is pathoma complete?

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If you were picking just one source to review all of pathology after 2nd year in lets say 4-5 days, do you think Pathoma + First Aid + questions would be more than enough? That way I don't really have to read through BRS Path or Goljan Path.

The general consensus is Pathoma is better for 1st time learning the materials and really understanding the concepts. Goljan is better when you already have the background because it consolidates all the info and integrate different organ systems along with it to give you the "bigger picture". So I guess it depends on how well you know path in the first place.

Originally Posted by peroxidase

If you were picking just one source to review all of pathology after 2nd year in lets say 4-5 days, do you think Pathoma + First Aid + questions would be more than enough? That way I don't really have to read through BRS Path or Goljan Path.

I personally have not read rapid review but have done Goljan audio's and pathoma. IMO, pathoma with fa and uworld offer an excellent review of pathology.

Originally Posted by peroxidase

If you were picking just one source to review all of pathology after 2nd year in lets say 4-5 days, do you think Pathoma + First Aid + questions would be more than enough? That way I don't really have to read through BRS Path or Goljan Path.

Given your time frame (i.e. 4-5 days), I don't think you'll have time to go through Rapid Review comfortably. Pathoma is much more do-able and along with First Aid and questions (UWorld), it should be easily sufficient for a great score. You add Goljan audio to each corresponding topic for a better understanding.

There's very little pathology on Step 1 that isn't covered in Pathoma (if you include the corresponding videos and not just the booklet). It basically has everything that First Aid has + missing holes. And, it's explained rather than just written on a page.

Definitely a good thing to plow through the last two weeks in your study time if you think you digest things well by just listening. I'm 1.5 weeks away and have been re-doing Pathoma + re-reading First Aid + UWorld random blocks + memorizing specific First Aid pages I'm weak on.

Originally Posted by mdquestion

There's very little pathology on Step 1 that isn't covered in Pathoma (if you include the corresponding videos and not just the booklet). It basically has everything that First Aid has + missing holes. And, it's explained rather than just written on a page.

Definitely a good thing to plow through the last two weeks in your study time if you think you digest things well by just listening. I'm 1.5 weeks away and have been re-doing Pathoma + re-reading First Aid + UWorld random blocks + memorizing specific First Aid pages I'm weak on.

Also another advantage that pathoma has over pretty much anything is repetition. Repetition of rapid review is futile because its dense and long. Pathoma is concise and can be repeated multiple times in a very short amount of time.

There are a lot of diseases not covered on pathoma that are highly likely to appear on STEP 1. He's pathology but he's not everything. Metabolic diseases, genetic diseases, infectious diseases and nervous system diseases are four huge gaping holes that you will have to review from elsewhere. His CNS section is a joke.

That said, I love his videos and I think it's the best $100 I spent in terms of STEP 1 preparation. I'd pay another $100 if he'd make videos for everything he hasn't covered yet.

Originally Posted by ijn

There are a lot of diseases not covered on pathoma that are highly likely to appear on STEP 1. He's pathology but he's not everything. Metabolic diseases, genetic diseases, infectious diseases and nervous system diseases are four huge gaping holes that you will have to review from elsewhere. His CNS section is a joke.

That said, I love his videos and I think it's the best $100 I spent in terms of STEP 1 preparation. I'd pay another $100 if he'd make videos for everything he hasn't covered yet.

I always thought of Pathoma as covering Pathology only. You would use another resource for Year 1 stuff, and for Pathophys/Pharm, wouldn't you?

pathoma + kaplan lecture notes for pathology + uworld. I suggest reading the kaplan lecture notes for pathology over first aid. its not a thick read, and accompanies great with pathoma.

It depends, Are you an average student in your class, or are you top performer. From my experience I would recommend RR pathology with you ms1 and ms2 lectures, and the switch to pathoma when doing dedicated study for step1. If your pathology and pathophysio logy is not top performer you should not waste time on pathoma, even though it has good information. If you are top performer in your class, the stick to pathoma because it will in the gaps.

Originally Posted by Morsetlis

I always thought of Pathoma as covering Pathology only. You would use another resource for Year 1 stuff, and for Pathophys/Pharm, wouldn't you?

I don't see your point. Metabolic diseases are part of pathology. Genetic diseases are part of pathology. Nervous system diseases are part of pathology. Infectious diseases are part of pathology. Take a look at Robbins or Rapid Review Pathology and you'll find those topics in there. Pathology isn't defined as "stuff you tend to do second year." I really appreciate Pathoma but I do think it could be improved greatly by including 6-8 more hours on those topics.

Originally Posted by ijn

I don't see your point. Metabolic diseases are part of pathology. Genetic diseases are part of pathology. Nervous system diseases are part of pathology. Infectious diseases are part of pathology. Take a look at Robbins or Rapid Review Pathology and you'll find those topics in there. Pathology isn't defined as "stuff you tend to do second year." I really appreciate Pathoma but I do think it could be improved greatly by including 6-8 more hours on those topics.

but thats why it is essential that you include kaplan path and uworld when studying pathoma. these 2 fill in the missing gaps of pathoma.

Originally Posted by san2

but thats why it is essential that you include kaplan path and uworld when studying pathoma. these 2 fill in the missing gaps of pathoma.

Or you can just do Rapid review pathology, instead of listening to boring lectures of Kaplan and plus average US medical student gets 5-6 weeks to prepare for step1. It honestly not worth listening to Kaplan pathology videos.

Like I mentioned before if you are an average medical student, then stick with your ms1 ans ms2 notes with RR pathology, and if you are top performer only then you should supplement with pathoma. I am not saying pathoma is not good for step1, all I am trying to point out is that use pathoma as FA for pathology.

Originally Posted by jatt12

It depends, Are you an average student in your class, or are you top performer. From my experience I would recommend RR pathology with you ms1 and ms2 lectures, and the switch to pathoma when doing dedicated study for step1. If your pathology and pathophysio logy is not top performer you should not waste time on pathoma, even though it has good information. If you are top performer in your class, the stick to pathoma because it will in the gaps.

I disagree. I didn't learn any path throughout the year. Pathoma + FA was more than enough for almost all the qbanks.

Originally Posted by NotAsking4Much

I disagree. I didn't learn any path throughout the year. Pathoma + FA was more than enough for almost all the qbanks.

It's hard to believe but if you say so.

Originally Posted by ijn

There are a lot of diseases not covered on pathoma that are highly likely to appear on STEP 1. He's pathology but he's not everything. Metabolic diseases, genetic diseases, infectious diseases and nervous system diseases are four huge gaping holes that you will have to review from elsewhere. His CNS section is a joke.

That said, I love his videos and I think it's the best $100 I spent in terms of STEP 1 preparation. I'd pay another $100 if he'd make videos for everything he hasn't covered yet.

Probably left those out so there could be huge improvements in the 2nd edition of the book. How else is he gonna run a business?

hm interesting

from the consensus it doesnt seem like it will be enough
i like it though because he explains things well and the diagrams are spot on so i feel like i'm actually learning

i might have to fill in my gaps with a skim through of brs path it seems

Originally Posted by jumpmanv15

Probably left those out so there could be huge improvements in the 2nd edition of the book. How else is he gonna run a business?

If he wanted to make more money he wouldn't let you watch the videos 8 times. Someone on here said he was going to make the videos for Kaplan but sells them himself because of how much Kaplan was going to charge people for the videos.

Originally Posted by jatt12

Or you can just do Rapid review pathology, instead of listening to boring lectures of Kaplan and plus average US medical student gets 5-6 weeks to prepare for step1. It honestly not worth listening to Kaplan pathology videos.

Like I mentioned before if you are an average medical student, then stick with your ms1 ans ms2 notes with RR pathology, and if you are top performer only then you should supplement with pathoma. I am not saying pathoma is not good for step1, all I am trying to point out is that use pathoma as FA for pathology.

when i say do kaplan path lectures, i mean not to watch the lectures but rather read the kaplan lecture notes available for pathology. the kaplan lecture notes are shorter than rapid review by far, but still cover everything particularly what pathoma does not cover. pathoma's instructor i believe actually works for kaplan also. that and pathoma and qbank should more than suffice.

Originally Posted by sharon450

my email is sharon.sharon4545@gmail.com

No one can send them to you because they CAN'T BE DOWNLOADED. You have to purchase them online at pathoma.com and watch them online.

Some people at my school recorded them, but I still bought the online version anyway ;p

I'm nearing the end of my first pass of First Aid (and will go over it again in the last few weeks before the test) and I'm also doing Pathoma a bit at night. After studying the same topic in both First Aid and Pathoma, I feel my First Aid learning is 10x than my Pathoma's. Pathoma almost seems too basic at times and spends too much time explaining obvious things. Even on 1.7x, half of the time I'm twiddling my thumbs because First Aid already taught me it and in more detail than Pathoma. I've done the first 3 sections so far and I'm trying to force myself to do it all of it, but my motivation is lessening since it just feels like a less in-depth First Aid review.

Like I said, I think I'm going to finish Pathoma, but First Aid on its own may be more useful than FirstAid+Pathoma since FA is more detailed and comprehensive. The extra time not doing Pathoma may be better spent reviewing FA again.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

Originally Posted by rocketbooster

I'm nearing the end of my first pass of First Aid (and will go over it again in the last few weeks before the test) and I'm also doing Pathoma a bit at night. After studying the same topic in both First Aid and Pathoma, I feel my First Aid learning is 10x than my Pathoma's. Pathoma almost seems too basic at times and spends too much time explaining obvious things. Even on 1.7x, half of the time I'm twiddling my thumbs because First Aid already taught me it and in more detail than Pathoma. I've done the first 3 sections so far and I'm trying to force myself to do it all of it, but my motivation is lessening since it just feels like a less in-depth First Aid review.

Like I said, I think I'm going to finish Pathoma, but First Aid on its own may be more useful than FirstAid+Pathoma since FA is more detailed and comprehensive. The extra time not doing Pathoma may be better spent reviewing FA again.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

The first 3 chapters are 1. Growth Adaptations, Cellular Injury and Cell Death 2. Inflammation, Inflammatory Disorders and Wound Healing 3. Principles of Neoplasia.

Do you REALLY expect something else than "basic" stuff out of those chapters? Go and listen to some system lectures and give us a second opinion on Pathoma, which is actually pretty damn good - just not enough. But saying that FA is more "in depth" is almost blasphemy.

Originally Posted by alternatego

The first 3 chapters are 1. Growth Adaptations, Cellular Injury and Cell Death 2. Inflammation, Inflammatory Disorders and Wound Healing 3. Principles of Neoplasia.

Do you REALLY expect something else than "basic" stuff out of those chapters? Go and listen to some system lectures and give us a second opinion on Pathoma, which is actually pretty damn good - just not enough. But saying that FA is more "in depth" is almost blasphemy.

Lol okay. I will. Hope you're right.

Originally Posted by ijn

There are a lot of diseases not covered on pathoma that are highly likely to appear on STEP 1. He's pathology but he's not everything. Metabolic diseases, genetic diseases, infectious diseases and nervous system diseases are four huge gaping holes that you will have to review from elsewhere. His CNS section is a joke.

That said, I love his videos and I think it's the best $100 I spent in terms of STEP 1 preparation. I'd pay another $100 if he'd make videos for everything he hasn't covered yet.

Can anyone who has done pathoma and RR give some input on which section are best supplemented by RR? I'm doing pathoma now as I just started my step 1 studying time and don't really want to go through all of goljan which just seems way too unnecessarily detailed, even for someone looking for a top score.

Obviously the CNS section (maybe genetics, nutrition, ID?) needs to be supplemented with goljan, but does anyone else suggest any specific chapters in goljan that would be good to do in addition to pathoma?

24thGrade, I agree with you that the CNS section really needs to be supplemented with RR.

Originally Posted by alternatego

24thGrade, I agree with you that the CNS section really needs to be supplemented with RR.

Well not entire CNS, just the tumors etc. No?

Originally Posted by RedSoxSuck

Well not entire CNS, just the tumors etc. No?

Comparing the CNS section to my pathology class CNS block, I agree that the tumors is really the only part that is lacking. And maybe a couple of demyelinating diseases were lacking in pathoma, but maybe those are not as high yield

Kaplan pato lecture notes and patoma and uworld

Originally Posted by LaCasta

Comparing the CNS section to my pathology class CNS block, I agree that the tumors is really the only part that is lacking. And maybe a couple of demyelinating diseases were lacking in pathoma, but maybe those are not as high yield

Agreed. I really think pathoma is complete enough as long as it is being used with fa. And uworld SHOULD be used to fill in missing information and or add additional tidbits to make it more complete. This will probably do the job of rapid review which is over kill and I wouldn't know what to real learn and memorize and what is not so hy. Pathoma is pretty much hy.

I improved in my last school offered cbse. Planning to take uwsa this weekend and then we'll see.

Pathoma book + lectures are excellent at cementing a strong understanding of the pathophyisology and pathology of the diseases; it provides a foundation that FA does not. As a result, Pathoma is a great complementary source to FA. However, you need to know your FA like the back of your hand, including the stuff that isn't covered in Pathoma. Some Pathoma sections are very comprehensive, while others definitely aren't (lung and CNS are two examples of very NON-comprehensive chapters in Pathoma).

Goljan, in my opinion, has WAY too much detail for Step 1. I get overwhelmed and lost in the detail and thus don't prefer to use it for exam review (and especially not in your 4-5 day time frame).

Pathoma + FA + Qbanks (ALL three) will cover all bases, I feel. No more, no less.

Originally Posted by LaCasta

Comparing the CNS section to my pathology class CNS block, I agree that the tumors is really the only part that is lacking. And maybe a couple of demyelinating diseases were lacking in pathoma, but maybe those are not as high yield

I mean obviously the chapter is titled CNS, but there's zero on the peripheral nervous system. Guillain-Barre, trigeminal neuralgia, fibromyalgia, diabetic neuropathy, entrapment syndromes, radiculopathies, spinal cord tumors, etc. aren't even mentioned in passing.

It's been a while since I've watched it but I'm sure whatever's in First Aid or Rapid Review is sufficient.

Originally Posted by IDoIt4Love

Goljan, in my opinion, has WAY too much detail for Step 1. I get overwhelmed and lost in the detail and thus don't prefer to use it for exam review (and especially not in your 4-5 day time frame).

Pathoma + FA + Qbanks (ALL three) will cover all bases, I feel. No more, no less.

I agree with this. Goljian's RR is very well-written and probably a great read for MS2 but too time-consuming to get through during dedicated Step prep IMO

FA for path is good, but kaplan lecture notes for path are def the best. much shorter than rr, but more detailed and complete then FA.

Just bought one year of pathoma, I know they did it on purpose but I cant get the videos on my droid. Anyone figure out how to do this?

quick question
first aid says celiac dis primarily affects jejunum

pathoma says primarily duodenum

any ideas?

Originally Posted by peroxidase

quick question
first aid says celiac dis primarily affects jejunum

pathoma says primarily duodenum

any ideas?

"Biopsy specimens from the second portion of the duodenum or proximal jejunum, which are exposed to the highest concentrations of dietary gluten, are generally diagnostic in celiac disease."

According to Robbins. Don't see a definitive answer. Maybe someone else has one...

http://www.mdconsult.com/books/page....Id=335441214-2

Originally Posted by peroxidase

quick question
first aid says celiac dis primarily affects jejunum

pathoma says primarily duodenum

any ideas?

It's a mistake in First Aid that was listed on First Aid's error list. Celiac disease occurs in the duodenum while Tropical sprue affects mainly jejunum and cecum (as far as what we need to know for boards).

Pathoma p110: Crohn's disease associations include ankylosing spondylitis and uveitis. FA 2012 (p355) lists these under ulcerative colitis.

Originally Posted by TooMuchResearch

Pathoma p110: Crohn's disease associations include ankylosing spondylitis and uveitis. FA 2012 (p355) lists these under ulcerative colitis.

IBD (so chron's and UC) is associated with HLA-B27, as are ankylosing spondylitis and uveitis.

So... both are correct?

Originally Posted by peroxidase

If you were picking just one source to review all of pathology after 2nd year in lets say 4-5 days, do you think Pathoma + First Aid + questions would be more than enough? That way I don't really have to read through BRS Path or Goljan Path.

Does anyone know a site/ have a link to download the PDF version of pathoma?

Im planning on buying it eventually, but wanted to wait until I was in second year to but it so that the 12 month online stuff doesnt expire.....

Originally Posted by docnotsopc

Does anyone know a site/ have a link to download the PDF version of pathoma?

Im planning on buying it eventually, but wanted to wait until I was in second year to but it so that the 12 month online stuff doesnt expire.....

Why don't you just wait until you are MS2 then, and concentrate on your MS1 stuff.

Originally Posted by Dr McSexy

IBD (so chron's and UC) is associated with HLA-B27, as are ankylosing spondylitis and uveitis.

So... both are correct?

I think so. I looked into rapid review and into robins but no clear answer. So I am assuming its both.

Originally Posted by RedSoxSuck

I think so. I looked into rapid review and into robins but no clear answer. So I am assuming its both.

It is both. I remember one of my profs mentioning it in class

.

Throughout MS1, i always thought Goljan RR is the gold standard for pathology, but SDN is really making a case for Pathoma. So as a rising MS2, i was planning on getting Pathoma (12 month subsription) and using the reserve copy in the library of Goljan RR to annotate the missing information into the Pathoma book through 2nd year courses. I'm also going to review First Aid and Gunner Training along the way and when the time comes, Qbank.

What do you guys think? Good plan, insufficient, or overkill?

Originally Posted by jekyllish

Throughout MS1, i always thought Goljan RR is the gold standard for pathology, but SDN is really making a case for Pathoma. So as a rising MS2, i was planning on getting Pathoma (12 month subsription) and using the reserve copy in the library of Goljan RR to annotate the missing information into the Pathoma book through 2nd year courses. I'm also going to review First Aid and Gunner Training along the way and when the time comes, Qbank.

What do you guys think? Good plan, insufficient, or overkill?

Overkill for the boards. All you need is the kaplan lecture notes for path and pathoma. That really did the trick for me. It is not too dense yet not too brief. Perfect amount of info to answer any path question come your way. I would highly recommend you buy the kaplan path lecture series book. There is no use listening to
Kaplan audio for path however

Does pathoma cover all the details in first AID... Point being to avoid redundancy, did you annotate much of FA into pathoma?

Additionally i think RR personally is dense for its all inclusiveness of micro (including life cycles, pharm, etc...), physio, and biochem which is great but wouldnt a more rational approach be simply writing in your path margin see this bug or pathway on page # of FA or of BRS phys...At least in that way i mean you'ere gonna wind up covering FA and all its biochem and micro ajnd pharm anyways but for the purpose of a "rapid review goljanLike" approach wouldnt a simple refer to this page in your annotated pathoma be the trick or am i missing something about the power of Goljan that these mere references dont capture

Originally Posted by Gunneria

Does pathoma cover all the details in first AID... Point being to avoid redundancy, did you annotate much of FA into pathoma?

Additionally i think RR personally is dense for its all inclusiveness of micro (including life cycles, pharm, etc...), physio, and biochem which is great but wouldnt a more rational approach be simply writing in your path margin see this bug or pathway on page # of FA or of BRS phys...At least in that way i mean you'ere gonna wind up covering FA and all its biochem and micro ajnd pharm anyways but for the purpose of a "rapid review goljanLike" approach wouldnt a simple refer to this page in your annotated pathoma be the trick or am i missing something about the power of Goljan that these mere references dont capture

Not that this helps but...

There's no one complete source for anything. I never crossed-referenced them in fine enough detail to answer your question. But I ended up using GT and pathoma through the whole year. Took hits on lecture material. And did some extra work with Kaplan materials.

Skinning cats is skinning cats. The only time one needs to worry about this or that missing detail is if they are gunning to the top score for derm, plastics, ortho etc. In that case you do everything. The most extensive path I've seen is Big Robbins.

My issue with teaching myself was more parsimony and elegant effort than exhaustive coverage of detail.

For that GT + pathoma = win.

Place your own bets as you see fit.

Originally Posted by Gunneria

Does pathoma cover all the details in first AID... Point being to avoid redundancy, did you annotate much of FA into pathoma?

Additionally i think RR personally is dense for its all inclusiveness of micro (including life cycles, pharm, etc...), physio, and biochem which is great but wouldnt a more rational approach be simply writing in your path margin see this bug or pathway on page # of FA or of BRS phys...At least in that way i mean you'ere gonna wind up covering FA and all its biochem and micro ajnd pharm anyways but for the purpose of a "rapid review goljanLike" approach wouldnt a simple refer to this page in your annotated pathoma be the trick or am i missing something about the power of Goljan that these mere references dont capture

Yes, Pathoma does cover all of the detail in FA. However, there is something stuff missing from both resources which can be supplemented via a question bank. Yes, i did annotate some of pathoma in FA but not too much. May be because i am using pathoma as much as i am using FA. Atleast for me, Pathoma is fa 1b.