MD & DO 37Q, decent GPAs, but academic record problem - & need help

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Okay, so here's the thing. (aka, my academic history in a nutshell)

1. After high school, I went to Caltech, but ended up withdrawing from fall quarter, sabbatical winter quarter, returned for spring quarter + next fall quarter, withdrew from school (i.e. left) partway through winter quarter. GPA at time of departure: 4.0 (only 3 classes were taken on grades, others on mandatory pass/fail ... and I failed computer science & "core" calculus, heavily analytical/theoretical).

2. "Restarted" at community college, maintained 4.0 and many, many extracurricular/leadership/service activities. Won several awards as well.

3. Transferred to UCLA. Fall quarter went well, but after that, a combination of factors made me go on a roller coaster ride for two years. One of which included an admissions officer essentially crushing my dreams in winter quarter (told me I probably would have trouble getting into med school even if my UCLA record was perfect). Attended a summer research program abroad. Not great extracurriculars, bad academic trend (including incompletes, withdrawals, some retakes), but explainable if they seriously look at my LORs & statement.

BUT - my record shows that despite general downward trends for a period, if a class really challenged me, I was able to do well in it (score an A or A-). One of the LOR writers is my professor from one of these challenging courses.

4. Took the MCAT twice; first, before I recovered from depression (not clinical, at least I don't think, I never went to see a psychiatrist.. did have many meetings spaced out over a year or so with clinical psychologist at school, though) .. and again this March (after recovery). First MCAT - 7/10/12 (29S); Most recent MCAT - 11/14/12 (37Q)


So...

I honestly have no idea where I stand. So much depends on whether or not they believe me and pay attention to my personal statement. I know I can get stellar recommendations (although I'll have to narrow the initial list down to 3, still need to figure out which ones to choose..), but the med schools will have to really pay attention to that, too, instead of just dismissing me based on a glance at my transcript.

My current GPA is around 3.3-3.5 cum, 3.6-3.7 science if I don't average grades from retakes (original+retake/2).

I'm looking at these schools (both DO and MD) - but I need help eliminating schools I have absolutely no chance at:

DO
LECOM - Bradenton
NYCOM
OUCOM
UMDNJ-SOM (PBLC track, if possible)
Western U/COMP in Pomona, CA

MD
Ohio State University SOM
UM-Columbia SOM
Wake Forest SOM
Cleveland Clinic Lerner COM (affiliated w/ Case Western)
Northwestern University SOM
(Weill) Cornell SOM
Drexel University SOM
NYU-SOM
DukeMed
UC - Davis, Irvine, LA, SD
USC Keck
Loma Linda University


Thanks a bunch for reading/skimming through & helping me out.

(PS, I'm from California, if you haven't figured that out based on my undergrad schools. Degree will be in Neuroscience. But I'm Asian - Chinese, specifically.. boo to chance-dropping ethnicities!)

Okay, I see that I got a sizable amount of views, but why no responses =( Is it because it looks like a wall of text?

My post isn't for trolling or bragging reasons, I'm really VERY concerned how my UCLA record will impact my chances.. please, any tips would help.

First off, I would really remove your name from the CV.

That being said, my somewhat comprehensive read-through of your post and CV suggests that you have a trend of performing poorly at respected institutions (UCLA and Caltech) and performing well at the biggest joke CC in SoCal. For MD, you will need to average your grades since AMCAS doesn't do retakes. I will assume that this lowers your GPA even further.

Even though you got a 37 on the MCAT, I think your chances are mediocre at best for the top schools. Your activities are brief and do not show commitment. Additionally, I didn't see much in the way of medically-related activities. I would apply to a lot of safeties. Adjust your numbers downward for the academic record to build a list.


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Hmm, okay.. changed the CV.

I thought the brevity could be explained somewhat by the transferring, but that's fine. Had no idea Mt. SAC was considered a joke CC, its professors are pretty top-notch, but okay. Some of those issues (especially the performance trend at UCLA) will be addressed in my statement. As for the medically-related activities, I only really have two at the moment, but that's something that I'll be working on during the gap year.

Thanks for the feedback! If you have time, though, can you please highlight the schools you believe I wouldn't stand a chance at (and safeties-I have no idea what those are for me, given my situation)? I don't want to waste too much many applying to those, my resources are pretty limited.

Originally Posted by meix

Hmm, okay.. changed the CV.

I thought the brevity could be explained somewhat by the transferring, but that's fine. Had no idea Mt. SAC was considered a joke CC, its professors are pretty top-notch, but okay. Some of those issues (especially the performance trend at UCLA) will be addressed in my statement. As for the medically-related activities, I only really have two at the moment, but that's something that I'll be working on during the gap year.

Thanks for the feedback! If you have time, though, can you please highlight the schools you believe I wouldn't stand a chance at (and safeties-I have no idea what those are for me, given my situation)? I don't want to waste too much many applying to those, my resources are pretty limited.

I didn't say that your professors at SAC aren't "top notch." What I am saying is that SAC is not known for rigor (rather the opposite). Your ability to get a 4.0 at this mega-CC is not impressive, especially coupled with your poor academic performance at UCLA and Caltech.

I would use the MSAR to construct your school list. Of the schools you listed, I would say NW, Cornell, and CCLCM are highly selective. You can certainly apply to these as reaches, but bear in mind that they are not targets for you. Additionally, I would add schools like Albany, NYMC, SLU, Rush, RFU-CMS, etc.

Make sure that your EC's tell a story that is consistent with the mission-based schools. Keck, Davis, and Irvine are about primary care and service to underserved regions.

NB: ***remove*** your name, address, phone number, and email from your CV. Blocking them out with black bars does not work.

Ugh, re-uploading again. I didn't realize putting it in PDF format would still keep the text, blacked out or not.

I see what you mean about SAC; it doesn't matter whether or not I stuck to the most rigorous courses, the general perception of the school makes my performance more of a nonfactor. Does it help if I address the poor UCLA performance in my statement? Or will they brush it off as lack of ability regardless? I have done well in most of the more challenging courses I took at UCLA, does that make any difference?

Thanks for your input!

Originally Posted by meix

Ugh, re-uploading again. I didn't realize putting it in PDF format would still keep the text, blacked out or not.

I see what you mean about SAC; it doesn't matter whether or not I stuck to the most rigorous courses, the general perception of the school makes my performance more of a nonfactor. Does it help if I address the poor UCLA performance in my statement? Or will they brush it off as lack of ability regardless? I have done well in most of the more challenging courses I took at UCLA, does that make any difference?

Thanks for your input!

This will depend on your justification. Generally, you will want to avoid giving excuses for your performance. If you have a compelling reason for your shortcomings that has been addressed since your time at UCLA, provide it. Otherwise, you run the risk of painting yourself as incompetent, unpredictable, and/or irresponsible.

Okay, thank you =)

Addendum: Would it be a better idea to do postbac or grad school (masters) for a year first? Or will I have a good enough chance as is to get an acceptance that waiting the extra year shouldn't be necessary? I really don't care if I get into a top school or not, I'm mainly more concerned about the schools' curriculum.

Originally Posted by meix

Okay, thank you =)

Addendum: Would it be a better idea to do postbac or grad school (masters) for a year first? Or will I have a good enough chance as is to get an acceptance that waiting the extra year shouldn't be necessary? I really don't care if I get into a top school or not, I'm mainly more concerned about the schools' curriculum.

You're in good shape for DO without a year off. For MD, you will need an SMP to have a good chance. I am operating under the assumption that your past academic hx is too extensive for a postbac to do anything.

Upon further reflection on your academics (4.0 at SAC and a 3.3 cGPA with retakes taken into account would suggest a GPA at UCLA of a 2.x), a potential red flag in your application is a downward grade trend. Be careful of this. Additionally, adcoms may see your enrollment at SAC as a way to artificially raise your GPA. For these additional reasons, an SMP will do you good.

N.B.: SMP ≠ typical masters program. A typical MA/MS/MPH/MBA/MFA/certificate in underwater basketweaving will waste your time and money.

Originally Posted by Jamie561

You're in good shape for DO without a year off. For MD, you will need an SMP to have a good chance. I am operating under the assumption that your past academic hx is too extensive for a postbac to do anything.

Upon further reflection on your academics (4.0 at SAC and a 3.3 cGPA with retakes taken into account would suggest a GPA at UCLA of a 2.x), a potential red flag in your application is a downward grade trend. Be careful of this. Additionally, adcoms may see your enrollment at SAC as a way to artificially raise your GPA. For these additional reasons, an SMP will do you good.

N.B.: SMP ≠ typical masters program. A typical MA/MS/MPH/MBA/MFA/certificate in underwater basketweaving will waste your time and money.

My UC GPA will be 3.0+ by the end of this quarter. I will be touching on the reason why I enrolled at SAC (more cost effective way of trying to figure out what I wanted to do in life, essentially, than enrolling at a 4-year) in my statement, and I'm still figuring out how to explain my UC performance without biasing them against me (we can discuss this in private if it's important) for telling the truth.

IF I went with trying to get a master's, I probably would look at neuroscience.. likely nothing else. But yeah, money is an issue =\

I was thinking of applying to Drexel's IMS program, but that costs $25k and the program starts before you even hear back from any med schools.. trying to weigh my options there x.x

Again, thanks for taking the time to give your input =) Greatly appreciated!

Originally Posted by meix

My UC GPA will be 3.0+ by the end of this quarter. I will be touching on the reason why I enrolled at SAC (more cost effective way of trying to figure out what I wanted to do in life, essentially, than enrolling at a 4-year) in my statement, and I'm still figuring out how to explain my UC performance without biasing them against me (we can discuss this in private if it's important) for telling the truth.

IF I went with trying to get a master's, I probably would look at neuroscience.. likely nothing else. But yeah, money is an issue =\

I was thinking of applying to Drexel's IMS program, but that costs $25k and the program starts before you even hear back from any med schools.. trying to weigh my options there x.x

Again, thanks for taking the time to give your input =) Greatly appreciated!

Are you risk averse? The risk averse thing to do would be to enroll in an SMP and apply next cycle. For this cycle, you would need to apply very broadly to justify taking the year to apply. If you haven't figured out by now, applications are pretty expensive. All told, you should expect to spend ~$100 per school (primary + secondary), and much more if you need to travel for interviews. I think I ended up spending around $10k.

Your reasons for doing poorly at LA are not as important, IMO, as what you've done to redeem yourself. Actions >>>> words. Moreover, depending on how well your reasons are documented (diagnosis, etc), this could work horribly against you.

ETA: M.S. in Neuroscience won't do much for your application.

Originally Posted by Jamie561

Are you risk averse? The risk averse thing to do would be to enroll in an SMP and apply next cycle. For this cycle, you would need to apply very broadly to justify taking the year to apply. If you haven't figured out by now, applications are pretty expensive. All told, you should expect to spend ~$100 per school (primary + secondary), and much more if you need to travel for interviews. I think I ended up spending around $10k.

Your reasons for doing poorly at LA are not as important, IMO, as what you've done to redeem yourself. Actions >>>> words. Moreover, depending on how well your reasons are documented (diagnosis, etc), this could work horribly against you.

ETA: M.S. in Neuroscience won't do much for your application.

I'd be willing to take the risk so long as I have a fair shot at acceptance into either a DO or an MD school, preferably one with a PBL-ish or at least integrated curriculum. It doesn't have to be top anything, just have a decent reputation so I'll be able to be as competitive as other applicants when it comes time to look for residencies (i.e. not known as a "joke" school). I wouldn't take the risk if my chance of getting accepted at either is unrealistically low.

I know that the app process is extremely expensive, so I want to do it right.. the only problem is, both options are ridiculously expensive (apply now, then have to reapply later if I don't get in; OR go the SMP route and spend all that money there, then apply and spend a ton of money - except maybe I'll have a better shot at getting into much better schools at that point).

And I don't know if I'd be able to produce the documentation to back me up because the health professional I'd been seeing at school retired last spring, I guess I could check if the school has a record of everything?

Finally, re: MS in Neuro.. that's a shame =( I would've done neuro simply because I really, really love the subject, oh well.