Will my past academic record haunt me?

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Take it one step at a time. Your story isn't any worse than the rest of us. 25 is not old. I was 32.

1. Take the pre-req's you need. DO schools replace the old grades, MD schools average them
2. Do some shadowing so you know what you are getting into
3. Take the MCAT, see how that goes
4. Apply early (June) and cross your fingers, realize you may need to apply multiple times.

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Originally Posted by PanicMoon

Thanks for the reply!

May I ask, at what age did you start medical school? Are you an MD or DO?I've read a lot about DO school, but I can't really say that it interests me much. Any tips on finding MDs to shadow?

32, I said that
I'm DO, my signature says that
Can't help you on the MD side.

X

Hmm, I fear you are in for a huge wake up call if you expect to stay in Chicago. Not that it's not a goal to try to achieve but to limit your applications to 4 MD schools by your home is really short sighted and to say you wouldn't apply to a DO school because it's an hour away, even more so. Most students apply to 25 schools or more. Even if you do get to stay in Chicago, there is no guarantee that you will be staying there for residency. The sooner you realize this, the less shocked and disappointed you will be later.

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Hello my fellow chicagoan,

I was once in your position, so I will try to throw in my .02 cents.

Many years ago when I embarked on this journey, I was mostly ignorant, not even knowing the difference between two degrees. As I discovered along the way, the difference between two degrees were almost non-existent in real world and the only dumb person who cared was myself, no one else.

As I further progressed through two application cycles, I also learned a little humility and open-mindedness could go a long way. After the first unsuccessful cycle, I applied to an even mixture of both MD and DO schools (35 total) and ended up being rejected from all MD schools (second time) but luckily, managed to gain a few acceptances at DO schools. Having attended interviews at these schools, I was convinced that they would provide me excellent education and training regarless of their location and the degree they confer.

I am very grateful that they are willing to look past my blemishes and my age. In the end, I will be attending medical school and this is all that matters to me.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by PanicMoon

This is great, the exact reason why I decided to join this forum.

I'm literally in my 1st month of putting together the pieces for applying to med school, so there is a lot I don't know & am not considering. I hadn't even thought about residency until now.

Another big reason I am partial to Chicago schools is because it's my understanding that most schools give preference to in-state applicants. If my best chance is an IL school, I'd prefer to stay as close to family as possible.

Obviously as fall further down the rabbit hole, I'm going to have to make some sacrifices & serious decisions, but my goal would be to stay in Chicago for medical school at least.

How many credits over all do you have, and what is your GPA? How many of those are Biology, Chemistry, Physics or Math, and what is your GPA of just those classes? Remember that you have to include all failed courses even if you re-took for an A later, as MD schools don't replace grades. Once you have those numbers, people will be better able to tell you what you have to do, and how good your chances are, at getting into MD schools, DO schools, and specific schools in desired locations.

Remember that the average GPA of matriculants to all MD schools overall is a 3.67, and the average MCAT is over a 31. Both of those numbers are lower for DO schools, and since DO schools allow grade replacement (they will only consider the most recent attempt at a class instead of including past failing grades in your GPA) you can possibly be competitive for DO schools much more quickly than for MD schools. Why are you "not interested" in DO schools, simply because of location?

A few thoughts:

1) Any given year, both AAMC/MD and AACOM/DO have first year matriculants ranging in age from teenagers to over 50.

2) Most students apply between 12 and 20 schools; there is some anecdotal evidence to suggest that nontraditional/older students are the upper range or more.

3) On average 50% of DO graduates go on to allopathic (MD) medical residencies. The rest go to medical residencies sponsored by osteopathic/DO institutions but are in fact completely equivalent to MD residencies. In the end 10% of DO graduates go on to practice purely "traditional" osteopathic medicine.

4) GPA and MCAT scores have been steadily climbing for students accepted for MD, thus making it more selective thus more competitive on academic basis than it was 10 years ago.

5) even with the growth of DO schools, more and more people are applying. So solely on applicant to seat ratio, it is more competitive than it was a decade ago, so it too is becoming more selective.

6) as has been pointed out the two main application "mechanics" differences is for MD, every class you ever took and every grade you ever received, even if repeated, will be calculated into your application GPA. Additionally, your science GPA will consist solely of biology, chemistry, math, and physics (BCMP).

For DO, only the grade from the last repeat of a course will be included in application GPA. Additionally, science GPA will not include math but will include a broader array or science.

for nontraditional students like yourself, who often carry what I call "grade baggage" find the lower overall GPA/MCAT averages along with the grade replacement policy, make DO an attractive path to medicine.

In the end, once you are a board certified physician in whatever specialty, no one will care that you're an MD or DO.

I will be starting just before I turn 36... DO school, had to do lots of GPA repair... It can be done!!

Originally Posted by gonnif

A few thoughts:

1) Any given year, both AAMC/MD and AACOM/DO have first year matriculants ranging in age from teenagers to over 50.

2) Most students apply between 12 and 20 schools; there is some anecdotal evidence to suggest that nontraditional/older students are the upper range or more.

3) On average 50% of DO graduates go on to allopathic (MD) medical residencies. The rest go to medical residencies sponsored by osteopathic/DO institutions but are in fact completely equivalent to MD residencies. In the end 10% of DO graduates go on to practice purely "traditional" osteopathic medicine.

4) GPA and MCAT scores have been steadily climbing for students accepted for MD, thus making it more selective thus more competitive on academic basis than it was 10 years ago.

5) even with the growth of DO schools, more and more people are applying. So solely on applicant to seat ratio, it is more competitive than it was a decade ago, so it too is becoming more selective.

6) as has been pointed out the two main application "mechanics" differences is for MD, every class you ever took and every grade you ever received, even if repeated, will be calculated into your application GPA. Additionally, your science GPA will consist solely of biology, chemistry, math, and physics (BCMP).

For DO, only the grade from the last repeat of a course will be included in application GPA. Additionally, science GPA will not include math but will include a broader array or science.

for nontraditional students like yourself, who often carry what I call "grade baggage" find the lower overall GPA/MCAT averages along with the grade replacement policy, make DO an attractive path to medicine.

In the end, once you are a board certified physician in whatever specialty, no one will care that you're an MD or DO.

This is a really great summary!

I'm starting MD school this fall, just before my 37th birthday. My GPA is still horrible because of my undergraduate grades, but I'm not nearly the same person that I was 15 years ago. Making an A or A+ in all prerequisite classes certainly helped.

Keep plugging away, and working this out one step at a time. If you're truly committed to becoming a physician, you'll find a way to make it happen. Small steps, one exam at a time.

Good luck!

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4 schools within 10-30 minutes? I've got good news for you: In Chicagoland, there are 6 MD and 1 DO: UIC, NW, UofC, Rush, Loyola, CMS, Midwestern. You can't go anywhere in Chi without running into short coats.

GPA repair is definitely doable. I graduated in 07 and basically went right back to get another bachelors because I knew I could do better. My AMCAS gpa was still horrible but for schools that looked at the trend, and the fact that I had a 3.9 overall in my second program, I got interviews and acceptances. Just going to use the good stuff from the past and fix what didn't work. Make sure you kill it this time. I started school at 25 so by no means was I old (rising M3 now). I would say you are going to have to open your considerations for school though. UofC and NW are probably unrealistic, there are too many students with perfect records applying to those schools. UIC might be your best bet if you do well in your bachelors and get a decent MCAT. Obviously CCOM is around too.

Originally Posted by gonnif

A few thoughts:

. . . . .your science GPA will consist solely of biology, chemistry, math, and physics (BCMP).

I don't think I ever realized math was part of that number (not sure what I thought the M stood for!). Do all math classes go into this calculation, including prep classes (i.e., intermediate algebra, pre-cal/trig)?

Originally Posted by Ellipsis1104

I don't think I ever realized math was part of that number (not sure what I thought the M stood for!). Do all math classes go into this calculation, including prep classes (i.e., intermediate algebra, pre-cal/trig)?

If you got college credit for it yep (meaning it wasnt one of those classes that you have to take to catch up to everyone else, which i'm assuming you're not talking about)

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Yes, it will haunt you until you get an acceptance, then it doesn't matter.

Mine sure is

Originally Posted by PanicMoon

Thanks! I'm actually planning to go to Northwestern to get my Bachelor's, so I'm hoping that gives me an edge. I wouldn't even think of applying there or to UofC for medical school though. I'm heavily leaning towards UIC, Rosalind Franklin or maybe even Rush. I don't know much about CCOM, but have been looking into it.

Good Luck! I forgot about RFU, they're a good shot too. Rush I hear is big on getting 10 in each section of the MCAT, or maybe a 29 is ok if its a 10/10/9 type thing. And of course theres Loyola but they're west side (which I know you know, but its sounding like you're on the north side so prob don't want to go out to maywood) and they get a lot of applications.

I suggest going to the non-trad FAQs sticky and perusing the "non-trad secrets of success" & "low-gpa success" threads. You'll not only accumulate a wealth of good info but find stories to inspire you.