may mean well but he gets carried away at times and the same goes for Kelso but when things get tough, at their core they are really the same; they may have different views but each has a bit of the others characteristics despite how little they want to admit it.

Like Turk, learn to love and accept thy neighbor as if thou were walking in their shoes. - 2 Corinthians 5 17 - True story!

hear, hear

Let's not be hatin ya'll

yeah whats with these threads poppin up this week?

I don't get the point of them because nothings going to change lol, at least not anytime soon where its going to impact the majority of people reading the thread. Unless there's some secret news about pending changes that I'm clueless about. I really don't think it matters what letters you have behind you, there's good and bad MD students just as there are good and bad DO students. If you're gunning for an insanely competitive residency at a huge program there's usually less hoops for US MDs, but the majority of med students aren't trying to go that route. Pick a school that has a good reputation, good rotations, and that you'd be happy at. for example if you love snowboarding, going to an MD school in Alabama is probably going to make you miserable. just my two cents.

Originally Posted by Eilat87

Who the hell gives a damn? Seriously?

You guys gotta start getting that chip off your shoulder.

I can care less what letters are behind my name.

As devil's advocate, if you don't care then why not call yourself an MD? Does having those two letters after your name render your hands incapable of rendering osteopathic manipulative therapy?

The average layperson still has either no idea what a DO is or carries the mistaken assumption that DOs are automatically inferior physicians. At what point will DOs acknowledge that the AOA has utterly failed in its "awareness campaigns" and that "separate but equal" doesn't really exist?

Originally Posted by wanna_be_do

As devil's advocate, if you don't care then why not call yourself an MD? Does having those two letters after your name render your hands incapable of rendering osteopathic manipulative therapy?

The average layperson still has either no idea what a DO is or carries the mistaken assumption that DOs are automatically inferior physicians. At what point will DOs acknowledge that the AOA has utterly failed in its "awareness campaigns" and that "separate but equal" doesn't really exist?

As a NYCOM graduate, how has your experience been in the "real world" in NYC as an Osteopathic physician?

Originally Posted by wanna_be_do

As devil's advocate, if you don't care then why not call yourself an MD? Does having those two letters after your name render your hands incapable of rendering osteopathic manipulative therapy?

The average layperson still has either no idea what a DO is or carries the mistaken assumption that DOs are automatically inferior physicians. At what point will DOs acknowledge that the AOA has utterly failed in its "awareness campaigns" and that "separate but equal" doesn't really exist?

Amen to that (no reference to the earlier religion squabble)

For now we should go MDO - include the M for medical training. To my knowledge this degree designation is not in use for any other profession so it would likely be less complex than trying to add on an the MD to the DO separately as MD, DO.

Originally Posted by beBrave

Brothers and sisters, why can't we all just....You know what, I'm not gonna say it. It's things like this why peace in the middle east just can't happen; at-least not in our lifetime.

You guys need to watch scrubs and if you've already watched it, then watch it again. Look at Cox and Kelso; they are like night and day; Good Vs Evil; Kain and Lynch (ok maybe not this one); point is they are both good Doctors and they need each other for balance. Cox may mean well but he gets carried away at times and the same goes for Kelso but when things get tough, at their core they are really the same; they may have different views but each has a bit of the others characteristics despite how little they want to admit it.

Like Turk, learn to love and accept thy neighbor as if thou were walking in their shoes. - 2 Corinthians 5 17 - True story!

Did... did you just scrubs reference?

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Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

Did... did you just scrubs reference?

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Future DO/MD relations after the ACGME merger...

One can hope...

Originally Posted by Osteotastic

Amen to that (no reference to the earlier religion squabble)

For now we should go MDO - include the M for medical training. To my knowledge this degree designation is not in use for any other profession so it would likely be less complex than trying to add on an the MD to the DO separately as MD, DO.

Not an MDO fan....too many letters...

There are 4 year MD,DO/MPH and MD,DO/MBA programs, why not a 4-year MD/DO (DO being Diplomat of Osteopathy).

Ideal world:
-All schools accredited under LCME standards. COCA becomes a subset of LCME and continues regulating the OMM curriculum.
-USMLE is the one and only comprehensive board exam.
-All residencies accredited by ACGME
-DO schools continue to require its students take OMM as part of its curriculum (minus the ridiculous OMTs like cranial), and take a comprehensive OMM exam sometime during the 4 years (not COMLEX, just an OMM written and practical). Upon graduation, these students receive the MD/DO.
-MD schools may offer OMM as part of their curriculum, if they so wish to do so, allowing MD students to gain the DO as well.
-Any current allopath attending can take a 200 hour OMM course and exam to receive the DO and charge for OMM.
-Not sure how current DO attendings who have not taken the USMLE or gone to an ACGME residency be awarded the MD...and being grandfathered in doesn't seem fair to the rest...

Definitely will never happen in the real world. And I'm sure all of these suggestions have major flaws and I'll probably be ripped on for it. Just spit-balling that's all.

Originally Posted by Osteotastic

Amen to that (no reference to the earlier religion squabble)

For now we should go MDO - include the M for medical training. To my knowledge this degree designation is not in use for any other profession so it would likely be less complex than trying to add on an the MD to the DO separately as MD, DO.

It baffles me that you can't see this is for nothing other than your own perception.

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Originally Posted by playaodamonth

Not an MDO fan....too many letters...

There are 4 year MD,DO/MPH and MD,DO/MBA programs, why not a 4-year MD/DO (DO being Diplomat of Osteopathy).

Ideal world:
-All schools accredited under LCME standards. COCA becomes a subset of LCME and continues regulating the OMM curriculum.
-USMLE is the one and only comprehensive board exam.
-All residencies accredited by ACGME
-DO schools continue to require its students take OMM as part of its curriculum (minus the ridiculous OMTs like cranial), and take a comprehensive OMM exam sometime during the 4 years (not COMLEX, just an OMM written and practical). Upon graduation, these students receive the MD/DO.
-MD schools may offer OMM as part of their curriculum, if they so wish to do so, allowing MD students to gain the DO as well.
-Any current allopath attending can take a 200 hour OMM course and exam to receive the DO and charge for OMM.
-Not sure how current DO attendings who have not taken the USMLE or gone to an ACGME residency be awarded the MD...and being grandfathered in doesn't seem fair to the rest...

Definitely will never happen in the real world. And I'm sure all of these suggestions have major flaws and I'll probably be ripped on for it. Just spit-balling that's all.

AMAZING!!

lets get the paper work going for this

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

It baffles me that you can't see this is for nothing other than your own perception.

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Ha Ha : )

Thank you Specter, I appreciate you giving your own perception of my perception.

I did not originate this idea however : )

Originally Posted by Ost3oclast

Unfortunately, the only thing I see fixing this whole MD/DO thread thing is to create a separate sub forum where the trolls can go and post STRICTLY MD vs DO threads. Anybody with genuine questions can get referred there. At least this way we could get that filth out of the pre-med/med forums.

Ummm that is an amazing idea. I mean the way it is now, one thread gets closed and another one with the same exact topic (whether from the OP or from where the last thread left off) starts up.

Originally Posted by se20001984

AMAZING!!

lets get the paper work going for this

lol'd hard. well done.

Originally Posted by LovelyBRass

Ummm that is an amazing idea. I mean the way it is now, one thread gets closed and another one with the same exact topic (whether from the OP or from where the last thread left off) starts up.

This is the song that goes on forever
Cause it never, ever ends
Come on everybody
We're going to sing it again
(Repeat)

Originally Posted by beBrave

This is the song that goes on forever
Cause it never, ever ends
Come on everybody
We're going to sing it again
(Repeat)

I've never heard that version. I thought the Lamb Chop version was the only one

....

Originally Posted by Osteotastic

Ha Ha : )

Thank you Specter, I appreciate you giving your own perception of my perception.

I did not originate this idea however : )

That wasn't my point. I was just saying that nothing tangible results from adding an "M" to the title other than the wearer's ability to say he or she now has an "M". It is a self-image fix no matter how often it gets dressed up as something else (clarity to the patients, or whatever).

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

That wasn't my point. I was just saying that nothing tangible results from adding an "M" to the title other than the wearer's ability to say he or she now has an "M". It is a self-image fix no matter how often it gets dressed up as something else (clarity to the patients, or whatever).

Agreed.

Stay on topic folks.


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=988630

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Originally Posted by Osteotastic

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dis