Accepted to MD school for 2012: probably failing my last pre-medschool course

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Hi guys, I'd appreciate your advice since I'm in a bit of a pickle.

I will be attending a US MD school starting this fall.

I did an SMP, and the school wants grades from it as I complete it. That's cool - I completed it last semester, got good grades, everything is OK.

The school's policy is that it requests transcripts "from any institution where a degree was given".

I am taking this to mean, certainly, it wants my undergrad transcript, and my SMP transcript. If you're following me, there's no problem yet.

In between my undergrad and my SMP, I did a post-bacc. I accumulated enough post-bacc credits for a second degree. I'm now doing study abroad with that school, taking grammar and medical school classes in a foreign country in a foreign language. I will be graduating with a second bachelors from this school this coming December, after med school starts.

My excellent post-bacc grades were absolutely a part of my med school acceptance - I had met with the dean of admissions and we had discussed my post-bacc grades over the couple years he worked with me before I applied. My post-bacc institution even wrote my committee letter. Due to an email I sent out in January, my future med school is aware I am pursuing a second bachelors at this school to be completed at some point.

Three of this semester's grades are in. All grammar classes, one B two A's. The fourth is cardiology. At a top foreign medical school. I'm trying to learn the theory behind EKG's here in a foreign language and as time consuming as med school is in the language you really know - it's 1000 times worse in a language you don't. I'll be the first one to admit, though, I didn't treat this semester like a serious med student.

So, with about two weeks to go until my exam, I've covered the material on 4 of 30 lectures, I don't think I have any chance of covering all of this physio in two weeks, though I'll try my hardest. I have a very real chance of an F here, at an international medical school, that - because i am doing this through a study abroad program - will transfer into credits at my post-bacc institution as an F as well.

Grades will get back to america in july, and my post-bacc institution will then convert the grades, and so I'm assuming this F is placed on my transcript in August if I fail.

Transcripts are due for incoming students for my med school in July, so I just went ahead and sent my post-bacc transcript two days ago (should have waited until i posted here before making any rash decisions ).

Tl;dr: About to fail a foreign language physiology course in a foreign university that will have my grade transferred back to my post-bacc institution, not sure if transcript is necessary but transcript sent already, not sure if failing will get me kicked out of med school. Also, withdrawing (or failing too?) would take me from 12 to 9 credits - and that might have disastrous consequences for the loans that got me here? Maybe, maybe not?

How much trouble am I in?

What should I do?

Edit: the transcript i already just sent from my post-bacc institution will presumably just say "study abroad spring 2012 grades pending"

If you're provably going to fail I'd withdraw. Better to explain a few things to finaid officers rather than having your acceptance rescinded.

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

If you're provably going to fail I'd withdraw. Better to explain a few things to finaid officers rather than having your acceptance rescinded.

Thanks for your response, drizzt. Based on your preliminary recommendation, I immediately called my post-bacc's registrar, and they told me there are dates after which you cannot withdraw. They told me that their dates could be different than the study abroad office's dates, so I should check with them, but 4 months into a 4 1/2 month course it looks like I'm going to be past the date to be able to withdraw. I was just told that if that is the case, it's possible they could allow a Dean to overturn that, but it would be up to the Dean. If it's in my best case to pursue that, I would sent my best email possible to the Dean to pray for that hail mary.

Any other advice by anyone, regarding what I should do now, or thoughts on whether this will matter or if I should contact and/or try to work with my med school, etc. would be appreciated

study 16 hours a day for the next two weeks and pull out a C, pretend you're studying for your Step1.

Talked to my study abroad adviser. If I withdraw I fall below full time, loose good standing with the uni ---> immediate loss of 9k financial aid, possibly 5k scholarship. he said if that's the case it will be better for me to fail and for me to document what i've completed in the class (labs, etc.) before the final exam and prepare for the possibility of a grade appeal state-side on the grounds that the exam was out of the blue and too tough/differnt for an american, or something.

I'm going to email the prof looking for ways to help, im going to study my butt off for 14 days.

Anyone think it would be a good idea to call my med school?

I should note that I'm taking this class for enrichment, not for a program required for med school at all

Originally Posted by startoverat40

study 16 hours a day for the next two weeks and pull out a C, pretend you're studying for your Step1.

This is motivation. Thank you, I really appreciate it

Originally Posted by ilovelanguages

Talked to my study abroad adviser. If I withdraw I fall below full time, loose good standing with the uni ---> immediate loss of 9k financial aid, possibly 5k scholarship. he said if that's the case it will be better for me to fail and for me to document what i've completed in the class (labs, etc.) before the final exam and prepare for the possibility of a grade appeal state-side on the grounds that the exam was out of the blue and too tough/differnt for an american, or something.

I'm going to email the prof looking for ways to help, im going to study my butt off for 14 days.

Anyone think it would be a good idea to call my med school?

I should note that I'm taking this class for enrichment, not for a program required for med school at all




This is motivation. Thank you, I really appreciate it

Eh I think your financial aid person is an idiot. I'd take the $ hit rather than risk an MD acceptance. What's he going to say to you if you fail the class, the school rescinds the acceptance but hey you kept the $ - sorry?

You've got two weeks - study your butt off. Two weeks is enough time to get a passing grade.

If it were me, if I thought I had a GOOD shot at getting the dean to approve withdrawing from the course/etc and I thought I had an absolutely terrible chance at passing, that's the option I would go for. But it looks like you have a meh shot at withdrawing, and a decent chance of passing. I wouldn't half a** all the possible options cause it's draining from anything you want to do. I would go 100% into study mode for the next two weeks and nothing else. But that's just me.

I'd probably talk to the med school and see what they say - what happens if you don't pass a class does the thing become rescinded/how does a withdrawal look/etc. It didn't sound like you had a conditional acceptance letter. If you're worried they might note it on your record, just leave out your name. But I have ZERO experience with this, so take this paragraph with a grain of salt. It might give you peace of mind if they're like oh it's not a conditional acceptance, we don't care about this secondary bachelor's degree/etc etc. I would still study my butt off anyways.

Originally Posted by Lbgem

It didn't sound like you had a conditional acceptance letter. If you're worried they might note it on your record, just leave out your name.

I'm going to call home and double check the wording of my acceptance letter. I'm 95% sure it was conditional - on completion of my masters (which i did last semester). And just that. Regardless, it looks like don't look back and study my ass off is the option that is winning out

"This acceptance is contingent upon....final verification by AMCAS, acceptable completion of academic requirements, our receipt of "official" final transcripts, compliance with immunizations..."

"Please also note...you must complete your masters degree."

Originally Posted by ilovelanguages

Thanks for your response, drizzt. Based on your preliminary recommendation, I immediately called my post-bacc's registrar, and they told me there are dates after which you cannot withdraw. They told me that their dates could be different than the study abroad office's dates, so I should check with them, but 4 months into a 4 1/2 month course it looks like I'm going to be past the date to be able to withdraw. I was just told that if that is the case, it's possible they could allow a Dean to overturn that, but it would be up to the Dean. If it's in my best case to pursue that, I would sent my best email possible to the Dean to pray for that hail mary.

Any other advice by anyone, regarding what I should do now, or thoughts on whether this will matter or if I should contact and/or try to work with my med school, etc. would be appreciated

Have you applied for the second degree yet? If you are sure you only need to provide transcript for degree offering I stitutions then just don't apply for the degree.... you're already in Med school so a second bachelors is meaningless.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

Have you applied for the second degree yet? If you are sure you only need to provide transcript for degree offering I stitutions then just don't apply for the degree.... you're already in Med school so a second bachelors is meaningless.

I have been a "second-degree student" at post-bacc u since i was admitted there - it was the only way to register for classes. For the year I was at post-bacc U i never had any intention of getting a degree and med school knew it. a year and a summer later i took the only couple courses i needed to fulfill degree requirements, and i possibly foolishly notified med school this jan that i intend to receive a degree there at some point.

Question: since based on the wording of my acceptance letter, my needs are acceptable completion of "academic requirements", and this is by far not an academic requirement, if they request the transcript with these grades and there's an F, (which would be in august/september), would I have a possible case in this F not being part of my acceptance agreement, and possibly lawyer up if worst case scenario comes into play?

Originally Posted by ilovelanguages

I have been a "second-degree student" at post-bacc u since i was admitted there - it was the only way to register for classes. For the year I was at post-bacc U i never had any intention of getting a degree and med school knew it. a year and a summer later i took the only couple courses i needed to fulfill degree requirements, and i possibly foolishly notified med school this jan that i intend to receive a degree there at some point.

Question: since based on the wording of my acceptance letter, my needs are acceptable completion of "academic requirements", and this is by far not an academic requirement, if they request the transcript with these grades and there's an F, (which would be in august/september), would I have a possible case in this F not being part of my acceptance agreement, and possibly lawyer up if worst case scenario comes into play?

Why have you not contacted the med school about this yet? The worst they're gonna say is that you have to not get an F...which is already what you're assuming.

Anyway if they say you have to pass it you have two weeks. Get a cardiology textbook in English and read it. There are plenty of EKG explanations/examples online if that's hanging you up. From there you should have an easier time going back and figuring out what everything says in whatever foreign language you're talking about. Ask the professor what you should focus on...he/she might have some mercy on you since you're a poor foreigner who isn't actually enrolled in med school there. If it were in 3 days I wouldn't be as positive but I really think you can pass with two weeks.

I really don't know what you were thinking though...taking a medical school class you don't have to take in a foreign language? Probably not your best idea ever.

Originally Posted by calvnandhobbs68

Why have you not contacted the med school about this yet? The worst they're gonna say is that you have to not get an F...which is already what you're assuming.

Anyway if they say you have to pass it you have two weeks. Get a cardiology textbook in English and read it. There are plenty of EKG explanations/examples online if that's hanging you up. From there you should have an easier time going back and figuring out what everything says in whatever foreign language you're talking about. Ask the professor what you should focus on...he/she might have some mercy on you since you're a poor foreigner who isn't actually enrolled in med school there. If it were in 3 days I wouldn't be as positive but I really think you can pass with two weeks.

I really don't know what you were thinking though...taking a medical school class you don't have to take in a foreign language? Probably not your best idea ever.

Thank you for the points. I just realized the gravity of my situation today - I'd prefer not to talk in the open with my med school admissions office about it, since they're considering me for scholarships - but I clearly know what is more important in this situation (it's not: keeping my minute chances at scholarship afloat at risk of my acceptance). Also, there is also the possibility that med school doesn't end up caring about the final final transcript from my post-bacc, since it was necessary as a pit stop two years ago and right now i'm academically enriching myself with some language classes. bottom line is that i didn't call admissions because i wanted to hear SDN's opinion and talk to my study abroad program director today before making any major decisions on reporting this possibility.

With regards to "what I was thinking": I finally feel naive in one of my (possible) failures. I just like learning about medicine, and I had a strong desire to do something that could help those that only speak Spanish in the impoverished community in which my medical school is. I'm not lashing back at you - you're right, this was a pretty crazy decision and not one to take as lightly as I suppose i did. But, I did it with good intentions.

There's nothing wrong with what you were thinking, I would have probably done the same thing.

U GOT DIS!

Turn up the heat.

One of my friends lost her only med school acceptance after failing a class in her final semester. Her bachelor's degree wasn't that useful in her job search, so she got a master's degree. She's still having trouble finding any kind of job, and it's been ~5-6 years since she failed that class.

Don't fail the class. You may never get another chance at med school.

Originally Posted by TheProwler

Turn up the heat.

One of my friends lost her only med school acceptance after failing a class in her final semester. Her bachelor's degree wasn't that useful in her job search, so she got a master's degree. She's still having trouble finding any kind of job, and it's been ~5-6 years since she failed that class.

That's ...kinda depressing.

Originally Posted by TheProwler

Turn up the heat.

One of my friends lost her only med school acceptance after failing a class in her final semester. Her bachelor's degree wasn't that useful in her job search, so she got a master's degree. She's still having trouble finding any kind of job, and it's been ~5-6 years since she failed that class.

Don't fail the class. You may never get another chance at med school.

Yah I knew a guy who failed a class because he thought he wasn't going to get off the waitlist at the one med school where he got waitlisted, no acceptances in hand. Ended up failing the course, getting off the waitlist, and then having his acceptance rescinded.

Reapplied the next year and never got in. He did eventually end up getting into podiatry school after working a few years.

I would assume that your med school is going to find out about your grades. It is better if you are honest and upfront about your situation rather than them finding out about on their own. I also have heard a couple anecdotal horror stories about rescinded acceptances. Most places take the honor code stuff pretty seriously, just don't try and pull a fast one.

I agree with the others, study, study, study and you can do this. Find some good ECG tutorials online in English. There are tons of resources out there. I would say we had about two weeks to study ECG for our med school cardio course, so just look at is a warm up, and it is doable. Good luck!

What language is this if I may ask?

Originally Posted by Hermeneutics

What language is this if I may ask?

Spanish. My goal is to be able to better help those who only speak Spanish (frequently medicaid/ of low socioeconomic status in my public hospital) in the hospital setting. This course and this semester have assured me that I have completed my goal. I will be a better physician because of this.


I've been accepted to medical school for about ten months, and have made every decision since then with the intent on making myself a stronger future medical student and physician. Crazy how it can all be taken away from me before it even starts. I'm studying my hardest right now. Finished the hard part, which was EKG's, how doing cardiomechanics and things i've seen in grad and undergrad courses. Hopefully my speed picks up and i can start knocking thinks out; i've still only done about 5/30 topics covered. 11 days left. waiting on response from prof to meet with him

Originally Posted by ilovelanguages

Spanish. My goal is to be able to better help those who only speak Spanish (frequently medicaid/ of low socioeconomic status in my public hospital) in the hospital setting. This course and this semester have assured me that I have completed my goal. I will be a better physician because of this.


I've been accepted to medical school for about ten months, and have made every decision since then with the intent on making myself a stronger future medical student and physician. Crazy how it can all be taken away from me before it even starts. I'm studying my hardest right now. Finished the hard part, which was EKG's, how doing cardiomechanics and things i've seen in grad and undergrad courses. Hopefully my speed picks up and i can start knocking thinks out; i've still only done about 5/30 topics covered. 11 days left. waiting on response from prof to meet with him

Why in God's name did you not start working on this until there were 2 weeks left in a 4 month course!?

Originally Posted by VisionaryTics

Why in God's name did you not start working on this until there were 2 weeks left in a 4 month course!?

This too... Just a piece of advice, don't let yourself get this far behind in med school or you will never catch up. The pace is just too fast and there is exponentially more material.

Originally Posted by VisionaryTics

Why in God's name did you not start working on this until there were 2 weeks left in a 4 month course!?

Appreciate all the thoughts. I have been working on this class for a while, just haven't dedicated myself to it like a medical school course. Perfect labs, attendance and work in small groups. Pre-labbed every week, etc. Went to class. Outside of that, I guess I treated this semester abroad like all the kids just taking spanish grammar classes, which were easy for all of us. i suppose i wanted to have my cake and eat it too - learn some med school spanish while treating the semester like a non-med school semester. Who the heck wants to go abroad and sit in a library every day? This goes back to this course being a poor choice for me off the bat.

Originally Posted by Limetime

This too... Just a piece of advice, don't let yourself get this far behind in med school or you will never catch up. The pace is just too fast and there is exponentially more material.

Good point. I rebut it just to ensure the thread does not devolve into Burnett's law: I applied to med school with a 4.0 SMP GPA, never having received anything below honors in a medical school course. I didn't treat my time in Europe like med school - that's for sure and perhaps that's my fault. I have every intention of keeping up in med school and shooting for grades I'm proud of. I'm nervous about the possible "fail exam and you fail the class" rule in this country (will have to check if the prof subscribes to those rules), and I'm nervous about the fact that people in this program (nobody ever having taken a med school class here) have indeed failed finals before by foreign-language/foreign-system shock - showing up to the exam and saying "i did not expect this at all".

bottom line, I should have taken badminton for credit as my fourth class, and audited this.

I'm studying my hardest as SDN suggested.


If you were me, would you contact my school to learn the policy right now, in the event that you were to fail (the argument here being that they might be more lenient if you talk to them beforehand and not after the fact). Would you not talk to the school at this point (the argument being they might not ask for another transcript, or might not care about the grade on a future transcript, unless you bring it to their attention, since this is not a required degree, not a required class)?

I'd also talk with the professor and let them know what failing means to you. And I'd work hard on learning the essentials (big points, not tiny details) in English if necessary before moving on to Spanish.

I'm not sure exactly how it works since this course I imagine is not an absolute pre-req requirement for med school acceptance, though I assume they want you to finish your degree. I'd definitely ask the medical school what would happen if you were to fail that course. I've got a classmate who started an MPH but didn't finish it before med school and he still takes courses to complete the degree. They might allow you to do this as a medical student if it's a matter of passing 1 class to finish that plan.

I would see if you could take an incomplete and take an "I" on your report card and finish the class a little later. That's what we used to do for our athletes when I was an academic counselor. They then completed the class over the summer or on a schedule that worked for the student and the professor.

Two steps:

1. Find out from the medical school if you can drop this course and still have your acceptance.

2. If so, drop it. If not, study hard and pass.

End.

Originally Posted by armybound

I'd also talk with the professor and let them know what failing means to you. And I'd work hard on learning the essentials (big points, not tiny details) in English if necessary before moving on to Spanish.

I'm not sure exactly how it works since this course I imagine is not an absolute pre-req requirement for med school acceptance, though I assume they want you to finish your degree. I'd definitely ask the medical school what would happen if you were to fail that course. I've got a classmate who started an MPH but didn't finish it before med school and he still takes courses to complete the degree. They might allow you to do this as a medical student if it's a matter of passing 1 class to finish that plan.

Your post makes me feel a bit better. This course means nothing. I already can graduate from this program - which is a second bachelors I am doing for my self - not for med school.

Originally Posted by BioChem15

I would see if you could take an incomplete and take an "I" on your report card and finish the class a little later. That's what we used to do for our athletes when I was an academic counselor. They then completed the class over the summer or on a schedule that worked for the student and the professor.

Unfortunately, in my situation this would mean a flight back to latin America later during the summer. Hoping to avoid that kind of situation.

Is it just EKG covered in your couse?

If so, see if you can get a copy of this...

http://www.amazon.com/Rapid-Interpre.../dp/0912912065