Nd > md ?

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Originally Posted by el poblano

You guys are aware they op is just trolling, right? From the looks of it he already succeeded :-D

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Originally Posted by mrbliss

The op's being sarcastic people, read and enjoy

Yeah really. Some people need their sarcasm detectors fixed.

It really is only a matter of time before they can gain licensure in all 50 states.

And no MCAT! Where do we all apply?!

Originally Posted by zma21

It really is only a matter of time before they can gain licensure in all 50 states.

And no MCAT! Where do we all apply?!

By having no MCAT, they weed out the gunners, ensuring that they have a very collaborative environment.

Originally Posted by Nymphicus

ensuring that they have a very collaborative environment.

Which, you'll surely agree, promotes the hydrotherapy efficacy.


As long as there's incense.

Originally Posted by Marge

2. To be fair, here is the curriculum:

Biochemistry
Human Physiology
Histology
Anatomy
Macro- and Microbiology
Immunology
Human Pathology
Neuroscience
Pharmacology

Clinical Nutrition
Botanical Medicine
Homeopathy
Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine
Lifestyle Counseling
Massage
Physical Medicine
Hydrotherapy

I wanna take some of those courses, actually.

Originally Posted by mmmcdowe

4)Hydrotherapy works by causing blood vessels to pump blood, allowing superior blood flow and removal of toxins from unhealthy tissues.

Lulz. What was the thing about CO2 building up in the blood and causing damage? Why would there be CO2 buildup unless you were exercising vigorously or decided to stop breathing, which you wouldn't do if you were sick (hopefully).

But if we're being honest, some of it did sound sort like osteopathic medicine ... allowing the body to heal itself, structure affects function, etc.

Originally Posted by Marge

Lulz. What was the thing about CO2 building up in the blood and causing damage? Why would there be CO2 buildup unless you were exercising vigorously or decided to stop breathing, which you wouldn't do if you were sick (hopefully).

But if we're being honest, some of it did sound sort like osteopathic medicine ... allowing the body to heal itself, structure affects function, etc.

Happens during respiratory acidosis

Originally Posted by tenndoc

Happens during respiratory acidosis

Das the truf but the lady was saying hydrotherapy should be used for chronic conditions. Perhaps a medical student can comment on the efficacy of using hot and cold water to vasodilate and vasoconstrict, respectively, one's blood vessels, and how that would affect one's overall health.

Originally Posted by Marge

Das the truf but the lady was saying hydrotherapy should be used for chronic conditions. Perhaps a medical student can comment on the efficacy of using hot and cold water to vasodilate and vasoconstrict, respectively, one's blood vessels, and how that would affect one's overall health.

shhh... god did it, thats alll you need to know

Originally Posted by Nymphicus

By having no MCAT, they weed out the gunners, ensuring that they have a very collaborative environment.

Hahaha!! Best post I've read all night! Thanks for teh lulz :-)

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Named by The Princeton Review as one of the 168 best medical schools in the country, the School of Naturopathic Medicine at Bastyr University is committed to developing leaders in the evolving field of natural medicine. Bastyr's fully accredited naturopathic doctor (ND) degree program is internationally renowned for its rigorous curriculum, comprehensive clinical training and groundbreaking research. With that in mind, there is no better place to earn a well-respected, nationally recognized degree in natural medicine than Bastyr.


And they even have dual degree options!! Master of Science in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine!

At Bastyr's teaching clinic, Bastyr Center for Natural Health, as well as at Bastyr's off-site community care clinics, you are trained to be a primary care physician capable of treating a broad spectrum of patients. This training emphasizes adherence to the highest standards in patient assessment, differential diagnosis, medical record documentation, referral practices and patient follow-up.
You will be taught by faculty who are outstanding physicians, many of whom are recognized leaders in their fields. Your shift supervisor encourages, leads and directs the patient/clinician encounter, while allowing you gradually increasing levels of autonomy.


http://www.bastyr.edu/academics/area...athic-medicine






Where do I sign up???

Originally Posted by beargunkarate

MDs are obsolete and extremely limited?? Really?!?

Originally Posted by compshateme85

What I don't get, is after all those biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, pathology, histology classes etc, the people taking them can then sit there and listen to how diet can cure cancer AND BELIEVE IT.

There is such a huge cognitive disconnect, I must be missing something.

Didn't you hear that tumors have insulin receptors on 'em? This proves that sugar causes cancer. This also proves that if you feed someone wolfsbane or something with sugar, it will kill the tumor.

Obviously you haven't taken as much basic science as an ND.

Originally Posted by scarshapedstar

Didn't you hear that tumors have insulin receptors on 'em? This proves that sugar causes cancer. This also proves that if you feed someone wolfsbane or something with sugar, it will kill the tumor.

Obviously you haven't taken as much basic science as an ND.

Hey, naturopathic remedies are NATURAL. What more do you need to know? They aren't evil, toxic, chemicals, made in a lab somewhere! They are NATURAL substances, how could they NOT be better than the drugs MD's push?

I'm extremely interested in finding out exactly what has been groundbreaking about bastyr's research.

Well if you have cancer, Bastyr is definitely the place to go!

The Bastyr Integrative Oncology Research Center (BIORC) opened in February 2009 on Bastyr University's campus in Kenmore, Washington. The center offers research participants an integrated approach to managing their cancer, providing comprehensive support for each stage of the participant's experience(from diagnosis to treatment decisions and restoration of immune function and health after completion of standard treatments). Research participants can receive care from licensed naturopathic physicians, nutritionists and acupuncturists, all of whom have advanced oncology training.


http://www.bastyr.edu/research/clini...ative-oncology

Before I walk in to take a final... I'd just like to Comment on their comparison on credits. I took Med biochem for 2 credits and in undergrad took rhetoric seminar for 4. Just Sayin

Hmm, no.

Homeopathy = immediate disqualification from the competition.

Rough break, naturopaths. Sorry.

I left Bastyr's ND program. Trust me. Its NOT the same. Diagnostic skills are ZERO upon graduation! and I don't know what clinical skills you are referring to because...well, besides giving B12 shots and " prescribing" suppliments you can get over the counter yourself, there isn't any! There should be a mandetory residency program!!!!!! Omg I'm serious! These students are not equipped as primary practitioners! And they have to find other nd's to gain experience under if they "want" to...its not mandetory!

And there is a reason ND's work @ health food stores, and suppliment stores.... they are not experienced enough to actually treat and dignose sick people. Healthy people?...sure. supplement away ND's, but How can you prescribe your patient anything when you have ZERO understanding of what medications he walked through your office already on? How they work...what they interact with! I saw one nd advertising ozone therapy! Seriously?? Who's is regulating these naturopaths?? I'm taking my mcat and going the DO route because I knew the limits of nd! I saw and experienced it myself... I think it is terribly wrong to be unable to admit as an ND you are limited in diagnostic skills needed to treat patients MEDICALLY! And if you are a primary doctor ehem... then that is what you are suppose to be able to do!

Medical students...can you imagine treating patients the day after graduation. (Boards too) without a residency and ZERO supervision??

This is so wrong!

Originally Posted by holisticmedicin

I left Bastyr's ND program. Trust me. Its NOT the same.

How far did you go with the program?

The first two years are sound. Hard core classes. It is during "clinicals" at the neighborhood clinic that the deficits really begin to show. Serving patients with chronic issues is imperative you have a solid medical understanding of the meds they ARE CURRENTLY on from their MD/DO. This is where it gets dicey in my opinion. I know one student who left and is attending PNWU this fall. Holistic medicine should be used in a partnership with an md/do. Then naturopathic medicine can be extremely helpful. I left after serious counsel from md's that treat patients with a naturopathic/holistic approach and ND's. All agree you can always go MD/DO and take the knowledge and integrate naturopathic/holistic, but you can't be an ND and integreat the skills/knowledge of an MD/DO... afterall, you have to find your own experience under an ND when you graduate as a naturopath as well if you want supervised experience in the ND field. The program just needs mandatory residencies. Then it would be a great program within its scope! I don't want to bash bastyr. Professors are top notch. But this program is incomplete. And its expensive. You can walk into almost any suppliments store in seattle and find an ND on staff, I'm sure working to pay off their student loans.. a doctor making...what 16 bucks an hr? Maybe??? Hmm that is a huge red flag as well.

This is my last post on this subject. My advice to anyone contimplating the ND route. Be wise, seek counsel and do your due dilegence. Don't make this choice based on emotion or your core belief in natural medicine. Do you have money to start your own practice? There are very few ND jobs. Do you have a seasoned ND who can teach you for @ least 3 yrs after graduation? Do you have enough discernment to know the patient in front of you needs allopathicmedical treatment coupled with your treatment and your strong enough and secure enough to tell her that? Be wise. Don't be emotional and blinded. Reality is a B *$%h on the other side.

I can't really tell who is trolling but seriously, ND are dangerous! and they are competing with MDs and DOs at least in Arizona. I don't know how people are just trusting them. As I said in other post, I almost died because I was just too dumb to go see a ND instead of a real doc because I thought they were better since they were holistic.

Just saying

I'd rather see a nurse practioner.

Originally Posted by Life Sucks

I'd rather see a nurse practioner.

same, although i had an experience where I went to see a np and she freaked out because i came out positive for TB test. i tried to explain to her that people who were born abroad are often vaccinated for TB, but she didn't seem to understand and kept pushing that i take a year long medicine for it. so i switched to a real doc

Originally Posted by zoner

same, although i had an experience where I went to see a np and she freaked out because i came out positive for TB test. i tried to explain to her that people who were born abroad are often vaccinated for TB, but she didn't seem to understand and kept pushing that i take a year long medicine for it. so i switched to a real doc

she didn't go for the chest xray after a positive PPD? that is kinda standard....

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

she didn't go for the chest xray after a positive PPD? that is kinda standard....

she just didn't know these things... really even the regular nurses know these simple things.. i know she might have been just off that day or just one bad seed but it really made me realize that i will not go see np or pa as my pcp.. she even called me to try to convince me to go on the meds and i had to politely refuseit and she thought i was the one being all crazy

I'm sold.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

she didn't go for the chest xray after a positive PPD? that is kinda standard....

lol this coincides very nicely with the NP thread

Originally Posted by calvnandhobbs68

lol this coincides very nicely with the NP thread

someone in that thread linked this one, and well..... threadonecrophilia

Originally Posted by zoner

she just didn't know these things... really even the regular nurses know these simple things.. i know she might have been just off that day or just one bad seed but it really made me realize that i will not go see np or pa as my pcp.. she even called me to try to convince me to go on the meds and i had to politely refuseit and she thought i was the one being all crazy

I have personally had similar situations with midlevels as well as heard several from friends/family. To be perfectly honest.... I am not aware of a single anecdotal incident from the people close to me in which there wasn't a problem.

there is anti np thread as well?

Originally Posted by zoner

there is anti np thread as well?

these threads are somewhat common around here.

I was super confused when I saw it was Nymphicus posting this BS...and then I realized it was Nymphicus posting!

Originally Posted by mehc012

Incorrect. Enough said.

no that is a correct statement. Because saying there is no "right" or "wrong" is not the same as saying there is no "greater than" or "less than"

Wait crap... for a second there I thought we were in an NP thread, not ND.... yes, ND training is wrong and you basically have to reject most of what is taught in pre-clinic years to adhere to it.

Originally Posted by mehc012

Incorrect. Enough said.

excellent analysis

Haaaaaa. Just had a dream about this. Posted about it in pre-osteo.

I'm actually surprised they focused their attack at MD curriculum and not DO. DO schools would be the weaker foe in the community's eyes anyway.

whatever guys, hydrotherapy is legit.

I pulled a muscle in my elbow, took an ice bath and was cured of pain in 20 minutes. I would have been on aspirin for a week to get the same results.

In seriousness though, I feel bad poking fun at others people's expense and refuse to take part. You guys should be nicer.

Originally Posted by Mehd School

Haaaaaa. Just had a dream about this. Posted about it in pre-osteo.

I'm actually surprised they focused their attack at MD curriculum and not DO. DO schools would be the weaker foe in the community's eyes anyway.

Lol. I hate pre med dreams. The night right before my interview in Houston, I dreamt that I overslept my interview by three hours. I woke up terrified and checked the clock. It was 4:30 in the morning but needless to say, I was so nervous about oversleeping I couldn't fall back asleep lol.

Originally Posted by mehc012

I was super confused when I saw it was Nymphicus posting this BS...and then I realized it was Nymphicus posting!

I'm afraid I don't follow.


However, after reading:

Licensed naturopathic physicians have attended four-year professional-level programs at accredited institutions, where they have been educated in the same basic sciences as allopathic physicians. Some member schools in the AANMC actually require more hours of basic and clinical science than many top allopathic medical schools. (!!!!!!!!)
http://www.aanmc.org/naturopathic-medicine/naturopathic-physicians-are-rigorously-trained.php

I'm glad I just go to a regular, old-fashioned MD school because I probably wouldn't pass the curriculum at a ND school!

Originally Posted by def1

I feel bad poking fun at others people's expense and refuse to take part. You guys should be nicer.

Well, it's one thing to poke fun at individuals, but a whole other thing when the representing body is full of ****. ND's could be ok, but their main source of information is down-putting of the golden standard degree of medicine today. If they just kept to themselves and said "This is what an ND is, and this is why we're good" instead of "This is what an ND is. We do more than MD's do. See how qualified we are???"

I mean, I'm going to be applying to osteo schools, but for the very same ****ty image reasons (among many others) the AOA is an easy target. They don't represent themselves in a tactful manner, and instead bring the entire DO degree down a little bit.

You'll never see me say "Look at that dumb ass ND. Couldn't get into a real man's medical school, or what?". I'll never do that because I genuinely don't care about people's career paths and choices other than my very own.

Outside of our own narcissistic views, there seriously are people who want to go to podiatry or chiropractic school instead of MD/DO. I have a friend that pulled a 3.8 and 36 and went to a podiatry school. Full ride. His dream school.

Originally Posted by Nymphicus

I'm afraid I don't follow.


However, after reading:

Licensed naturopathic physicians have attended four-year professional-level programs at accredited institutions, where they have been educated in the same basic sciences as allopathic physicians. Some member schools in the AANMC actually require more hours of basic and clinical science than many top allopathic medical schools. (!!!!!!!!)
http://www.aanmc.org/naturopathic-medicine/naturopathic-physicians-are-rigorously-trained.php

I'm glad I just go to a regular, old-fashioned MD school because I probably wouldn't pass the curriculum at a ND school!

I was confused because SDN has a tendency to suck the sense of humor out of me. I thought it was BS until I saw it was you, and then I looked closer. Then I realized that this was some seriously good info...I mean, I would never have considered ND before, but now I have to reconsider my app strategy.

Huh...double posted. Odd.

Originally Posted by mehc012

I was confused because SDN has a tendency to suck the sense of humor out of me. I thought it was BS until I saw it was you, and then I looked closer. Then I realized that this was some seriously good info...I mean, I would never have considered ND before, but now I have to reconsider my app strategy.

It was sarcasm. That is only good info if you don't think about it at all

She just didn't know these things... really even the regular nurses know these simple things..

Even I know that. And only because you have to get a TB test to volunteer in a hospital setting. How could you not know that as an NP!

Originally Posted by Mehd School

Outside of our own narcissistic views, there seriously are people who want to go to podiatry or chiropractic school instead of MD/DO. I have a friend that pulled a 3.8 and 36 and went to a podiatry school. Full ride. His dream school.

Is there a "DO or ND?" thread yet? I will be so sad...

Originally Posted by Nymphicus

Named by The Princeton Review as one of the 168 best medical schools in the country, the School of Naturopathic Medicine at Bastyr University is committed to developing leaders in the evolving field of natural medicine. Bastyr's fully accredited naturopathic doctor (ND) degree program is internationally renowned for its rigorous curriculum, comprehensive clinical training and groundbreaking research. With that in mind, there is no better place to earn a well-respected, nationally recognized degree in natural medicine than Bastyr.


And they even have dual degree options!! Master of Science in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine!

At Bastyr's teaching clinic, Bastyr Center for Natural Health, as well as at Bastyr's off-site community care clinics, you are trained to be a primary care physician capable of treating a broad spectrum of patients. This training emphasizes adherence to the highest standards in patient assessment, differential diagnosis, medical record documentation, referral practices and patient follow-up.
You will be taught by faculty who are outstanding physicians, many of whom are recognized leaders in their fields. Your shift supervisor encourages, leads and directs the patient/clinician encounter, while allowing you gradually increasing levels of autonomy.


http://www.bastyr.edu/academics/area...athic-medicine






Where do I sign up???

LMFAO

This one kills me. Really.

"one of the 168 best medical schools in the country"


there are 138 MD schools
there are 29 DO schools

138 + 29 = 167

do they even rank ND "schools"?

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

It was sarcasm. That is only good info if you don't think about it at all

Yes, this was me joining the sarcasm, rather than simply bashing the first post like I did initially. In the end, what it REALLY means is that I posted when I was too tired/otherwise out of it, and failed on all levels of internet communication (twice). My bad. Carry on, folks!

Oh god, I turned it into an anti-NP thread. Oh yeah don't bash D.O's. Can't have doctor without the D.O.
But seriously, I have a very bad experience with NP's.

Originally Posted by Life Sucks

Oh god, I turned it into an anti-NP thread. Oh yeah don't bash D.O's. Can't have doctor without the D.O.
But seriously, I have a very bad experience with NP's.

We have to bash naturopathic doctors. Natural treatments has to be made very inferior to the big pharma industry.

To treat fibroids? Full on pain meds. Obesity? Give them liposuction and stomach stapling sugery? Don't like that? throw them out of your office. Big pharma's goal is to make sure patients stay on long term medication. If there's natural ways of curing diseases ... we have to call them quacks and bash them hard so nobody hears about it.

Originally Posted by delta121

We have to bash naturopathic doctors. Natural treatments has to be made very inferior to the big pharma industry.

To treat fibroids? Full on pain meds. Obesity? Give them liposuction and stomach stapling sugery? Don't like that? throw them out of your office. Big pharma's goal is to make sure patients stay on long term medication. If there's natural ways of curing diseases ... we have to call them quacks and bash them hard so nobody hears about it.

Nice sarcasm.