M.D. physicians as zoo consultants

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In this recent article in the nytimes, the author talks about her experience consulting in a zoo as an M.D. physcian: "As an attending physician at U.C.L.A., I see a wide variety of maladies. But I also consult occasionally at the Los Angeles Zoo, where the veterinarians’ rounds are strikingly similar to those I conduct with my physician colleagues."

I was wondering how difficult it would be for an M.D. to get into zoo consulting, if it is a common occurrence, or if this author is a rare exception. I ask because I have been struggling with the choice between med school and vet school, and I hate the idea of limiting myself to only humans or animals. A career in which I am primarily a human physician, but also occasionally get to help treat animals sounds absolutely perfect to me.

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I think this forum is probably best because it has the most people with actual experience working in zoo medicine.

My guess is that this person consults on cases where the disease in question may be potentially zoonotic, or possibly only in cases involving primates that are closely related to humans.

As a general rule, veterinarians are not allowed to work on human cases, and MD's are not allowed to work on animals--in the sense of working up the case, formulating a treatment plan, prescribing medications, etc. I think the closest you would ever get is consulting on diseases that are common to animals and humans to share knowledge that may not be well known to both sectors.

that article is absurd, and I have to question teh wisdom of any zoo director who would let an MD treat animals.

The ONLY circumstance I could see an MD getting involved in with zoo animals is with a disease that animals never get that only an MD would be familiar with.

I know that the zoo near me from time to time consults with local human medical specialists. From a quick Google search:

To help her team manage the health of so many diverse species, Murray has established partnerships with medical colleagues in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area, including dentists, surgeons and cardiologists who routinely donate their time and expertise on cases.

Kurt Newman, the surgeon-and-chief at Children's National Medical Center, has consulted on about 10 to 15 surgical cases of small primates over the past nine years.

"Although the National Zoo may seem different than a children's hospital, animals like little babies can't communicate," Newman said.

Newman said he and Murray also have a shared passion for health care and patient care, and their collaboration has enabled each to learn more from each of their respective disciplines.

source.

It seems, from looking at a few other articles, that such consults are very infrequent and generally from a specific set of people (who tend to be chief of whatever at big name hospitals in the area). (And are primarily on cases involving small primates.)
So, yes, as an MD, you could theoretically consult on a veterinary case, but it's something that only a select few get to do who happen to specialize in a field that is needed at a particular moment and work in the appropriate geographical area. In other words, it's not something that I would ever count on having ever offered as an opportunity and the author of the article you mentioned is, to the best of my knowledge, one of the rare exceptions.

Another article that mentions MD consultations, for some more examples. (Though the article primarily focuses on veterinary specialists consulting.)

Originally Posted by sato90

But I also consult occasionally at the Los Angeles Zoo, where the veterinarians’ rounds are strikingly similar to those I conduct with my physician colleagues."

Oh boy imagine that, I just figured vets played with puppies and kittens all day, who knew they'd do things like have rounds and stuff! They're almost like real doctors!!

edit: if you go to med school, stick to your own species. we don't want you.

I have a particular interest in zoo medicine, and I have actually heard of M.D.'s and dentists consulting on a semi-regular basis. Generally it is not a general practitioner who would do the consult, it would be a specialist such as a cardiologist, and usually the consult would be for a non-human primate (usually a great ape) that most resembles a human. In these cases, the veterinarian and the specialist collaborate, each contributing their own expertise. However, I truly expect to see this less and less especially as veterinary specialities become more popular. I certainly wouldn't advise a person to enter med school with the expectation that they might get to be one of these consultants some day. It is a matter of chance, and I believe the possibilities are dwindling.

Originally Posted by nyanko

Oh boy imagine that, I just figured vets played with puppies and kittens all day, who knew they'd do things like have rounds and stuff! They're almost like real doctors!!

edit: if you go to med school, stick to your own species. we don't want you.

: laugh:

It goes both ways, too. I know a veterinary pathologist here who specializes in cardiovascular path, especially implants, ischemic events, etc (also a lot of kidney EM) - he consults relatively often on human cases.

I have no problem with a human doctor consulting (consulting, not treating, etc) on veterinary cases if they are very skilled in a particular subspecialty such as neuro or cardio. In fact, I welcome it. I think there *needs* to be more cross-talk between the human and vet worlds via comparative medicine.

However, yes...such positions (for MDs/DOs or DVMs) are extremely few and far between, and generally require an immense amount of comparative med work before you can be taken seriously.

Thanks for the replies. I won't go to med school expecting to work with animals, but I'll definitely seek out ways to learn about comparative medicine to satisfy my curiosity and just in case the opportunity presents itself later. I agree that there should be more cross-talk between the human and vet medical worlds. I think human medicine would benefit from taking off its blinders to the vast medical knowledge of other species.

The first Zoobiquity conference was last year, this year the conference is in September (http://www.cme.ucla.edu/courses/even...ent_id=2053704). Another cross-species health initiative involving human and veterinary medicine is the One Health movement, but that is more related to public health and the ecosystem, and is a global movement (here's the CDC's site about One Health http://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/index.html).

We frequently have MD surgeons come in and assist/perform procedures in our macaques. The procedures are generally complex neuro or ophtho surgeries. I honestly don't think veterinary medicine as a whole has the resources or the critical mass of people involved to train veterinarians to do procedures as specialized as the ones these MDs perform on a regular basis, so I am A-okay with MDs coming in to perform surgery. After all, people are primates, too!

MD's do perform research on animals (predominantly mice) as most human treatments and diagnostics come from animals.

I never would have guessed MD's consult on veterinary cases.

Here is a news article about exactly this type of case we had at OSU here a couple years ago.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X42W_...feature=relmfu

If we cant figure it out from the veterinary literature, then the human literature is the logical next place to look.

Maybe not as a MD. This DO, DVM appears to do acupuncture on people, dogs, and horses.

http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/Direc...S/Id+FRCq49N4=

In my experience at both the zoo and a sea turtle rehab center, MDs not only consult on cases, but actually do some of the surgeries (usually optho or cardio cases). I remember thinking how strange that was the first time I heard about it...because it's not like we don't have veterinary cardiology or ophthalmologists after all. The zoo and wildlife vets explained that human doctors are often happy to donate their services to have the opportunity to work with cool animals, but that vet specialists will want to be paid for their services. And since we know how cash strapped zoo/wildlife medicine is, I can see why they consult with the MDs over veterinary specialists. I'm not here to pass judgment on that decision, but just simply sharing what my experience has been.