"Help me decide" mega thread

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There is a stickied thread for this....and you shouldn't list yourself as a "psychologist" if you are not licensed as one.

Originally Posted by elpsyd

I am deciding between Roosevelt PsyD in Chicago and La Salle PsyD in Philly. Thoughts? I need all the advice I can get! HELP

I realize some of the posts here are not very helpful for those asking about professional schools--but ultimately this is what you're deciding between and that's what works for you. My suggestion with these two schools--take a look at their internship outcomes, attrition, and training curriculum. The one with the most promising outcomes interms of APA accredited internships, less attrition, and a training curriculum you are most comfortable with---that's the one I would go for. Also, take the cost of the program into account, as well as any funding you may (but probably will not) receive. Just from glancing at the outcomes, roosevelt looks more promising--it also mentions something about offering graduate assistantships (which is also good in comparison to la salle).

Here are the outcomes for Roosevelt: http://www.roosevelt.edu/CAS/Program...editation.aspx

Here are the outcomes for La Salle:
http://www.lasalle.edu/grad/content/...psyd_stats.pdf

Ultimately this is your decision. Which program YOU feel most comfortable going to. You're going to have to go through 5+ years and if I, or anyone gives you a definite answer and you're not happy with the choice, you WILL blame us. On the other hand, if you make the choice yourself, you will be more likely to follow through with it, even during the tough times.

Good luck

Moving to the help me decide mega thread...

Originally Posted by elpsyd

Wow you're incredibly helpful thank you.

LaSalle isn't a professional school. I have great respect for it actually, having presented next to LaSalle students at conferences.

Roosevelt isn't a professional school either--but in elpsyd's earlier posts, he was deciding between two professional schools, so maybe that's what g0708 was referring to .

Originally Posted by CatsFan

Roosevelt isn't a professional school either--but in elpsyd's earlier posts, he was deciding between two professional schools, so maybe that's what g0708 was referring to .

PsyD as a DEGREE is considered a professional degree. I was under the impression (and correct me if I'm wrong) that PhD's are the highest level of an "academic degree"--with the doctorate actually being the PHILOSOPHY of something (eg. PhD in Psychology, Pharmacology, etc) while a doctorates in something (like MD, PsyD, PharmD, JD) were considered professional degrees--degrees that prepare you for a career that typically requires a license to practice the profession stated by the degree specifically. I think this distinction has to do with the amount of research and theory required vs. actual practice and experience. Like say a PharmD, will likely (not always) work in a pharmacy post graduation, whereas someone with a PhD in pharmacology is more likely to end up doing research and testing of pharmaceuticals.

My initial statement was talking about the thread as a whole and it's feelings towards professional schools (schools that ONLY provide professional degrees) and professional degrees as a whole. You should know that a school like LaSalle, only has 3 doctoral programs (nursing, theology, and clinical psyd), ALL of which are professional degrees. This doesn't mean one shouldn't respect it--just how it is.

Sorry for the long explanation.

I see, I think the confusion was in "professional degree" vs. "professional school." When people on here talk about professional schools, I believe they're usually referring specifically to free-standing professional schools which are usually for-profit, not Psy.D.'s in general.

Originally Posted by CatsFan

I see, I think the confusion was in "professional degree" vs. "professional school." When people on here talk about professional schools, I believe they're usually referring specifically to free-standing professional schools which are usually for-profit, not Psy.D.'s in general.

Essentially this, at least on this forum. A huge distinction often isn't made here between the Psy.D. and the Ph.D., nor is one made in most/all realms of legislation, practice, hiring, etc. The one place where I know I've seen the Psy.D./Ph.D. issue explicitly addressed is for internship (i.e., "we only accept Ph.D. applicants").

I was accepted to Roosevelt PsyD in Chicago and just found out I go into Yeshiva PsyD in NY off of the waitlist. I am now completely torn and have until Monday to decide.

Roosevelt is less expensive, and I am from Chicago so my family is here for support, but part of me is excited about the opportunity to live in NY and I also wonder if Yeshiva's program is more established and if the reputation is significanlty better. Please Help!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Sorry, elpsyd. I think you're getting a lot of these kinds of replies because this forum has been inundated with lots of threads asking "should I go to X program or Y program?" Many times, the programs in question are large, free-standing professional schools (as is the case with your thread). There are, quite frankly, problems with the models of these programs, at least in the mind of many of us psych students, even some of those who attend these schools.

For your case, I would look up a few things about each of these programs to inform your decision.

1. What is the cohort size? If the cohorts are large, you won't get any individualized attention from profs; working one-on-one with them will be pretty much an impossibility. I believe I have seen that the Chicago school admits up to 100 students each year. This is gigantic...more students than the market can take.

2. What are the rates of placing students in APA accredited internships? Every school is required to list this somewhere on their website. Make sure you look at the APA/CPA accredited rates, because anything less than an APA accredited spot will restrict your career. If you have questions about what these rates mean, try checking out the occupy the imbalance thread.

3. How much is it going to cost to get this degree? The median psychologist's salary is 65K. A good rule of thumb for academic debt is not to take out more in loans than you can make in your first job. Are you likely to take out more than 65K in loans to go to these schools?

Long time reader of this forum but I have never posted...

I have no desire to get involved in the professional PsyD/PhD debate but I have to correct one of the statements above. I am finishing up my first year the The Chicago School (PsyD, Generalist Tract) and in my experience, number one is simply not true. I regularly interact with core faculty. In fact, I am working on two research projects and I meet with the faculty supervisors of these projects on a regular basis (the ultimate plan for both of these is publication- also possible in a PsyD). Additionally, my professional development seminar group (8 people total, I have never had a class greater than 14 people) just went out to lunch with our professor (PhD) yesterday to celebrate the end of our time together (we meet 2x/month for this seminar our entire first year). It was a wonderful experience to discuss his research and long career with the VA and to chat outside of school.

My point is that any program PhD or PsyD is what you make of it. You might have to work a little harder in a larger program but the opportunities are certainly there. I agree that the cost is an issue. I am lucky because my husband works and we are able to live of his salary so I take out loans for tuition alone. I am also working (very) part time which helps offset some of the cost.

If you are one of the people who was accepted into a fully funded PhD and has never had to take out a student loan then good for you. Congrats! That is wonderful! Despise having competitive stats, experience, and wonderful req's I was not fortunate enough to be afforded one of those opportunities. This may be due to the fact that I was severely geographically restricted (applied only to Chicago area schools) because of previously mentioned husband who has a great job that he loves. In hindsight I believe things worked out for the best. I greatly enjoy my program and the flexibility it gives me to pursue my research interests as well as the extensive clinical training it provides. I have also taken advantage of some of the other unique opportunities. For example, I will spending most of May in Nepal on a study abroad trip where my colleagues and I will be presenting at St. Xavier's College in Kathmandu and collecting data as part of a needs assessment for future endeavors.

I have heard that TCS will be taking fewer students next year due to so many prac sites closing down...

Originally Posted by HCLNJ

I was accepted to Roosevelt PsyD in Chicago and just found out I go into Yeshiva PsyD in NY off of the waitlist. I am now completely torn and have until Monday to decide.

Roosevelt is less expensive, and I am from Chicago so my family is here for support, but part of me is excited about the opportunity to live in NY and I also wonder if Yeshiva's program is more established and if the reputation is significanlty better. Please Help!

Thanks!

Well, to me the first question that comes to mind is cost of living. Chicago is not cheap (I was born and raised there), but it's not NEAR as expensive as NY can be. Having your family close is going to be a money saver as well (travel expenses will be less). I would say, check out pricing for apts in both areas. It also looks like Roosevelt has had better luck in terms of their students obtaining APA accredited paid internships when compared to Yeshiva. And it also seems to offer assistantships and scholarships (don't know if you already know whether you've obtained one or the other...).

And ultimately, where did you feel most comfortable when you interviewed?

My current goals are as follows: M.S. in Clinical Psych, then PsyD in Clinical Psych with concentration in psychodynamic psychotherapy. The opposition I have been facing really is from this website lol. I keep hearing "psychology is a dying field" , "the doctorate is not worth it", "it's better to be a LMHC" , etc. My question is why? I liked the PsyD program because it seems to be 80% clinical 20% research (assumption from reading about it). But the only person I have spoken with that recommends me getting a doctorate is my neuro prof. My passion is psychotherapy. I am also interested in research. I hear as well that there's very little funding for PsyD but I see on my school's website (www.nova.edu) that there IS indeed funding for it.

Originally Posted by jonq1987

My current goals are as follows: M.S. in Clinical Psych, then PsyD in Clinical Psych with concentration in psychodynamic psychotherapy. The opposition I have been facing really is from this website lol. I keep hearing "psychology is a dying field" , "the doctorate is not worth it", "it's better to be a LMHC" , etc. My question is why? I liked the PsyD program because it seems to be 80% clinical 20% research (assumption from reading about it). But the only person I have spoken with that recommends me getting a doctorate is my neuro prof. My passion is psychotherapy. I am also interested in research. I hear as well that there's very little funding for PsyD but I see on my school's website (www.nova.edu) that there IS indeed funding for it.

How do/can you know psychotherapy is your "passion" if you don't have a graduate degree already? Sure, there's some undergrad/BA-level clinical experience that can kind oi sort of approximate that (co-facilitating groups, for example), but you can't/shouldn't get "real" exposure to conducting psychotherapy before grad school.

I assume from your post that the school you are considering is Nova? I'd highly suggest searching the forum for specific posts on Nova, as there are a lot of good posts from current students. Funding is *very* limited there.

There is indeed funding for some Psy.D. programs; problem is, fully-funded Psy.D. programs (i.e., tuition remission + stipend) are the exception rather than the rule. This doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the training, of course, but when the typical price tag for a degree seems to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-150k for tuition alone, partial aid isn't going to do a whole lot to help you out. This is particularly apparent when you consider that there are many programs which do offer full funding; they're just tougher to get into.

If ALL you want to do is therapy, then yes, a master's makes more sense. Psychodynamic training is a bit unique, though, in that it requires a substantial time (and monetary) investment to receive "golden standard" competency. I believe many of the post-grad psychodynamic training institutes limit admission to psychologists and physicians/psychiatrists, so a doctorate might indeed be required (although I could be wrong). However, these institutes are expensive; the numbers I've seen thrown around here suggest that they take somewhere around 3-5 years to complete, during which time you're paying for multiple weekly supervision and therapy sessions (although there are posters here who've looked into the training more thoroughly than me, so I welcome their corrections/further input). Tacking that expense on top of a hefty student loan bill from grad school just seems like a financial death sentence.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

There is indeed funding for some Psy.D. programs; problem is, fully-funded Psy.D. programs (i.e., tuition remission + stipend) are the exception rather than the rule. This doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the training, of course, but when the typical price tag for a degree seems to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-150k for tuition alone, partial aid isn't going to do a whole lot to help you out. This is particularly apparent when you consider that there are many programs which do offer full funding; they're just tougher to get into.

If ALL you want to do is therapy, then yes, a master's makes more sense. Psychodynamic training is a bit unique, though, in that it requires a substantial time (and monetary) investment to receive "golden standard" competency. I believe many of the post-grad psychodynamic training institutes limit admission to psychologists and physicians/psychiatrists, so a doctorate might indeed be required. However, these institutes are expensive; the numbers I've seen thrown around here suggest that they take somewhere around 3-5 years to complete, during which time you're paying for multiple weekly supervision and therapy sessions (although there are posters here who've looked into the training more thoroughly than me, so I welcome their corrections/further input). Tacking that expense on top of a hefty student loan bill from grad school just seems like a financial death sentence.

This. I've been looking at the funding offered by university-based PsyD programs recently, and only a very, very small handful actually offer full funding (Baylor, Rutgers, Virginia Consortium. Indiana U-Pennsylvania). This degree, IMO, isn't worth anything above, say, $60k-70k in debt, unless you have some super special bullet-proof loan repayment plan. I'd look at the programs listed above, plus more balanced clinically focused PhD programs.

However, if you really just want to do psychodynamic therapy, a masters (funded and/or with public university in-state tuition) plus post-masters training might fit.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

There is indeed funding for some Psy.D. programs; problem is, fully-funded Psy.D. programs (i.e., tuition remission + stipend) are the exception rather than the rule. This doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the training, of course, but when the typical price tag for a degree seems to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-150k for tuition alone, partial aid isn't going to do a whole lot to help you out. This is particularly apparent when you consider that there are many programs which do offer full funding; they're just tougher to get into.

If ALL you want to do is therapy, then yes, a master's makes more sense. Psychodynamic training is a bit unique, though, in that it requires a substantial time (and monetary) investment to receive "golden standard" competency. I believe many of the post-grad psychodynamic training institutes limit admission to psychologists and physicians/psychiatrists, so a doctorate might indeed be required (although I could be wrong). However, these institutes are expensive; the numbers I've seen thrown around here suggest that they take somewhere around 3-5 years to complete, during which time you're paying for multiple weekly supervision and therapy sessions (although there are posters here who've looked into the training more thoroughly than me, so I welcome their corrections/further input). Tacking that expense on top of a hefty student loan bill from grad school just seems like a financial death sentence.

What if on top of therapy I hope to teach on the side too? Should I still only do masters?

Originally Posted by jonq1987

What if on top of therapy I hope to teach on the side too? Should I still only do masters?

Depends on where you'd like to teach. I know my university hired a small number of masters-level instructors, but in general, a doctorate degree is going to give you many more teaching options. But if you have a specific college or type of college in mind, check out the website(s) and see what the reqs would be.

Also recognize, though, that (warranted or not), there's still a fairly significant bias against the Psy.D. at most universities. Thus, if a tenure-track-type position is your end goal, a Ph.D. would be a better bet. But if you're just wanting to adjunct at a local college, a Psy.D. could get you there.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

Depends on where you'd like to teach. I know my university hired a small number of masters-level instructors, but in general, a doctorate degree is going to give you many more teaching options. But if you have a specific college or type of college in mind, check out the website(s) and see what the reqs would be.

Also recognize, though, that (warranted or not), there's still a fairly significant bias against the Psy.D. at most universities. Thus, if a tenure-track-type position is your end goal, a Ph.D. would be a better bet. But if you're just wanting to adjunct at a local college, a Psy.D. could get you there.

IMO, wanting to adjunct occasionally doesn't justify the time (and money, if unfunded) cost of getting a PsyD. The pay is very low, the work isn't always predictable, and like AA said, there's a strong preference (justified or not) for PhD over PsyDs, even with adjuncting. So, if this would be your main reason for going the doctoral route, just go for a fully funded, more balanced/clinically-focused PhD, IMO.

Originally Posted by futureapppsy2

IMO, wanting to adjunct occasionally doesn't justify the time (and money, if unfunded) cost of getting a PsyD. The pay is very low, the work isn't always predictable, and like AA said, there's a strong preference (justified or not) for PhD over PsyDs, even with adjuncting. So, if this would be your main reason for going the doctoral route, just go for a fully funded, more balanced/clinically-focused PhD, IMO.

Adjuncting definitely isn't worth attending an unfunded program. It's more an option if someone really enjoys teaching, but doesn't want a full-on academic position. It's certainly not going to make you rich (the numbers at my university are ~$3k/course), and really is more about scratching the occasional teaching "itch" while also making a few extra bucks on the side.

It's also much more viable if you've taught the class, or something similar, in the past. If you're having to prep from scratch, it'd be rough to do on top of a full-time job elsewhere.

Seems like you have done your homework with stats and numbers of Universities here. One more thing to consider is retention rate as well as your interest match, these things will decide how well you perform in a program because your performance does matter in your internship chances (Its better to start thinking in those terms from the very beginning). Also consider

As far as life outside program is concerned, I believe that you may choose any place and if you make good friends there, you will enjoy your stay. Other things in city do matter but you will find enough happenings in any city and honestly, you won't have much time.

As for rankings, all 3 Universities have almost similar rankings, so it won't really matter.

P.S.: I am going to Wright state

Please post in the "help me decide" mega thread. Good luck with your upcoming decisions!

I agree as well, choose Roosevelt.

I'd go to Roosevelt. It seems like that's where your heart is and somewhere that would give you a short time frame would only agonize you in the long run.

I guess its time i throw my hat into this and ask for advice rather than make my own thread:

I just recently received an invitation to SPU's interviews for their clin psych phd program. Out of seven schools i applied to, it is so far the only one to reach out to me. The other schools i applied to include U of Oregon, Minnesota, Washington, Wisconsin-Madison, Florida, and Washington State (WSU). Oregon i think is too late for as i believe their interviews already took place.

The others are up in the air, but given my academic "stats" i can't say its implausible to believe SPU might be my only invite this round. The others are also slightly higher in their average GPA and GRE admissions compared to SPU. Their averages range from the 3.7s to the 3.8s roughly, and their GREs are generally in the 1300-1400s (old scores).

My GPA was 3.75, GRE roughly translates to a 1250 by old scores, kind of mediocre. My research experience is also, probably, less competitive to those who have been an RA for the last year. I have experience being an RA for about half a year in college, and i conducted my own research (under the supervision of a professor) with several peers in a senior level animal lab class -- but otherwise nothing significant.

The kicker is i'm actually from SPU already. I just graduated last spring. I liked the faculty the campus and the learning environments (smaller) so much that i investigated their phd program and applied.

SPU was not my first / top choice for a school, but obviously im interested enough in it that i applied. Im not concerned with any potential "religious bent" in my education there, as there was no significant interruption of religion in any of the 4 years i spent at SPU as an undergrad. A few things concern me and this forum by leaps and bounds has been more helpful to me in understanding the phd processes and intricacies than any other source, so im hoping to find some solid input once more:

My B.A. is from SPU -- will it look odd if my PhD is also from SPU?

Given my grades and scores, i may not get invited anywhere else, and if i pass SPU up this round, is it worth the risk of reaching higher for a harder school even if i get into nowhere next year as well? (basically a choice: SPU starting this next year or no school for the next 2 years).

Granted, i have almost two weeks before the actual interviews and more weeks after that before even potentially being offered a place in the program -- i may be counting my chickens too early, and i have no idea if anywhere else will invite me elsewhere. I guess i just needed a soundboard for my thoughts and concerns; being alone with these questions and worries is maddening.

Any and all input welcome, thank you

Originally Posted by pretzels

I guess its time i throw my hat into this and ask for advice rather than make my own thread:

I just recently received an invitation to SPU's interviews for their clin psych phd program. Out of seven schools i applied to, it is so far the only one to reach out to me. The other schools i applied to include U of Oregon, Minnesota, Washington, Wisconsin-Madison, Florida, and Washington State (WSU). Oregon i think is too late for as i believe their interviews already took place.

The others are up in the air, but given my academic "stats" i can't say its implausible to believe SPU might be my only invite this round. The others are also slightly higher in their average GPA and GRE admissions compared to SPU. Their averages range from the 3.7s to the 3.8s roughly, and their GREs are generally in the 1300-1400s (old scores).

My GPA was 3.75, GRE roughly translates to a 1250 by old scores, kind of mediocre. My research experience is also, probably, less competitive to those who have been an RA for the last year. I have experience being an RA for about half a year in college, and i conducted my own research (under the supervision of a professor) with several peers in a senior level animal lab class -- but otherwise nothing significant.

The kicker is i'm actually from SPU already. I just graduated last spring. I liked the faculty the campus and the learning environments (smaller) so much that i investigated their phd program and applied.

SPU was not my first / top choice for a school, but obviously im interested enough in it that i applied. Im not concerned with any potential "religious bent" in my education there, as there was no significant interruption of religion in any of the 4 years i spent at SPU as an undergrad. A few things concern me and this forum by leaps and bounds has been more helpful to me in understanding the phd processes and intricacies than any other source, so im hoping to find some solid input once more:

My B.A. is from SPU -- will it look odd if my PhD is also from SPU?

Given my grades and scores, i may not get invited anywhere else, and if i pass SPU up this round, is it worth the risk of reaching higher for a harder school even if i get into nowhere next year as well? (basically a choice: SPU starting this next year or no school for the next 2 years).

Granted, i have almost two weeks before the actual interviews and more weeks after that before even potentially being offered a place in the program -- i may be counting my chickens too early, and i have no idea if anywhere else will invite me elsewhere. I guess i just needed a soundboard for my thoughts and concerns; being alone with these questions and worries is maddening.

Any and all input welcome, thank you

I can't really weigh into whether it will look weird getting your PhD from your undergrad institution. I think it's relatively uncommon for undergrad institutions to want their students to pursue a PhD at their school, but that's clearly not the case in your situation. The one thing I will say about SPU is that their funding is almost non-existent. I interviewed there last year (and was accepted), but I just couldn't get past the amount of debt that their students typically incur. Their tuition is around $30,000 a year with little to no funding opportunities (you might get a RA/TA position for a couple of years, but it doesn't come with a tuition waiver so you're still taking out loans). So, taking only the funding situation into account, I would personally opt to take a full-time RA job for a couple of years and not accept a spot at SPU. That's obviously my personal opinion and you know what's best for you, but the amount of debt that you would incur at this school (again, in my opinion) is just not worth it given the salary you will likely be making. If you do end up taking that route and apply again in a couple of years, I would recommend applying to a wider range of schools in terms of competitiveness; some of the schools you listed are super competitive and very research focused (Minnesota, UW-Madison, Washington, etc), so you might increase your chances if you applied to mid-tiered schools in addition to the R1 schools.

Thank you for the honesty, i had no idea their funding situation looked like that.

And yes i do realize many of the schools i picked were highly competitive. I went off half-cocked when i began applying in november, thinking mistakenly i understood what was going on. Since reading these boards thoroughly, i realize now how many mistakes i've made and areas i could have done better.

I'm still going to the interview of course for the experience of it, but i had been planning for months now a back-up plan to re-take the GREs and get more research experience anyway, and i may take that course after all as it sounds like your suggestion was in a similar vein.

Originally Posted by dumbledoresgirl

The one thing I will say about SPU is that their funding is almost non-existent. I interviewed there last year (and was accepted), but I just couldn't get past the amount of debt that their students typically incur. Their tuition is around $30,000 a year with little to no funding opportunities (you might get a RA/TA position for a couple of years, but it doesn't come with a tuition waiver so you're still taking out loans).

According to their Educational Outcome Data, tuition is $697/credit...and the program is 199 credits: $139k just in tuition. Unless a significant amount of that tuition is waived, then the cost of attendance seems untenable.

Originally Posted by Therapist4Chnge

According to their Educational Outcome Data, tuition is $697/credit...and the program is 199 credits: $139k just in tuition. Unless a significant amount of that tuition is waived, then the cost of attendance seems untenable.

My idea there was the potential for HPSP in air force or navy, i was attracted to that idea, still am actually. Though that idea is very conflicted with my interest and desire to study forensic psychology, but that's an entirely different problem i have

Hi all,

My background is in applied behavior analysis, and for this reason I only chose to apply to PhD programs with a behavioral orientation. I am currently an undergrad at University of Florida working with Dr. Iwata. Fortunately, I received interviews at the two PhD programs I applied to: University of Florida (Dept. of Psychology, Phd in Psychology, Behavior Analysis Area - Supervisor: Dr. Iwata) and University of Oregon (College of Ed, PhD in School Psych, Supervisors: Dr. Kodak & Dr. Anderson).

Hypothetically speaking, if you were accepted at both of these institutions/programs which one would you pick, and why? Let me know if you need more info. I appreciate any replies in advance.


Thanks!

Hi everyone,

I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. First of all, I just wanted to say that I feel the advice I found on SDN really helped me clinch an acceptance. So thank you everyone! My question is about declining offers from other programs. How should I word the emails (or should I do it by phone?) I've accepted an offer at UW-Madison (PhD School Psych) and wish to decline two other offers. It's tough because I really liked the faculty at these other programs too. I know it's nothing personal, though. Any feedback would be awesome

Here is my predicament.

1. Research position at a well-known hospital. Pharma studies, fMRI stuff, longitudinal data they need analyzed, and additional experience interviewing/testing. Experience gained in neuroimaging and MORE neuropsych testing experience. Work would be with bipolar disorder and autism primarily.Pay decent, full time benefits.

2. Psy.D. from a university- I hope I wasn't sold on this too easily. But being at a university, some funding is available and the school does have a positive reputation as a psy.d. program. Opportunities to do limited research and discussion about how a few of their students within the past few years have obtained good post-doc positions in neuropsych.

I really don't know what to do. This was my second year of applying to Ph.D. programs and this time I decided to include other programs. I already had research experience in the form of four publications (never first or second author) and posters. The job might give me the edge I need next time. But at the same time I have options for the mentioned program, a not yet APA accredited Ph.D. with a chance of being accredited while I am a student, and a Ph.D. in counseling that is APA accredited and a bird in the hand is supposed to be worth more than two in the bush.....I would be back to this point in three years after the grant dries up at this hospital.

Please help me decide between accepting a Psy.d. now or doing the research work for a few years and being a 33 year old just starting his Ph.D. I've considered working with my master's but I would like to ultimately end up in the state where my family lives and the rules they have with master's degrees are very limiting. I'd also like to point out that I have not received any official acceptances only a job offer. Any opinions on IUP would also be helpful since they would help me decide. I just don't know as much as the seasoned veterans on this website.

Originally Posted by clar0780

Hi everyone,

I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. First of all, I just wanted to say that I feel the advice I found on SDN really helped me clinch an acceptance. So thank you everyone! My question is about declining offers from other programs. How should I word the emails (or should I do it by phone?) I've accepted an offer at UW-Madison (PhD School Psych) and wish to decline two other offers. It's tough because I really liked the faculty at these other programs too. I know it's nothing personal, though. Any feedback would be awesome

In general, I'd say just stick with the facts. If it were me, I'd essentially mention just what you've already pointed out--that you truly enjoyed your time during interviews, but that you would like to respectfully decline their offers, as you have accepted a position elsewhere. It happens every year, so faculty should be very used to it.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

In general, I'd say just stick with the facts. If it were me, I'd essentially mention just what you've already pointed out--that you truly enjoyed your time during interviews, but that you would like to respectfully decline their offers, as you have accepted a position elsewhere. It happens every year, so faculty should be very used to it.

Thanks for the feedback. I let the other programs know. It was tough but I made a good choice. Initially, I was concerned with burning bridges and damaging potential collegial relationships. Everything seemed to work out though!

Here's my situation: I just got accepted into Wright State's PsyD program, which was extremely exciting, but my dilemma is that they need an answer by March 1, 2013. The difficulty with that is that I have two more interviews (one of which is my #1, Marshall University) that aren't until the 2nd and 3rd week of March. I'm really flattered that Wright wants me, I know its a fantastic program, but I am already well established at Marshall University's masters program.

Can I accept Wright's invitation, and then back out once I hear from Marshall (which I have a really good chance for acceptance from)?

Help!!

I was under the impression that accepting an offer is a binding agreement, but I could be wrong. At the very least, you'll be burning bridges by backing out on that school, so I wouldn't recommend doing that.

Originally Posted by dumbledoresgirl

I was under the impression that accepting an offer is a binding agreement, but I could be wrong. At the very least, you'll be burning bridges by backing out on that school, so I wouldn't recommend doing that.

I agree. The big risk for me is turning down a program, and then not being accepted to the one I am holding out for.

Do you need to sign some sort of document to accept Wright's offer? That's a tough situation.. How confident do you feel about getting into the other program? You could potentially screw yourself over if you decline Wright and your other choice says no. Why do they need to know by March 1? I thought the national deadline was 4/15

Originally Posted by clar0780

Do you need to sign some sort of document to accept Wright's offer? That's a tough situation.. How confident do you feel about getting into the other program? You could potentially screw yourself over if you decline Wright and your other choice says no. Why do they need to know by March 1? I thought the national deadline was 4/15

I have to sign a letter that says that I am enrolling the program in the fall of 2013. I'm about 95% confident about getting accepted into Marshall's program (realistically, with my MA from them I am already 3/5 through the program and 3 of my letters of rec. came from the admission committee members). My fear is that I will screw myself, like you said. Wright is a great program, but its not my #1. They told me that they made the deadline March 1 so that they could get their top picks, but on the flip side of that we dont get a chance to consider other programs because I know a lot of other programs have not even interviewed yet. I really dont like them trying to force my decision on a program that I'm not fully committed to, but its almost foolish to turn it down.

I was hoping that there would be a way for me to accept at Wright, and then back out later when I hear from Marshall, but I dont know.

Since Wright State is an APA accredited program, you are by law allowed to hold an offer until 4/15. They are not allowed to revoke an offer before this deadline. Did they tell you what they would do if you didn't sign the agreement by 3/1? If they really have a stipulation that they're going to take away the offer by 3/1 unless you agree to attend, you should get that in writing and report it to the APA.

Originally Posted by Marissa4usa

Since Wright State is an APA accredited program, you are by law allowed to hold an offer until 4/15. They are not allowed to revoke an offer before this deadline. Did they tell you what they would do if you didn't sign the agreement by 3/1? If they really have a stipulation that they're going to take away the offer by 3/1 unless you agree to attend, you should get that in writing and report it to the APA.

Thank you for the advice. They told me that the March 1st deadline is "firm" and that "there are many other qualified applicants" waiting for my spot. I am going to speak with them again today to see what I can do. They have made me very leery of their program because of this whole situation. I do not like being forced into a decision.

Originally Posted by WVPsych87

Thank you for the advice. They told me that the March 1st deadline is "firm" and that "there are many other qualified applicants" waiting for my spot. I am going to speak with them again today to see what I can do. They have made me very leery of their program because of this whole situation. I do not like being forced into a decision.

I would absolutely call them and confront them about this. As another poster said, they aren't legally allowed to put pressure on you prior to the 15 of April

Originally Posted by clar0780

I would absolutely call them and confront them about this. As another poster said, they aren't legally allowed to put pressure on you prior to the 15 of April

I called the APA and talked to someone in the continuing education department and they said that its up to the schools to decide when they need to know by. I spoke with a faculty member and she gave me the "you have to do what is best for you" speech and I called the secretary and left a message to call me back. So far everyone has said that the March 1st deadline is firm.

Originally Posted by WVPsych87

I called the APA and talked to someone in the continuing education department and they said that its up to the schools to decide when they need to know by.

That's really vague. Of course, they can decide when they "need" to know by and they can tell these dates to those they accepted all day long. What matters is whether they revoke an offer before 4/15. I would call again and ask specifically ask about the school's legal right to retract an offer by 3/1.

I spoke with a faculty member and she gave me the "you have to do what is best for you" speech and I called the secretary and left a message to call me back. So far everyone has said that the March 1st deadline is firm.

Or what? What's the consequence if you don't tell them?

The one thought I have is whether you received an official letter of acceptance from the Graduate School? Or just an informal email? It sounds like they "informally" accept you and only send you an official letter of acceptance after 3/1. Honestly, if they try to screw with their applicants this way, I don't know if you want to attend their program anyway. But again, I'm just guessing here.

Originally Posted by Emerica

Hi all,

My background is in applied behavior analysis, and for this reason I only chose to apply to PhD programs with a behavioral orientation. I am currently an undergrad at University of Florida working with Dr. Iwata. Fortunately, I received interviews at the two PhD programs I applied to: University of Florida (Dept. of Psychology, Phd in Psychology, Behavior Analysis Area - Supervisor: Dr. Iwata) and University of Oregon (College of Ed, PhD in School Psych, Supervisors: Dr. Kodak & Dr. Anderson).

Hypothetically speaking, if you were accepted at both of these institutions/programs which one would you pick, and why? Let me know if you need more info. I appreciate any replies in advance.


Thanks!

This isn't my area, but U of Oregon's education department is very impressive. I Can't speak to those faculty/program or anything about Florida.

Originally Posted by Marissa4usa

That's really vague. Of course, they can decide when they "need" to know by and they can tell these dates to those they accepted all day long. What matters is whether they revoke an offer before 4/15. I would call again and ask specifically ask about the school's legal right to retract an offer by 3/1.



Or what? What's the consequence if you don't tell them?

The one thought I have is whether you received an official letter of acceptance from the Graduate School? Or just an informal email? It sounds like they "informally" accept you and only send you an official letter of acceptance after 3/1. Honestly, if they try to screw with their applicants this way, I don't know if you want to attend their program anyway. But again, I'm just guessing here.

The consequence is that they revoke their offer. I asked about withdrawing the offer when I spoke to the lady at the APA and she said it was up to the school to decide.

What is the protocol, if any, for accepting an offer, and then backing out if I get into my #1?

Hello all. I'm currently considering Adelphi University's Clinical PhD program, Fordham University's Counseling PhD program, and LIU Post's Clinical PsyD. I had a few questions and was wondering if any of you had any insights into:

Choosing between a more "balanced" school and a school with a targeted theoretical orientation (i.e. Psychodynamic only or CBT only).Adelphi is very psycho dynamic, and although I don't feel 100% comfortable committing to a program that only offers one orientation it's a strong program with solid match rates. I'm conflicted.

QUESTIONS:
How did all of you make that call re: orientation so early on before your training has even begun?

Does anybody have recommendations on materials/books I could look into that explain more about psychodynamic therapy? Something that would help me make an educated decision?

Also, what have you all heard about each one of these programs? I'd be interested to know of their reputations outside of their current student/faculty body.

Thanks so much!

Id pick up a book like Freud and Beyond by Stephen Mitchell to give you a sense of the kinds of theories and readings you'll be doing in a psychodynamic program. This article is an oversimplification of what makes psychodynamic training different, but not a terrible place to start.

Some people make decisions based on their own readings, mentors, research interests, or even personal experiences in therapy. Others may have experience as master's level clinicians. I wouldn't advise against a psychodynamic only education, (others here would) but you should definitely be aware of what you are getting yourself into with that. You may want/need to be proactive in seeking some outside training in CBT if you attend a strict psychodynamic program. There's really only a handful of programs like that left in the country.

I know all those programs are quite expensive, and so is living in the new york area. This should factor heavily into your decision IMO. As far as general reputation, my limited experience as a professional in NY leads me to believe they are similar, with Adelphi having a better than average reputation among dynamically minded folks.

Alright, I've been mulling over this for weeks and now I need to ask for your thoughts:

USUHS mil track clinical PhD or civilian PhD and apply to military for hpsp/intern/direct later?

Originally Posted by LCT4907

Hello all. I'm currently considering Adelphi University's Clinical PhD program, Fordham University's Counseling PhD program, and LIU Post's Clinical PsyD. I had a few questions and was wondering if any of you had any insights into:

Choosing between a more "balanced" school and a school with a targeted theoretical orientation (i.e. Psychodynamic only or CBT only).Adelphi is very psycho dynamic, and although I don't feel 100% comfortable committing to a program that only offers one orientation it's a strong program with solid match rates. I'm conflicted.

QUESTIONS:
How did all of you make that call re: orientation so early on before your training has even begun?

Does anybody have recommendations on materials/books I could look into that explain more about psychodynamic therapy? Something that would help me make an educated decision?

Also, what have you all heard about each one of these programs? I'd be interested to know of their reputations outside of their current student/faculty body.

Thanks so much!

i would consider whether or not you're interested in being in nyc long-term? NYC is a very psychodynamically-oriented place. People love their analysts here!

Thanks so much for the recommendation, the book is already en route to me via Amazon. Appreciate you taking the time to help, I have a lot to think about and you make very good points!