Optometry School Dismissal Rates

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I have heard that at UCBSO and NOVA, the optometry curriculum is set to require a minimum 3.0 GPA each semester. If the students get below a 3.0 GPA, they are dismissed from the schools and chances of appealing back into the schools are slim. Then the students end up owing tuition. Is this true?

Out of all the optometry schools, which ones are the most lenient when it comes down to dismissing students from the school? Are there any statistics on drop rates of each optometry school?

Originally Posted by OATAcer

I have heard that at UCBSO and NOVA, the optometry curriculum is set to require a minimum 3.0 GPA each semester. If the students get below a 3.0 GPA, they are dismissed from the schools and chances of appealing back into the schools are slim. Then the students end up owing tuition. Is this true?

Out of all the optometry schools, which ones are the most lenient when it comes down to dismissing students from the school? Are there any statistics on drop rates of each optometry school?

If you're worrying about getting booted out before you even set foot in a program, you may be biting off more than you can chew. I had a lot of classmates go down in flames and either get dismissed or held back one or more years. It's not fun to watch so I can't imagine what it would be like to endure.

Originally Posted by Jason K

If you're worrying about getting booted out before you even set foot in a program, you may be biting off more than you can chew. I had a lot of classmates go down in flames and either get dismissed or held back one or more years. It's not fun to watch so I can't imagine what it would be like to endure.

Did you just write that? Does anything ever decent come out of your mouth? Just because this person asked about dismissal rates, he/she will be one of them. And what do you mean by a "lot" ?? 80% of your class failed? 50% of your class failed? or was it really 10% or 5%?

Originally Posted by Jason K

If you're worrying about getting booted out before you even set foot in a program, you may be biting off more than you can chew. I had a lot of classmates go down in flames and either get dismissed or held back one or more years. It's not fun to watch so I can't imagine what it would be like to endure.

Which optometry school was this?

Out of 64, we lost four this past year at OSU. It's not a huge number, but it's a lot of money.

I agree with Jason though.. You really shouldn't be worried about failing out if you haven't even started. If you really are, you may want to consider something else. It's a huge investment, and not one to take lightly.

Originally Posted by q1we3

Did you just write that? Does anything ever decent come out of your mouth? Just because this person asked about dismissal rates, he/she will be one of them. And what do you mean by a "lot" ?? 80% of your class failed? 50% of your class failed? or was it really 10% or 5%?

Simmer down, there Sizzle Chest. Actually, after 4 years, it was 16%. That was the percentage that failed out - not the attrition rate, which was slightly higher and included voluntary withdrawal. It also included a couple of people who failed into my class, and then were failed into the class behind me. So, like I said - not pretty to watch.

Apparently, bad things scare you so I'll have to be careful with what I write now that I know you're reading. I suggest a security blanket, a stuffed animal, or perhaps a giant poster of Tony Robbins to help you ward off those frightening feelings when you read something you don't want to hear. You might also try a pajama sleepover with some of your buddies when the going gets really rough. You guys could heat up some hot coco, curl each others' hair, do some nails, and then tell cool "bro stories" to make yourselves feel better. If you want to do something to advance your career potential, you could also get garbed up in Walmart attire (blue vest, yellow button, and a couple of semi-hidden tattoos) and have a "Future Walmart OD Campfire Cookout." You could bring some big-screen TV manuals, lawnmower manuals, dog-food package labels, and vacuum spec sheets. You'll need to be up on all that stuff since customers will be asking you for information about them on a regular basis.

You represent everything that embodies the spoiled future adults of this country who say - "Don't tell me anything unless it's what I want to hear." Don't forget to ask your instructors to grade your papers with green or purple ink instead of red. That red ink can make people feel bad on the inside and we can't have that.

Picking an OD program based on it having the least number of failouts is not what I'd call an intelligent decision. When I said what I said, it was with good reason. If someone is concerned enough about their academic abilities to worry about failing out, before he or she even begins, it means that person may not be prepared for a rigorous graduate clinical program. Having seen A LOT of my friends get smoked, despite working very hard, that gives me good reason to say what I said. If you don't like it, study harder.

So only 16%, not a "lot" when looking at the big picture. 84% success rate for a 4 year doctorate degree, I would say that is a good thing.

Why twist everything into something that its not?

Originally Posted by Roffles

Out of 64, we lost four this past year at OSU. It's not a huge number, but it's a lot of money.

I agree with Jason though.. You really shouldn't be worried about failing out if you haven't even started. If you really are, you may want to consider something else. It's a huge investment, and not one to take lightly.

What is the minimum GPA required per semester/year in order to continue with the program at OSU?

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Originally Posted by Jason K

Simmer down, there Sizzle Chest. Actually, after 4 years, it was 16%. That was the percentage that failed out - not the attrition rate, which was slightly higher and included voluntary withdrawal. It also included a couple of people who failed into my class, and then were failed into the class behind me. So, like I said - not pretty to watch.

Apparently, bad things scare you so I'll have to be careful with what I write now that I know you're reading. I suggest a security blanket, a stuffed animal, or perhaps a giant poster of Tony Robbins to help you ward off those frightening feelings when you read something you don't want to hear. You might also try a pajama sleepover with some of your buddies when the going gets really rough. You guys could heat up some hot coco, curl each others' hair, do some nails, and then tell cool "bro stories" to make yourselves feel better. If you want to do something to advance your career potential, you could also get garbed up in Walmart attire (blue vest, yellow button, and a couple of semi-hidden tattoos) and have a "Future Walmart OD Campfire Cookout." You could bring some big-screen TV manuals, lawnmower manuals, dog-food package labels, and vacuum spec sheets. You'll need to be up on all that stuff since customers will be asking you for information about them on a regular basis.

You represent everything that embodies the spoiled future adults of this country who say - "Don't tell me anything unless it's what I want to hear." Don't forget to ask your instructors to grade your papers with green or purple ink instead of red. That red ink can make people feel bad on the inside and we can't have that.

Picking an OD program based on it having the least number of failouts is not what I'd call an intelligent decision. When I said what I said, it was with good reason. If someone is concerned enough about their academic abilities to worry about failing out, before he or she even begins, it means that person may not be prepared for a rigorous graduate clinical program. Having seen A LOT of my friends get smoked, despite working very hard, that gives me good reason to say what I said. If you don't like it, study harder.

Your minimally helpful. I posted a question in regards to optometry school dismissal. Please respond to my question posted in the very first post. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by q1we3

So only 16%, not a "lot" when looking at the big picture. 84% success rate for a 4 year doctorate degree, I would say that is a good thing.

Why twist everything into something that its not?

Are you high? This isn't Powerball where the input is a couple of bucks. When you have to "bet" hundreds of thousands of dollars for your play, you'd better be getting odds better than 84%. You think a 16% failure rate is "a good thing?" Tell that to the folks who are still paying off student loans for a degree they never got.

Originally Posted by OATAcer

I have heard that at UCBSO and NOVA, the optometry curriculum is set to require a minimum 3.0 GPA each semester. If the students get below a 3.0 GPA, they are dismissed from the schools and chances of appealing back into the schools are slim. Then the students end up owing tuition. Is this true?

Out of all the optometry schools, which ones are the most lenient when it comes down to dismissing students from the school? Are there any statistics on drop rates of each optometry school?

Schools don't want you to fail out - it looks bad for them too. So most schools will work with you to get you back on track. That might include retaking courses, holding you back a year, putting you on an improvement plan, etc.

I know for UCBSO, they do require that you get a good grade in each class (like a B or higher? C or higher? I can't remember). Any class you score lower in, they automatically fail you in and require you to take it again. But once you take it again, I think it wipes out your old grade. The point is actually to help you, rather than to punish you. They want you to graduate with the knowledge you need (which you clearly wouldn't have if you got a D in a class and never took it again) and a good GPA. They work hard with students to get them to graduate fine in 4 years, even if they fail a class along the way. But it's not like you just lose all your tuition money.

I do think it's important to think about how optometry school is different than undergrad. In undergrad, you had to take a broad range of classes and only a fraction of the specific information you learned applies to your future career. That GPA is more like "How can you handle work?" rather than "What do you know that will help you in optometry?". In optometry school, all that information is very helpful and there's a lot more than there's time to teach. So a so-so GPA in optometry school is much worse than a so-so GPA in undergrad since theoretically everything you learn should apply to your career (we know not everything does - but ehh...).

Originally Posted by Jason K

Are you high? This isn't Powerball where the input is a couple of bucks. When you have to "bet" hundreds of thousands of dollars for your play, you'd better be getting odds better than 84%. You think a 16% failure rate is "a good thing?" Tell that to the folks who are still paying off student loans for a degree they never got.

You make it sound like these schools are intentionally failing students. There is no way to have 100% success rate.

Originally Posted by q1we3

You make it sound like these schools are intentionally failing students. There is no way to have 100% success rate.

Can you please point to where I said anything about programs intentionally failing students? Thanks. If you knew anything about attrition rates, you'd know that they should be around 1-3%. Sixteen percent is ridiculously high. Even 10% is far too high. You guys are even more gullible than I thought. It's no wonder the Starbucks generation has been taught that a cup of coffee should cost $5.

Originally Posted by OATAcer

I have heard that at UCBSO and NOVA, the optometry curriculum is set to require a minimum 3.0 GPA each semester. If the students get below a 3.0 GPA, they are dismissed from the schools and chances of appealing back into the schools are slim. Then the students end up owing tuition. Is this true?

Out of all the optometry schools, which ones are the most lenient when it comes down to dismissing students from the school? Are there any statistics on drop rates of each optometry school?

15 years ago at SUNY we started with 72 and graduated 68. About 4 or 5 people left after the first semester, none for academic reasons.

At the end of the first year we lost one to the class behind us. We picked up one from the class ahead of us and he ultimately was asked to leave. He was the only true "academic problem" that was dismissed. Also a woman transfered to SUNY from PCO.

Originally Posted by optoapp2012

Schools don't want you to fail out - it looks bad for them too. So most schools will work with you to get you back on track. That might include retaking courses, holding you back a year, putting you on an improvement plan, etc.

I know for UCBSO, they do require that you get a good grade in each class (like a B or higher? C or higher? I can't remember). Any class you score lower in, they automatically fail you in and require you to take it again. But once you take it again, I think it wipes out your old grade. The point is actually to help you, rather than to punish you. They want you to graduate with the knowledge you need (which you clearly wouldn't have if you got a D in a class and never took it again) and a good GPA. They work hard with students to get them to graduate fine in 4 years, even if they fail a class along the way. But it's not like you just lose all your tuition money.

I do think it's important to think about how optometry school is different than undergrad. In undergrad, you had to take a broad range of classes and only a fraction of the specific information you learned applies to your future career. That GPA is more like "How can you handle work?" rather than "What do you know that will help you in optometry?". In optometry school, all that information is very helpful and there's a lot more than there's time to teach. So a so-so GPA in optometry school is much worse than a so-so GPA in undergrad since theoretically everything you learn should apply to your career (we know not everything does - but ehh...).

Are you a student at UCBSO? I have still heard from optometry students that UCBSO professors really do not care and do not tolerate students doing poorly academically. I personally, am not worried. I am just curious to know which schools are lenient and actually care about their students. However, I do agree with you in regards to schools not wanting to look bad reputation wise, which is why they dismiss students.

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Originally Posted by KHE

15 years ago at SUNY we started with 72 and graduated 68. About 4 or 5 people left after the first semester, none for academic reasons.

At the end of the first year we lost one to the class behind us. We picked up one from the class ahead of us and he ultimately was asked to leave. He was the only true "academic problem" that was dismissed. Also a woman transfered to SUNY from PCO.

This is the type of answer I was looking for. Thank you KHE.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

This is the type of answer I was looking for. Thank you KHE.

This is hilarious. I gave you the percentage that failed out along with the fact that we lost a few non-academic dropouts as well. Just out of curiosity, how is KHE's post different in informational content from mine? Apparently, you just wanted it from someone who doesn't feel that optometry is a poor career choice for most. Keep searching for those warm fuzzies.

Originally Posted by Jason K

This is hilarious. I gave you the percentage that failed out along with the fact that we lost a few non-academic dropouts as well. Just out of curiosity, how is KHE's post different in informational content from mine? Apparently, you just wanted it from someone who doesn't feel that optometry is a poor career choice for most. Keep searching for those warm fuzzies.

I asked for the name of the optometry schools. Then, I asked you what school you attended as you gave out numbers. Read above posts.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

I asked for the name of the optometry schools. Then, I asked you what school you attended as you gave out numbers. Read above posts.

You can't always get what you want. Read "life" in general. You little ones have a tough time with that concept because you're taught otherwise within the liberal school system.

I wasn't aware that you, being a pre-optometry student, have such strict standards when it comes to the exact percentage of your post that is specifically responded to. I'll be sure to be more careful in the future to adhere to Your Highness' requests. You asked for statistics regarding dropout rates. I gave you those stats regarding the program I attended. I really don't feel like telling you where I went to school - sue me.

I think you should focus your time on living up to your screen name instead of worrying about stats that schools are not likely to publish openly. If you want specifics - here's a novel idea => call the school and ask them. Better yet, find a student in the program and ask him or her. It's not rocket science there, DreamWeaver. You now have the stats on 2 out of the 300 optometric programs out there. Only 298 to go.

Originally Posted by optoapp2012

Schools don't want you to fail out - it looks bad for them too. So most schools will work with you to get you back on track. That might include retaking courses, holding you back a year, putting you on an improvement plan, etc.

I know for UCBSO, they do require that you get a good grade in each class (like a B or higher? C or higher? I can't remember). Any class you score lower in, they automatically fail you in and require you to take it again. But once you take it again, I think it wipes out your old grade. The point is actually to help you, rather than to punish you. They want you to graduate with the knowledge you need (which you clearly wouldn't have if you got a D in a class and never took it again) and a good GPA. They work hard with students to get them to graduate fine in 4 years, even if they fail a class along the way. But it's not like you just lose all your tuition money.

I do think it's important to think about how optometry school is different than undergrad. In undergrad, you had to take a broad range of classes and only a fraction of the specific information you learned applies to your future career. That GPA is more like "How can you handle work?" rather than "What do you know that will help you in optometry?". In optometry school, all that information is very helpful and there's a lot more than there's time to teach. So a so-so GPA in optometry school is much worse than a so-so GPA in undergrad since theoretically everything you learn should apply to your career (we know not everything does - but ehh...).

Says the PRE-optometry student. BEAUTIFUL. A college or high school student giving educated answers like he/she was an administrator for the school.

I know. I know. You heard it all from someone's brother's cousin that went to UCBSO so it must all be true.

Originally Posted by Tippytoe

Says the PRE-optometry student. BEAUTIFUL. A college or high school student giving educated answers like he/she was an administrator for the school.

I know. I know. You heard it all from someone's brother's cousin that went to UCBSO so it must all be true.

I'm a UCBSO student.

I think the professors care a lot about the students, but they will set their expectations high because they want to graduate people who are extremely competent in optometry.

OATAcer...ignore Jason and Tippytoe, because they can't disconnect their distaste for the field of optometry from giving straight answers for what you are asking. The more you respond to them, the more they harass. Let me summarize everything they will ever say in response to you - "optometry sucks, you aren't listening, you are wasting your money, you are naive." Now don't respond to their posts anymore because they just feed off of that.

Just to give you perspective...
Med schools have about 80% of students graduating in 4 years, and about 90% graduate eventually (for those that take a little longer to complete it). PhD programs have about a 40-50% graduation rate nationwide - while they are rarely paying for their own education, masters programs have pretty bad drop-out rates too although aren't tracked as well to have good figures. I'd say optometry is doing fine when it comes to average attrition rates and is just like any other profession when it comes to that - there will always be programs with lower attrition rates and programs with higher.

Originally Posted by optoapp2012

OATAcer...ignore Jason and Tippytoe, because they can't disconnect their distaste for the field of optometry from giving straight answers for what you are asking. The more you respond to them, the more they harass. Let me summarize everything they will ever say in response to you - "optometry sucks, you aren't listening, you are wasting your money, you are naive." Now don't respond to their posts anymore because they just feed off of that.

Is there a gas leak in here or something? What are you talking about? I gave the stats for my program. If they're a little rough, deal with it - that's life. Stop attacking the messenger. And for the love of god, don't put words in my mouth. I have never once said "optometry sucks." I've never expressed a "distaste for optometry" and I've certainly never given anything other than a straight answer.

I'd appreciate it if you'd NOT summarize my point of view since you clearly can't get it right. As a matter of fact, if you must know, my point of view is this....

Most students in OD programs are hopeful to get into private practice. That component of optometry is fading away and will not likely be a career path for tomorrow's graduates. As long as students are ok with working in a place like Walmart and they understand that their income will likely be capped at around 90 to 100K for their career, I say optometry could be a fine career choice for them. Hmmmmm....that sounds strangely familiar to something that was posted during an interview several days ago. But when it comes from a moderator, it's all good, right?

You guys are in for a serious pounding when reality hits you.

Originally Posted by optoapp2012

I'm a UCBSO student.

I think the professors care a lot about the students, but they will set their expectations high because they want to graduate people who are extremely competent in optometry.

OATAcer...ignore Jason and Tippytoe, because they can't disconnect their distaste for the field of optometry from giving straight answers for what you are asking. The more you respond to them, the more they harass. Let me summarize everything they will ever say in response to you - "optometry sucks, you aren't listening, you are wasting your money, you are naive." Now don't respond to their posts anymore because they just feed off of that.

Just to give you perspective...
Med schools have about 80% of students graduating in 4 years, and about 90% graduate eventually (for those that take a little longer to complete it). PhD programs have about a 40-50% graduation rate nationwide - while they are rarely paying for their own education, masters programs have pretty bad drop-out rates too although aren't tracked as well to have good figures. I'd say optometry is doing fine when it comes to average attrition rates and is just like any other profession when it comes to that - there will always be programs with lower attrition rates and programs with higher.

Hey Thanks! Berkeley is an awesome school. Congrats! Your right, you hear stories of students failing USMLE/Med School, but not about students failing NBEO. I hear that at IAUPR, professors care and limit to a 2.0 GPA per semester/year for grounds to dismissal.

I understand, they are just haters.

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Originally Posted by optoapp2012

I'm a UCBSO student.

I think the professors care a lot about the students, but they will set their expectations high because they want to graduate people who are extremely competent in optometry.

OATAcer...ignore Jason and Tippytoe, because they can't disconnect their distaste for the field of optometry from giving straight answers for what you are asking. The more you respond to them, the more they harass. Let me summarize everything they will ever say in response to you - "optometry sucks, you aren't listening, you are wasting your money, you are naive." Now don't respond to their posts anymore because they just feed off of that.

Just to give you perspective...
Med schools have about 80% of students graduating in 4 years, and about 90% graduate eventually (for those that take a little longer to complete it). PhD programs have about a 40-50% graduation rate nationwide - while they are rarely paying for their own education, masters programs have pretty bad drop-out rates too although aren't tracked as well to have good figures. I'd say optometry is doing fine when it comes to average attrition rates and is just like any other profession when it comes to that - there will always be programs with lower attrition rates and programs with higher.

Hello optoapp2012,

I agree. Welcome back!

Originally Posted by OATAcer

Hey Thanks! Berkeley is an awesome school. Congrats! Your right, you hear stories of students failing USMLE/Med School, but not about students failing NBEO. I hear that at IAUPR, professors care and limit to a 2.0 GPA per semester/year for grounds to dismissal.

I understand, they are just haters.

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FYI... People do fail the NBEO every year, maybe you "don't hear about them" but it happens.

Originally Posted by OATAcer

Your right, you hear stories of students failing USMLE/Med School, but not about students failing NBEO.
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There are plenty of people that fail NBEO every year. This year's passing rate was only 81%. People don't often go around advertising when they have to repeat a $650 exam, which is probably why you don't hear a lot of stories about it.

And failing out of optometry school isn't cheap - anywhere from $17,000(ish) - $50,000 a year. The other posters aren't trying to be "haters", they are trying to make you really think about it. If you asked the question, there must be some feeling that made you ask that question. It is a very rigorous program, regardless of what school you go to, so just make sure you are ready to handle it. If you decide you are, best of luck.

Originally Posted by VisionsFinest

Hello optoapp2012,

I agree. Welcome back!

Thanks =D I was out of the country for awhile...I will get back to you on the other stuff soon!

I know at Waterloo they try really damn hard to keep you in the program and are very accommodating if there medical emergencies or other factors beyond one's control preventing you from completing a course.

Of course there are others who fail a class here and there, but they do try and help you make things up if at all possible.

I believe in my first year we lost one person at the halfway point and gained one from the year ahead of us. Not 100% sure of reasons.

Originally Posted by WaveofShadow

I know at Waterloo they try really damn hard to keep you in the program and are very accommodating if there medical emergencies or other factors beyond one's control preventing you from completing a course.

Of course there are others who fail a class here and there, but they do try and help you make things up if at all possible.

I believe in my first year we lost one person at the halfway point and gained one from the year ahead of us. Not 100% sure of reasons.

That's great to know that they have a considerate administration. Waterloo, is competitive to get into like UCBSO/SUNY.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

That's great to know that they have a considerate administration. Waterloo, is competitive to get into like UCBSO/SUNY.

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I have to agree with JasonK on this one. OATAcer, just looking at your stats: "My oat score was a 260aa and 230ts and my GPA is borderline 3.0." I'd say your OAT scores show that you will NOT be able to handle Optometry school. I would seriously consider if you think you can handle the workload so that you don't end up drowning in debt if you fail out. Clearly you are not good at standardized tests, how do you think you will pass the board exams, which are ten times harder than the OAT when you can't even get a 300...

[QUOTE=optoapp2012;12747339]I'm a UCBSO student.

I think the professors care a lot about the students, but they will set their expectations high because they want to graduate people who are extremely competent in optometry.

OATAcer...ignore Jason and Tippytoe, because they can't disconnect their distaste for the field of optometry from giving straight answers for what you are asking. The more you respond to them, the more they harass. Let me summarize everything they will ever say in response to you - "optometry sucks, you aren't listening, you are wasting your money, you are naive." Now don't respond to their posts anymore because they just feed off of that.
QUOTE]

......Says the first-year OD student who has never had a real day as a working OD in their life. You guys crack me up. That's why I come on here. It is the most entertainment for free that I have found. For the record. I love optometry. I do hate what optometry has become. BIG difference there. ( a bunch of corporate whores that accept spinning dial for a few bucks as a "doctorate career").

Face it. You know virtually nothing now except how to take tests. Nothing wrong with that. You could not possibly know what it's like in the outside work of optometry.My beef is that people like you pretend you do.

P.S. Thanks for finally updating your status.

Optometry does suck. It didn't always suck. There was a time when it was an honorable, respectable profession. But now.......it's not. And it will get worse in the future. There is NO OTHER POSSIBLITY. Logic and statistics will tell you that. We offering this as a free public service to you. We care. If we didn't, we'd encourage you to go into the profession. But as we see what we see and hear of all the trouble from recent grads, we deal with all the infighting in the profession, we take the abuse from vision plans, we see the great proliferation of schools and new ODs when the current ones can't find decent work...............we know your future is bleak. I've done well in optometry. But that was a different time. Picture it as the rush of gold miners to California in the 1800's. The first ones and many thereafter may have struck it rich but the ones that arrived late found nothing left for them. THIS IS YOU and YOUR FUTURE CLASSMATES. You are the stragglers to the gold mines. Sorry. Should have been born eariler.

If you or anyone sees a way for optometry to florish in the future, let me know. But you must be specific. No polyanna stuff like, "Baby Boomers are getting older and will need glasses" or "offer services like low vision and visoin threapy". These myths has been debunked many times.

Originally Posted by Jason K

Simmer down, there Sizzle Chest. Actually, after 4 years, it was 16%. That was the percentage that failed out - not the attrition rate, which was slightly higher and included voluntary withdrawal. It also included a couple of people who failed into my class, and then were failed into the class behind me. So, like I said - not pretty to watch.

Apparently, bad things scare you so I'll have to be careful with what I write now that I know you're reading. I suggest a security blanket, a stuffed animal, or perhaps a giant poster of Tony Robbins to help you ward off those frightening feelings when you read something you don't want to hear. You might also try a pajama sleepover with some of your buddies when the going gets really rough. You guys could heat up some hot coco, curl each others' hair, do some nails, and then tell cool "bro stories" to make yourselves feel better. If you want to do something to advance your career potential, you could also get garbed up in Walmart attire (blue vest, yellow button, and a couple of semi-hidden tattoos) and have a "Future Walmart OD Campfire Cookout." You could bring some big-screen TV manuals, lawnmower manuals, dog-food package labels, and vacuum spec sheets. You'll need to be up on all that stuff since customers will be asking you for information about them on a regular basis.

You represent everything that embodies the spoiled future adults of this country who say - "Don't tell me anything unless it's what I want to hear." Don't forget to ask your instructors to grade your papers with green or purple ink instead of red. That red ink can make people feel bad on the inside and we can't have that.

Picking an OD program based on it having the least number of failouts is not what I'd call an intelligent decision. When I said what I said, it was with good reason. If someone is concerned enough about their academic abilities to worry about failing out, before he or she even begins, it means that person may not be prepared for a rigorous graduate clinical program. Having seen A LOT of my friends get smoked, despite working very hard, that gives me good reason to say what I said. If you don't like it, study harder.

I am not sure what the "fail-out" numbers for each school are, but I know the number of people who fail at least one year is around the same amount Jason is quoting for my school. It may be difficult to hear, but its the truth for some programs. I also agree that if you are worried now, you need to give some careful thought as to whether you are cut out for an OD program. Best of luck.

I think it's a fairly low percentage. Show up for exams and do your work; they don't want to lose a 200K seat.

Originally Posted by optoapp2012

Thanks =D I was out of the country for awhile...I will get back to you on the other stuff soon!

Hey optoapp2012,

Sure, no worries. I updated you just now. Thank you in advance.

Originally Posted by Jason K

If you're worrying about getting booted out before you even set foot in a program, you may be biting off more than you can chew. I had a lot of classmates go down in flames and either get dismissed or held back one or more years. It's not fun to watch so I can't imagine what it would be like to endure.

You're not wrong

Originally Posted by Jason K

Apparently, bad things scare you so I'll have to be careful with what I write now that I know you're reading. I suggest a security blanket, a stuffed animal, or perhaps a giant poster of Tony Robbins to help you ward off those frightening feelings when you read something you don't want to hear. You might also try a pajama sleepover with some of your buddies when the going gets really rough. You guys could heat up some hot coco, curl each others' hair, do some nails, and then tell cool "bro stories" to make yourselves feel better. If you want to do something to advance your career potential, you could also get garbed up in Walmart attire (blue vest, yellow button, and a couple of semi-hidden tattoos) and have a "Future Walmart OD Campfire Cookout." You could bring some big-screen TV manuals, lawnmower manuals, dog-food package labels, and vacuum spec sheets. You'll need to be up on all that stuff since customers will be asking you for information about them on a regular basis.

You represent everything that embodies the spoiled future adults of this country who say - "Don't tell me anything unless it's what I want to hear." Don't forget to ask your instructors to grade your papers with green or purple ink instead of red. That red ink can make people feel bad on the inside and we can't have that.

Seriously, why do you feel the need to post like this? If you really want to help people, stop with the patronizing tone. I'm sorry that you're unhappy with your life decisions, but everyone is different, and this profession might be a proper fit for some people. It's a shame that this forum has been taken over by the same five doom and gloom people.

What is your reason for constantly posting on here? If you're trying to be noble by steering people away from optometry, then at least cut out the sarcasm. You might not like the corporate turn of the profession or whatever, but I know some people working at WalMart and the like who are pretty happy with their jobs and salaries. Professions aren't a one size fits all. I don't have a problem with you telling people what you don't like about your job, but the constant authoritative negative tone isn't helpful to you or anyone else.

You'll find lawyers, dentists, teachers, contractors, plumbers, etc. who love their job and you'll also find ones who hate their job. And sure, you can counter my reply with a simple, "You're not an optometrist yet; wait and see, you'll hate it too." You're right, I haven't worked formally in this field, but I've worked with doctors, and I've spent time with current students who are out working. I have met quite a few satisfied people. I think I'm going to like this profession too. The things that you complain about on here don't seem to be things that will bother me too much. And I hope that all of the people reading this forum (the optometry section on SDN doesn't seem to be too active) who are considering the field understand this.

I am truly sorry that you're so unhappy that you feel the need to be this constant warning figure (and I realize you're not the only one). I'm not being sarcastic here either; I genuinely feel for you and how much you seem to dislike this career path, but I don't think that posting on this forum and obsessing over your disdain can possibly be productive or healthy for you. I hope you're able to find some inner peace and happiness.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

Seriously, why do you feel the need to post like this? If you really want to help people, stop with the patronizing tone.

I only take patronizing tone in responses to those who have done the same to me. Read more.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

I'm sorry that you're unhappy with your life decisions,

All of my life decisions have been just fine....other than the one that involved entering optometry.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

but everyone is different, and this profession might be a proper fit for some people.

I've said this same thing too many times to count. Like I said above, read more.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

What is your reason for constantly posting on here? If you're trying to be noble by steering people away from optometry, then at least cut out the sarcasm.

Again, my sarcastic side only comes out to those who ask for it. I'm not going to change my persona for your benefit. If you don't like it, don't post responses that ask for it. Also, if you don't like what I have to say - here's a thought - don't read it. It's very easy to scroll down.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

You might not like the corporate turn of the profession or whatever, but I know some people working at WalMart and the like who are pretty happy with their jobs and salaries. Professions aren't a one size fits all. I don't have a problem with you telling people what you don't like about your job, but the constant authoritative negative tone isn't helpful to you or anyone else.

I know plenty of guys who work at Walmart and make a great living - none of them is a grad from inside the last 6 years. As for my "authoritative" tone, it comes out when it's asked for. I'm sensing a theme here.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

You'll find lawyers, dentists, teachers, contractors, plumbers, etc. who love their job and you'll also find ones who hate their job. And sure, you can counter my reply with a simple, "You're not an optometrist yet; wait and see, you'll hate it too." You're right, I haven't worked formally in this field, but I've worked with doctors, and I've spent time with current students who are out working. I have met quite a few satisfied people.

Same mistake made by droves of others who've gone before you.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

I think I'm going to like this profession too. The things that you complain about on here don't seem to be things that will bother me too much. And I hope that all of the people reading this forum (the optometry section on SDN doesn't seem to be too active) who are considering the field understand this.

Then it sounds like you have a glorious career ahead of you as a Walmart refracting technician. Too bad it will cost you well into the 6 figures to get it.

Originally Posted by BeesKnees22

I am truly sorry that you're so unhappy that you feel the need to be this constant warning figure (and I realize you're not the only one). I'm not being sarcastic here either; I genuinely feel for you and how much you seem to dislike this career path, but I don't think that posting on this forum and obsessing over your disdain can possibly be productive or healthy for you. I hope you're able to find some inner peace and happiness.

Here's a news flash, big guy....I'm not here for you. The world does not revolve around you or your desires. Most of the students who post on here (not all) are completely clueless about what lay ahead for them in this profession. They rely on what they've seen and heard instead of what is actually there. If all I ever read on here was "pie in the sky" warm fluffy pillow postings which appear to be the norm, I'd have gone a long time ago. I get about 10 PMs per week from people who read what I have to say, do their own research, and realize that I'm not the crazy, sarcastic, miserable OD you and others would like me to be. I'm the guy who's trying to save them from a massive train-wreck of a career mistake. If you want to be in the middle of the pileup, go for it. There will always be a box to fill and it sounds like you're ready to jump into one. I just hope you enjoy working PT because that's all that's going to exist for you and your colleagues.

To be fair, Jason K has said that optometry might be the right profession for some individuals who I have no desire to start PP and our fine working in commercial for rest for their lives. He is warning students who dream of working in PP upon graduation, making 6 figures and eventually owning their own PP that this will be very very difficult and close to impossible in the future. Yes, his tone in most his posts is very bitter but you eventually get use to it.

Fair enough. It's just the pervasive, bitter tone of the forum that can get annoying. It's hard to tune all of it out, but really it's just a small Internet message board...I'm not actually upset about it.