D.P.M. or go for the D.O.

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Hey everyone,
So I graduated college with a 3.4 (minus the first year it would be a 3.6) gpa and got a 27M mcat. I had my heart set on becoming a podiatrist and have lots of knowledge on the field, but I believe I can gain acceptance to an osteopathic school especially if I apply early. For me, I like the lifestyle of a pod and I would enjoy implementing the broad ranges of treatments from surgeries, dermatology, radiology, wound care, etc. I haven't really researched enough about DO and would like to get opinions from people here.

Right now my plan is to apply to podiatry schools now since I have everything I need already and shadow a DO to gain a better understanding. If I really like it I'll just take an extra year off school.

So what are your thoughts? If you could opt for a life as a DO would you do it? Any advantages you see other than a probable higher income and what most view as a more "prestigious" field?

You should really only apply to podiatry school if you have NO DOUBTS about it. If you are not so sure about podiatry and you end up doing it, just know this is something you are going to be putting A LOT of work into and as a career youll be doing it for the rest of your life. The reason I am going into Podiatry (hopefully, if I gain acceptance for fall of 2013), I love the variety of things you can do, as you mentioned, surgeries, dermatology, radiology, wound care, etc. The things with MD/DO, if you want to do surgery generally it IS VERY DIFFICULT to gain acceptance into a surgical residency, whereas, with Podiatry, all residencies have some sort of surgery involved.

It should go without saying that I truly like the field and I don't expect it to be a walk in the park by any means. I am fully prepared for that. I just started contemplating the benefits being an osteopathic doctor would have over a podiatrist. Thanks for your response though.

This is going to be your career/life. If you have any doubts, you owe it to yourself to take time and be sure.

Uh you're right. What a hard decision it's going to be!

My 2 cents: if you aren't absolutely sure you want to be a DPM then do one of two things: go for the DO or wait and think it out. Take a vaction, more classes etc. No rush for such a big decision.

The biggest thing about allo/osteo is that you have the option of choosing what specialty's residency you want to pursue. Few people will end up in the exact specialty they thought they would (unless they do well enough to be competitive for the one they want). If you want to do orthopedic surgery (which I suppose is the specialty that shares the most in common with podiatry) then you better be a rockstar in DO school and kill your boards because it's a very hard track to land, especially as a DO (vs an MD student). Obviously with podiatry you'll be locked in to podiatry and you can't change your mind midway if you want to be another type of doctor. You don't want to decide halfway through school that you really want to be an Internal Medicine doc or a Pediatrician. Best to get those doubts out of your system now.

As far as osteopathy....lettuce be real: you will learn osteopathic manipulation methods (OMM) in your first two years of DO school, then you will most likely not use it again during residency and beyond. So in the long term, that difference is not really something to worry about.

There are doctors that use OMM in their daily practice of medicine. My wife's gynocologist has made a real name for himself around these parts for his use of it to help severe cramps and things like that which I've been made to understand is a growing trend with osteopaths. That's all second\third hand of course so not sure on the validity.

Originally Posted by fivescrew

There are doctors that use OMM in their daily practice of medicine. My wife's gynocologist has made a real name for himself around these parts for his use of it to help severe cramps and things like that which I've been made to understand is a growing trend with osteopaths. That's all second\third hand of course so not sure on the validity.

Yeah...exceptions and anecdotal stories aside....I promise you that an overwhelming majority are not like that. Almost all DO's take the USMLE's in addition to their COMLEX boards so they can apply for the more sought after allopathic residencies (where they won't be doing OMM).

You are right but still it's an important distinction between the two degrees that shouldn't be dismissed off hand as hurdle to get over and nothing more in my opinion.

Why did you want to be a DPM in the first place?

Do you like feet or something?

A little part of me will always want the prestige of an MD or DO just for my ego's sake. My hobbies have always involved doing something with my hands, be it arts/crafts, or computer gaming, and I've shadowed around enough to know that I want to be using my hands in my profession. I chose podiatry for the security, knowing that I will be trained as a surgeon and foot care specialist which includes minor in-office procedures which also involves practicing with my hands.

I feel you have your sights set on podiatry, but a part of you still seek prestige. I assure you, with everything else in life, hard work will bring you prestige. With podiatry, the sky is the limit.

Originally Posted by MindtheGlottis

Hey everyone,
So I graduated college with a 3.4 (minus the first year it would be a 3.6) gpa and got a 27M mcat. I had my heart set on becoming a podiatrist and have lots of knowledge on the field, but I believe I can gain acceptance to an osteopathic school especially if I apply early. For me, I like the lifestyle of a pod and I would enjoy implementing the broad ranges of treatments from surgeries, dermatology, radiology, wound care, etc. I haven't really researched enough about DO and would like to get opinions from people here.

Right now my plan is to apply to podiatry schools now since I have everything I need already and shadow a DO to gain a better understanding. If I really like it I'll just take an extra year off school.

So what are your thoughts? If you could opt for a life as a DO would you do it? Any advantages you see other than a probable higher income and what most view as a more "prestigious" field?

Originally Posted by AttackNME

I feel you have your sights set on podiatry, but a part of you still seek prestige. I assure you, with everything else in life, hard work will bring you prestige. With podiatry, the sky is the limit.

I never took you for an artsie-fartsie.

Originally Posted by MindtheGlottis

So what are your thoughts? If you could opt for a life as a DO would you do it? Any advantages you see other than a probable higher income and what most view as a more "prestigious" field?

I personally would not opt for DO over podiatry. I think podiatry is a diamond in the rough and what you see is what you get. I could see myself doing another specialty (OB/gyn), but there is no guarantee that you will match with what you want, especially if you are going for a more competitive specialty. And to end up in something that is not your first choice, would be weird for me.

As far as the pay, I have not researched DO much, except to poke around on SDN, but I feel like podiatry the better income potential overall. This is especially true if most DO's end up in FP and the really lucrative specialties are very difficult for DO's to land. Prestige... again, I'm not sure outside of the academic bubble if the public would perceive a FP DO more prestigious than a DPM? Typically a 'surgeon' is seen as more prestigious in the public eye than a FP, which as we know a lot of DO's end up. I also have yet to meet someone who is not involved in medicine who really knows what a DO is compared to MD, yet most people seem familiar with or have been to a podiatrist.

This is just my experience, but I have found it interesting the look I get when I mention DO. I've only done this when I've been asked 'why not MD?' and I've had to explain that I would not have gone MD anyways, but DO.....and then the educating begins.

I think the biggest advantage of DO to podiatry is the fact that you do have options. With podiatry, there is no changing your specialty once you are in. Other than that, I think it's hard to compare because your lifestyle could be so different as a DO depending on what you end up doing.

It sounds like you have a good grasp about podiatry, but there is that little DO bug in your ear that has put some doubt as to which would be best for you. You said you were going to shadow and even take a year off, if necessary, which says a lot about your commitment to make the right decision.

lol, the last line was borrowed from Dr Harkless during my interview with him at Western U. He's a very inspiring and positive man

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

I never took you for an artsie-fartsie.

Originally Posted by AttackNME

A little part of me will always want the prestige of an MD or DO just for my ego's sake. My hobbies have always involved doing something with my hands, be it arts/crafts, or computer gaming, and I've shadowed around enough to know that I want to be using my hands in my profession. I chose podiatry for the security, knowing that I will be trained as a surgeon and foot care specialist which includes minor in-office procedures which also involves practicing with my hands.

I feel you have your sights set on podiatry, but a part of you still seek prestige. I assure you, with everything else in life, hard work will bring you prestige. With podiatry, the sky is the limit.

Originally Posted by flyhi

I personally would not opt for DO over podiatry. I think podiatry is a diamond in the rough and what you see is what you get. I could see myself doing another specialty (OB/gyn), but there is no guarantee that you will match with what you want, especially if you are going for a more competitive specialty. And to end up in something that is not your first choice, would be weird for me.

As far as the pay, I have not researched DO much, except to poke around on SDN, but I feel like podiatry the better income potential overall. This is especially true if most DO's end up in FP and the really lucrative specialties are very difficult for DO's to land. Prestige... again, I'm not sure outside of the academic bubble if the public would perceive a FP DO more prestigious than a DPM? Typically a 'surgeon' is seen as more prestigious in the public eye than a FP, which as we know a lot of DO's end up. I also have yet to meet someone who is not involved in medicine who really knows what a DO is compared to MD, yet most people seem familiar with or have been to a podiatrist.

This is just my experience, but I have found it interesting the look I get when I mention DO. I've only done this when I've been asked 'why not MD?' and I've had to explain that I would not have gone MD anyways, but DO.....and then the educating begins.

I think the biggest advantage of DO to podiatry is the fact that you do have options. There is no changing your specialty once you are in. Other than that, I think it's hard to compare because your lifestyle could be so different as a DO depending on what you end up doing.

It sounds like you have a good grasp about podiatry, but there is that little DO bug in your ear that has put some doubt as to which would be best for you. You said you were going to shadow and even take a year off, if necessary, which says a lot about your commitment to make the right decision.

Both of you hit the nail on the head on how I'm feeling about this decision. Seems like you both might have had similar contemplations before applying to schools. I'm starting to side with podiatry because I too don't like not knowing what specialty I will be practicing for a large portion of my life. To think of being in FM does not sound appealing to me. The prestige might be something to think about, but just because I can get into a DO school, doesn't make it the right decision.

I really appreciate everyone's insights and I still plan on shadowing a DO to ensure I don't have something to regret for the rest of my life. I'll make a point to follow my gut and try to dismiss the doubts my brain keeps feeding me about prestige and the possible financial benefits that might accompany a DO career. I was never one to care for those things anyway, but damn my brain doesn't shut up!

In any field there will be prestige, and there will be people who think you're lesser than them. You can only do so much to change the views of other people.

Take the best mechanic you can imagine; a beast of a technician that works on Ferrari's all day. He still might deal with douchebag millionaires on a daily basis that think he's gum on a shoe.

This sort of thing isn't less prevalent in MD/DOs, I don't think...you can find threads throughout this forum about how one specialty is "less of a real MD" than others. (Everyone knows dermatologists are...ahem...lesser ;-))

What's the solution? Find your own self worth and be a dominant force in whatever field you choose. It doesn't really matter what you end up doing with your life, the overall course is the same for everyone. You live, then you die. It's all about finding contentment in what you're doing, and for me a lot of that comes from being especially good at the things I work hardest in.

Lebron James may be one of the best basketball players that's ever lived, but let's see what sort of MCAT score he gets.

Find something you would enjoy doing, and do it. Other people be damned. As the great Jimi Hendrix once said, "I'm the one who's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to."

Caring too much about what other people think will cause problems, regardless of what field you choose. Best bet is to just be a kick ass "whatever".

You have a good point bobdolerson, albeit a bit dark. "You live, then you DIE!" Haha, but you are right. Sometimes I and probably other people forget to define our own self worth and let other people's opinion blur our values. I just feel podiatry garners more of that negative reaction, "ohh you want to work with feet?! Why!?!" compared to other medical fields. Then again, it's not a field for everybody and I'm glad it's not.

Podiatry seems like a constant uphill battle to explain your choice to other people. Someone says I want to be an MD and gets congratulated. Same person wants to be a pod and gets questioned, why feet? You like feet or something, hehehe

I'm not saying this is how every reaction is or that it's something I'll experience my whole medical career (I hope not when I actually become a dr), but it's the part of the reason I'm hesitating towards DO. Ultimately, I'll be happy if I can bring smiles and relief to many people throughout my life. Isn't that the point of life anyway?

Originally Posted by MindtheGlottis

You have a good point bobdolerson, albeit a bit dark. "You live, then you DIE!" Haha, but you are right. Sometimes I and probably other people forget to define our own self worth and let other people's opinion blur our values. I just feel podiatry garners more of that negative reaction, "ohh you want to work with feet?! Why!?!" compared to other medical fields. Then again, it's not a field for everybody and I'm glad it's not.

Podiatry seems like a constant uphill battle to explain your choice to other people. Someone says I want to be an MD and gets congratulated. Same person wants to be a pod and gets questioned, why feet? You like feet or something, hehehe

I'm not saying this is how every reaction is or that it's something I'll experience my whole medical career (I hope not when I actually become a dr), but it's the part of the reason I'm hesitating towards DO. Ultimately, I'll be happy if I can bring smiles and relief to many people throughout my life. Isn't that the point of life anyway?

If you are hesistant about DPM, because you don't want to be questioned, then you might as well go DO. You will be questioned by others no matter how mainstream podiatry becomes. I'm simply a student but it happens to me on a regular basis. It never bothered me in the first place, since I do enjoy what I'm working towards but I'm NOT oblivious that it happens. I was working in the clinic last week and my patient was actually a graduate student in one of the other programs at my school. The first thing the patient says to me is "do you guys simply study the foot? Do you have to know what goes on in the rest of the body?" I explained our education and training and then carried on with my business.

It's easier to just tell people you have a foot fetish and bask in their awkwardness.

I always wonder if OB/GYNs get the same kinds of questions...

Originally Posted by bobdolerson

It's easier to just tell people you have a foot fetish and bask in their awkwardness.

I always wonder if OB/GYNs get the same kinds of questions...

i kind of wonder the same thing about proctologists lol

Not Relevant to Thread: Everytime i see "MindTheGlottis" username out of the corner of my eye I see "GimlisonofGloin" and I get terribly spooked! Anyone else??! We need a good troll like him back for a while....

OP, how about a dropping a post in the pre-osteo forums? The fact that you came to DPM thread to ask this question without posting at all in the DO section says something about the answer you want to hear.

Prestige? That comes from hard work. Prestige based on your title is superficial. Get over what other people think about this. (BTW the whole "the public doesn't know what a DO is" thing is so overblown, by premeds, basic-science yrs med students and non-MD/DO, and should not be a reason to avoid the pursuit of becoming a physician. If you don't want it enough, then this minor inconvenience will keep you from this path; same goes for the DPM path).

And for any assumptions made regarding the income potential of a DO, your best bet is a quick search of average salaries in your general area of interest. (DO's do not all end up in FP; ~50% will end up in primary care, but this includes internal medicine as well. That said the average FP salary is ~180K in most places of the country, and FP is a speciality where loan forgiveness is general applicable. Oh and you can find a job just about anywhere in the US, so it's not exactly picking from the leftovers of the healthcare food chain. Take a trip on over to the FP forums and pick their brains with questions if you're interested).

I agree with the above poster who mentioned how most students will change their mind about their field of interest. I would personally choose the path that allows exploration of the various fields and offered different options should my interests pull me in another direction. (Such a scenario is far from the exception).

Lastly, to basically reiterate what I mentioned earlier, if you want information about the DO path you will find more accurate information from those on that path already. Go drop a thread in that realm if you want a DO take on the DO path. Whichever choice you make, make sure it's the one that is true for you. Best of luck.

Originally Posted by bobdolerson

Caring too much about what other people think will cause problems, regardless of what field you choose. Best bet is to just be a kick ass "whatever".

Amen to that! Well said.

Originally Posted by Dharma

Amen to that! Well said.

Well...I'm not so sure about that.

When starting out and as you progress in your chosen field, you HAVE to care about what others think about you, to a point. Sad, but true. You can be the best _____ in the world, but if you are arrogant about it and get that reputation, good luck finding work. It's a fine balance between being humble and portraying excellence without arrogance. Not so easy sometimes.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Well...I'm not so sure about that.

When starting out and as you progress in your chosen field, you HAVE to care about what others think about you, to a point. Sad, but true. You can be the best _____ in the world, but if you are arrogant about it and get that reputation, good luck finding work. It's a fine balance between being humble and portraying excellence without arrogance. Not so easy sometimes.

I believe bobdolerson said "caring too much about what other people think will cause problems." There was no mention of not caring at all. I think it goes without saying that balance is the goal...

become a DO it will be better for you

It seems I might have overemphasized my feelings regarding prestige and podiatry. These are things I think about, but it's not significant enough to deter me from the field or make me feel bad about my possible choice. I would hope these thoughts I have aren't unique to me. The idea of prestige has sparked some good conversations here that are making me reevaluate my definition of the word. Certainly it's helping me make a decision that is truly right for me by identifying outside influences that should be kept to a minimum.

I'll continue to research osteopathic medicine because I don't know nearly enough as of today.

And to G0dFather, why are you suggesting DO? You're actually a pod student so I'm curious to your reasoning.

I dont know if you shadowed because I refuse to read all the past posts due to laziness, but shadowing both a DO and DPM will give more insight than anyone's words here.

Pay attention to potential earnings while you research both.

Do you want to work with your hands?

I think this is ultimately what it boils down to. The thought process, pathology, etc. between the two is pretty much the same. Remember...podiatry is ultimately a medical specialty. We practice medicine. The biggest factor, IMO, is how we treat patients. Because of the nature of Podiatry, being that it is the foot and ankle, we do a lot of hands on treatments. We do a lot of biomechanical modifications whether that means padding, orthoses, or surgery. We also do a lot of injections, sharp debridement, etc. ~90% of new complaints will be treated by doing something to the patient. In most other medical (non-surgical) specialties, this is not the case. But ultimately the thought process, the anatomy, the pathology, is gonna be comparable between DO and DPM.

The reality is a decent chunk of people who go to a podiatric medical school do so b/c they can't get into an MD or DO program. An equal, if not bigger, reality is that DOs go to osteopathic medical school b/c they can't get into an MD program. I say this is a bigger reality b/c the only things that seperate a DO from an MD is less prestige, a significantly decreased chance at specializing, higher tuition (all DO schools are private) and manipulation (OMM). I highly doubt there are that many people out there who are so interested in OMM that they would sacrifice said benefits to becoming an MD. So if you like podiatry, I would not recommend going DO when you still will have to answer the "why not MD" question your whole life, yet good luck giving a believable answer. At least with podiatry, you can explain it is it's own thing (similar to optometry or dentistry) yet fully integrated into general health care teams in every health care setting (a doctor, surgeon and specialist) with a physician's training of the whole body, which appealed to you. I had a 4.0 and 27 MCAT in undergrad, but I chose podiatry and am not looking back. Forget the whole prestige thing ... it is very subjective if you're not an MD. IMO a podiatric surgeon handling all the lower extremity surgeries in a well-respected orthopedic practice says "success" more than the dime-a-dozen DO family practioner.

Originally Posted by Madura

The reality is a decent chunk of people who go to a podiatric medical school do so b/c they can't get into an MD or DO program. An equal, if not bigger, reality is that DOs go to osteopathic medical school b/c they can't get into an MD program. I say this is a bigger reality b/c the only things that seperate a DO from an MD is less prestige, a significantly decreased chance at specializing, higher tuition (all DO schools are private) and manipulation (OMM). I highly doubt there are that many people out there who are so interested in OMM that they would sacrifice said benefits to becoming an MD. So if you like podiatry, I would not recommend going DO when you still will have to answer the "why not MD" question your whole life, yet good luck giving a believable answer. At least with podiatry, you can explain it is it's own thing (similar to optometry or dentistry) yet fully integrated into general health care teams in every health care setting (a doctor, surgeon and specialist) with a physician's training of the whole body, which appealed to you. I had a 4.0 and 27 MCAT in undergrad, but I chose podiatry and am not looking back. Forget the whole prestige thing ... it is very subjective if you're not an MD. IMO a podiatric surgeon handling all the lower extremity surgeries in a well-respected orthopedic practice says "success" more than the dime-a-dozen DO family practioner.

Excellent post.

Originally Posted by Madura

The reality is a decent chunk of people who go to a podiatric medical school do so b/c they can't get into an MD or DO program.

How sad for us .

IMO a podiatric surgeon handling all the lower extremity surgeries in a well-respected orthopedic practice says "success" more than the dime-a-dozen DO family practioner.

So if you don't end up in an well respected orthopedic practice, you won't consider yourself successful? Interesting definition.

One thing to remember is that every branch of medicine is important. That's my feeling at least. Dime a dozen or not. I worked with a DO Vascular Surgeon who was beyond brilliant. I don't think it mattered to him that he was a DO.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

So if you don't end up in an well respected orthopedic practice, you won't consider yourself successful? Interesting definition.

One thing to remember is that every branch of medicine is important. That's my feeling at least. Dime a dozen or not. I worked with a DO Vascular Surgeon who was beyond brilliant. I don't think it mattered to him that he was a DO.

That isn't my point. My point is that status, especially when comparing DPM to DO, is all subjective and relative, so don't dwell on it to the point that you base your career on it. The vascular surgeon you speak of has my upmost respect, especially being that he beat the odds and landed in a specialty field as a DO. I'm not knocking DOs (my FP is one) but just having DO behind the name doesn't automatically make you more respected than a DPM in my mind. You are judged by your performance.

And no, working in an orthopedic group isn't the only way to judge success in podiatry either. Success is also subjective and personal, but said positions are the most competitive in podiatry at the moment so I used that as an example. And while all of podiatry is important, we cannot deny that surgery is the main appeal for people getting into the profession right now.

MindYourGlottis, you want respect? Imagine the face of the worried mother before you take her child to surgery for an achilles reconstruction. Then imagine the relief in her eyes when you walk back out and say the operation went well and her child is in recovery. Do you think that mother cares that you could have gotten into a DO school because your MCAT was slightly higher than the DPM average but still below that of an MD? No, but she will be forever grateful that you trained hard in the path you chose and helped her child walk again. Of course every area of medicine is important (good point KidsFeet), but I can't imagine getting that kind of reaction out of a mother bringing her child to me for a tetanus shot.

The amount of energy going into distinguishing titles is ridiculous and wasteful. Aren't we all in it to HELP people?

I do agree that the end the letters after your name don't matter, it's what you do with them. However like the OP i am also struggling with DPM vs DO. I have done my research via google so I am not trying to ask annoying questions. I just wanted a little insight. The other day I talked to my friend who is currently in DO school. I was telling him what I think my options are (DO vs DPM vs SMP). I told him how I really want to get into ortho surgery and I would probably have a better chance getting into that type of surgery by going DPM. He agreed with me. However the one thing he told me is that he went into DO school wanting ortho surgery and now he wants neuro surgery. He said the one thing about pod school is that it cuts out ur options and you wont be able to changeur specialty half way through. My question I guess is, for those of you who decided on getting the DPM over DO/MD, how did you know you wouldn't change your mind once u were in pod school?

Originally Posted by Hockeyfan23

I do agree that the end the letters after your name don't matter, it's what you do with them. However like the OP i am also struggling with DPM vs DO. I have done my research via google so I am not trying to ask annoying questions. I just wanted a little insight. The other day I talked to my friend who is currently in DO school. I was telling him what I think my options are (DO vs DPM vs SMP). I told him how I really want to get into ortho surgery and I would probably have a better chance getting into that type of surgery by going DPM. He agreed with me. However the one thing he told me is that he went into DO school wanting ortho surgery and now he wants neuro surgery. He said the one thing about pod school is that it cuts out ur options and you wont be able to changeur specialty half way through. My question I guess is, for those of you who decided on getting the DPM over DO/MD, how did you know you wouldn't change your mind once u were in pod school?

Shadowed multiple specialties to figure out what I wanted. No regrets here.

it ALL depends on the type of lifestyle you want to live and what you want out of a career as a practitioner.

I have spoken to 6 DPMs, 5 in the New York City area and one in Northern Jersey. Some more successful than others. They all told me podiatry is a great profession but their advice to me was to go the MD/DO route if I can. Their reasoning being along the lines of having more options and easier time obtaining hospital privileges.

Just food for thought

Originally Posted by bunion123

I have spoken to 6 DPMs, 5 in the New York City area and one in Northern Jersey. Some more successful than others. They all told me podiatry is a great profession but their advice to me was to go the MD/DO route if I can. Their reasoning being along the lines of having more options and easier time obtaining hospital privileges.

Just food for thought

Sounds like some people don't want competition.

Originally Posted by bunion123

I have spoken to 6 DPMs, 5 in the New York City area and one in Northern Jersey. Some more successful than others. They all told me podiatry is a great profession but their advice to me was to go the MD/DO route if I can. Their reasoning being along the lines of having more options and easier time obtaining hospital privileges.

Just food for thought

But... what if podiatry is what you want to do? Who needs options when you've already found the perfect career!