Be a pharmacist with NO debt or Dentist with debt. What would you do ?

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I think you should become a rapper instead.

Why won't you have debt after 4 years of pharm school?

Originally Posted by Pelikanz

Why won't you have debt after 4 years of pharm school?

Because it only costs around 20k/year and my parents will be paying for them.

Originally Posted by pk62281

I think you should become a rapper instead.

Serious advice please..

100-200k? OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Originally Posted by AwesomeTeeth

100-200k? OUTRAGEOUS!!!

I know some students take like 300-400K but Dentists don't make much more than a pharmacist right? So why the extra debt?

Allow me to ask you this. What would you rather do?

Originally Posted by Pelikanz

Allow me to ask you this. What would you rather do?

I hate being a pharmacist (worked as a pharmtech at CVS for 3 months and quit, maybe if I worked at walgreens instead It would have been better.)

I want to be a dentist because it pays higher and I get to use my hands to work on patients as opposed to pharmacist who just talks behind the counter.

But the debt really scares me. I don't want to go through all of this schooling just to work like a dog and have 3/4 of my check cut out to pay for loans.

Originally Posted by SN1

I am a junior who is majoring in biology and is expected to graduate next fall of 2013. I am SERIOUSLY thinking about switching to pharmacy since the cost of dental school is just outrageous. Here is my 2 options:

1. Pharmacy
I am now currently enrolled at a 4 year university who has a pharmacy school that normally admits their students via 6 year program. I have done all of the prerequisites to get into the pharmacy school (at CC) but I just finished my 1st semester here at the university and still maintained a good GPA(I even took 1 class that P1 pharmacy students have to take and did well in it). Even though it is hard to get in as a transfer, I feel I that I can do it ( I have a very high GPA, but I still need to take the PCAT). If I decide to stick with this option, I would have to spend fall 2012 and spring 2013 completing the rest of the prereqs(only a bunch of non sci electives) and hopefully matriculate in the fall of 2013. After that its another 4 years. I will also be graduating with zero debt with a pharmD.
The con for this option is that if I go ahead and complete the rest of my prereqs for pharmacy(a bunch of non-science electives). I would be wasting time IF I don't get in since I could be completing upper level science classes instead which are required for my bio degree.

2. Dental
I will be graduating with a bio degree after the fall of 2013 which means that the soonest I can matriculate will be fall of 2014. I will most likely have to take out loans (100-200k).

What would you do? I know you all are pre-dental students but

opportunity cost and earning potential.......... all I'm saying

Originally Posted by SN1

I hate being a pharmacist (worked as a pharmtech at CVS for 3 months and quit, maybe if I worked at walgreens instead It would have been better.)

I want to be a dentist because it pays higher and I get to use my hands to work on patients as opposed to pharmacist who just talks behind the counter.

But the debt really scares me. I don't want to go through all of this schooling just to work like a dog and have 3/4 of my check cut out to pay for loans.

I'm not as knowledgeable on some of these topics as the other members of SDN, but from what I've gathered, very few dentists have a hard time paying back loans and living a better than average lifestyle. That being said, if money is your motivating factor you'd probably be better off going the Pharmacy route. I'm not sure what dental school you're interested in going too, but tuition costs for the dental school I'm attending were released today and I'm looking to be about 300K in debt by the time i graduate. It's a hard pill to swallow, but I'm sure I'll be able to pay that back and live comfortably. It will just take several years of living responsibly and doing what I have to do to get rid of the debt I have taken on. At the end of the day though, I'll be doing what I wanted to do and that's what matters....right?

[QUOTE=Pelikanz;12503423]I'm not as knowledgeable on some of these topics as the other members of SDN, but from what I've gathered, very few dentists have a hard time paying back loans and living a better than average lifestyle. That being said, if money is your motivating factor you'd probably be better off going the Pharmacy route. I'm not sure what dental school you're interested in going too, but tuition costs for the dental school I'm attending were released today and I'm looking to be about 300K in debt by the time i graduate. It's a hard pill to swallow, but I'm sure I'll be able to pay that back and live comfortably. It will just take several years of living responsibly and doing what I have to do to get rid of the debt I have taken on. At the end of the day though, I'll be doing what I wanted to do

Originally Posted by SN1

The problem is that I don't know for sure if I am guaranteed to get into my state school (NJ). I most likely have to apply to some OOS and private school which costs can easily rack up to 60-70k a year for tuition alone. Do these students take into consideration when taking that much loans? 3-400k of debt? what about the interests? I am gonna be honest here but money is one of my motivations.
Also living comfortably to me is to have at least 3-4k/month left after all expenses(student loan, mortgage, car, utilities, etc).

I'm going to an OOS public school and I have considered my options. I could have applied again this year to my state school and had a decent shot of getting in, but I had to take into account the income I'd lose from waiting around. I felt it was better to take the acceptance I received (and was very grateful for) than try again for something that wasn't a guarantee. I'll be honest, 300K worth of debt is no joke. Think of all the things that could be bought with that money. However, it's being put towards a great education for a stable career (hopefully). That being said, everyone's different. Some people will think I'm an idiot for taking out that much and they might be right haha. If you need 3-4k after all of your monthly expenses, I suggest you go pharmacy. If your parents can take care of the loans, that's awesome. You can start making money right away and live the way you want. Being a dentist though, you're going to want to pay those loans back as soon as possible and I don't think you'll have that kind of extra money sitting around for your first several years out of school. Even if you did, it'd be wise to put that toward loan repayment. Interest doesn't slow down or stop for anyone :P

Originally Posted by SN1

I am a junior who is majoring in biology and is expected to graduate next fall of 2013. I am SERIOUSLY thinking about switching to pharmacy since the cost of dental school is just outrageous. Here is my 2 options:

1. Pharmacy
I am now currently enrolled at a 4 year university who has a pharmacy school that normally admits their students via 6 year program. I have done all of the prerequisites to get into the pharmacy school (at CC) but I just finished my 1st semester here at the university and still maintained a good GPA(I even took 1 class that P1 pharmacy students have to take and did well in it). Even though it is hard to get in as a transfer, I feel I that I can do it ( I have a very high GPA, but I still need to take the PCAT). If I decide to stick with this option, I would have to spend fall 2012 and spring 2013 completing the rest of the prereqs(only a bunch of non sci electives) and hopefully matriculate in the fall of 2013. After that its another 4 years. I will also be graduating with zero debt with a pharmD.
The con for this option is that if I go ahead and complete the rest of my prereqs for pharmacy(a bunch of non-science electives). I would be wasting time IF I don't get in since I could be completing upper level science classes instead which are required for my bio degree.

2. Dental
I will be graduating with a bio degree after the fall of 2013 which means that the soonest I can matriculate will be fall of 2014. I will most likely have to take out loans (100-200k).

What would you do? I know you all are pre-dental students but

That's ridiculous. Choosing what you'll do for the rest of my life based on how long you'll pay your school loans...

You need to learn more about yourself and about these careers. There really shouldn't be much of a decision between these two if you actually do some research and some shadowing as there isn't much in common.

If the military doesn't scare you away, you could always look into the HPSP. That's what I'd like to do.

Dentist with massive debt.
I'd rather do something I'll enjoy for the rest of my life than do something that I (seemingly will) dislike just because of money. (I was actually debating on becoming an artist one time, but dental seemed like a more stable job, and since it also seemed interesting, I went for it).
I feel I was made to be a dentist. After shadowing, that has been confirmed and I see myself doing what they do on a daily basis. Haven't shadowed a pharmacist, so I can't completely reject it, but from what I've seen, it doesn't seem like something I would want to do for the rest of my life...

Originally Posted by Stacker

That's ridiculous. Choosing what you'll do for the rest of my life based on how long you'll pay your school loans...

Sorry but I don't think that is ridiculous. Loans should be one if NOT the determining factor. You can say that but wait until you are faced with 3-400k worth of loans.

2 completely different things. If you're worried about the money, you're not serious about your goals in life. Everyone struggles with debts when they first start. Example, I know someone who purchased a million dollar + business. He didn't buy it cash, he took out loans... As you know 1 million loans is much more expensive than a quarter million to a half million(dental school). He makes about 15k - 20k a month from that business... If a dentist can make 8 - 10k a month, I'm pretty sure they can pay off the debt.

A friend of mine just got admitted to 5 out of 9 schools she applied to... WITHOUT a degree. So it sounds like you are very concerned about money so think about what she did. Saved one year of undergrad tuition and pharm school is 3 years I think, correct me if I'm wrong. You posted that pharm school is 20K so there you go. But you have to remember money is money. You won't have it when you die and sure 200k in debt sucks but it will be just a payment. I think the lifestyle of a dentist is much more rewarding, people are a lot happier when their teeth look great compared to picking up drugs.....well on the other hand people love drugs lol. Best of luck on which you decide my friend!!!

Originally Posted by SN1

Sorry but I don't think that is ridiculous. Loans should be one if NOT the determining factor. You can say that but wait until you are faced with 3-400k worth of loans.

Really??? Yeah, 300K in loans sounds like a real B, but twist your words around: just wait until you have to go to a job that you hate every day for the rest of your working life.

Seriously, you should REALLY rethink your question.

Originally Posted by Davermz450

A friend of mine just got admitted to 5 out of 9 schools she applied to... WITHOUT a degree. So it sounds like you are very concerned about money so think about what she did. Saved one year of undergrad tuition and pharm school is 3 years I think, correct me if I'm wrong. You posted that pharm school is 20K so there you go. But you have to remember money is money. You won't have it when you die and sure 200k in debt sucks but it will be just a payment. I think the lifestyle of a dentist is much more rewarding, people are a lot happier when their teeth look great compared to picking up drugs.....well on the other hand people love drugs lol. Best of luck on which you decide my friend!!!

That's exactly why I am still deciding. I would rather work with teeth and I enjoy making them look great. I also know that in the long run, I would probably be making more money or even specialize.

OK. Let say I graduate with 300K debt. How much would I be paying including interest and for how long? 20? 30 years? Thats ridiculously long

Originally Posted by SN1

OK. Let say I graduate with 300K debt. How much would I be paying including interest and for how long? 20? 30 years? Thats ridiculously long

1500-2k month probably. Not all pharmacists work retail...there are some who do clinical, academic or pharma/industrial (industrial pays pretty + good benefits). I have a friend who works at one of the bigger pharma companies and is loving his 20s and paycheck and low student debt.

Originally Posted by SN1

Sorry but I don't think that is ridiculous. Loans should be one if NOT the determining factor. You can say that but wait until you are faced with 3-400k worth of loans.

No, loans should not be the determining factor of what career you chose. You are not thinking this through. Debt should be a determining factor of what school you attend, not what you do for the rest of your life.

Person 1: "Hi what do you do for a living?"

You: "Oh I work at Giant!"

Person 1: *Thinks to his or herself, "ROFL socks, this guy works at Giant! Probably as a bagger!"

You: "Yeah I'm a pharmacist there."

Person 1: *Thinks to his or herself, "LOL that's even worse!"

Just kidding! Go to pharmacy school if you love it.

You're a recipe for disaster. If you don't go into either profession with at least a little bit of passion you'll be miserable. As a pharmacist you'll be pushing around pills all day, as a dentist you'll be in mouths all day. Money is only part of the equation....hopefully you realize that sooner rather than later.

So little time to think for me lol. Gotta take the dat/pact this summer and change my schedule around.

Originally Posted by timwatley

You're a recipe for disaster. If you don't go into either profession with at least a little bit of passion you'll be miserable. As a pharmacist you'll be pushing around pills all day, as a dentist you'll be in mouths all day. Money is only part of the equation....hopefully you realize that sooner rather than later.

Lol that's what I'm afraid of too. Going to work feeling miserable. I do have passion for dentistry but again the loans are just scary.

Originally Posted by sacapuntas

you need to learn more about yourself and about these careers. There really shouldn't be much of a decision between these two if you actually do some research and some shadowing as there isn't much in common.

+1

Originally Posted by timwatley

you're a recipe for disaster. If you don't go into either profession with at least a little bit of passion you'll be miserable. As a pharmacist you'll be pushing around pills all day, as a dentist you'll be in mouths all day. Money is only part of the equation....hopefully you realize that sooner rather than later.

+1

Take a sabbatical. At the present, you have the maturity for neither.

Originally Posted by doc toothache

Take a sabbatical. At the present, you have the maturity for neither.

Im such a great troll

Originally Posted by SN1

Sorry but I don't think that is ridiculous. Loans should be one if NOT the determining factor. You can say that but wait until you are faced with 3-400k worth of loans.

Yes, student loans should be the #1 determining factor. I hope my 2 young kids (who are 7 and 9) will think like you and will be just as responsible as you are right now. If your parents can afford to pay ~$80k ($20k per year....as you said on your earlier post) for your education and you really want to be a dentist, then you should go for dentistry. There is a huge difference between $320k in debt and $400k in debt.

There are downsides of being a dentist as well. Here are just a few:

- Back pain and sore hands from sitting and working long hours
- When you work for a dental chain or for a busy private office, you have to deal with rude office managers and assistants. Jam-packed schedule….no break, no time to eat lunch.
- Dealing with the PITA patients who have unrealistic expectation. Dealing with dental phobic and medically compromised patients.
- Dealing with insurance companies that try to avoid paying you. Low insurance reimbursement.
- High overhead. Dental equipments are expensive. You will need about $200-300k to set up an office….and there is no guarantee that you will succeed.
- Fierce competition among dentists due to the opening of new dental schools.

Originally Posted by charlestweed

Yes, student loans should be the #1 determining factor. I hope my 2 young kids (who are 7 and 9) will think like you and will be just as responsible as you are right now. If your parents can afford to pay ~$80k ($20k per year....as you said on your earlier post) for your education and you really want to be a dentist, then you should go for dentistry. There is a huge difference between $320k in debt and $400k in debt.

There are downsides of being a dentist as well. Here are just a few:

- Back pain and sore hands from sitting and working long hours
- When you work for a dental chain or for a busy private office, you have to deal with rude office managers and assistants. Jam-packed schedule….no break, no time to eat lunch.
- Dealing with the PITA patients who have unrealistic expectation. Dealing with dental phobic and medically compromised patients.
- Dealing with insurance companies that try to avoid paying you. Low insurance reimbursement.
- High overhead. Dental equipments are expensive. You will need about $200-300k to set up an office….and there is no guarantee that you will succeed.
- Fierce competition among dentists due to the opening of new dental schools.

This post goes to show that just because one is a dentist, doesn't mean they have all the answers.

Originally Posted by SN1

Im such a great troll

Case in point on the level of maturity.

My cousin's a pharmacist, and no offense to those folks, but I don't envy her at all. It seems like it would be an interesting endeavor for a little while, but I can see myself becoming bored of it very quickly. Way back when I worked at Costco, I still wouldn't have traded jobs with the pharmacists and they made probably five times what I did...

Originally Posted by charlestweed

Yes, student loans should be the #1 determining factor. I hope my 2 young kids (who are 7 and 9) will think like you and will be just as responsible as you are right now. If your parents can afford to pay ~$80k ($20k per year....as you said on your earlier post) for your education and you really want to be a dentist, then you should go for dentistry. There is a huge difference between $320k in debt and $400k in debt.

There's also a huge difference between say $100k - $110k income and $150k - $160k.

There are downsides of being a dentist as well. Here are just a few:

- Back pain and sore hands from sitting and working long hours
- When you work for a dental chain or for a busy private office, you have to deal with rude office managers and assistants. Jam-packed schedule….no break, no time to eat lunch.
- Dealing with the PITA patients who have unrealistic expectation. Dealing with dental phobic and medically compromised patients.
- Dealing with insurance companies that try to avoid paying you. Low insurance reimbursement.
- High overhead. Dental equipments are expensive. You will need about $200-300k to set up an office….and there is no guarantee that you will succeed.
- Fierce competition among dentists due to the opening of new dental schools.

Many of those things are true of jobs which pay just above minimum wage, one would hope that a decent salary and lifestyle should offset those negatives quite easily. Also, pharmacists have their own share of undesirable working conditions.

1. regardless of debt, both PharmD and DMD can live comfortably and do pretty much what they want. (exceptions: having a private jet, etc) Pharm Ds have much less loan yet DMDs' income potential is much higher. (even 400k can be doable if you get fam support or scholarship)

2. choose whatever you like. both stressful 4 yrs of education. PCAT is similar to DAT. both professions have pros and cons just like any other job.

3. If you don't know how much monthly payments are for loans, do your hw first. don't let your fear of unknown makes the decision for u!

4. shadow. if you're still not sure, take a semester or yr off to figure out what you really want. There are a lot of applicants who are doing post-bacc, maters, working while studying, or studying while raising a family. they know what they want and have been working incredibly hard (hats off to you). Anyways, best luck

Originally Posted by Cello

My cousin's a pharmacist, and no offense to those folks, but I don't envy her at all. It seems like it would be an interesting endeavor for a little while, but I can see myself becoming bored of it very quickly. Way back when I worked at Costco, I still wouldn't have traded jobs with the pharmacists and they made probably five times what I did...

I agree with you that dentistry is a much better profession. I even encourage my niece, whose mom is a pharmacist, to pursue dentistry. I just don’t think borrowing $400k for a DDS degree is worth it. The reason I still tell my own kids and my niece to pursue dentistry is I know neither my kids nor my niece will have to borrow that much for their education.

Originally Posted by Cello

There's also a huge difference between say $100k - $110k income and $150k - $160k.

Yes, there is a huge difference. But in order to make $40-50k more per year, one may have to work in a more stressful environment such as working for a busy dental chain instead of working at a slow-paced private practice. To make $40-50k more, one may have to work 6 days week and misses all of his/her kid’s soccer matches. Wouldn’t be nicer to owe less in student loan so you don’t have to work as hard and have more time for your family? So you can save money to set up your own practice some day?

It wasn’t our great income (which was many times more than $120k a year) that helped us pay off our $450k student loans in 5 years. We were just very lucky that we bought two of our houses at the right time and sold them at the right time.

You will later see that paying back the student loans is just a small part. We also have plan to save enough money for our kids’ education and for our own retirement. I don’t want to end up like many 70-80 yo orthodontists who can’t retire because of their bad financial planning.

With $400k in student loans, it will be hard for a dentist to retire comfortably at 65.

I suppose it would depend upon your individual circumstances. If you're married, and your spouse works, then I imagine that would make things much easier. $400k burden is a lot of money, especially if it requires that you make $60k per year rather than $150k per year as a result of servicing your debts. But, I have been living on $40k per year or less for three years now and am perfectly happy. So, I figure, living like that to pay off the loans would be worth it in the end, especially if it meant that my wife and I could be so fortunate as to pay off our loans within 5 years like you and yours did!

Sage advice.

Originally Posted by charlestweed

I agree with you that dentistry is a much better profession. I even encourage my niece, whose mom is a pharmacist, to pursue dentistry. I just don’t think borrowing $400k for a DDS degree is worth it. The reason I still tell my own kids and my niece to pursue dentistry is I know neither my kids nor my niece will have to borrow that much for their education.


Yes, there is a huge difference. But in order to make $40-50k more per year, one may have to work in a more stressful environment such as working for a busy dental chain instead of working at a slow-paced private practice. To make $40-50k more, one may have to work 6 days week and misses all of his/her kid’s soccer matches. Wouldn’t be nicer to owe less in student loan so you don’t have to work as hard and have more time for your family? So you can save money to set up your own practice some day?

It wasn’t our great income (which was many times more than $120k a year) that helped us pay off our $450k student loans in 5 years. We were just very lucky that we bought two of our houses at the right time and sold them at the right time.

You will later see that paying back the student loans is just a small part. We also have plan to save enough money for our kids’ education and for our own retirement. I don’t want to end up like many 70-80 yo orthodontists who can’t retire because of their bad financial planning.

With $400k in student loans, it will be hard for a dentist to retire comfortably at 65.

OP: If you're married and your spouse is working you should not need to take out the full amount in loans because they can cover your guys' cost of living. I think if all you have to pay is tuition and fees you could graduate with alot less debt and then move to an area that offers repayment via national health @ ~30k/yr plus a competitive salary.

Also - think about the military as an option.

You can join a program with the U.S. army that will also cover full tuition, provide you with a $20,000 cheque sign on fee and slightly over $2,000 a month with benefits and bonuses during holidays. The flip-side is that you must work four years as a dentist for the army upon graduating, starting at a base salary of about $58,000 a year annually and increasing thereafter.

Why dentistry and not pharmacy? Less hours, more money, more freedom.

Originally Posted by Frank22

You can join a program with the U.S. army that will also cover full tuition, provide you with a $20,000 cheque sign on fee and slightly over $2,000 a month with benefits and bonuses during holidays. The flip-side is that you must work four years as a dentist for the army upon graduating, starting at a base salary of about $58,000 a year annually and increasing thereafter.

Why dentistry and not pharmacy? Less hours, more money, more freedom.

When you agree to join this army program, will you be sent outside of the US? I am just scared if I will have to be at places where there is a war, etc. To be honest, that option isn't that bad. Where I can find more info about this program Thank you.

Originally Posted by SN1

When you agree to join this army program, will you be sent outside of the US? I am just scared if I will have to be at places where there is a war, etc. To be honest, that option isn't that bad. Where I can find more info about this program Thank you.

Yes, you may be deployed but dentists are generally put into safe situations. Read the military sub-forum of dentistry for more information.

OP: dentistry hands down. I was actually in a similar position...I couldn't decide between pharmacy and dentistry..and it was the debt that scared me the most. It came to me that if I really wanted to be a pharmacist, I wouldn't have considered dentistry so seriously in the first place. And once I started volunteering, I couldn't really stop. I wish I could fill my entire week with volunteering at a dental office...
When I decided to pursue dentistry only, everything clicked into place. It was perfect, and this feels right. I can't really explain..not well anyway. It feels like it's meant to be.

What can I say? When you know, you know.

You said you don't like being a pharmacist yet you'd rather do that b/c of earning potential and less loan debt? You'd rather be a dentist b/c "the pay is higher?" Honestly, that kind of attitude disgusts me.

Why are you even looking into the health profession if you care more about money than the profession itself? There are hundreds of stable careers out there that require less debt and provide equitable salary to dentistry. Hell, be a nurse anesthetist if you want an easy job that pays well.

As Plato said, "The physician of whom you were just speaking, is he a moneymaker, a collector of fees, or a healer of the sick?"

Be a dentist to be a dentist, debt and all. Or you can choose an unfulfilling career and discover the hard way that money doesn't buy you happiness.

You wanted serious advice? There it is.

Originally Posted by BU2012

You said you don't like being a pharmacist yet you'd rather do that b/c of earning potential and less loan debt? You'd rather be a dentist b/c "the pay is higher?" Honestly, that kind of attitude disgusts me.

Why are you even looking into the health profession if you care more about money than the profession itself? There are hundreds of stable careers out there that require less debt and provide equitable salary to dentistry. Hell, be a nurse anesthetist if you want an easy job that pays well.

As Plato said, "The physician of whom you were just speaking, is he a moneymaker, a collector of fees, or a healer of the sick?"

Be a dentist to be a dentist, debt and all. Or you can choose an unfulfilling career and discover the hard way that money doesn't buy you happiness.

You wanted serious advice? There it is.

Sage mode advice.

go to pharmacy. you'll be less stressed and make a decent living as well.

Originally Posted by destinedsirius

go to pharmacy. you'll be less stressed and make a decent living as well.

If you can find a job!!

Pharmacy is an excellent profession, but it's been their lament as of late that pharmacy is saturated. I mean, I'm sure that there are ways to make your CV stick out so that you get the job, but the material's entirely too dense to half-ass it, to put it bluntly.

If you don't know if you'd like it, I'd suggest shadowing. Pharmacy isn't limited to CVS, feel free to look in hospitals and pharmacology labs too.

If you'll be happy in pharmacy, do pharmacy. If you won't, then go the dentist route. You can't get the years back that you devote to either, so keep this in mind.

[QUOTE=Conflagration;12513076 You can't get the years back that you devote to either, so keep this in mind.[/QUOTE]


Apparently your car doesn't get up to 88 MPH!!.. jk