Parental income and need based financial aid

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Anyone know at what income level the parental contribution is expected to equal the COA ?(around 70k at some places I am considering). In order words, how rich is too rich to qualify for any need based financial aid besides stafford and grad plus? I am just asking this out of curiosity.

Based on EFC amounts, I'd estimate about 175-200k would equate a 70K efc. My guess though...

really depends on the school. you should know however that fin aid works differently for med school than for undergrad: the EFC is often used to calculate eligibility, but there isn't any expectation that anyone will actually have to come up with that money. your "expected financial need" always equals your cost of attendance. in other words, the EFC is just a number, one that schools use internally but not one that will mean anything to you.

Just to hit gravity's point home, you will almost certainly not be paying out of pocket for medical school unless 1) you for some reason don't qualify for the standard financial aid programs (e.g., common federal loan programs) and/or 2) you're attending a very expensive school whose costs are larger than the standard limits for federal loan programs. The EFC simply offers one piece of information that determines how "good" (i.e., cheap) your financial aid will be. It won't actually change whether or not you get financial aid.

Originally Posted by gravitywave

really depends on the school. you should know however that fin aid works differently for med school than for undergrad: the EFC is often used to calculate eligibility, but there isn't any expectation that anyone will actually have to come up with that money. your "expected financial need" always equals your cost of attendance. in other words, the EFC is just a number, one that schools use internally but not one that will mean anything to you.

I agree with this - I have no idea how EFC works in medical school, but it is nothing like undergrad.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I understand that financial aid in the form of direct loans will (almost) always be available, but I wanted to know about need based scholarships.

For example, Yale University SOM Financial Aid FAQ has the following question:
"Some students graduate with upwards of $200,000 in debt, while others end up only $90,800 in debt because they received scholarship aid. Is it possible to set some sort of "debt cap" to make things more equitable?"

And the abbreviated answer is:
"There are three reasons that some students graduate with higher debt... The second reason is that some parents choose not to provide some or all of their contribution. If the family is affluent and the expected contribution is high, the student would need to borrow additional loans to cover the parent contribution..."

My family does not plan to contribute any money for medical school but they make around ~300K. Even at a school like Yale, which is known for being extremely generous, will I find myself in 200K+ of loans? Or do my parents not make "enough" to completely disqualify me from getting any sort of need-based scholarship? How affluent is affluent?

Originally Posted by nike292

Thank you everyone for your replies. I understand that financial aid in the form of direct loans will (almost) always be available, but I wanted to know about need based scholarships.

For example, Yale University SOM Financial Aid FAQ has the following question:
"Some students graduate with upwards of $200,000 in debt, while others end up only $90,800 in debt because they received scholarship aid. Is it possible to set some sort of "debt cap" to make things more equitable?"

And the abbreviated answer is:
"There are three reasons that some students graduate with higher debt... The second reason is that some parents choose not to provide some or all of their contribution. If the family is affluent and the expected contribution is high, the student would need to borrow additional loans to cover the parent contribution..."

My family does not plan to contribute any money for medical school but they make around ~300K. Even at a school like Yale, which is known for being extremely generous, will I find myself in 200K+ of loans? Or do my parents not make "enough" to completely disqualify me from getting any sort of need-based scholarship? How affluent is affluent?

Umm, pretty sure you are screwed for need based aid if your parents make that much $, at least based on what Yale says about it. There may be other schools that will overlook it, but evidently Yale doesn't.

If money is this great a concern to you, do you have a state medical school you can rely on for lower costs?

Yeah, fortunately I'm in some state schools and have a full ride merit scholarship at another top 10 school. I really enjoyed my time at Yale and think that the Yale System is perfect for my learning style, so I'm really hoping for a reasonable financial aid package from them.

Originally Posted by nike292

Thank you everyone for your replies. I understand that financial aid in the form of direct loans will (almost) always be available, but I wanted to know about need based scholarships.

For example, Yale University SOM Financial Aid FAQ has the following question:
"Some students graduate with upwards of $200,000 in debt, while others end up only $90,800 in debt because they received scholarship aid. Is it possible to set some sort of "debt cap" to make things more equitable?"

And the abbreviated answer is:
"There are three reasons that some students graduate with higher debt... The second reason is that some parents choose not to provide some or all of their contribution. If the family is affluent and the expected contribution is high, the student would need to borrow additional loans to cover the parent contribution..."

My family does not plan to contribute any money for medical school but they make around ~300K. Even at a school like Yale, which is known for being extremely generous, will I find myself in 200K+ of loans? Or do my parents not make "enough" to completely disqualify me from getting any sort of need-based scholarship? How affluent is affluent?

This is probably something that, once the time comes, you'll want to address with individual financial aid offices. For the most part, schools understand that parental wealth doesn't necessarily have any impact on your ability to pay for school. Most schools also require you to complete school-specific financial aid forms, many of which ask you to include any other facts/circumstances that might better explain your financial situation. This would be the place to include that sort of stuff. It probably won't do much of anything for you, but it's worth a shot.

Thank you everyone for your advice!

Originally Posted by nike292

Thank you everyone for your advice!

Seems like you got your answers already, but I agree with others that your parents' income of $300k will disqualify you from any form of NEED-BASED scholarship, no matter how "generous" or "reasonable" a school is known to be. If you end up attending Yale, you will have to borrow the full COA. Or you could just go to that other top 10 school offering a full ride... (you'd still have to borrow for living expenses)

Yeah, I agree, CheA. Are schools generally open to negotiation when it comes to aid (especially merit based aid) ?

Originally Posted by nike292

Yeah, I agree, CheA. Are schools generally open to negotiation when it comes to aid (especially merit based aid) ?

I've heard that a lot of schools (especially rich schools) have room for negotiation for recruitment purposes. Your full ride at another school could be your bargaining chip with Yale. I cannot speak from experience since I'm going through the finaid application process myself.
Even if you end up with a huge amount of loan, there are some realistic options including extreme austerity and various loan repayment/forgiveness programs depending on your specialty/geographic interests. I found parts of the following thread to be fairly informative:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...=902855&page=2

Also your parents may change their mind once you have $350k debt at the end of med school and expect it to grow to $600k by the end of residency. But of course I'm probably crossing the line at this point.

yikes!! Thanks for the link. I really appreciate everyone's help.

Just got my financial aid "award": 100% stafford and grad plus loans...

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but do number of siblings attending college factor into your EFC and financial aid in medical school? My parents are in the >150k income bracket, but I'd also have two siblings in college during medical school. ... I've heard that undergrad institutions sometimes don't take into account an older sibling in medical school, so is the same the other way around?

Originally Posted by dnase

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but do number of siblings attending college factor into your EFC and financial aid in medical school? My parents are in the >150k income bracket, but I'd also have two siblings in college during medical school. ... I've heard that undergrad institutions sometimes don't take into account an older sibling in medical school, so is the same the other way around?

I know that Yale halves your EFC for every sibling in college. I assume it doesn't matter if your siblings go to private or public school.

Originally Posted by dnase

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but do number of siblings attending college factor into your EFC and financial aid in medical school? My parents are in the >150k income bracket, but I'd also have two siblings in college during medical school. ... I've heard that undergrad institutions sometimes don't take into account an older sibling in medical school, so is the same the other way around?

Yes - add one sibling, and EFC is cut in half, and so on...

Originally Posted by NYCMS2

Yes - add one sibling, and EFC is cut in half, and so on...

Unless the sibling is over 23 or in grad school ( even if your parents are assisting them)