School grade and MCAT ranges

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I hadn't seen this before, so perhaps its new to other people also. Take a glance through this to see individual school MCAT/GPA numbers. I'll attempt to summarize later unless someone else beats me to it.

http://www.aacpm.org/html/careerzone...ng%20Class.pdf

Woah, that must have gotten published very recently! Nice find! Also, thank goodness they put together some decent lit for the profession!!

This "today's podiatrist" marketing campaign seems to be doing a much better job than what they had been doing.

Hmm, I wonder if this is a new process, or if it has always been this way, but on page 33 it says that AACPMAS will send completed apps to schools starting in the third week of september, but according to the Class of 2016 thread, some people were getting interviews and such by the first week of September...

I wonder if they're pushing stuff back this year, or if those people this past cycle were exceptions?

So the attached table is for the above link above. I've indicated the max/min/average MCAT and GPA scores for each school. The GPAs currently displayed are only for overall GPA and not science GPA (I originally intended to just paste this into the window and didn't want to jam too much information). Additionally - I did not include DAT data for NY and Temple.

If someone wants to review my transcription of data that would be pretty cool. I'd also be curious to hear what trends people believe can be safely drawn from the scores.

Possible trend - There's recently been some discussion concerning what is a good MCAT. A quick browse of this would lead me to believe that if you have a score in the 28-30 range you likely have one of the highest scores in your class.

~EDIT Excel reposted.

Dang, Arizona has some solid stats.

Solid information regarding the schools.

I gotta play devil's advocate here and say that their salary information is way off. Maybe I just live in an area saturated with podiatrists, but a few pods told me that podiatrist focusing on conservative care generally make in the range of 110k. And they said that's what the majority of podiatrists focus on.

Salary is another can of worms. If you really want some contrasting salary info check out the young podiatrist survey from a few years ago. The numbers are to be blunt - awful. If I remember correctly the average is less than $100,000 and it was a subject of much contention on another forum where everyone is a podiatrist. The results are summarized in one of those podiatry newsletters, but the data is hidden away in a members only section. I'd love to see it. Its a poll of a few hundred starting podiatrists over a 10 year period (very small sample size over a reasonably large period - but still worthy of review because the average is just so low).

Additionally, the cost of living expense information reported by the schools is simply not consistent. Some schools either have a different idea what to report or they didn't try very hard.

Frank, I still think the pods you're shadowing are low-balling... Even BLS reports like 120k, and for medical specialties it is always way low.

Edit: For instance, BLS Reports Anesthesiologists at $234k, whereas CNN Money has them like 5k shy of 300. Anyways, BLS is usually the lowest number you can find, and they put pods on the map at 120k.

Originally Posted by jotfinos

Dang, Arizona has some solid stats.

They are also only a class size of ~30, and apparently only have 3 females (the female thing was not relevant to scores, but rather a fun fact!).

But the small class size is probably how they get away with it, and having a class size of 90% whites (which is unusual, looking at overall matriculants...). White people typically score 1-2 points higher than other races on each section (exception: Asians).

Originally Posted by frankcfromny

Solid information regarding the schools.

I gotta play devil's advocate here and say that their salary information is way off. Maybe I just live in an area saturated with podiatrists, but a few pods told me that podiatrist focusing on conservative care generally make in the range of 110k. And they said that's what the majority of podiatrists focus on.

NYC area? Just curious

Some of the GPA's were lower than I expected, do you think that their MCAT scores counteracted that?

thoughts?

Originally Posted by ilovefeet

Some of the GPA's were lower than I expected, do you think that their MCAT scores counteracted that?

thoughts?

Hold on, let me consult my fortune telling ball. Seriously though, I think you're worrying too much. I'm willing to bet at least 95% of you will get an interview and acceptance somewhere. You have to truly screw up in undergrad (<3.0 gpa + <20 MCAT at the same time) and/or be a completely weird person on interview day to get denied. If you're reading the average GPA/MCAT scores and thinking "wow that's kinda low" that probably means you will get in no problems.

Originally Posted by Cascade11

NYC area? Just curious

Upstate NY

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

They are also only a class size of ~30, and apparently only have 3 females (the female thing was not relevant to scores, but rather a fun fact!).

But the small class size is probably how they get away with it, and having a class size of 90% whites (which is unusual, looking at overall matriculants...). White people typically score 1-2 points higher than other races on each section (exception: Asians).

I really hope this is sarcasm because it doesn't read like it. Stop typing on your key board and stating this crap. You can't make these assumptions because you do not know for sure what the incoming matriculant stats are for whites vs other races. This is another example where you are promoting that you KNOW when you really don't.

When comparing MD vs DO vs DPM I would be willing to bet that the ratio of minorities/ other races: whites is about the same if not more in favor of other races. The ratio of other races: whites is usually more in favor of whites for DO school and in podiatry school the majority of students are white. The standards of admission get weaker as you go from MD to DO to DPM. What do you think that says? You still believe "white people typically score 1-2 points higher than other races on each section"?

Originally Posted by Ankle Breaker

I really hope this is sarcasm because it doesn't read like it. Stop typing on your key board and stating this crap. You can't make these assumptions because you do not know for sure what the incoming matriculant stats are for whites vs other races. This is another example where you are promoting that you KNOW when you really don't.

When comparing MD vs DO vs DPM I would be willing to bet that the ratio of minorities/ other races: whites is about the same if not more in favor of other races. The ratio of other races: whites is usually more in favor of whites for DO school and in podiatry school the majority of students are white. The standards of admission get weaker as you go from MD to DO to DPM. What do you think that says? You still believe "white people typically score 1-2 points higher than other races on each section"?

It's a statistically proven fact that whites do... Not only in applicant scores, but in matriculant scores as well...

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19.pdf

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

It's a statistically proven fact that whites do... Not only in applicant scores, but in matriculant scores as well...

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19.pdf

I stand corrected. But to be honest I don't think you can apply these stats to podiatry school since almost everyone has either a terrible gpa or MCAT score...no matter what the race.

This is really cool. I cant believe some one got into OCPM with a 15 MCAT score... This makes me feel good about my chances of gaining acceptance. Really good info.

Originally Posted by Pktgresch

This is really cool. I cant believe some one got into OCPM with a 15 MCAT score... This makes me feel good about my chances of gaining acceptance. Really good info.

I know of four people who got a 19-20 on the mcat and they were asked to retake it at ocpm. I really don't know why or what the adcom factors in but just keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by willingdoc

I know of four people who got a 19-20 on the mcat and they were asked to retake it at ocpm. I really don't know why or what the adcom factors in but just keep that in mind.

Oh alright thanks for the info. I scored a 23P on my MCAT so I am hoping that my score is just high enough not to retake it. 23 is right at the averages, over and below for some schools.

yeah you're fine as long as your gpa is above a 3.0 you will surely get admission offers

Originally Posted by willingdoc

yeah you're fine as long as your gpa is above a 3.0 you will surely get admission offers

Yup, 3.18 cGPA, 3.15 sGPA

I've said it on here before, and Ill say it again.

People with piss poor scores get in, but they don't last.

If they can't maintain a 3.0 gpa in undergrad what makes them think you will pass when the work is 4X (or more) the amount as undergrad?

Can't get a decent score on the MCAT? Can you pass boards?

But hey, It's a business.

Originally Posted by dyk343

I've said it on here before, and Ill say it again.

People with piss poor scores get in, but they don't last.

If they can't maintain a 3.0 gpa in undergrad what makes them think you will pass when the work is 4X (or more) the amount as undergrad?

Can't get a decent score on the MCAT? Can you pass boards?

But hey, It's a business.

Not to sound pessimistic, but I have been told that by numerous people. People with no gain in the admission process said that the reason why medical schools will encourage everyone to apply (mediocre grades, non-science majors) is because first they get money in you applying and get to boast about the high number of students applying and the low number of students accepted. And second, those that do get it will likely drop out due to 100% science classes and a different type of studying than they are used to. Med schools get the money for the first year so it's not that big of a loss for them. Now, I am not saying I agree 100% with what I heard, but I can see logic behind this.

Just food for thought for the applying students to think about what they have done wrong in undergrad and what will be different in pod/med school.

Originally Posted by dyk343

I've said it on here before, and Ill say it again.

People with piss poor scores get in, but they don't last.

If they can't maintain a 3.0 gpa in undergrad what makes them think you will pass when the work is 4X (or more) the amount as undergrad?

Can't get a decent score on the MCAT? Can you pass boards?

But hey, It's a business.

I agreed with everything up until the bolded statement. Since the average MCAT score of matriculants is terrible but yet 84% of students end up passing part I...I think it's safe to say we can't equate terrible MCAT scores with the possibility of not being able to pass boards. I think there is more of a correlation with the MCAT and USMLE but for the APMLE...not so much.

Originally Posted by Cascade11

Not to sound pessimistic, but I have been told that by numerous people. People with no gain in the admission process said that the reason why medical schools will encourage everyone to apply (mediocre grades, non-science majors) is because first they get money in you applying and get to boast about the high number of students applying and the low number of students accepted. And second, those that do get it will likely drop out due to 100% science classes and a different type of studying than they are used to. Med schools get the money for the first year so it's not that big of a loss for them. Now, I am not saying I agree 100% with what I heard, but I can see logic behind this.

Just food for thought for the applying students to think about what they have done wrong in undergrad and what will be different in pod/med school.

The bolded actually makes no sense because each medical school is capped at a certain amount of students usually. If they accept students who most likely have the potential to fail out then they actually LOSE money in the long run.

If a medical school is capped a 100 people per class and 5 students drop out after the first year then they only get to collect tuition from 95 students for years 2, 3, and 4. That's a lot of cash the school loses out on.

Maybe he's referring to the Carribbean med schools?

Originally Posted by Pktgresch

Oh alright thanks for the info. I scored a 23P on my MCAT so I am hoping that my score is just high enough not to retake it. 23 is right at the averages, over and below for some schools.

I have no empirical data to back this up, but I have a gut feeling that the averages are somewhat misleading...

People aren't (usually) going to get accepted to an MD/DO school with less than a ~26. That means, 26 and lower are typical pod school applicants. Due to the small volume of applicants per cycle, I imagine that the "average" GPA and MCAT are not as competitive in pod school and the acceptances go much lower than this (perhaps a whole standard deviation?) just based on the fact all 24, 25, and 26s won't get in anywhere else, so they raise the average, but do not complete the class sizes. So ALL the 21, 22, and 23s fill the classes without having a real problem getting accepted.

This post was confusing and I apologize. I have no evidence for this claim, except that there is a large disparity between DO admission and Pod admissions which leads me to this conclusion. Anyway, I think you'll be fine!

Originally Posted by Ankle Breaker

I really hope this is sarcasm because it doesn't read like it. Stop typing on your key board and stating this crap. You can't make these assumptions because you do not know for sure what the incoming matriculant stats are for whites vs other races. This is another example where you are promoting that you KNOW when you really don't.

When comparing MD vs DO vs DPM I would be willing to bet that the ratio of minorities/ other races: whites is about the same if not more in favor of other races. The ratio of other races: whites is usually more in favor of whites for DO school and in podiatry school the majority of students are white. The standards of admission get weaker as you go from MD to DO to DPM. What do you think that says? You still believe "white people typically score 1-2 points higher than other races on each section"?

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

It's a statistically proven fact that whites do... Not only in applicant scores, but in matriculant scores as well...

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19.pdf

same with DO schools

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicants...antsummary.pdf

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

I have no empirical data to back this up, but I have a gut feeling that the averages are somewhat misleading...

People aren't (usually) going to get accepted to an MD/DO school with less than a ~26. That means, 26 and lower are typical pod school applicants. Due to the small volume of applicants per cycle, I imagine that the "average" GPA and MCAT are not as competitive in pod school and the acceptances go much lower than this (perhaps a whole standard deviation?) just based on the fact all 24, 25, and 26s won't get in anywhere else, so they raise the average, but do not complete the class sizes. So ALL the 21, 22, and 23s fill the classes without having a real problem getting accepted.

This post was confusing and I apologize. I have no evidence for this claim, except that there is a large disparity between DO admission and Pod admissions which leads me to this conclusion. Anyway, I think you'll be fine!

Classic example of a pre-pod's understanding of the admissions process.

Originally Posted by FiveOVicryl

Classic example of a pre-pod's understanding of the admissions process.

At least I was honest?

Here is a spread sheet I made on the information for each school. Note that NYCPM charges a $9000 January term fee, for the first year. Also, the tuition I have listed takes only what the school has listed for only schooling. Living expenses have not been figured into that amount, but rather shows a base tuition amount.

If getting in is that simple, then why do most podiatry schools have below a 30% acceptance rate? Is the majority of the application pool just 2.7 GPA 18 MCAT people?

Originally Posted by VinceViegel

If getting in is that simple, then why do most podiatry schools have below a 30% acceptance rate? Is the majority of the application pool just 2.7 GPA 18 MCAT people?

30% matriculant rate I think? Not possible to have less than 30% acceptance rate....

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

30% matriculant rate I think? Not possible to have less than 30% acceptance rate....

I'm talking about individual schools. For example, Scholl gets 500 applications each year and interviews 150 people for 98 seats, so let's say they accept 125 of them. 125/500 is 25%. What up with that?

This info is all from their website, by the way.

It's just an optical illusion, or something like that. Look at the odds to get accepted. Just because everybody apparently applies to every school (exaggeration), doesn't mean it's somehow harder to get in. The odds of being accepted somewhere are over 50%, so the individual school acceptance percentages don't matter.

Sidebar: they interview 150 for 100 spots?!? Their tour guides must be rocking it...........

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

It's just an optical illusion, or something like that. Look at the odds to get accepted. Just because everybody apparently applies to every school (exaggeration), doesn't mean it's somehow harder to get in. The odds of being accepted somewhere are over 50%, so the individual school acceptance percentages don't matter.

Sidebar: they interview 150 for 100 spots?!? Their tour guides must be rocking it...........

So are you saying most of the applications are junk apps? And around 900 people apply overall and around 650 get in, so that's over 70%, but I'm talking about what are your chances at your first choice school.

Originally Posted by VinceViegel

So are you saying most of the applications are junk apps? And around 900 people apply overall and around 650 get in, so that's over 70%, but I'm talking about what are your chances at your first choice school.

I plan on applying to 4 schools, does that mean three of them are "junk" apps?

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

I plan on applying to 4 schools, does that mean three of them are "junk" apps?

I just don't follow your reasoning. If 75% of people are rejected from a particular school, why is it considered so "easy" to get in?

I get a laugh when people quote the BLS or professional salary surveys as a reliable information...be careful believing everything you find on the Internet. I've been working with PA's, Surgeons, CRNA's/Anesthesiologist for several years and can tell you that everything I've seen said about these careers on the Podiatry forum is not even close...a PA making $80k a year??haha! Right...

Originally Posted by VinceViegel

I just don't follow your reasoning. If 75% of people are rejected from a particular school, why is it considered so "easy" to get in?

People aren't getting rejected from that school. They are simply not scheduling an interview or denying their acceptance. I would have been considered a Barry and a Sam Meritt "reject" by your logic because I didn't take my interview there. But I was accepted to 100% of the programs I interviewed at (DMU, AZPOD, Western, etc)...I don't know how to explain the application process to you I guess

Originally Posted by dtrack22

People aren't getting rejected from that school. They are simply not scheduling an interview or denying their acceptance. I would have been considered a Barry and a Sam Meritt "reject" by your logic because I didn't take my interview there. But I was accepted to 100% of the programs I interviewed at (DMU, AZPOD, Western, etc)...I don't know how to explain the application process to you I guess

Originally Posted by dtrack22

People aren't getting rejected from that school. They are simply not scheduling an interview or denying their acceptance. I would have been considered a Barry and a Sam Meritt "reject" by your logic because I didn't take my interview there. But I was accepted to 100% of the programs I interviewed at (DMU, AZPOD, Western, etc)...I don't know how to explain the application process to you I guess

Ahh that makes some sense. Basically these schools will invite 50% or more of those who applied to an interview and then accept most of those people IF they attend. Am I right in assuming that?

I am applying to podiatry school very soon for admission for the class of sept 2014. I have a GPA of a 3.75 and an MCAT score of 19 (I am retaking it in less than 2 weeks). I'm really nervous that it won't get much higher than a 19, maybe 20. (For some reason I can't do well!) I have many student involvement activities and leadership roles in each, cancer research experience, i work on an ambulance, and have As in all the prereq courses except Bs in physics. Do you think if I applied with an MCAT of 19 I would still get accepted to the NY podiatry school?

Originally Posted by violinrae

I am applying to podiatry school very soon for admission for the class of sept 2014. I have a GPA of a 3.75 and an MCAT score of 19 (I am retaking it in less than 2 weeks). I'm really nervous that it won't get much higher than a 19, maybe 20. (For some reason I can't do well!) I have many student involvement activities and leadership roles in each, cancer research experience, i work on an ambulance, and have As in all the prereq courses except Bs in physics. Do you think if I applied with an MCAT of 19 I would still get accepted to the NY podiatry school?

you should make a new thread. i think you would get better feedback.

Originally Posted by violinrae

I am applying to podiatry school very soon for admission for the class of sept 2014. I have a GPA of a 3.75 and an MCAT score of 19 (I am retaking it in less than 2 weeks). I'm really nervous that it won't get much higher than a 19, maybe 20. (For some reason I can't do well!) I have many student involvement activities and leadership roles in each, cancer research experience, i work on an ambulance, and have As in all the prereq courses except Bs in physics. Do you think if I applied with an MCAT of 19 I would still get accepted to the NY podiatry school?

In my opinion a 19 is quite low and wont get you accepted. I would retake for sure.

Originally Posted by hematosis

In my opinion a 19 is quite low and wont get you accepted. I would retake for sure.

I agree 19 is very low and should no longer be considered good enough to be accepted but there have been students who have gotten accepted with a lower MCAT score than that. I think you will get accepted somewhere with a 19 (which is very sad). If your retake is 20+ then I have no doubt your chances of getting accepted will increase exponentially since your GPA is very high.

So according to that excel spreadsheet it says that certain schools won't accept people with a (too) high of a GPA. SO they are saying that if you live in Illinois and you don't want to go to another school and you have a cumulative GPA above 3.71 they will reject you??

So in other words, podiatry schools are saying that if you have too high of a school they won't accept you?? Seems kinda BS how they are pretty much telling you that you are too good for their school

Originally Posted by hughesn2

So according to that excel spreadsheet it says that certain schools won't accept people with a (too) high of a GPA. SO they are saying that if you live in Illinois and you don't want to go to another school and you have a cumulative GPA above 3.71 they will reject you??

So in other words, podiatry schools are saying that if you have too high of a school they won't accept you?? Seems kinda BS how they are pretty much telling you that you are too good for their school

I recommend you get some sleep and read this again tomorrow. Maybe review the source document.

Originally Posted by heybrother

I recommend you get some sleep and read this again tomorrow. Maybe review the source document.