Only 54% of physicians would choose medicine again as a career

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...just over half of all physicians (54%) would choose medicine again as a career..., reports MedScape Today.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/761870

I hate these stats because they mean nothing for the people that read them. If 1 person saw this and decided they would switch careers midway through med school because they think they should have chosen something else I will be surprised.

If advising premeds using this stat, what viable options would you give them that is as rewarding, stable, and lucrative? Banking (the usual go-to) is certainly not stable, and despite what the Wall Street movie might have you think, most are not raking in cash. Entrepreneurship is as vague as any answer you could give. Dentistry is the only option that comes to mind and last I read they were pretty happy.

I feel like they report that every week.

I may one day regret the whole ordeal (only 2 years into medical school and I have had many days where I wonder why the hell I didn't just get an engineering job like my friends), but I know for a fact that if I hadn't decided to go to medical school I would 100% regret it and always wonder "what if..."

I think there was a different expectation of what medicine would be like for a lot of older physicians -- respect, autonomy, high pay, etc.

Now we know that we'll be government slaves making $40k under Reichsfuhrer Obama. Our expectations are low, ergo we will be happier. (Partially kidding).

I wonder what percent of people in law or other professions regret going into their field. Probably those who are unemployed would have an even greater level of regret.

Originally Posted by dr zaius

... but I know for a fact that if I hadn't decided to go to medical school I would 100% regret it and always wonder "what if..."

Exactly!!! I bet the percentage of physicians who this applies to is way higher than 54%. Therefore, many of them would still have entered medicine.

If I could do everything over again, I would definitely have moved to the beach of my own private island surrounded by beautiful half-naked women.

Oh well...hindsight is 20/20 right?

Originally Posted by seelee

If I could do everything over again, I would definitely have moved to the beach of my own private island surrounded by beautiful half-naked women.

Oh well...hindsight is 20/20 right?

You still can. Do-overs don't usually involve winning the lottery though, you'd have to earn that one, haha.

These results are probably heavily influenced by the uncertainty behind the PPACA/healthcare reform. Will be interesting to see if the figures change much when the political dust settles.

Originally Posted by ccmonopolies

...just over half of all physicians (54%) would choose medicine again as a career..., reports MedScape Today.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/761870

These are pretty good #'s.

I'm sure if you polled American workers, lots of jobs would have only 20% who would chose their job again.

Good job docs.

Originally Posted by Valadi

I hate these stats because they mean nothing for the people that read them. If 1 person saw this and decided they would switch careers midway through med school because they think they should have chosen something else I will be surprised.

If advising premeds using this stat, what viable options would you give them that is as rewarding, stable, and lucrative? Banking (the usual go-to) is certainly not stable, and despite what the Wall Street movie might have you think, most are not raking in cash. Entrepreneurship is as vague as any answer you could give. Dentistry is the only option that comes to mind and last I read they were pretty happy.

I wouldn't say they are insignificant, although there can be some selection bias.

I don't think you can make anything of these #'s unless you were to poll other careers and see their #'s. Naive people think other careers have 85-100% career satisfaction.

Originally Posted by VisionaryTics

I think there was a different expectation of what medicine would be like for a lot of older physicians -- respect, autonomy, high pay, etc.

Now we know that we'll be government slaves making $40k under Reichsfuhrer Obama. Our expectations are low, ergo we will be happier. (Partially kidding).

I feel like your picture always makes everything you say funnier.

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

I wouldn't say they are insignificant, although there can be some selection bias.

I don't think you can make anything of these #'s unless you were to poll other careers and see their #'s. Naive people think other careers have 85-100% career satisfaction.

Significance has nothing to do with it.. There is nothing being tested here..

I totally agree with your second statement. 50% seems fairly decent to me.

Originally Posted by VisionaryTics

I think there was a different expectation of what medicine would be like for a lot of older physicians -- respect, autonomy, high pay, etc.

Now we know that we'll be government slaves making $40k under Reichsfuhrer Obama. Our expectations are low, ergo we will be happier. (Partially kidding).

Reichsfuhrer, hahaha

The grass is not greener.

Physicians assume they can succeed in ANY field and rightfully so. Yet, if you pollother professionals i wonder how many would say they would choose other careers if they could have been ANYTHING else

Also i wonder if medicine by virtue of training rquirements selects for people who are more likely to be unhappy rgardless of their ultimate career selection

Originally Posted by FunnyCurrent

Also i wonder if medicine by virtue of training rquirements selects for people who are more likely to be unhappy rgardless of their ultimate career selection

It's funny that people automatically assume that 54% is a bad #.

Do you realize how many people change careers?

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

It's funny that people automatically assume that 54% is a bad #.

Do you realize how many people change careers?

Yes. I wonder what the number is for the general population. I would wager much higher than 54%. "The grass is always greener on the other side" is one of the biggest mistakes in human thinking that i know. I also think that amount of student loan debt plays is a big factor in this poll (those with >150k being much more likely to say they would have done something else).

Ultimately, many docs are absolutely clueless about how difficult, frustrating, or absolutely mind-numbing other career paths are. I am damn glad I won't be spending thousands of days of my life sitting in a a cubicle punching in excel spreadhseets.

Originally Posted by SchroedingrsCat

Yes. I wonder what the number is for the general population. I would wager much higher than 54%. "The grass is always greener on the other side" is one of the biggest mistakes in human thinking that i know. I also think that amount of student loan debt plays is a big factor in this poll (those with >150k being much more likely to say they would have done something else).

Ultimately, many docs are absolutely clueless about how difficult, frustrating, or absolutely mind-numbing other career paths are. I am damn glad I won't be spending thousands of days of my life sitting in a a cubicle punching in excel spreadhseets.

Yep. Never take for granted being able to move around and interact with people during your job. You might not like it ALL the time, but it's much better than sitting in front of a computer for 8+ hrs every damn day.

Frankly, doctors have inflated egos and often assume they will be the best at any field they go into. When you ask physicians what they would rather be doing, you don't get answers like lawyer or consultant, you get answers like Supreme Court justice and CEO.

If you have an unrealistic view of your other options, of course you might regret a certain career path.

You won't find many jobs in the world where over half of those working it would choose it again. Besides, didn't we all spend four years getting comparative studied beat into our brains? Sure, it's 54%, but compared to what? We have no way to gauge what 54% even means.

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

It's funny that people automatically assume that 54% is a bad #.

Do you realize how many people change careers?

True but medicine is unique in the amount of time, debt and sacrifice that it takes to become a doctor. Changing careers away from medicine is a bigger deal than most other career changes. It is not to be taken lightly.

Originally Posted by FunnyCurrent

Also i wonder if medicine by virtue of training rquirements selects for people who are more likely to be unhappy rgardless of their ultimate career selection

I think there is truth in this. Many of the "qualities" that get one into and through med school don't translate well into the practice of modern, American medicine. Doing work that you are trained to do but emotionally ill suited for will cause unhappiness.

Originally Posted by docB

I think there is truth in this. Many of the "qualities" that get one into and through med school don't translate well into the practice of modern, American medicine. Doing work that you are trained to do but emotionally ill suited for will cause unhappiness.

I think that falsely externalizes the unhappiness of physicians. Personally, I think a career as a physician (and most other competitive careers) selectively chooses for people predisposed by genetics or personality to being unhappy.

The people predisposed to happiness got off the train a few stops back. They finished high school, tech school, undergrad, or a master's and thought: "This is alright. I'm done busting my ass, I can be happy here." It's the people who aren't happy that are going to push on to medical school, residency, fellowship, etc in a constant search for something better.

As you ride the train further and further, the balance in the population shifts away from people pursuing a goal that will actually make them happy and toward people hoping to the next thing will finally be good enough...

Originally Posted by DeadCactus

I think that falsely externalizes the unhappiness of physicians. Personally, I think a career as a physician (and most other competitive careers) selectively chooses for people predisposed by genetics or personality to being unhappy.

The people predisposed to happiness got off the train a few stops back. They finished high school, tech school, undergrad, or a master's and thought: "This is alright. I'm done busting my ass, I can be happy here." It's the people who aren't happy that are going to push on to medical school, residency, fellowship, etc in a constant search for something better.

As you ride the train further and further, the balance in the population shifts away from people pursuing a goal that will actually make them happy and toward people hoping to the next thing will finally be good enough...

It takes a certain kind of neuroticism to choose to be a student from the age of 5 until 35.

Originally Posted by DeadCactus

I think that falsely externalizes the unhappiness of physicians. Personally, I think a career as a physician (and most other competitive careers) selectively chooses for people predisposed by genetics or personality to being unhappy.

The people predisposed to happiness got off the train a few stops back. They finished high school, tech school, undergrad, or a master's and thought: "This is alright. I'm done busting my ass, I can be happy here." It's the people who aren't happy that are going to push on to medical school, residency, fellowship, etc in a constant search for something better.

As you ride the train further and further, the balance in the population shifts away from people pursuing a goal that will actually make them happy and toward people hoping to the next thing will finally be good enough...

I think we're both saying the same thing, we're just emphesizing different aspects of it.

You're point about getting off the train is well taken. Medical students must be driven enough to keep pushing and pushing and delaying gratification. I think that most of us worked with the ideal that once our educations were complete we would be guarenteed some things like the ability and autonomy to practice medicine and make a better than average living. The reality is that the medicine one practices is at best half of the work load the rest being given over to documentation, billing, regulatory compliance, social work, etc. That is draining and usually futile.

Originally Posted by VisionaryTics

It takes a certain kind of neuroticism to choose to be a student from the age of 5 until 35.

Eh, being a resident is more like having an entry level job than being a student. You get low salaries for 5 years while being trained on the job, then take a massive leap after 5-7 years. It's really only an extra 4 years of true "schooling"

nm

Originally Posted by Dr Love

Frankly, doctors have inflated egos and often assume they will be the best at any field they go into. When you ask physicians what they would rather be doing, you don't get answers like lawyer or consultant, you get answers like Supreme Court justice and CEO.

If you have an unrealistic view of your other options, of course you might regret a certain career path.

You nailed it here. Doctors think they would be top of the heap in any profession, but most of them don't know how to balance a checkbook much less run a business.

Originally Posted by Dr Love

Frankly, doctors have inflated egos and often assume they will be the best at any field they go into. When you ask physicians what they would rather be doing, you don't get answers like lawyer or consultant, you get answers like Supreme Court justice and CEO.

If you have an unrealistic view of your other options, of course you might regret a certain career path.

Haha, my friend tells me he'd be an investment banker if it wasn't for medicine. I'm like dude, the ivy business schools are full of people who failed to become multimillionaire i-bankers. Good luck with that....


I think there's some truth in most of what people have said before:

1. 54% compared to what? You need to see stats for other professions (and not something crazy like 'supreme court justice' - another profession that is as large (or close to it) as physicians are.
2. If we take as a premise that there's a certain personality that goes into medicine (I"m not sure I'd buy that necessarily but assume that it is true), then we have to think about whether that personality might have similar number regardless - or if 54% would be unusually high compared to what people with similar characteristics would feel in any other profession.
3. I wonder what the % would be if you separated it out by people who 'knew the realities' and had appropriate (e.g realistically applicable) motivations vs. people who thought they'd be multi millionaires at 40 working 9-4 M-Th being a pediatrics radiodermoneurosurgeon.

Originally Posted by boggvir

Haha, my friend tells me he'd be an investment banker if it wasn't for medicine. I'm like dude, the ivy business schools are full of people who failed to become multimillionaire i-bankers. Good luck with that....


I think there's some truth in most of what people have said before:

1. 54% compared to what? You need to see stats for other professions (and not something crazy like 'supreme court justice' - another profession that is as large (or close to it) as physicians are.
2. If we take as a premise that there's a certain personality that goes into medicine (I"m not sure I'd buy that necessarily but assume that it is true), then we have to think about whether that personality might have similar number regardless - or if 54% would be unusually high compared to what people with similar characteristics would feel in any other profession.
3. I wonder what the % would be if you separated it out by people who 'knew the realities' and had appropriate (e.g realistically applicable) motivations vs. people who thought they'd be multi millionaires at 40 working 9-4 M-Th being a pediatrics radiodermoneurosurgeon.

I dont think the majority people had completely unreasonable expectations. I do think thought that the reality of medicine is alot different from reasonable expecations though. Like docb said half of what he does is clerical bs and other associaited nonsense thats only really there because of beaucracy and malpractice.

I think it really hard to see that side of medicine because youre so insulated from it as a pre med or even 1st and 2nd year. I mean if some pre med student asked to shadow me Im not gonna be like "ok here is all the paper work I have to do lets go through all my notes blah blah blah" Im gonna try to make it interesting for the couple hours they are there. Even as a third year I get insulated from it, residents tell me they got nonsense to do and tell me I can go eat or study or whatever.

tl;dr: you dont see how much (little?) medicine happens cuz youre not exposed to all the paperwork, etc. So when you do get out there its not exactly what you thought it would be.

Originally Posted by Dr Oops

I dont think the majority people had completely unreasonable expectations. I do think thought that the reality of medicine is alot different from reasonable expecations though. Like docb said half of what he does is clerical bs and other associaited nonsense thats only really there because of beaucracy and malpractice.

I think it really hard to see that side of medicine because youre so insulated from it as a pre med or even 1st and 2nd year. I mean if some pre med student asked to shadow me Im not gonna be like "ok here is all the paper work I have to do lets go through all my notes blah blah blah" Im gonna try to make it interesting for the couple hours they are there. Even as a third year I get insulated from it, residents tell me they got nonsense to do and tell me I can go eat or study or whatever.

tl;dr: you dont see how much (little?) medicine happens cuz youre not exposed to all the paperwork, etc. So when you do get out there its not exactly what you thought it would be.

Yeah, I think the majority of premeds fall into 2 categories
1. Idealistic "I want to help people" type
2. Money-hungry

I have never met a person who said, "I want to see patients for chronic conditions that they fail to take my advice for and spend hours on the phone with insurance companies trying to get reimbursed for my services."

If medicine is so bad

Why do 40-50% of applicants have a doctor in the family???


Ud think they would say no


I've NEVER met a doctor who said avoid medschool

Originally Posted by se20001984

If medicine is so bad

Why do 40-50% of applicants have a doctor in the family???


Ud think they would say no


I've NEVER met a doctor who said avoid medschool

You probably don't know that many doctors then. While I agree that most doctors are happy, there are plenty of disgruntled ones out there

Originally Posted by cowme

You probably don't know that many doctors then. While I agree that most doctors are happy, there are plenty of disgruntled ones out there

Originally Posted by cowme

Eh, being a resident is more like having an entry level job than being a student. You get low salaries for 5 years while being trained on the job, then take a massive leap after 5-7 years. It's really only an extra 4 years of true "schooling"

This. Once you start residency, you're really not a student anymore. It is like an entry level job--which many smart people work for a number of years, fighting for small promotions only to get laid off after 10 or 15 years and have to start over. And they spend plenty of time doing BS paperwork.....

Originally Posted by docB

The reality is that the medicine one practices is at best half of the work load the rest being given over to documentation, billing, regulatory compliance, social work, etc. That is draining and usually futile.

This is not my experience. When on the clinical service doing daily rounds, I spend about 30 minutes signing (EMR) and annotating resident notes. I don't do billing. Regulatory compliance - not sure what you mean, but it isn't a big part of what I do. Social work? If that means family centered care, I don't find it burdensome. Etc? Eh, there are headaches at any job related to administration, I find mine to be mild-moderate, mostly mild.

Overall, when on the clinical service, I would estimate that I spend 80-90% of my time doing what I consider to be useful things. As always when we have had this type of conversation, YMMV and I am only referring to my personal experience as a salaried academic pediatric specialist at a large, extremely well-run children's hospital.

Originally Posted by oldbearprofessor

This is not my experience. When on the clinical service doing daily rounds, I spend about 30 minutes signing (EMR) and annotating resident notes. I don't do billing. Regulatory compliance - not sure what you mean, but it isn't a big part of what I do. Social work? If that means family centered care, I don't find it burdensome. Etc? Eh, there are headaches at any job related to administration, I find mine to be mild-moderate, mostly mild.

Overall, when on the clinical service, I would estimate that I spend 80-90% of my time doing what I consider to be useful things. As always when we have had this type of conversation, YMMV and I am only referring to my personal experience as a salaried academic pediatric specialist at a large, extremely well-run children's hospital.

Hence, pediatricians have high job satisfaction.

Btw, I thought everyone would find this interesting. Another professional career satisfaction survey:

Half of lawyers are dissatisfied with their careers and only 4/10 would recommend a legal career to others.

http://legalcareers.about.com/b/2008...tisfaction.htm
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/a...al_profession/

Disenchantment with the legal profession is pervasive among both new and seasoned attorneys. In a recent survey by the American Bar Association, 800 lawyers revealed their thoughts about life as a lawyer and the state of the profession. The survey revealed some disturbing facts:

Almost half of the lawyers surveyed reported dissatisfaction with their careers.
Only 4 in 10 lawyers said they would recommend a legal career to others.
Lawyers also agonized about long hours, rising litigation costs, a decrease in civility among lawyers and work-life balance.

Why the dismal job satisfaction report? The majority of the lawyers stated that law schools do a poor job of training young lawyers for the practice. In addition, many lawyers enter the profession for the wrong reasons, believing that a legal career is the ticket to prestige, glamour and big money.

Originally Posted by Rothbard

i don't think you can use "career change" as a fair metric to compare careers, as it's pretty hard to leave medicine once you're in. most people are stuck in medicine whether they like it or not because they have debt to pay, and by the time they've paid it off they're at an age when most people feel they're too old to change careers.

Oh no, "trapped in medicine" because a few years of public service or living off of $75k instead of $200k to pay off loans quickly is just too much. You can be trapped in a valley or trapped on a mountain but the latter has a hell of a nicer view...

Originally Posted by DeadCactus

Oh no, "trapped in medicine" because a few years of public service or living off of $75k instead of $200k to pay off loans quickly is just too much. You can be trapped in a valley or trapped on a mountain but the latter has a hell of a nicer view...

Survival rates are probably better in the valley though "Trapped" is a state of mind.

This link is on the page OP pasted, but it will take you directly to the comparison charts breaking down the survey according to various specialties:

http://www.medscape.com/features/sli...lk&firstbullet

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

Hence, pediatricians have high job satisfaction.

Btw, I thought everyone would find this interesting. Another professional career satisfaction survey:

Half of lawyers are dissatisfied with their careers and only 4/10 would recommend a legal career to others.

http://legalcareers.about.com/b/2008...tisfaction.htm
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/a...al_profession/

I thought it'd be worse. I don't think I've met a lawyer who would recommend going to law school. In fact, it seems like most of the people I've met who apply to law school haven't even talked to many lawyers...

Originally Posted by cowme

You probably don't know that many doctors then. While I agree that most doctors are happy, there are plenty of disgruntled ones out there

An older, not-quite-happy-seeming male OB/GYN strongly hinted that I should stay away from medicine. I hear it may not be a surprising point-of-view from this particular doctor population.

Originally Posted by Cinclus

An older, not-quite-happy-seeming male OB/GYN strongly hinted that I should stay away from medicine. I hear it may not be a surprising point-of-view from this particular doctor population.

As an anecdote I know quite a few OB/GYNs that enjoy their job. I think a lot of it is situational and dictated in large part by administration, location, and patient population.

Originally Posted by calvnandhobbs68

I thought it'd be worse. I don't think I've met a lawyer who would recommend going to law school. In fact, it seems like most of the people I've met who apply to law school haven't even talked to many lawyers...

My mother is an attorney and it's not the lucrative career many believe it to be. If you're actually in the criminal court system in a small-medium sized area the reimbursement for court-appointments, for example, is abysmal.

Of course, my mother didn't go to law school so she started debt free. In many states you can study law on your own, under the guidance of an attorney (who cannot charge you for doing so), and sit for the bar exam.

I don't find the satisfaction level among attorneys in this area to be very high. There are some who have really enjoyed their careers but there are certainly more who don't seem to at all.