Courseload + ECs, how much is too much?

You def have a robust schedule. Only you can really answer this question. A lot will be up to your determination. How do you deal with setbacks? You will inevitably have them. I would suggest that you hold off on EC's until you find a nice balance for yourself. I am also assuming you will not be working during this process as you have a heavy load here. If you will be... then God (or your own personal higher power *dedicated to Triage should he happen upon this thread ) help you.

Shouldn't be a problem to do 4 science classes per semester along with research/volunteer since you aren't working.

My schedule has been 2-3 science classes, 40 hours working and 20 hours volunteering per week. It's fine if you aren't going out drinking every weekend like undergrads do.

realmeaning said:

So, if everything works out, this is what my courseload will look like (modeled after post-bacc programs). I'm scared ****less of taking science classes after not being in school, but also know that I can't have a light courseload because that's what I had during undergrad, and need to prove something to myself and the adcoms.

My question is twofold:

1) I feel like I'm in a Catch-22. I need a full course load to prove I can do it, but if I fail in this it'll prove the opposite. How do I achieve the balance between challenging myself and setting reasonable goals? Not sure that there's an answer to this-- I guess I'm curious to here other nontrads' experiences, especially those who did there pre-reqs in one year.

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Also, anything that you do with pre-reqs + volunteering will be less time and work than med school will be. If you can't handle it then your concern should about being able to do it and not whether or not adcoms think you can/can't do it.

MedPR said:

Shouldn't be a problem to do 4 science classes per semester along with research/volunteer since you aren't working.

My schedule has been 2-3 science classes, 40 hours working and 20 hours volunteering per week. It's fine if you aren't going out drinking every weekend like undergrads do.

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Keep in mind MedPR that everyone is different. If it's been awhile since the OP took classes, the best way is to ease into them. Allow the OP to gain confidence. I remember how petrified I was going back to school. All of this can seem extremely overwhelming at first. As the OP's hone's his or her study habits, a better idea of how much "free time" will be available should present itself. Most people realistically cannot handle that much at one time while acing everything. But kudos to you for being one of the exceptions. It seems SDN is abundant with exceptions. I however, am a mere mortal.

MedPR said:

Also, anything that you do with pre-reqs + volunteering will be less time and work than med school will be. If you can't handle it then your concern should about being able to do it and not whether or not adcoms think you can/can't do it.

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While true later on, this advice is probably overkill for the first semester back after a long hiatus. I think you may be cranky from MCAT prep.

ShoTyme said:

Keep in mind MedPR that everyone is different. If it's been awhile since the OP took classes, the best way is to ease into them. Allow the OP to gain confidence. I remember how petrified I was going back to school. All of this can seem extremely overwhelming at first. As the OP's hone's his or her study habits, a better idea of how much "free time" will be available should present itself. Most people realistically cannot handle that much at one time while acing everything. But kudos to you for being one of the exceptions. It seems SDN is abundant with exceptions. I however, am a mere mortal.

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I agree that it's overwhelming, but I assume med school will be worse. I don't think I'm an exception because I have been able to handle it so far. I think a lot of us forget that we actually need to be able to do it and not just convince adcoms that we can do it.

ShoTyme said:

While true later on, this advice is probably overkill for the first semester back after a long hiatus. I think you may be cranky from MCAT prep.

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Not cranky, that's the position I took when I decided to start my GPA repair last year. It may be extreme, but I felt that if I couldn't handle it, then I had no business trying to make it through med school.

All I'm saying is that med school will be harder and more time consuming than just about anything we do as undergrads. All the stuff I say about workload and time management are the same things I told myself when I started and continue to tell myself now.

My POV is if I can't handle working + volunteering + a couple of classes, then there's no way I'll be able to handle medical school. I live with my girlfriend who just finished MS2. I've seen how much time she spends studying and how much information there is to learn and I'm sure there's still more to it than I think.

Well you are in a unique situation then that most are not. Most people are fearful when they begin this process. It is very natural to feel overwhelmed and out of one's element when beginning this crazy adventure. Do you not think someone just at the beginning of this journey will get better at time management and studying as they progress? Of course they will. And again, everyone is different. If the OP thought the entire thing was easily manageable, he or she would not have started this thread. If the OP takes on more than is manageable, that may lead to less than satisfactory performance and may subsequently quit.

I'm not saying the road is easy. I'm not saying that medical school won't be a tremendous drain on one's endurance and time management skills. But right now the OP isn't in medical school. The OP is training for it. It's best to teach a child to swim before throwing him into the deep end.

Firstly, you have to be honest with yourself. How good are you at academics in the science field? Does it take you a long time to grasp concepts that are new? How do you feel you can compete against other people that are Brighter and academically inclined than yourself. Some classes you can give 110% and still only squeak a B. After you ask yourself those questions, then I would recommend you using a crescendo type method. 1 class in summer 1. 2 in fall 3. in spring. This way you can identify where your breaking point is and how much"fuel" you have to make the grades

realmeaning said:

So, if everything works out, this is what my courseload will look like (modeled after post-bacc programs). I'm scared ****less of taking science classes after not being in school, but also know that I can't have a light courseload because that's what I had during undergrad, and need to prove something to myself and the adcoms.

My question is twofold:

1) I feel like I'm in a Catch-22. I need a full course load to prove I can do it, but if I fail in this it'll prove the opposite. How do I achieve the balance between challenging myself and setting reasonable goals? Not sure that there's an answer to this-- I guess I'm curious to here other nontrads' experiences, especially those who did there pre-reqs in one year.

2) I'm also considering volunteering at a clinic and doing research on the side. This sounds like a lot to me, at least to start. At the same time though, I remember pre-meds in undergrad doing it. What's the minimum number of hours per week for each to make it worthwhile to even mention on my application? (For the record, I actually am interested in both, for different reasons.) Also, I'm lucky enough to not be working, unlike in undergrad.

Summer
General Chemistry 1 with Lab
General Chemistry 2 with Lab
Calc I

Fall
Introduction to Cellular and Molecular Biology with Lab
Organic Chemistry 1 with Lab
General Physics 1 with Lab
Calc II

Spring
Principles of Genetics with Lab
Organic Chemistry 2 with Lab
General Physics 2 with Lab
Some Bio Class

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Jesus, not to be discouraging or anything, but this is a schedule I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies. Godspeed to you.

Yeah, other than the first semester seeming a bit crazy (have you thought about doing a pre-calc in the summer and then calc1 in the fall, or doing that as fall/spring next year?) It doesn't look too bad, especially if you have the luxury of not working while doing it. My first semester back after almost 20 years was Chem1, Elem. Stats and English Comp I while working full time (with a very flexible schedule) and, if anything, it was too easy. Even while I was in it, I didn't feel like I was facing any huge challenges and wished I was taking more classes. I slowly ramped things up until last semester (4th one back) was 18 CR with Macroecon, Calc I, Physics II, Women in Literature and Global Environment (though the last two classes were so easy they feel like they barely should count) along with full time work and volunteering, as well as time with my kids, some gaming and time with friends. Next semester is going to be Orgo, Bio, Accounting and Business Stats and I honestly wish I could find something else to fit in there, but I'm having some issues with scheduling and not being able to add in any more business classes until I get Accounting out of the way.

realmeaning said:

So, if everything works out, this is what my courseload will look like (modeled after post-bacc programs). I'm scared ****less of taking science classes after not being in school, but also know that I can't have a light courseload because that's what I had during undergrad, and need to prove something to myself and the adcoms.

My question is twofold:

1) I feel like I'm in a Catch-22. I need a full course load to prove I can do it, but if I fail in this it'll prove the opposite. How do I achieve the balance between challenging myself and setting reasonable goals? Not sure that there's an answer to this-- I guess I'm curious to here other nontrads' experiences, especially those who did there pre-reqs in one year.

2) I'm also considering volunteering at a clinic and doing research on the side. This sounds like a lot to me, at least to start. At the same time though, I remember pre-meds in undergrad doing it. What's the minimum number of hours per week for each to make it worthwhile to even mention on my application? (For the record, I actually am interested in both, for different reasons.) Also, I'm lucky enough to not be working, unlike in undergrad.

Summer
General Chemistry 1 with Lab
General Chemistry 2 with Lab
Calc I

Fall
Introduction to Cellular and Molecular Biology with Lab
Organic Chemistry 1 with Lab
General Physics 1 with Lab
Calc II

Spring
Principles of Genetics with Lab
Organic Chemistry 2 with Lab
General Physics 2 with Lab
Some Bio Class

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It took me 2 semesters of two classes before I was comfortable adding a third class to my routine. Some of these classes are tough, doubly so if you haven't been in school for a while. I'd recommend gradually increasing your courseload to make sure you're not in over your head. Looking at your fall schedule, for example: Bio, Physics, Orgo and Calc II at the same time?? You may be able to sneak in 3-4 hours of clinical volunteering per week with that schedule, but any meaningful research will be close to impossible.

This past semester I took 3 courses (Chem II, Cell Biology and Physics II), volunteered 3 hours per week in the ED and did anywhere from 25-35 hours of volunteer research. That was the busiest I've been in my entire life (and that includes at my previous job where 60+ hr workweeks were common). Any meaningful research is going to require dedication, especially if you're not trained or have experience. No PI will take on someone and spend time and effort training them if they're unable to positively contribute to the lab team.

If you're not comfortable taking science classes, your Fall schedule may be a very rude awakening. Organic chemistry on its own is difficult. Tossing General Biology and Physics into that equation is a recipe for disaster if you're not ready for it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is add things slowly. Don't go crazy trying to do everything your first semester. The three post-bacc semesters I've completed have looked like this
1st - 2 courses, shadowing and observing
2nd - 2 courses, volunteering, research
3rd - 3 courses, volunteering, shadowing, research

See how I built a little more on each semester? That ensured that my GPA was protected and I didn't go crazy trying to do too much at once.

realmeaning said:

Wow, thanks everyone, for your honesty and support.

I realize that this is a lot to handle all at once, and it's inspiring to hear that some people have been able to, sometimes with many other commitments on the side. I'm worried not only about proving this to the adcoms, but to myself as well.

What I'm hearing is two different camps: some people saying that it'll be hard, but you have to do it, and others saying that this is way to much to start out with and to gradually increase my coursloads.

If I follow the second opinion, that will lead me to taking longer than one academic year to do my pre-reqs. I really had my heart (ego?) set on finishing all of this in one year, as if I were in a post-bac program. This is not only to gear myself up for the pace of medschool (which I know will be worse), but also to compensate for a poor undergraduate performance-- not just GPA wise, but in terms of a really light courseload every semester.

All this leads to the question: for post-bacc students who have a lot to prove academically, how important is it to finish all the pre-reqs in one year?

Thanks so much.

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It will definitely be hard, but I don't think you need to do it the way you have it outlined. Personally I wanted to make it difficult on myself to help keep me motivated and also to prove that I could do it. In terms of impressing or proving yourself to ADCOMs it is definitely not necessary to finish pre-reqs in one year. However, I think it is important that your schedule be at least moderately full of stuff like school, volunteering, work, shadowing, research, etc.

When I started all of this my tangible goals were as follows:

1. Get GPA up as much as possible by June so I could apply this cycle.
2. Retake as many classes as possible in addition to A&P and Micro.
3. Retake and score well on the MCAT

From all three things, I hoped to achieve the following:

1. Show (to myself and ADCOMs) that I could handle a full schedule of school and ECs.
2. Show that my poor performance first 2 years of undergrad were not representative of my capability or the student/person I am now.
3. Get somewhat of a decent background in anatomy and physio.
4. Stay busy!


Here's what I did:

Summer:
40 hours at work per week
10 hours researching per week
Microbiology with lab
General Chemistry II with lab

My summer classes only overlapped for 1 week (last week of micro and first week of gen chem). I definitely recommend trying to setup your schedule like that if at all possible. Doing two accelerated classes simultaneously would have been impossible for me because there aren't enough hours in the day to be in class for 8 hours and then go to work for 8 hours with the times the courses were available.

Fall:
Work 40 hours per week
Volunteer 15 hours per week
Anatomy & Physiology I with lab
Organic Chemistry I (no lab)
General Chemistry I with lab

Spring:
Work 40 hours per week
Volunteer 15 hours per week
Anatomy & Physiology II with lab -- This was a "hybrid" course, which only had a lab session and DVDs of recorded lectures for the lecture portion of the lab. So I had to go to campus once a week for 3 hours of lab, but no lecture class period so students basically could learn it at their leisure provided they were prepared for the exams.
Physics I with lab
MCAT Prep (December 19 to April 5) This was my roughest semester, but I am satisfied with my MCAT score. It was a retake and I thankfully improved by 5 points and by 2 letters on the WS

Summer (starting June 4):
Work 40 hours per week
Volunteer 20 hours per week
General Psychology -- Online
Biology of Human Health and Disease

These two summer classes will be simultaneous, but only one requires that I be in class so I should be ok on time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I had my very own live-in A&P tutor so that helped a bit as well.

First semester back (this spring) I did...
Bio I
Bio I Lab
Chem I
Chem I Lab
Algebra
Core Comp I
Didn't work, but volunteer 6h a week between a hospital ER and an animal shelter.

Summer will be:
Bio II
Bio II Lab
Chem II Lab
Also not working, continuing to volunteer.

Fall I start to TA three Bio I lab sections a week (hooray, money!) so my schedule gets cut back a little:
Physics I
Physics I Lab
Chem II
Trigonometry
Continuing to volunteer.

Beyond that I'll keep TAing different labs which takes care of work thankfully, and then I'll add research into that at a later date too. My big thing is keeping my week pretty full of school and school-related activities (50+ hours/week at least) while still being able to maintain the grades I want. Keep in mind I'm not in an SMP or structured post-bacc either though; I'm in essence completing another degree since I had none of the prerequisites or ECs I needed.

realmeaning said:

An inspiration! You guys are awesome.

How do you keep yourself sane and motivated?

Also, how long do you estimate doing all these prereqs will take? I in essence will be doing another degree as well, not SMP or structured postbacc.

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Sane? That's open to interpretation! I have a bad(?) habit of competing with myself and making a game/competition out of my grades, but it kind of warrants a little bit of crazy...

Motivated? Well, in my case I left a career (architect) I'd worked in for 4 years to do this and my husband is working two jobs to cover our asses financially while I hog up on student loans so... "failure is not an option" is sort of the mantra around the house.

I'd originally planned to just volunteer and cram in as many bare-bones pre-requisite classes as I could, take the MCAT spring 2013 and apply in summer 2013 but came to the realization that the bare bones approach is not the good one when it comes to MD. So while I *could* have done that, I revised my schedule to add on another year. With that extra year I'll be able to TA, make some money and take some burden off my husband, do some solid research, and add on dramatically to my ECs and their respective hours. Plus I'll get in some non bare-bones classes that will help me on the MCAT which I'll now take in spring 2014 and apply summer 2014. The extra year and the gap year while I apply means I can finish a bachelor's in biology so juuuuust in case things don't go according to plan, I have a backup degree.

tl;dr: It will take me a full three years to finish the bio degree, and 2 years from when I started classes til when I apply to MD

realmeaning said:

MedPR-- That is damn impressive that you were able to pull all that off working FT.

For myself, because I'm not working, if I'm basing my potential off of your schedule (for sake of argument), then I should most definitely be able to handle my proposed course load + clinic + research.

Another question presents itself here: what's better, getting the prereqs done in 18 months with more ECs, or 12 with fewer? (Assuming I'll be the same amount of 'busy' and will be able to sustain similar grades.)

Thanks again.

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Well depending on what kind of research you get into, you might find that it takes up a lot of your time. The research I was doing didn't require me to do any reading or research outside the lab. I know someone who spends 3-4 hours per day in the lab and then has to read journals when he goes home.

If I were in your shoes, I would do 12 months with fewer ECs so that I could apply next cycle. If you take 18, you might end up waiting two whole years before you apply.


[

One question to go along with your "want to finish in a year and not be bare bones" concept. Why two semesters of calc (or any semesters, for that matter) instead of more chem/bio oriented courses?

NightGod said:

One question to go along with your "want to finish in a year and not be bare bones" concept. Why two semesters of calc (or any semesters, for that matter) instead of more chem/bio oriented courses?

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I was wondering the same thing. Calc 1 is probably more than enough and unless you are really good or really interested in math, you shouldn't bother with calc 2. However, if it will be a breeze of a class for you, then by all means use it to bump your GPA.

realmeaning said:

Thanks for your quick reply, Naos.

I feel you on the failure is not an option thing. My parents are helping me out with this (yes, I'm lucky to still have their support), and we're both shouldering the burden of my previous student loans, so I feel like if I commit to this, I need to follow through.

Question-- it seems like many of the formal post-bacc programs cultivate a 'bare bones' approach in that they cram all the prereqs into one year. I'm assuming these kids don't have time for ECs really, or do they? If they don't, then when do they get them in?

I want to volunteer and do research as well, and am considering doing some "non-barebones" classes like you are, except only in my second year. If it weren't for the financial motivations or the bio degree serving as a backup (which I'm sure you won't need), would you still have spaced out your classes over 2 years for the sake of ECs?

This is so helpful to me, so thanks!

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Can't comment on the post-bacc, but there is a tendency for people to rush through it as fast as they can. The financial motivation actually should have pushed me to finish it all in one year but... yeah, it was the right decision regardless. I would have had way less EC hours, I wouldn't have been able to TA or do any research which is important for my state school, and I wouldn't have made the cut-off for the committee LORs which is a way better way to go. Also, I have a feeling rushing that many classes would've made my MCAT suffer pretty heavily.

MedPR said:

Well depending on what kind of research you get into, you might find that it takes up a lot of your time. The research I was doing didn't require me to do any reading or research outside the lab. I know someone who spends 3-4 hours per day in the lab and then has to read journals when he goes home.

If I were in your shoes, I would do 12 months with fewer ECs so that I could apply next cycle. If you take 18, you might end up waiting two whole years before you apply.
[

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This. I'm in the lab at least 3-4 hours a day + weekends (due to cell culture) and I have to stay up to date in my field. It's an absolutely awesome gig though; I've learned tons, made great connections, and have decided that I want to pursue a specialty that will allow me to remain involved in research.

NightGod said:

One question to go along with your "want to finish in a year and not be bare bones" concept. Why two semesters of calc (or any semesters, for that matter) instead of more chem/bio oriented courses?

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Agreed. If I were in your shoes I would save Calc I and Calc II for my gap year. Take Calc I in the fall. If you find you're accepted into a program that requires it, then take Calc II in the spring. I'm 95% sure that Calc, when required, is a matriculation requirement, not an application requirement.

johnnyscans said:

This. I'm in the lab at least 3-4 hours a day + weekends (due to cell culture) and I have to stay up to date in my field. It's an absolutely awesome gig though; I've learned tons, made great connections, and have decided that I want to pursue a specialty that will allow me to remain involved in research.



Agreed. If I were in your shoes I would save Calc I and Calc II for my gap year. Take Calc I in the fall. If you find you're accepted into a program that requires it, then take Calc II in the spring. I'm 95% sure that Calc, when required, is a matriculation requirement, not an application requirement.

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I'm the exact opposite when it comes to research. I hated it, it was boring, and I don't want to have anything to do with research if I don't have to. Combined with working in a clinical lab, I've become completely certain that I want to be in patient care and not academia.

It's definitely worthwhile to get involved in as much as you possibly can before med school if only to have been exposed to different things.

realmeaning said:

Okay, so research can take a lot of time. I hadn't thought of reading outside the lab, so thanks for the heads up. If I decide to pursue it will be sure to ask about that.

As to why Calc I and II-- I just wanted to be more competitive for med schools which require it (although didn't know it was mostly a matriculation, not an admission, requirement, thanks johnnyscans). It's my dream to go to India to volunteer during my gap year, so if at all possible I would like to get all courses out of the way before then.

However, that doesn't mean I couldn't take these Calc courses in my second year when I'm taking other non-barebones bio courses. I hear most people saying I should take non-barebones bio courses instead of Calc in year 1. Why is this better, if I'm going to do the non-required bio courses later anyway? (Asking because I'm curious, not because I necessarily know one way is better than the other. A premed advisor gave me this idea, so I guess I've held it as a holy grail, for better or worse.)

Thanks!

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Non-barebones courses can help you on your MCAT. Cell biology, molecular biology, biochemistry and especially A&P will all help to familiarize you with various experimental protocols and will help hammer home concepts that weren't covered in depth in your general bio course.

OP, just remember that a good GPA with fewer EC's >> average GPA with more EC's. Make sure that grades come first.

ShoTyme said:

OP, just remember that a good GPA with fewer EC's >> average GPA with more EC's. Make sure that grades come first.

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I think the key is a strong GPA with a few extremely strong ECs. Obviously you need to have your clinical experience, but showing long-term commitment to something trumps "checking the boxes", imo.

johnnyscans said:

I think the key is a strong GPA with a few extremely strong ECs. Obviously you need to have your clinical experience, but showing long-term commitment to something trumps "checking the boxes", imo.

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Agreed. However if something has to give, it should be the EC's.

realmeaning said:

Definitely. As one of my friends says, "Don't let the perfect stand in the way of the good."

Thanks for all your advice, ShoTyme.

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No problem. Good luck. I hope you continue with your ferocious determination even in the face of tremendous adversity.

ShoTyme said:

Agreed. However if something has to give, it should be the EC's.

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Yessir. Agree 100% with you on that.

Anything beyond 3 lab sciences per semester sounds excessive to me, since all your free time must be focused on EC activities. Only way to do 4 lab classes (and I think of Calc as a lab class) is if you plan on going out 0% of the time and devoting no time at all to EC.

More reasonable schedule:

Summer - Chem 1 + 2
Fall - Bio 1, O. Chem 1, Physics 1
Spring - Bio 2, O. Chem 2, Physics 2
Summer 2 - Calc 1 + 2

Even this schedule I feel will be tough if you're trying to get strong EC which includes research and leadership in clubs.

realmeaning said:

Definitely.

How much commitment qualifies as 'commitment' to, say, volunteering at a clinic or doing a research project? 5 hours a week? 10 hours a week? (Obviously assuming that whatever amount of time agreed upon by the supervisor was enough to actually help, and not just get in the way; also assuming that I could do the ECs without aversely affecting grades.)

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You can't plan for research like that if you're really looking for independent research. If you just want to be a lab monkey, you can do 6-10, but a real project can take you 20 or so hours a week. Then on top of that you need club leadership (another 10 hours to your schedule) and volunteer work for both medical and non-medical (6 or so hours).

You graduated with a 3.3 in liberal arts. Trust me, about 3x what you put into any one class in liberal arts is what the core sciences requires.

realmeaning said:

Thanks for the suggestion, it's nice to see an actual alternative written out.

Also, about the clubs-- are these clubs in addition to clinical experience and research? I don't see how I would have time for this even if I was the most organized and smartest of students. : (

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You'll have to find a way to figure it out. I know it worked out for me, but I was doing 2 hard labs + a fairly fluffy math (applied calculus) class at the time. I was doing monkey research too (3 hours) + clinical volunteer (4 hours) + non-clinical (2 hours) + Job (15-20 hours) + Club (4-6 hours). I would have been fairly miserable had I substituted that math class for a real science lab. Not that I was very happy at all.

realmeaning said:

That's definitely impressive that you were able to do that, props. I think I'll focus on my classes and clinical and monkey research, and the clubs will have to fall to the wayside. It's inspiring to hear of people who were able to do it all though. : )

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In all fairness, I got lucky that I had a job as a tutor at school which allowed me to study when it wasn't busy (about half the time) and the research was fairly straight forward with no outside work. When I did real research over the summer, I was easily doing 50 hours a week.

johnnyscans said:

Agreed. If I were in your shoes I would save Calc I and Calc II for my gap year. Take Calc I in the fall. If you find you're accepted into a program that requires it, then take Calc II in the spring. I'm 95% sure that Calc, when required, is a matriculation requirement, not an application requirement.

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There's, what? Two? Three? Schools that require Calc? And I believe they're research heavy/PhD/MD schools, I've never personally heard of a school that requires Calc II. Honestly, the only reason I took Calc at all was because the major I've decided to pursue (Business) requires it-otherwise I would have stopped at pre-calc.

realmeaning said:

Thanks for the suggestion, it's nice to see an actual alternative written out.

Also, about the clubs-- are these clubs in addition to clinical experience and research? I don't see how I would have time for this even if I was the most organized and smartest of students. : (

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There are other sources of leadership besides academic clubs.

The whole goal here is to get and remain involved in activities that are not only interesting to you, but help to demonstrate your ability to work as part of a team, lead, commit to a cause, etc.

TriagePreMed said:

You can't plan for research like that if you're really looking for independent research. If you just want to be a lab monkey, you can do 6-10, but a real project can take you 20 or so hours a week. Then on top of that you need club leadership (another 10 hours to your schedule) and volunteer work for both medical and non-medical (6 or so hours).

You graduated with a 3.3 in liberal arts. Trust me, about 3x what you put into any one class in liberal arts is what the core sciences requires.

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100% agree with this.

MedPR said:

100% agree with this.

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+1 Though, to be fair, other than occasional heavy reading/writing requirements, liberal arts courses tend to be the epitome of effortless. I've had weeks in physics that took more work than months of liberal arts classes.