Medical School Curricula & Evaluation Spreadsheet

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Disclaimer: I have to confess, I've never seen an MSAR and I'm not sure if this sort of information is contained therein, but even if it is...

In the spirit of the Free SDN Matriculant Data project, and because I wanted to see a layout of this sort of information organized by school, I've created a spreadsheet of the first couple dozen schools with information each school's preclinical and clinical grading schemes, format of preclinical courses (block vs other), practice of ranking students within the class/disclosing this to residency programs, class attendance policy, time dedicated to students' preparation for Step 1, existence of AOA, requirement of a research thesis or project, and cited sources for the information I've been able to find so far. I just listed schools by their current rank in USNWR because that was an easy list to find.

If anyone else thinks this would be a nice resource to have and would like to contribute to it's completion, I can add your Google account to the editor list and allow you contribute information you find to the spreadsheet.

In addition, some of this information is very difficult to find, and it would be awesome if medical students here on SDN who attend a given school could help fill in the gaps.

Also, if someone would like to format the spreadsheet to look pretty like the matriculant data sheet does, that'd be welcome too.

Here it is: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0llcVk4b292ZHc

If there are errors and you're somehow affiliated with the school in question (MS0 that will be attending, current med student, whatever) please point out the corrections!

tl;dr - spreadsheet of schools by grading scheme and other policies, need help/contributions, hope it's helpful to someone!

Awesome. I'd be happy to contribute to this.

Pretty cool idea. It would be helpful if you listed PBL/Systems as well!

Once I'm done with this application cycle I'll gladly help with the research for this.

Pitt's preclinical grading is P/F (used to be H/P/F)

Originally Posted by GooseWing

Awesome. I'd be happy to contribute to this.

Great! Whenever you want to just PM your Google username and I'll add you to the editors list. Same goes for anyone else interested!

Originally Posted by MedPR

Pretty cool idea. It would be helpful if you listed PBL/Systems as well!

Once I'm done with this application cycle I'll gladly help with the research for this.

Ah, I thought about that earlier but never got around to adding a column for it. I guess we'd have to somehow describe the extent of PBL involvement? Think a systems vs non-systems layout should be a part of the block scheduling column or separate?

Originally Posted by jesse120

Pitt's preclinical grading is P/F (used to be H/P/F)

Ah thanks, reminds me I need to put something about corrections in the OP.

perhaps a column should be added for recorded lectures (audio/video)

Originally Posted by jesse120

perhaps a column should be added for recorded lectures (audio/video)

In your doc, you put that Emory is A/B/C/D/F for pre-clinical years.

However, according to the link you provided:

The letter grades A through F are used to record quality of work accomplished, except for the Foundations Phase of the Doctor of Medicine curriculum, elective courses and Clinical Medical Ethics, in which S indicates satisfactory work and U unsatisfactory work.

Emory uses the term "Foundations Phase" for the preclinical years, so it's actually unranked pass/fail in that part of the curriculum. Also, they have a required research project in the "Discovery" Phase.

Thanks for putting this together

Am I supposed to be able to edit the doc? I don't think it's allowed, currently. Or do we post our edits here?

Originally Posted by minerva3121

In your doc, you put that Emory is A/B/C/D/F for pre-clinical years.

However, according to the link you provided:



Emory uses the term "Foundations Phase" for the preclinical years, so it's actually unranked pass/fail in that part of the curriculum. Also, they have a required research project in the "Discovery" Phase.

Thanks for putting this together

Ah, good point, thanks for catching that!

Originally Posted by Cinclus

Am I supposed to be able to edit the doc? I don't think it's allowed, currently. Or do we post our edits here?

It's locked except for approved editors to keep trolls from filling the cells with...well you can imagine. That became a problem with the matriculant data spreadsheet. If you want to edit it just PM me your Google username and I'll add you to the editors list!

Edit: If you just want to point out a mistake or contribute a specific bit of info and don't care about the ability to go through and edit the sheet feel free to post here and someone with editing privileges will put it in.

This is a great idea! Kind of a minor fix, but could someone lock the first row so the headings can still be viewed when you scroll down?

Originally Posted by Lexicon0

This is a great idea! Kind of a minor fix, but could someone lock the first row so the headings can still be viewed when you scroll down?

Got it! So obvious and totally slipped my mind haha good call.

Alright, I've added what I think are all of the schools and sorted the sheet by school. Like I said some of this info is hard to find, so if you go to a particular school and can fact-check what we have or can contribute something that'd be awesome.

PM your Google username for edit privileges!

Add a column to include what the passing threshold is at each school (60/65/70)

Wow really amazing idea! Hopefully I can help in some way.

Univ Wisconsin - p/f m1, a/ab/b/bc/c/f m2-4, lectures recorded.

Nice initiative, GTLO!

How would you feel about adding a new column after the school's name for "State"? Then if one downloaded it (I presume that will eventually be possible, once it's filled in) one could resort the schools by that designation. Alternatively, new sheets could be added where the sheet is sorted in different ways, like by State.

Originally Posted by WiredEntropy

Add a column to include what the passing threshold is at each school (60/65/70)

This is probably going to be one of the more difficult pieces of information to find though...

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

Univ Wisconsin - p/f m1, a/ab/b/bc/c/f m2-4, lectures recorded.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Catalystik

Nice initiative, GTLO!

How would you feel about adding a new column after the school's name for "State"? Then if one downloaded it (I presume that will eventually be possible, once it's filled in) one could resort the schools by that designation. Alternatively, new sheets could be added where the sheet is sorted in different ways, like by State.

That's a great idea, I'll add a state column now. I think the sheet should be downloadable now, and since there aren't (and I don't think there will ever be) any formulae in this sheet, which is what made sorting the matriculant sheet problematic, downloading and resorting this one based on any given column should work.

I do think it will take a long time to complete this spreadsheet, and the best resources will be current students.

by systems-based do you guys mean you take 1 course about a particular system and learn all disciplines of it like anatomy, path, pharm, histo, etc?

Originally Posted by armybound

by systems-based do you guys mean you take 1 course about a particular system and learn all disciplines of it like anatomy, path, pharm, histo, etc?

Yeah that's what I thought. Is it ambiguous?

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

Yeah that's what I thought. Is it ambiguous?

I was just trying to be sure.

I think Duke's pre-clinical curriculum is P/F and unranked, instead of H/HP/P/F.

Also when talking about class attendance. I think you should distinguish between lectures and small group/PBL sessions. Because on Mt Sinai, it says mandatory, when actually a med student said the lecture:small group ratio is 3:1 with lectures being optional and small group being mandatory. I'm sure there are other schools like this? But nonetheless, great idea and so far a good job!

You can add for UMDNJ - New Brunswick (Robert Wood)

Preclinical = P/F
Clinical = H/HP/P/F
Block sched = yes
systems based = yes
PBL = yes
Class rank = yes but they don't tell you it. factors into you Dean's letter/AOA only
Attendance = mandatory for small group classes
Recordings = Audio for all
Step 1 prep = ~5 weeks
AOA/Junior AOA = Yes/Yes
Research thesis = Optional and receive distinction in research
Notes = A significant portion of the class takes a research year (not including MBA, JD, MPH, PhD people. Much more with them). I heard RWJ sent more people to Doris Duke/HHMI programs in recent years than any other.

This thread contains some data on P% http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=905111

Originally Posted by vitaminwater007

I think Duke's pre-clinical curriculum is P/F and unranked, instead of H/HP/P/F.

What I found seems to be vague:

A grading basis is established for each course with Curriculum Committee approval. Currently there are three grading schemes established: Pass/Fail; Pass/Fail/Honors; and Pass/High Pass/Honor/Fail.

But if we can get a Duke med student or someone who's interviewed there to clarify that'd be great.

Originally Posted by jHustle

Also when talking about class attendance. I think you should distinguish between lectures and small group/PBL sessions. Because on Mt Sinai, it says mandatory, when actually a med student said the lecture:small group ratio is 3:1 with lectures being optional and small group being mandatory. I'm sure there are other schools like this? But nonetheless, great idea and so far a good job!

Good point, sorry about that. I'll expand those cases to "Mandatory for small groups/PBL" or whatever is more appropriate.

Originally Posted by Valadi

You can add for UMDNJ - New Brunswick (Robert Wood)

Preclinical = P/F
Clinical = H/HP/P/F
Block sched = yes
systems based = yes
PBL = yes
Class rank = yes but they don't tell you it. factors into you Dean's letter/AOA only
Attendance = mandatory for small group classes
Recordings = Audio for all
Step 1 prep = ~5 weeks
AOA/Junior AOA = Yes/Yes
Research thesis = Optional and receive distinction in research
Notes = A significant portion of the class takes a research year (not including MBA, JD, MPH, PhD people. Much more with them). I heard RWJ sent more people to Doris Duke/HHMI programs in recent years than any other.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by WiredEntropy

This thread contains some data on P% http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=905111

That's a start, thanks.

I think you should add weeks you have to prepare for Step 1.

hey gettheleadout, I interviewed at Duke and was accepted, and I am almost certain Duke has made the preclinical year entirely P/F as of last year after listening to current student feedback, and it is also unranked.

The curriculum is in block format, they do integrate team-based learning (TBL) with lecture, and class attendance used to not be mandatory but from what I hear it now varies as TBL becomes more and more integrated. Also you might want to note that even though it's called a 1 year preclinical curriculum, it's more like an extended 1 year at 11 months long (longer than a normal first year at another med school) with a condensed curriculum, so it is not 2 years in 1 as some may believe!

You're right about the clinical grades though, it is variable H/HP/P/F for that like you have. Nice work with the spreadsheet!

Originally Posted by dermocrat88

I think you should add weeks you have to prepare for Step 1.

Already on there...

Originally Posted by vitaminwater007

hey gettheleadout, I interviewed at Duke and was accepted, and I am almost certain Duke has made the preclinical year entirely P/F as of last year after listening to current student feedback, and it is also unranked.

The curriculum is in block format, they do integrate team-based learning (TBL) with lecture, and class attendance used to not be mandatory but from what I hear it now varies as TBL becomes more and more integrated. Also you might want to note that even though it's called a 1 year preclinical curriculum, it's more like an extended 1 year at 11 months long (longer than a normal first year at another med school) with a condensed curriculum, so it is not 2 years in 1 as some may believe!

You're right about the clinical grades though, it is variable H/HP/P/F for that like you have. Nice work with the spreadsheet!

Ah okay, I'll adjust the Duke data. Thanks!

So, let's see...

LSU - NOLA

Grades preclinical = H/HP/P/F
P=?% = Varies
Grades clinical = H/HP/P/F
Block Scheduling = NO, Concurrent, tests all at the same time.
Systems-based = NO
PBL = Not in the purest definition. We have small groups for ethics and patient cases and we do diagnostic cases on our own, and discuss them later but we aren't teaching ourselves new information.The majority of the curriculum is still lecture-based. So, no/not really or some.
Class ranking = internal
Class Attendance = small groups, anatomy lab - yes; lecture - 95% optional. So varies if you just want to put that.
Lecture Recordings: Video starting Fall 2012 so I guess that's a yes.
STEP 1 prep time = ~6 weeks
AOA/Junior AOA = yes/yes
Additional Notes = OOS is now accepted more often.
Link: http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/medi...undergraduate/

Originally Posted by Dr McSexy

So, let's see...

LSU - NOLA

Thanks for the info! As far as attendance goes I'm just assuming anatomy labs and small group stuff is mandatory 99% of the time, so I'll just put optional in this case.

Great idea for a project! And much appreciated!

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

I do think it will take a long time to complete this spreadsheet, and the best resources will be current students.

The Free Matriculant Stats GoogleDoc largely took about a week. Maybe it will go faster than you think.

Originally Posted by Catalystik

The Free Matriculant Stats GoogleDoc largely took about a week. Maybe it will go faster than you think.

That is encouraging, I'm just worried some of this info won't be online and so will have to come from an SDN'er who knows firsthand.

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

That is encouraging, I'm just worried some of this info won't be online and so will have to come from an SDN'er who knows firsthand.

Too bad you can't double post with a link to the sheet over in Allo Forum.

Oh, wait, you're a Mod. Maybe you don't have to follow guidelines.

Originally Posted by Catalystik

Too bad you can't double post with a link to the sheet over in Allo Forum.

Oh, wait, you're a Mod. Maybe you don't have to follow guidelines.

That's such a great idea, I'll see if I can get an exception made.

I know your sheet currently covers academic policies only, but what do you think about broadening the focus and adding a column on healthcare coverage type/costs? As you know, some schools require one to provide their own policy, some have cheap broad, coverage (especially if they have a huge undergrad population), and others have expensive, restrictive coverage. Nontrads and those with pre-existing medical conditions, in particular, may need to limit their applications to schools where they can afford decent care, since parental policies may no longer cover them or may not cover them adequately if they are far from home.

Harvard NP is PBL
http://hms.harvard.edu/content/new-pathway-np

Originally Posted by Catalystik

I know your sheet currently covers academic policies only, but what do you think about broadening the focus and adding a column on healthcare coverage type/costs? As you know, some schools require one to provide their own policy, some have cheap broad, coverage (especially if they have a huge undergrad population), and others have expensive, restrictive coverage. Nontrads and those with pre-existing medical conditions, in particular, may need to limit their applications to schools where they can afford decent care, since parental policies may no longer cover them or may not cover them adequately if they are far from home.

Do you know any places in particular with restrictive/non-providing health care plans?

Originally Posted by Catalystik

I know your sheet currently covers academic policies only, but what do you think about broadening the focus and adding a column on healthcare coverage type/costs? As you know, some schools require one to provide their own policy, some have cheap broad, coverage (especially if they have a huge undergrad population), and others have expensive, restrictive coverage. Nontrads and those with pre-existing medical conditions, in particular, may need to limit their applications to schools where they can afford decent care, since parental policies may no longer cover them or may not cover them adequately if they are far from home.

I really like Catalystik's suggestion. I'd be willing help build the list!

Originally Posted by Catalystik

I know your sheet currently covers academic policies only, but what do you think about broadening the focus and adding a column on healthcare coverage type/costs? As you know, some schools require one to provide their own policy, some have cheap broad, coverage (especially if they have a huge undergrad population), and others have expensive, restrictive coverage. Nontrads and those with pre-existing medical conditions, in particular, may need to limit their applications to schools where they can afford decent care, since parental policies may no longer cover them or may not cover them adequately if they are far from home.

Sounds useful to me! I'll add the column now. Also, I got authorization to repost this spreadsheet in the Allopathic forum, so once I rewrite the OP and post it there we'll have a chance for, hopefully, a lot of med student input.

Originally Posted by Arsh12

Harvard NP is PBL
http://hms.harvard.edu/content/new-pathway-np

Added!

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

Sounds useful to me! I'll add the column now. Also, I got authorization to repost this spreadsheet in the Allopathic forum, so once I rewrite the OP and post it there we'll have a chance for, hopefully, a lot of med student input.

Excellent!

This is extremely helpful. Thank you so much!

I just found tons of useful stuff...
This spreadsheet is amazing!

Hello,
I want to compile more data for the spreadsheet.
Does anyone have new information to contribute?
Some of these schools already have all of the information, but maybe there are updates to be made?

Thanks!