LMFT Calls Herself "Psychological Expert"

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makes me so mad!

...and she is a proud graduate of California Graduate Institute......

Originally Posted by NHPilot

...and she is a proud graduate of California Graduate Institute......

How about this lady? She calls herself a licensed clinical psychologist and isn't even a licenseholder with the Psychology Board.

http://tinyurl.com/84evjrn

Originally Posted by JeyRo

How about this lady? She calls herself a licensed clinical psychologist and isn't even a licenseholder. Anyone feel like they have the spare time to lodge a complaint?

http://tinyurl.com/84evjrn

Her site says...

"Dr. Athans is a Licensed Marriage Family Therapist(CA License # MFC 022159), trained at UC Berkeley. "

I didn't see anything about LCP.....

Originally Posted by NHPilot

Her site says...

"Dr. Athans is a Licensed Marriage Family Therapist(CA License # MFC 022159), trained at UC Berkeley. "

I didn't see anything about LCP.....

Click on the "services" tab and you find this:

"She brings her scientific, clicnical and research background as a licensed pyschologist as well as a repetoir of healing modalities that she has tried and tested."

The misspellings are terrible. So, does it seem like she's misrepresenting herself here?

Originally Posted by JeyRo

How about this lady? She calls herself a licensed clinical psychologist and isn't even a licenseholder. Anyone feel like they have the spare time to lodge a complaint?

http://tinyurl.com/84evjrn

She is pretty traditional when it comes to therapy....

"Catherine looks at your pattern, by tuning in, clearing and allowing herself to become aware of your higher, divine pattern or personality. She then works to reflect this pattern back to you. Energizing and nourishing you and giving you enough strength to push out all the blocksthat have been placed in you by your environment.":

Originally Posted by nhpilot

she is pretty traditional when it comes to therapy....

"catherine looks at your pattern, by tuning in, clearing and allowing herself to become aware of your higher, divine pattern or personality. She then works to reflect this pattern back to you. Energizing and nourishing you and giving you enough strength to push out all the blocksthat have been placed in you by your environment.":

barf!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by JeyRo

Click on the "services" tab and you find this:

"She brings her scientific, clicnical and research background as a licensed pyschologist as well as a repetoir of healing modalities that she has tried and tested."

The misspellings are terrible. So, does it seem like she's misrepresenting herself here?

She's may not be a licensed psychologist, but she is most definitely a "pyschologist." That alternative spelling simply isn't in your "repetoir" because you've had too many "outer intrusions."

Originally Posted by wigflip

She's may not be a licensed psychologist, but she is most definitely a "pyschologist." That alternative spelling simply isn't in your "repetoir" because you've had too many "outer intrusions."

Well, it's funny in a way because it's so, terribly awful. But doesn't it make any of you kind of mad? It does me.

Originally Posted by JeyRo

Well, it's funny in a way because it's so, terribly awful. But doesn't it make any of you kind of mad? It does me.

What part of it makes you mad? Is it that you feel that her clients are getting duped?

Originally Posted by wigflip

What part of it makes you mad? Is it that you feel that her clients are getting duped?

It's possible some of them are getting duped. I guess the part that makes me mad is that she may be paying for some of her expensive office space (Los Altos!) with funds from patients who may have given her money under false pretenses. It's gaining advantage through fraud, essentially.

I agree that this all is so ridiculous and such a terrible website its hard to see people getting duped, but on the other hand, "oooh! she has a book! she has testimonials! and she says she's a doctor, LCP, *and* an MFT! Great! Sign me up!"

Anyone bored and want to file a complaint with the CA MFT licensing board? Sadly there are dozens/hundreds of hacks out there who misrepresent themselves.

498.2 Unprofessional Conduct
(f) Misrepresentation as to the type or status of a license or registration held by the person, or otherwise misrepresenting or permitting misrepresentation of his or her education, professional qualifications, or professional affiliations to any person or entity.

I'm not sure there is a better example of why the field of psychology needs to protect itself from "professionals" like this.

Indeed, it is about protecting the public and regulating our own profession.

I don't like it when someone parades around calling themselves a licensed clinical psychologist when they are not. Particularly when they are giving bogus treatments, which also makes our profession look bad.

My opinion is that a licensed therapist should not be allowed to use "Doctor" unless they are licensed psychologists. To often people are calling themselves Dr. because of diploma mill doctorates or doctorates in something unrelated to psychology such as a DD. This is leading people to assume that they are licensed psychologists. I didn't see in either or the two examples above where they SAID they were licensed psychologists but they sure implied it.....and that brings the whole profession down. Its like when they have a "Dr" touting some weight loss potion or something and in the fine print you find out they are a chiropractor or podiatrist or something....

Originally Posted by NHPilot

I didn't see in either or the two examples above where they SAID they were licensed psychologists but they sure implied it.....

I didn't see that either. I did google "Dr. Jenn" and one of my first hits has someone else erroneously referring to her as a "psychologist"--possible evidence that the "Doctor" title can facilitate misunderstanding.

You can get a degree from some diploma mill like the first one above did and call yourself a psychologist...you,re just not licensed....that is why we need the APA to start demanding changes on how the term "Dr" can be used by therapists....

This seems like an appropriate way to handle the accredited-doctorate-not-in-clinical-psych issue:

"I have a Ph.D. in Sociology, an M.A. in Clinical Psychology, and a credential in Sex Therapy from the American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists. In my [location deleted] office, I provide relationship therapy, and sex therapy. I can also help you with other issues."

FYI: This person earned a doctorate from Harvard, is emeritus faculty from an R1 school, and probably authored more peer-reviewed works than anyone on sdn, but still doesn't refer to self as "Doctor," presumably because of the context.

OP, that link is dead now. What's up?

Originally Posted by wigflip

This seems like an appropriate way to handle the accredited-doctorate-not-in-clinical-psych issue:

"I have a Ph.D. in Sociology, an M.A. in Clinical Psychology, and a credential in Sex Therapy from the American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists. In my [location deleted] office, I provide relationship therapy, and sex therapy. I can also help you with other issues."

FYI: This person earned a doctorate from Harvard, is emeritus faculty from an R1 school, and probably authored more peer-reviewed works than anyone on sdn, but still doesn't refer to self as "Doctor," presumably because of the context.

That's the thing. This person wouldn't need to misrepresent her credentials. Her credentials and experience, education, and training stand on their own.

Originally Posted by wigflip

This seems like an appropriate way to handle the accredited-doctorate-not-in-clinical-psych issue:

"I have a Ph.D. in Sociology, an M.A. in Clinical Psychology, and a credential in Sex Therapy from the American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists. In my [location deleted] office, I provide relationship therapy, and sex therapy. I can also help you with other issues."

FYI: This person earned a doctorate from Harvard, is emeritus faculty from an R1 school, and probably authored more peer-reviewed works than anyone on sdn, but still doesn't refer to self as "Doctor," presumably because of the context.

I agree that is a great way to handle it....its when "Dr Jane Doe" describes all her credentials EXCEPT what her doctorate is for or from what school its from that my dander gets riled...it's misleading and unethical.

The REAL professionals are like your example who are confident in their credentials and don't need to hide behind titles.

What about Jonathan Alpert, the therapist who wrote that self-promotional article for the New York Times? From his web site:

Jonathan holds an advanced degree in psychology and is licensed in New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington, D.C.

Did anyone read the above and think that Alpert is a licensed clinical psychologist? As I found out via a three-second internet search, he has a master's degree in counseling, and is licensed as a counselor. I later Googled around indignantly and found this Forbes piece re: Alpert's credentials, so at least someone agrees with me.

Originally Posted by Qwerk

Did anyone read the above and think that Alpert is a licensed clinical psychologist?

No. "Advanced degree in X discipline" = masters (if the person had a doctorate, they'd say so). I've read this before and think it's a pretty standard way of saying masters degree in bio format. (Whew! We're back to disagreeing, Qwerk ).

But I think part of the problem is that members of the general public don't actually know the differences between psychiatrist, psychologist, psychotherapist, counselor, social worker, sociologist. I threw in the last one because virtually everyone I know outside of academia thinks "sociologist" is either just another way of saying "psychologist," or just another way of saying "social worker." People don't know what they don't know.

I guess what I'm saying is that yes, perhaps some of the people mentioned above are puffing up or even distorting their own credentials, but it seems to me that most prospective clients who are, of their own volition, seeking someone to perform therapy (i.e. outside of the confines of an institutional structure where they've been mandated into some form of care) either a) really care about credentials, and already know to ask, or b) don't know and don't care. In other words, the idea that there is a substantial subset of people who are well-acquainted with what university-trained psychologists are uniquely qualified to offer and are seeking those services, yet are somehow duped into believing someone is a psychologist who isn't seems unlikely to me. But perhaps I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Therapist4Chnge

Sadly there are dozens/hundreds of hacks out there who misrepresent themselves.

True. This is a fairly mild case in my opinion. I've heard horror stories you wouldn't believe. It used to infuriate me but now I've just accepted the fact that some people will do anything if nobody stops them, and that includes take advantage of poor, sick, desperate, and vulnerable people. I keep telling everybody, every client, whoever I meet, not to be shy when they go to see a therapist and ask for credentials up front. If a therapist tells you why it's important to you or tries to make it about you or something, get up and leave. If a therapist is so insecure that he can't tell you how many years he studied or where he did his internship or postdoc or what school he went to, etc, then he sucks as a therapist, I guarantee you.

Originally Posted by Iwillheal

True. This is a fairly mild case in my opinion. I've heard horror stories you wouldn't believe. It used to infuriate me but now I've just accepted the fact that some people will do anything if nobody stops them, and that includes take advantage of poor, sick, desperate, and vulnerable people. I keep telling everybody, every client, whoever I meet, not to be shy when they go to see a therapist and ask for credentials up front. If a therapist tells you why it's important to you or tries to make it about you or something, get up and leave. If a therapist is so insecure that he can't tell you how many years he studied or where he did his internship or postdoc or what school he went to, etc, then he sucks as a therapist, I guarantee you.

I tend to agree with you here. I don't see why being transparent about your educational and training would ever be a problem. I can't imagine it being a good time to make it about the client, either, as that just seems evasive.

Pragma, I don't know what your orientation is, but I think if you're a Freudian, you can get away with it.

I've read threads about how to title therapists in practices. I always thought it was a no brainer......if you were a licensed clinical psychologist, you were "Dr.".....if you weren't a LCP you weren't "Dr." no matter what your degree.

I spent 15 years in the Operating Room, and even if a nurse had a PhD in nursing, they were NEVER Dr....it was considered to be to confusing in a clinical setting. I look at it the same way in psychological practice....

Originally Posted by NHPilot

I've read threads about how to title therapists in practices. I always thought it was a no brainer......if you were a licensed clinical psychologist, you were "Dr.".....if you weren't a LCP you weren't "Dr." no matter what your degree.

I spent 15 years in the Operating Room, and even if a nurse had a PhD in nursing, they were NEVER Dr....it was considered to be to confusing in a clinical setting. I look at it the same way in psychological practice....

but then who gets to be the "Dr.?" i would think that psychiatrists would start objecting to psychologists being referred to as such....i'm perfectly willing to be wrong on that.

Dr. Hartley had a PhD and he was a licensed clinical psychologist...but you young'uns may not know who that is....lol...

Originally Posted by Shatani

but then who gets to be the "Dr.?" i would think that psychiatrists would start objecting to psychologists being referred to as such....i'm perfectly willing to be wrong on that.

Personally, I'd say a lot of it depends on the setting. If it's in a medical center, for example, no matter what I'm doing or what my role is, I make sure to clarify with the patient that I'm an intern in clinical psychology, not a medical student/resident/physician. In a non-medical setting (e.g., university psych clinic, private practice), I'd imagine something along the lines of, "I'm Dr. ____, and I'm a clinical/licensed psychologist" would be appropriate.

I believe it's been said on here a few times before, but like it or not, when people hear "doctor," as most of us have probably experienced at this point, they generally think physician. Thus, when it comes to our patients, I feel the onus is on us to address that assumption early on.

Originally Posted by wigflip

No. "Advanced degree in X discipline" = masters (if the person had a doctorate, they'd say so). I've read this before and think it's a pretty standard way of saying masters degree in bio format. (Whew! We're back to disagreeing, Qwerk ).

Yeah, but...it's the "psychology" part that trips me up. He's implying that he's licensed in psychology. To the uninitiated, his vague explanation of his credentials sounds like "psychologist." And mental health counseling isn't the same thing as clinical psychology. I can't come up with an explanation for why he doesn't say "...degree in mental health counseling."

Originally Posted by Qwerk

Yeah, but...it's the "psychology" part that trips me up. He's implying that he's licensed in psychology. To the uninitiated, his vague explanation of his credentials sounds like "psychologist." And mental health counseling isn't the same thing as clinical psychology. I can't come up with an explanation for why he doesn't say "...degree in mental health counseling."

Return to my post above (#17). This practitioner states that s/he has an MA in clinical psych. That seems fair. People can get masters degrees in various subfields of psych. It seems to me that your beef with Mr. Whatshisface should be less with the "psychology" (if in fact that's what his diploma says) and more with the "advanced degree" part because the lack of specificity could lend itself to interpretation of advanced degree = doctorate. But people with academic credentials don't tend to downplay them--they're very proud of their doctorates, whether or not they signify much in the way of expertise. That's how you can tell "advanced degree" = masters. People who self-promote in the way that the folks being criticized on this thread do, don't keep the fact that they have earned doctorates ambiguous. They keep the institution/nature of the degree ambiguous.

Originally Posted by wigflip

It seems to me that your beef with Mr. Whatshisface should be less with the "psychology" (if in fact that's what his diploma says)

That's the thing, though -- his diploma doesn't, as far as I know. He has a degree in mental health counseling and a license to practice mental health counseling. (Here in New York, you can't get any kind of license with an M.A. in psychology.) For this reason, I don't think he should be using the term "psychology" in his credentials if he doesn't want people to think he's a psychologist.

I got a chuckle out of this...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessi...le-misconduct/

Originally Posted by wigflip

It seems to me that your beef with Mr. Whatshisface should be less with the "psychology" (if in fact that's what his diploma says) and more with the "advanced degree" part because the lack of specificity could lend itself to interpretation of advanced degree = doctorate.

Yeah that probably is the argument. To be fair, in this era of mid-level encroachment, differentiating ourselves (with PhDs) from MA-level providers is increasingly important. It confuses the general public even more if someone is vague enough in describing their credentials such that it could be construed as them having a doctorate degree. My own ethics training highlighted the importance of being very clear about your credentials.

I've mentioned Marcus Bachmann on here before - but if you check out his website, you'll see that he puts himself down as having a "PhD - Clinical Psychology" when a PhD in clinical psychology does not (and did not) exist at his institution. My understanding is that he got a PhD in some general area, with a "concentration" in clinical psychology. This of course is a moot point for him, since he is unlicensed and I am assuming not a member of APA, so his ethical obligations are...huh, I dunno what they are.

Is "psychotherapist" even a licensed title? In my jurisdiction it isn't. Anyone call call themselves a "psychotherapist." The only person I know who actually does so it is an LCSW whose business card I have which says, "Jane Doe, LCSW" and lists her as "Psychotherapist/Individual-Family Counselor."

Originally Posted by wigflip

No. "Advanced degree in X discipline" = masters (if the person had a doctorate, they'd say so).

One of my professors in undergrad actually had an EdD in Counseling, a PhD in Women's Studies, and a MSW, so she styled herself as having, "Advanced degrees in Counseling, Women's Studies, and Social Work."

Originally Posted by Pragma

I've mentioned Marcus Bachmann on here before - but if you check out his website, you'll see that he puts himself down as having a "PhD - Clinical Psychology" when a PhD in clinical psychology does not (and did not) exist at his institution. My understanding is that he got a PhD in some general area, with a "concentration" in clinical psychology. This of course is a moot point for him, since he is unlicensed and I am assuming not a member of APA, so his ethical obligations are...huh, I dunno what they are.

Concerning Bachmann.....http://www.signorile.com/2011/07/wha...-bachmann.html

This thread is making me madder and madder.....wonder if there is a career in therapist busting.....

Originally Posted by BlackSkirtTetra

Is "psychotherapist" even a licensed title? In my jurisdiction it isn't. Anyone call call themselves a "psychotherapist." The only person I know who actually does so it is an LCSW whose business card I have which says, "Jane Doe, LCSW" and lists her as "Psychotherapist/Individual-Family Counselor."



One of my professors in undergrad actually had an EdD in Counseling, a PhD in Women's Studies, and a MSW, so she styled herself as having, "Advanced degrees in Counseling, Women's Studies, and Social Work."

I'm not entirely certain, but I don't believe "psychotherapist" is a protected title in most jurisdictions, certainly isn't here in California. However, "clinical psychologist" usually is (and again, is here in California).

Do licensing boards have the resources (money), time, and ambition to go after these people? It seems to me that they're cash-strapped as it is, and there are quite a few examples of misleading advertising so I wonder if a lot of the time the licensing boards just throw up their hands because they have little other choice...

Originally Posted by BlackSkirtTetra

Do licensing boards have the resources (money), time, and ambition to go after these people? It seems to me that they're cash-strapped as it is, and there are quite a few examples of misleading advertising so I wonder if a lot of the time the licensing boards just throw up their hands because they have little other choice...

This is just conjecture on my part, but I'd imagine it's a matter of how many complaints have been received, and from whom those complaints are coming. If it's an email or two from a psychologist that "Dr. So and So" is misrepresenting his/her credentials, then the board may send a strongly-worded email and call it a day. But if it's a slew of emails from upset former patients, then the recourse would probably be stronger (particularly with the opportunity for/consequence of increased publicity). This is assuming, as you've said, that the board is fairly strapped resource- and time-wise.

Although again, that's basically all just me thinking "out loud."

That would make sense.

To me it seems like you can misrepresent yourself about a lot of things so long as you're smart about it and tread carefully (i.e. don't explicitly say "I'm qualified to practice heart surgery," if you're an MFT).

I chuckled when I saw 'metaphysican' in one of the "services offered" by one of the above therapists. That is mighty close to 'physician', which I know the AMA protects with quite a bit of malice, though they didn't describe practice medicine...so that is a no go.

What is a metaphysician? A philosopher?

Originally Posted by BlackSkirtTetra

What is a metaphysician? A philosopher?

Who needs the APA and certifications....

A metaphysics or esoteric studies degree can include course units from the following areas: metaphysics, esoteric studies, parapsychology, hypnotherapy, counselling, transpersonal psychology, thanatology, shamanistic studies, religious studies, contemporary spirituality, personal development, reincarnation studies, healing studies, and other areas.

http://www.umsonline.org/

http://www.newageuniversity.net/phd_programme

http://www.unicalamus.org/brochure_meta.htm

Woah, that's scary!

Metaphysics is a legitimate branch of philosophy (along with ethics and epistemology) that deals with the nature of existence, but I've never heard of anyone calling themselves a "metaphysician." What a way to confuse people.

Originally Posted by BlackSkirtTetra

Woah, that's scary!

Metaphysics is a legitimate branch of philosophy (along with ethics and epistemology) that deals with the nature of existence, but I've never heard of anyone calling themselves a "metaphysician." What a way to confuse people.

I know, right? It casts a bad light on well-done metaphysical writings (and Joan of Arcadia ).

So... by their word logic, people who study physics are totally physicians!

And people who study fish are fishicians!

Wouldn't the appropriate term me "metaphysicist" instead of "metaphysician"?

I don't know. Most people just call themselves "philosophers." That's much simpler and more-honest, in my opinion, since no one can study only metaphysics without also moving into the other branches of philosophy.

Originally Posted by JeyRo

I'm not entirely certain, but I don't believe "psychotherapist" is a protected title in most jurisdictions, certainly isn't here in California. However, "clinical psychologist" usually is (and again, is here in California).

Your post reminded me of an article I read about a Massachusetts psychiatrist who lost his license for misconduct and started calling himself a psychotherapist. When people complained, he became...drumroll...a life coach. I'll try to dig up the article. My internet's a little wonky now.

Originally Posted by Qwerk

Your post reminded me of an article I read about a Massachusetts psychiatrist who lost his license for misconduct and started calling himself a psychotherapist. When people complained, he became...drumroll...a life coach. I'll try to dig up the article. My internet's a little wonky now.

Do you remember what kind of misconduct?