Typed Harsh Things with "Comments Option" on Comlex, Now Nervous...

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Is something bad going to happen to me now? Can I get in trouble for this? I am actually pretty scared. I really wish I would kept quiet.

I apologize for the typos. I typed this from my phone. I'm starting to think I should maybe take down this comment too. We'll see how long I leave it up. Isn't it telling, however, that I actually fear for my ability to get a liscence as a DO simply for commenting like this?

It doesn't go away. Hello step II and III.

I know comments are read. One of our heme/oncs was giving us a lecture and talked about step I a little bit and said how funny some of the comments are when scores are reviewed. Probably wasn't the proper soapbox, but I don't think you're going to fail because of it.

You're not the first. Don't lose sleep over it.

They may appreciate the honesty, who knows.

Can you comment on the actual exam in other aspects as well? I am taking mine on June 22, and pretty nervous.

deleted

Originally Posted by jumpmanv15

They may appreciate the honesty, who knows.

Can you comment on the actual exam in other aspects as well? I am taking mine on June 22, and pretty nervous.

I sincerely doubt that they will appreciate my honesty. I would be pleasantly STUNNED. I don't want to comment too much on my test because I don't want to give anybody an unfair advantage. What is said in first aid about the focus of the exam was more or less accurate for me. Plus, considering I probably BARELY passed, I'm not the on to ask.

Most people have a problem with cranial. They just view it as a minor inconvenience and move on. It is minor, and inconsequential in the scheme of things. If it helps, think of it as a curious historical artifact. The rest of OMM is useful, as you already know.

Good for you, dude. I don't think they will enjoy it, but I don't think there will be any blowback. If they don't want honest comments, they shouldn't ask for them.

You're not the first...don't worry.

You may even have some old timers on your side:
http://www.jaoa.org/content/112/5/262.full

Originally Posted by J-Rad

You may even have some old timers on your side:
http://www.jaoa.org/content/112/5/262.full

Excellent letter. Thanks for the link.

No one is going to sabotage your COMLEX because you wrote some negative things. You are way to paranoid imo.

Your fine they won't hold it against you... I remember writing some comments myself 2 years ago but they were mostly related to some confusing answer choices. lol I can't actually believe you sat there and called out the whole cranial theory. I just wanted to get the hell out of my exam as fast as I could.

Piece of advice on rotations, might want to keep some of the negative DO comments to yourself. Its your career, sometimes its best to just keep your mouth shut till you are in a position to change things.

I did it for step 2. Said a bunch of stuff that while 100% true, probably went a little over the line in its bluntness calling out the DO Establishment and my creative use of not-quite-but-almost-vulgar language. They read it, and sent me a letter a couple months later that said that my comments were unprofessional, and I was basically put on Double-Secret Probation. They said that any other problems would be treated more seriously in light of this and I had to have a sit-down with my Dean to talk about better ways to vent my frustrations and whatnot. And that was it. Didn't affect my match (which was ACGME) and didn't affect my graduation. I don't recommend doing it for anyone else, because despite some exam-day relief, it was a bit of a pain and obviously my points were lost among the silliness. Instead, keep that chip on your shoulder, work hard, and become a respected physician and then go back and start making noise, you'll be 100% more effective that way.

Originally Posted by TheBlueBlazer

They read it, and sent me a letter a couple months later that said that my comments were unprofessional, and I was basically put on Double-Secret Probation. They said that any other problems would be treated more seriously in light of this and I had to have a sit-down with my Dean to talk about better ways to vent my frustrations and whatnot. And that was it. Didn't affect my match (which was ACGME) and didn't affect my graduation.

Did they tell your dean about your heresy?

Oh yeah, she had a copy of the comments in her hand (which they also had mailed to me). We discussed what in particular probably upset them.

I'd never have the gusto to do that. I wish I could have seen your dean's face.

Originally Posted by TheBlueBlazer

Oh yeah, she had a copy of the comments in her hand (which they also had mailed to me). We discussed what in particular probably upset them.

Dang, helluva warning shot across the bow.

Originally Posted by TheBlueBlazer

I did it for step 2. Said a bunch of stuff that while 100% true, probably went a little over the line in its bluntness calling out the DO Establishment and my creative use of not-quite-but-almost-vulgar language. They read it, and sent me a letter a couple months later that said that my comments were unprofessional, and I was basically put on Double-Secret Probation. They said that any other problems would be treated more seriously in light of this and I had to have a sit-down with my Dean to talk about better ways to vent my frustrations and whatnot. And that was it. Didn't affect my match (which was ACGME) and didn't affect my graduation. I don't recommend doing it for anyone else, because despite some exam-day relief, it was a bit of a pain and obviously my points were lost among the silliness. Instead, keep that chip on your shoulder, work hard, and become a respected physician and then go back and start making noise, you'll be 100% more effective that way.

How far overboard are we talking? I didn't cuss. I wasn't overly sarcastic either. Except for one brief moment where I might have come right out and said that Viola Freeman is a quack who has been prosecuted for missing obvious diagnoses... I think I was more exasperated than anything. I can't believe that they would do that. Like someone said above... if you don't want our honest opinion, THEN DON'T ASK. I took time away from my test to write that stuff. That was from the heart. Even if I was mad, it came from my heart and it came from concern about where Osteopathic Medicine is going in the future.

I think I am probably going to be put on double secret probation too. NICE.

deleted

Originally Posted by MDD DO2014

in case you're interested why I might have written that. scroll down to where it says "disciplinary record."
http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/frymann1.html


or this gem from Quackwatch.org's article on Craniosacral therapy. This upledger guy is supposedly the big shot in craniosacral right now.


The chapter goes on to describe Upledger's care of a four-month-old French baby who was "as floppy as a rag doll." Although the baby had never been exposed to English, Upledger decided to see whether the baby's "Inner Physician" would communicate with him via the craniosacral system:

I requested aloud in English that the craniosacral rhythm stop if the answer to a question was "yes" and not stop if the answer was "no." The rhythm stopped for about ten seconds. I took this as an indication that I was being understood. I then asked if it was possible during this session for the rhythm to stop only in response to my question and not for other reasons, such as body position, etc., The rhythm stopped again. I was feeling more confident. I proceeded [7].

Using "yes-no answers," Upledger says, he pinpointed the problem as "a toxin that was inhaled by the mother . . . over a period of about two-and-a-half hours while cleaning the grease off an antique automobile engine" during the fourth month of pregnancy. After "asking many particulars" about what he should do, Upledger was told to "pump the parietal bones that form a large part of the roof of the skull, and to pass a lot of my energy through the brain from the back of the skull to the front." As he did this, Upledger frequently checked with the baby's "Inner Physician." After about an hour, Upledger says, the baby began to move normally [7].

Wow. Halp.

Originally Posted by mdd do2014

in case you're interested why i might have written that. Scroll down to where it says "disciplinary record."
http://www.quackwatch.com/11ind/frymann1.html


or this gem from quackwatch.org's article on craniosacral therapy. This upledger guy is supposedly the big shot in craniosacral right now.


The chapter goes on to describe upledger's care of a four-month-old french baby who was "as floppy as a rag doll." although the baby had never been exposed to english, upledger decided to see whether the baby's "inner physician" would communicate with him via the craniosacral system:

I requested aloud in english that the craniosacral rhythm stop if the answer to a question was "yes" and not stop if the answer was "no." the rhythm stopped for about ten seconds. I took this as an indication that i was being understood. I then asked if it was possible during this session for the rhythm to stop only in response to my question and not for other reasons, such as body position, etc., the rhythm stopped again. I was feeling more confident. I proceeded [7].

Using "yes-no answers," upledger says, he pinpointed the problem as "a toxin that was inhaled by the mother . . . Over a period of about two-and-a-half hours while cleaning the grease off an antique automobile engine" during the fourth month of pregnancy. After "asking many particulars" about what he should do, upledger was told to "pump the parietal bones that form a large part of the roof of the skull, and to pass a lot of my energy through the brain from the back of the skull to the front." as he did this, upledger frequently checked with the baby's "inner physician." after about an hour, upledger says, the baby began to move normally [7].

wtf

Originally Posted by MDD DO2014

I think I am probably going to be put on double secret probation too. NICE.

If the above is any guide, chances are there will be no permanent repercussions. Relax. Most people agree with you that cranial is useless, and they've been complaining about it for years. You're preaching to the choir on this one.

It was absolutely scary, when I stood there during lab and saw so many people nod, as they palpated the PRI, during OMM lab. It was like a real life horror movie. "We all feel the PRI... Come join us." cue the X-files music.

Someone has to take a stand against this nonsense. It happens at MD schools too by the way. There are a lot of people who elect to take courses in "alternative medicine." Is there anyone on here who is a psychiatry resident or something who could explain how this nonsense manages to infect us? To any of you older graduates, did you expect Cranial to STILL be a part of the curriculum years after you graduated? Could you please take a stand against this..? If I was willing to take heat for it, maybe other people in a better position to affect change can be willing to stand against cranial theory too.

Originally Posted by MDD DO2014

in case you're interested why I might have written that. scroll down to where it says "disciplinary record."
http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/frymann1.html


or this gem from Quackwatch.org's article on Craniosacral therapy. This upledger guy is supposedly the big shot in craniosacral right now.


The chapter goes on to describe Upledger's care of a four-month-old French baby who was "as floppy as a rag doll." Although the baby had never been exposed to English, Upledger decided to see whether the baby's "Inner Physician" would communicate with him via the craniosacral system:

I requested aloud in English that the craniosacral rhythm stop if the answer to a question was "yes" and not stop if the answer was "no." The rhythm stopped for about ten seconds. I took this as an indication that I was being understood. I then asked if it was possible during this session for the rhythm to stop only in response to my question and not for other reasons, such as body position, etc., The rhythm stopped again. I was feeling more confident. I proceeded [7].

Using "yes-no answers," Upledger says, he pinpointed the problem as "a toxin that was inhaled by the mother . . . over a period of about two-and-a-half hours while cleaning the grease off an antique automobile engine" during the fourth month of pregnancy. After "asking many particulars" about what he should do, Upledger was told to "pump the parietal bones that form a large part of the roof of the skull, and to pass a lot of my energy through the brain from the back of the skull to the front." As he did this, Upledger frequently checked with the baby's "Inner Physician." After about an hour, Upledger says, the baby began to move normally [7].

what year was this? lolz

Originally Posted by TheBlueBlazer

I did it for step 2. Said a bunch of stuff that while 100% true, probably went a little over the line in its bluntness calling out the DO Establishment and my creative use of not-quite-but-almost-vulgar language. They read it, and sent me a letter a couple months later that said that my comments were unprofessional, and I was basically put on Double-Secret Probation.

Our administration told us earlier in the year about a student who took a national exam (I can't remember if it was the COMLEX or one of the NBME's) and used the comments section to write a profanity-filled tirade, f-bombs and all. They were informed that they would no longer be allowed to take exams from whoever had written the test. Obviously, if this were the COMLEX people, this would be game over.

In the future, if you're going to criticize those who have your future in their hands, you should do it politely and with a level-head. No matter how well you make your points, your comments about your exam aren't going to spur a paradigm shift in the osteopathic community, so keep your head down and pick a fight you can win.

Originally Posted by Druggernaut

Our administration told us earlier in the year about a student who took a national exam (I can't remember if it was the COMLEX or one of the NBME's) and used the comments section to write a profanity-filled tirade, f-bombs and all. They were informed that they would no longer be allowed to take exams from whoever had written the test. Obviously, if this were the COMLEX people, this would be game over.

In the future, if you're going to criticize those who have your future in their hands, you should do it politely and with a level-head. No matter how well you make your points, your comments about your exam aren't going to spur a paradigm shift in the osteopathic community, so keep your head down and pick a fight you can win.

I'm sure that has its own share of hyperbole and "telephone" of the story. What I said was that I thought that it was an embarrassment that this was a test that was used to judge who was qualified to be a doctor and that the Osteopathic community needs to take an objective look at these exams instead of being ostriches and sticking their heads in the sand and pretending all is well like they do with all the other issues where they claim to be representing us. I only used one term that could be considered vulgarity ("pissed-off" I believe) so that wasn't what angered them. All in all I wouldn't worry about it, just don't do it again.

Executive summary: Don't piss off the AOA.

Originally Posted by TheBlueBlazer

I'm sure that has its own share of hyperbole and "telephone" of the story. What I said was that I thought that it was an embarrassment that this was a test that was used to judge who was qualified to be a doctor and that the Osteopathic community needs to take an objective look at these exams instead of being ostriches and sticking their heads in the sand and pretending all is well like they do with all the other issues where they claim to be representing us. I only used one term that could be considered vulgarity ("pissed-off" I believe) so that wasn't what angered them. All in all I wouldn't worry about it, just don't do it again.

Well, I think I was a little more sarcastic, I really hope I didn't say anything like "pissed off" and I feel like an idiot for all of this. I wish I could delete everything I've said for the past month. My emotions have clearly been getting the best of me about this. I was really hoping to hear that nobody read these comments. The fact that someone reads these comments and that people do in fact get punished for them (sometimes severely) is incredibly terrifying. I have much more respect for how much power these people have over me now. I have definitely learned my lesson. It's sad, but I can't picture any instance in which I will ever feel comfortable speaking my mind within the osteopathic community about this stuff. I guess In fact, to be honest, I wish there was a way to delete this whole thread. Is there? Oh well.

Originally Posted by MDD DO2014

It was absolutely scary, when I stood there during lab and saw so many people nod, as they palpated the PRI, during OMM lab. It was like a real life horror movie. "We all feel the PRI... Come join us." cue the X-files music.

I'm sure that very few of the others actually believed they were feeling the PRI. Most people are just going through the motions so they can graduate and move on in life.
I definitely sympathize with your views about cranial. If you are serious about wanting to reform the DO profession, I would suggest focusing your future efforts on trying to get involved in the administrative/organizational side of things (leadership position in the student orgs, join the AOA's committee for residents once you're in residency, stay involved once you graduate). Maybe write some letters to the editor of JAOA or other journals to start some discussion.

Yep. DOs have been speaking out for a long time. Their letters in the JAOA and comments on The DO are good examples.

I agree with this to some extent, but I would definitely wait to make waves until after you graduate, and actually have a career and some sort of academic clout. Trying to do anything as a student will just be EXTREMELY frustrating (trust me here). They can't ostracize you if you're well known, but they can help make it a hell of a hard climb, and until you're "somebody" nobody cares at all about what you have to say.

Either way, don't sweat it. What's done is done, and you're not going to get expelled or anything so, if it ever even comes to it, take your wrist-slap punishment, say "I'm very sorry, sir. I've learned my lesson" and move on. Nobody will remember it.

Originally Posted by peppy

.I'm sure that very few of the others actually believed they were feeling the PRI. Most people are just going through the motions so they can graduate and move on in life.
I definitely sympathize with your views about cranial If you are serious about wanting to reform the DO profession, I would suggest focusing your future efforts on trying to get involved in the administrative/organizational side of things (leadership position in the student orgs, join the AOA's committee for residents once you're in residency, stay involved once you graduate). Maybe write some letters to the editor of JAOA or other journals to start some discussion.

I have never seen such a bunch of crap in my life. That was NOT how cranial was presented at our school. They presented assessing for restriction/overlap at the sutures as related to headache and the whole thing was taught primarily as diagnostic/therapeutic for headaches. Showed some MRI studies demonstrating cranial motion (on the .5 to 1 mm level) and gave explanation that the proprioceptive nerves in the joints of the fingers could detect that motion whereas the pressure sensors in the pads of the fingers probably wouldn't.

I actually am a believer that there is motion - some movement going on with circulation of the CSF. But beyond that, one of the students in my class is there because his baby with plagiocephaly and pretty bad compression of the vagal nerve was treated by a DO whom his kids neurologist sent him to. Obviously with newborns, there is a lot of skull suture overlapping and no question that the bones are mobile. That's where "cranial therapy" to treat is really necessary and valuable.

don't throw out the baby (addressing newborn cranial dysplasias) with the bathwater!

Kate

Originally Posted by Kate429

I have never seen such a bunch of crap in my life. That was NOT how cranial was presented at our school. They presented assessing for restriction/overlap at the sutures as related to headache and the whole thing was taught primarily as diagnostic/therapeutic for headaches. Showed some MRI studies demonstrating cranial motion (on the .5 to 1 mm level) and gave explanation that the proprioceptive nerves in the joints of the fingers could detect that motion whereas the pressure sensors in the pads of the fingers probably wouldn't.

I actually am a believer that there is motion - some movement going on with circulation of the CSF. But beyond that, one of the students in my class is there because his baby with plagiocephaly and pretty bad compression of the vagal nerve was treated by a DO whom his kids neurologist sent him to. Obviously with newborns, there is a lot of skull suture overlapping and no question that the bones are mobile. That's where "cranial therapy" to treat is really necessary and valuable.

don't throw out the baby (addressing newborn cranial dysplasias) with the bathwater!

Kate

This is the most well-reasoned description of craniosacral therapy that I have ever heard... However, many studies (including one at Northeastern Osteopathic which recommended we stop teaching the subject) have unfortunately shown that the PRI is not something which can be reliably documented due to inter-examiner variability. One could certainly argue that perhaps more experienced practitioners or improved teaching methods could be a remedy this lack of reliability. However, when many studies have shown that a method of diagnosis is invalid due to inter-examiner variability, and when that method of diagnosis is so "revolutionary" that it completely defies common sense... Well, then perhaps we ought to abandon this Cranial Theory for now. If you're familiar with the writings of GK Chesterton, than you might be familiar with his idea of the mad man who claimed to be the King of England. When the madman was asked about how he, the king, wound up on the street he carefully explained a long list of events which, though completely false, were very difficult to disprove. When one has a concept in her head before hand, it is very easy to find reasons (excuses) to maintain her claims.

not to scare you... but to make you aware:

The NBOME may contact your school and blow you in.
Happened to two of my classmates last year and they were at risk of some serious $hit. Both left colorful comments stating their displeasure with questions and they paid for it. Not sure what school you go to, but be aware.

For other students, Leave comments on the test, by all means, and it's ok to disagree with them, but know that the NBOME has and will go after people if you stray from constructive criticism to "ridiculous comments".

To clear up too... the people used curse words in their critique, which was probably what put them over the edge to reply.

Originally Posted by irJanus

not to scare you... but to make you aware:

The NBOME may contact your school and blow you in.
Happened to two of my classmates last year and they were at risk of some serious $hit. Both left colorful comments stating their displeasure with questions and they paid for it. Not sure what school you go to, but be aware.

For other students, Leave comments on the test, by all means, and it's ok to disagree with them, but know that the NBOME has and will go after people if you stray from constructive criticism to "ridiculous comments".

To clear up too... the people used curse words in their critique, which was probably what put them over the edge to reply.

How is that not supposed to scare me?

I don't think I used any curse words. And I am sure that for the most part I was being totally earnest.

But specifically, may I ask how long it was before those two students heard back? Did they hear back before their test scores were released to them? Who did they hear from, indirectly through their school or from the NBOME or the AOA directly? And lastly, what was their punishment? Were they seriously expelled or prohibited from taking part two or three because of one isolated series of mistakes making comments on a test?

I am, I think anyway, towards the top of my class. I am a member of SSP. I have never been in trouble like this before. I had ONE bad day, during an extremely high pressure situation and I have obviously learned my lesson and will keep comments like that OUT of my MIND whenever I am in contact with the AOA or NBOME, etc.

Do you think I should call the NBOME and see if I can profusely apologize or ask them to delete my comments? Or should I probably just not try and attract attention to it? I can't help imagining myself getting some kindly and forgiving secretary on the phone who would give me a little lecture about being more level headed but in the be understanding and pull up my test comments and erase my comments for me before anyone else could read them. That's probably just wishful thinking right...???

I doubt a secretary would have access to the comlex database, and kindly erase your rant :-). I wouldn't worry about it, you're allowed to have an opinion. I imagine such comments aren't uncommon.

Originally Posted by MDD DO2014

How is that not supposed to scare me?

I don't think I used any curse words. And I am sure that for the most part I was being totally earnest.

But specifically, may I ask how long it was before those two students heard back? Did they hear back before their test scores were released to them? Who did they hear from, indirectly through their school or from the NBOME or the AOA directly? And lastly, what was their punishment? Were they seriously expelled or prohibited from taking part two or three because of one isolated series of mistakes making comments on a test?

I am, I think anyway, towards the top of my class. I am a member of SSP. I have never been in trouble like this before. I had ONE bad day, during an extremely high pressure situation and I have obviously learned my lesson and will keep comments like that OUT of my MIND whenever I am in contact with the AOA or NBOME, etc.

I wouldn't worry about it. If they call your school what are they going to do? Kick you out for having an opinion? Think about how ridiculous that would be. It sounds like the 2 people in the other example probably wrote things that had nothing to do with their opinion of the test and just made unprofessional comments.

If you offered your opinion, and you truly stand behind what you said, then don't be afraid.

Originally Posted by MDD DO2014

Do you think I should call the NBOME and see if I can profusely apologize or ask them to delete my comments? Or should I probably just not try and attract attention to it? I can't help imagining myself getting some kindly and forgiving secretary on the phone who would give me a little lecture about being more level headed but in the be understanding and pull up my test comments and erase my comments for me before anyone else could read them. That's probably just wishful thinking right...???

be a man and take responsibility for your actions, you're embarrassing all of us

Originally Posted by Deceptacon

be a man and take responsibility for your actions, you're embarrassing all of us

Please speak for yourself. I'm glad he said what he said. Going a little overboard in the moment and later considering apologizing is perfectly understandable.

Originally Posted by TheBlueBlazer

I did it for step 2. Said a bunch of stuff that while 100% true, probably went a little over the line in its bluntness calling out the DO Establishment and my creative use of not-quite-but-almost-vulgar language. They read it, and sent me a letter a couple months later that said that my comments were unprofessional, and I was basically put on Double-Secret Probation. They said that any other problems would be treated more seriously in light of this and I had to have a sit-down with my Dean to talk about better ways to vent my frustrations and whatnot. And that was it. Didn't affect my match (which was ACGME) and didn't affect my graduation. I don't recommend doing it for anyone else, because despite some exam-day relief, it was a bit of a pain and obviously my points were lost among the silliness. Instead, keep that chip on your shoulder, work hard, and become a respected physician and then go back and start making noise, you'll be 100% more effective that way.

Wow, I had no idea that they would do something like this!

I definitely ripped them in the comments section pretty bad after Level 1. I didn't get profane or overtly disrespectful..but I definitely called them out big time. I might think twice about level 2 now! Thanks for sharing your experience!!

Originally Posted by illegallysmooth

Please speak for yourself. I'm glad he said what he said. Going a little overboard in the moment and later considering apologizing is perfectly understandable.

I actually see both sides here. Deceptacon, it isn't like I am a coward. In my little rant to them I was complaining about things like craniosacral therapy or diagnosing complicated and gray area problems with OMM tender points. I just don't think that is legitimate medicine. I think it is thrown in there to appease a few powerful people who everybody else is sort of scared of (myself included...). In an hour of weakness, I lacked the prudence to realize that it's better to keep my mouth shut, even though I think an injustice is being done. YEAH, I really do think that. We ought to do what's best for our patients, not only as physicians but as educators as well. When we hold our students accountable for dubious theories we take away from the time they have to learn other things that can have a much more positive, measurable impact on their lives. It's kinda supposed to be sacred....

But even though I really do believe that it my heart, and even though I think my anger was justifiable, I wish I could take back what I said because I realize now that it isn't going to do anything positive and will only destroy everything I have worked to build towards my future career as a physician, a career I hold SACRED.

I learned a lesson here. Namely prudence is the better part of valor.

Simply, the comments section is to speak about the questions. Unless there is a comments option at the end (I forget) there's no reason to berate specific questions in the comments section.

I would make a comment that I couldn't discern between two answers for a specific reason, but not because of the underlying therapy.

If you want to do that, gain a position of power and speak out. We need more people like you. However, your national board exam is not the way to do it.

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Simply, the comments section is to speak about the questions. Unless there is a comments option at the end (I forget) there's no reason to berate specific questions in the comments section.

I would make a comment that I couldn't discern between two answers for a specific reason, but not because of the underlying therapy.

If you want to do that, gain a position of power and speak out. We need more people like you. However, your national board exam is not the way to do it.

you know, the sad truth of this is that most of the people who will earnestly question osteopathic dogma get weeded out... it's not that hard to label me as a closed minded person, or better yet to 'scare me straight' by basically hanging the threat of expulsion over anyone who vehemently disagrees. those questions made me mad. they really did. i bottled it up until the end of the the test and then after a question i found particularly offensive in it's deliberate flouting of common sense... the flood gates opened. when I first signed on here, i thought i was just going to reassure myself and hear people say that nobody will ever punish you for speaking your mind, as long as you don't cuss up a storm or use racial slurs that sort of thing. WRONG. i thought i was being paranoid but i was dead on for being scared of losing my chance to practice medicine. oh and by the way if i weren't so scared of the AOA and NBOME, i would LOVE to tell you what that question was. it absolutely WAS offensive. It was downright malicious. it felt like someone smiled over the keyboard satisfaction on his face and typed that nonsense up, thinking to himself how good it felt to have the power to be able to force someone to take this question seriously on such a monumental test. i don't know how some of these people can look a patient in the face and say some of this stuff. there has to be some little inkling of a conscience in there, something that makes them feel uncomfortable every time they preform a thoracic outlet release and bill the patient for 6 separate effects (i.e. improved lymphatic circulation, relieved venous congestion, addressed facial restriction, re-doming of abdominothoracic diaphragm, etc.). in my last omm lab of the year this year, we were encouraged to do easy and broad reaching omm like this on our patients because we can get reimbursed for each goal it accomplishes. are we okay with that?! well that problem certainly upset me that day. it upset me and i boiled over. i accept that it wasn't the appropriate time or place. but i hope people see that for all my mistakes and flaws, there is clearly a problem with the culture of osteopathic medicine, that nobody feels comfortable enough to speak out about anything 'controversial.'

in any case, ilke i said, with hindsight it is pretty obvious that that wasn't the appropriate forum. i'm glad you were smarter than me and used the comment section appropriately.

Originally Posted by MDD DO2014

How is that not supposed to scare me?

I don't think I used any curse words. And I am sure that for the most part I was being totally earnest.

But specifically, may I ask how long it was before those two students heard back? Did they hear back before their test scores were released to them? Who did they hear from, indirectly through their school or from the NBOME or the AOA directly? And lastly, what was their punishment? Were they seriously expelled or prohibited from taking part two or three because of one isolated series of mistakes making comments on a test?

I am, I think anyway, towards the top of my class. I am a member of SSP. I have never been in trouble like this before. I had ONE bad day, during an extremely high pressure situation and I have obviously learned my lesson and will keep comments like that OUT of my MIND whenever I am in contact with the AOA or NBOME, etc.

Not sure what school you go to but I think that's the key as to how it will be handled. LECOM took it seriously, but even still... it wasn't too big a deal. The students were reprimanded but NOTHING academic. Not held back ect. I believe they gave a presentation to a class below us on "decorum becoming of a medical student". haha we laugh about it now, but they definitely had to eat some crow.

As an aside - I'm with you... I think the AOA needs to really hear from us about the COMLEX. That test is poorly written, poorly constructed, i could go on and on... I'm on your side.

Here's my problem with this thread. You keep saying you know you shouldn't have done it in that forum blah, blah, blah and then you keep making excuses as to why you did.

I'm sorry that you're so unhappy being a DO student but you made your point, people agreed with you, now move on until you're able to speak your mind with a purpose. And hopefully when you do, you'll realize that you need to control your temper and practice some tact because your point gets lost in all the complaining. If your school finds out about your comments it won't surprise me. You're a grown up now and you acted unprofessionally by trashing the profession, using words like quack, to unleash your anger about a national board exam. Will it hurt you? No, but thinking they'd just smile and move on was naieve. You invalidated your points by choosing the manner in which you chose to air your frustrations. Now its time to move on, learn a lesson about calming yourself down before making a point, and think of an explanation for your school.

I want to add that i think you're right in your overall point, but being right doesn't entitle you to be an ass and in my opinion with the language you used and in the forum you chose, you were being a bit of an ass.

to the op,

another supporter here who agrees with your position, but not the way you chose to express it.

people have been wanting to put cranial away in a museum for years. it will happen.

how many do's out there are practicing cranial? minuscule, negligible number.

is cranial the biggest issue facing do students today? duh. no. no. no.

good luck on your rotations. you may be asked to do stuff that you may not like to do or disagree with.

ignore it and move on.

Originally Posted by pipe dream

You invalidated your points by choosing the manner in which you chose to air your frustrations. Now its time to move on, learn a lesson about calming yourself down before making a point, and think of an explanation for your school.

I want to add that i think you're right in your overall point, but being right doesn't entitle you to be an ass and in my opinion with the language you used and in the forum you chose, you were being a bit of an ass.

One of the things I have learned through this process is that "quack" is almost a cuss-word in medicine. I am the first person in my family to be involved in medicine. I've been sort of flying by the seat of my pants and I'll be sure to be much more careful in the words I choose, and will probably never use that word in a medical forum ever again.

I don't think you're criticism of the topic is really fair. First of all, I had NO idea what was going to happen and I am glad I asked because now I know. Second, hopefully some first years will read this and benefit from my mistake. Further still, is it really surprising that I have posted so much, considering how nervous about this I am? I keep checking this forum praying that someone will come on and tell me not to worry. I don't want to be lied to, and I am glad people have been honest, but I am human and I can't help hoping that this won't be as serious as I am envisioning. I haven't been able to sleep since typing that stuff. The notion of losing everything over one mistake is pretty heavy. You seem much too prudent to know what that feels like. I am sure you have never done anything so stupid and been afraid what will happen to you.

But seriously, you are right in what I have quoted above. I invalidated my points by choosing to address them in the manner I did. As much as I try to rationalize, I cannot argue with that. I was a theology major, and I know that prudence must guide the other virtues. Even still the idea that I just have to swallow what I see as an injustice and wait until an AOA council meeting or something, or wait even longer until I have accumulated enough prestige to have my opinion taken seriously at such a meeting... Well that idea FEELS painfully absurd. But whether or not it FEELS right is irrelevant. I am learning that I do need to wait until my opinion means something, and that I do need to voice that opinion in the appropriate venue. I am sorry if anyone feels that I have wasted their time. But this was an important step in my development as a physician and a person. I don't anticipate having anything more to say. I really hope I never make a mistake like this again, and I really hope I still get to help cure illness. Thank you all for your comments. Take care.

We've all made mistakes but the difference is in how you deal with it. From your posts, it seems you're not remorseful in how you said it. You just qorry bc it was during the exam. The problem is those comments would have neen hostile, rude, and unprofessional even if you were an attending with power. Part of being a leader is being tactful and not burning bridges by offending the masses. Anyway, good luck. I hope it all works out for you. I really mran that.