MD vs Doctor

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Hopefully you all know me well enough to know that this is not some MD vs DO thread. I loathe those.

Rather this is an amusing little thing i've noticed when I'm out and about at some of the bigger academic centers in NY and surrounding areas (going to be vague for once. haha. i overshare). Whenever I see someone's coat I always see "John Doktor, M.D." or "Jane Physishon, M.D."

except the D.O's, who all have "Dr. Jack Healer" and "Dr. Lucy Dok"

It cracks me up. The residents generally don't have a say in what their white coats say, so they usually have their degree clearly stitched right into it. But the second they become attendings, I can pick out a MD from a DO from 40 yards away based on the presence of an MD at the end of a Dr at the front. Obviously there is absolutely zero "value judgment" here. I just find it hysterical. Please tell me other people have seen this phenomenon too.

Seen in numerous times.

They want to avoid the hassle of dealing with lay people's ignorance - makes sense.

Chiropractors do this sometimes too.

Probably a local/regional thing, and not common in states where there are more DOs.

I volunteered with a hospital where all the physicians coats/IDs/etc. stated MD irregardless of training.

The only hospital in which I've spent an extensive amount of time working is affiliated with several osteopathic residency programs, so seeing DO on lab coats is pretty common.

Originally Posted by DrCalculi

Probably a local/regional thing, and not common in states where there are more DOs.

The NY/NJ metro area has plenty of DOs. I'd say it probably depends on the hospital. E.g. I've seen a few DO's with DO stitched on the coats at Maimonides and Lutheran in Brooklyn. Regardless, still funny. Represent your set and rock the DO stitch biatch.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=59605

For what it's worth I have "D.O." on my lab coat and business cards.

Originally Posted by DrCalculi

Probably a local/regional thing, and not common in states where there are more DOs.

Seen it in PA, NY, and NJ. Aka the biggest cradle of DO training in the US. Though, in NYC DOs are a small minority at most places. its definitely not the case in nj or pa.

Sorry if hat sounds mean. haha. It's not. Just noting that if I saw it in Michigan, id have thr top 3 DO dense states, id assume and already have the most DO residents per square milage.

Originally Posted by thecgrblue

I volunteered with a hospital where all the physicians coats/IDs/etc. stated MD irregardless of training.

Memorial sloane kettering is like that. and they actuality train quite a few DO residents.

Here in Iowa, where it isn't an issue, I haven't noticed. I'm sure some do, but the minority.

Originally Posted by FrkyBgStok

Here in Iowa, where it isn't an issue, I haven't noticed. I'm sure some do, but the minority.

Same for my experiences in Iowa and Missouri.

Not in Texas and Oklahoma, from what I've seen.

Originally Posted by DocEspana

Seen it in PA, NY, and NJ. Aka the biggest cradle of DO training in the US. Though, in NYC DOs are a small minority at most places. its definitely not the case in nj or pa.

Sorry if hat sounds mean. haha. It's not. Just noting that if I saw it in Michigan, id have thr top 3 DO dense states, id assume and already have the most DO residents per square milage.

I'm in MI and the hospital I've worked at for several years has DOs who do the same thing. I can always safely assume anyone with "Dr. So and so" on their white coat is a DO. I will say though that the younger physicians more often sport the So and So, DO stitch. The docs who are DOs who have "Dr. So and so" seem to be a lot older, probably in their 50s (I know they are DOs because some of them are attendings for my patients and in the patient charts it shows their DO credentials).

I'm from Florida and have only noticed that the D.O. next door to me at work has MD on his coat. I bet it is just dependent on where they work.

Originally Posted by NeuroLAX

I'm from Florida and have only noticed that the D.O. next door to me at work has MD on his coat. I bet it is just dependent on where they work.

I feel like that shouldn't happen anywhere ever. I understand the "Dr so and so" thing for the older DO's that are still licking their wounds from decades ago, but having MD on your coat when you're a DO is false advertising.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

I feel like that shouldn't happen anywhere ever. I understand the "Dr so and so" thing for the older DO's that are still licking their wounds from decades ago, but having MD on your coat when you're a DO is false advertising.

I know there are some places (MSKCC as noted before) that give everyone their white coat with MD on it. They call it an accident when the numerous DOs there get MD coats

Where I trained in fellowship, all white coats were embroidered with "Dr.____", but all ID badges had appropriate degrees in very legibly sized lettering: MD, DO, MBBS, MBBch, etc. To mitigate some of the long-white-coat confusion there were also badge add-ons that said "Physician (yellow for house staff, white for attendings), Nurse, etc, which I thought was a good idea. This was a large allo medical center.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

I feel like that shouldn't happen anywhere ever. I understand the "Dr so and so" thing for the older DO's that are still licking their wounds from decades ago, but having MD on your coat when you're a DO is false advertising.

In many hospitals/healthcare systems it's a matter of logistics. Physicians are just in the computer system as "so and so, MD" and the IT people often don't bother to change it. Furthermore people rarely care enough to complain (and you sure as hell don't want to be the guy that does). Personally I wouldn't give a damn. It's not your degree that gives you the ability to practice medicine and care for patients. It's your medical license (which is the same for DOs and MDs).

Originally Posted by ragnarokx

They want to avoid the hassle of dealing with lay people's ignorance - makes sense.

Lay people do not even notice, they see a doctor.

Originally Posted by HooliganSnail

Lay people do not even notice, they see a doctor.

Even when it's an NP or PA, they assume it's a doctor.

Each profession should be doing more to educate the public about what their training is and how they can help patients.

Originally Posted by DocEspana

Hopefully you all know me well enough to know that this is not some MD vs DO thread. I loathe those.

Rather this is an amusing little thing i've noticed when I'm out and about at some of the bigger academic centers in NY and surrounding areas (going to be vague for once. haha. i overshare). Whenever I see someone's coat I always see "John Doktor, M.D." or "Jane Physishon, M.D."

except the D.O's, who all have "Dr. Jack Healer" and "Dr. Lucy Dok"

It cracks me up. The residents generally don't have a say in what their white coats say, so they usually have their degree clearly stitched right into it. But the second they become attendings, I can pick out a MD from a DO from 40 yards away based on the presence of an MD at the end of a Dr at the front. Obviously there is absolutely zero "value judgment" here. I just find it hysterical. Please tell me other people have seen this phenomenon too.

Having trained at multiple large academic and community allopathic hospitals in some of those places that you mention in your post, I have never seen a notable difference. Not saying that it never happens but it is not a common occurrence and when it does is usually by an insecure person who lacks self-confidence in his/her skills.

Originally Posted by facetguy

Chiropractors do this sometimes too.

This is not so important. A personal preference of no meaning. But the chiropractor at a hospital? This is not so often.

Originally Posted by DrMediterranean

I'm in MI and the hospital I've worked at for several years has DOs who do the same thing. I can always safely assume anyone with "Dr. So and so" on their white coat is a DO. I will say though that the younger physicians more often sport the So and So, DO stitch. The docs who are DOs who have "Dr. So and so" seem to be a lot older, probably in their 50s (I know they are DOs because some of them are attendings for my patients and in the patient charts it shows their DO credentials).

Originally Posted by Bones DO

I feel like that shouldn't happen anywhere ever. I understand the "Dr so and so" thing for the older DO's that are still licking their wounds from decades ago, but having MD on your coat when you're a DO is false advertising.

I wonder if it is a generational thing? The white coats of private practice doctors that I've seen - if it is from an earlier generation, tends to have "Dr XYZ" while the newer generation (in private practice) have "XYZ, MD/DO" .... I've seen some of the older MDs (a few I know went to harvard med, hopkins, stanford, etc) where their white coat is "Dr XYZ".

Of course, personal preference will also come into play so there will always be DOs who have "Dr XYZ" because they want to hide their DOs.

Of course, this is nothing compare to some of the clipboard nurses who doesn't have actual patient care, but wear a long white coat with their name, then AAS, BSN, MSN, ATLS, ACLS, BLS, NRP, PALS, ABCD, EFGH, IJDL-MN ... don't notice a generational gap there


*I personally cover my name with a masking tape and pretend I'm a janitor since I'm technically a custodian who does the same job as the janitor

**for those who haven't been on SDN long enough, the above was a joke (not to be taken literally), it's an inside joke.

Originally Posted by group_theory

*I personally cover my name with a masking tape and pretend I'm a janitor since I'm technically a custodian who does the same job as the janitor

**for those who haven't been on SDN long enough, the above was a joke (not to be taken literally), it's an inside joke.

Dr. Jan Itor?

From volunteering and shadowing, I've noticed this as well in the LA area.

Can't say I've ever seen this at the hospitals in Chicago. Well, at least U of Chicago, Northwestern and Loyola.

seen the phenomenon the OP is talking all over in manhattan, brooklyn, and queens. i've noticed them mostly on signs outside private practices. a LOT of DOs around here do this.


then again, i've also noticed tons of "Dr. Julius Irving, Dentist" "Dr. Andre Young, Podiatrist" "Dr. Drew Peacock, Optometrist" as well.

Challenge: Find the D.O. in this practice:

http://www.northshorenephrology.com/about.php

Originally Posted by wanna_be_do

Challenge: Find the D.O. in this practice:

http://www.northshorenephrology.com/about.php

Originally Posted by wanna_be_do

Challenge: Find the D.O. in this practice:

http://www.northshorenephrology.com/about.php

It's a little sad when even the guy from SGU is willing to fess up to his med school, but not the NYCOM guy.

My primary care doc is a DO and his name on the door says "Dr. so and so." I'm not sure if that was influenced by his degree though.

Originally Posted by wanna_be_do

Challenge: Find the D.O. in this practice:

http://www.northshorenephrology.com/about.php

doh! and he's the guy that started the practice!

isn't the proper way to write "XYZ, DO, FACP, FACN" ? anyway, at the end of the day, whatever. to each his own, i guess.

For lab coats, business cards, and whatnot I think there's no reason not to have one's degree(s) listed. If I'm introducing myself to a patient for the first time, though, I doubt I would ever say "Hello Mr. Jones. I'm Charlie Hustle, DO". Comes off as sounding pretty pretentious if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Charlie Hustle

For lab coats, business cards, and whatnot I think there's no reason not to have one's degree(s) listed. If I'm introducing myself to a patient for the first time, though, I doubt I would ever say "Hello Mr. Jones. I'm Charlie Hustle, DO". Comes off as sounding pretty pretentious if you ask me.

Pretty much this is all were talking about. Dropping the degree in speech is tacky unless youre doogie howser, MD

Originally Posted by Charlie Hustle

For lab coats, business cards, and whatnot I think there's no reason not to have one's degree(s) listed.

I worked at a large academic hospital with an MD school, and all the docs (read: physicians) had the same style: Name, MD, DO, MBBS, etc. No difference at all.

the less confidence we show from our degree the worse it is for the school, the years of effort you put in, and the profession as a whole...

we have nothing to hide.....our degree are equal to..and even better than MDs

stand by your...man..i mean degree

be pround!! put the damn DO!...


on a side note...

i was also interested in the analrapist specialty...

what would I have to go through to get this....

My pet peeve is Dr. Lack Skills, MD or Dr. Lack Credentials, DO. We got it, you're a doctor. No need for redundancy. Choose Dr. or your degree... I'll gladly put DO on my coat when I can actually burn my little short white coat in a couple years.

Originally Posted by DeDO

My pet peeve is Dr. Lack Skills, MD or Dr. Lack Credentials, DO. We got it, you're a doctor. No need for redundancy. Choose Dr. or your degree... I'll gladly put DO on my coat when I can actually burn my little short white coat in a couple years.

Yeah, those things make you look like a tool. I hate mine too. I'm sure it's a hazing thing from a couple centuries ago that carried over.

Originally Posted by se20001984

on a side note...

i was also interested in the analrapist specialty...

what would I have to go through to get this....

Analrape is a pretty competitive residency.

Originally Posted by se20001984

the less confidence we show from our degree the worse it is for the school, the years of effort you put in, and the profession as a whole...

we have nothing to hide.....our degree are equal to..and even better than MDs

stand by your...man..i mean degree

be pround!! put the damn DO!...


on a side note...

i was also interested in the analrapist specialty...

what would I have to go through to get this....

I don't think it's about being proud or not. It's about not wanting to deal with the boring conversation of "what's a DO?" or having to trouble oneself with patients that are anti-DO.

Tobias Funke is supposed to be trained in Psychoanalysis and Therapy, thus an Analrapist.

My personal favorite is "Dr. Bob Jones, Emergency Physician" (2 lines). Does the job.

Originally Posted by DeDO

My pet peeve is Dr. Lack Skills, MD or Dr. Lack Credentials, DO. We got it, you're a doctor. No need for redundancy. Choose Dr. or your degree... I'll gladly put DO on my coat when I can actually burn my little short white coat in a couple years.

Agreed. That is by far the worst of all options. Redundant and just plain tacky.

I feel like, spoken, it should be Dr. Jose Cuervo, and when written (resume, embroidered, etc) it should be Jose Cuervo, MD or Jack Daniels, DO.

Originally Posted by Mbeas

I worked at a large academic hospital with an MD school, and all the docs (read: physicians) had the same style: Name, MD, DO, MBBS, etc. No difference at all.

It's probably just easier when dealing with the public to clarify who is playing what role on your care.

I find it slightly amusing, in a literalist way, that MBBS holders are not technically doctors, since it is a dual bachelor's degree.

But, I also find it amusing when med students put their med school year in their email signatures. :P You know who you are if you do this.

---
Jane Doe, MS2
Big Hospital School of Medicine

Originally Posted by NonTraditional3

I feel like, spoken, it should be Dr. Jose Cuervo, and when written (resume, embroidered, etc) it should be Jose Cuervo, MD or Jack Daniels, DO.

Depends on who is present. I'd never do that "I'm Dr. Poetic Silence" with patients. I'd rather go by first name or my nickname. However, if I was mentoring a pre med or doing rounds with a med student or resident, I'd go with Dr. Silence in order to maintain authority and respect from those I'd be instructing.

Several hospitals here in South Florida I've seen give out their own coats. They're usually titled "Dr. John Doe" and under that is the title "Physician", and then under that is their department, "Cardiology" or "Gastroenterology".

No MD or DO post nominals. Same for mid levels: it's the name, and "Physician Assistant" or "Nurse Practitioner" underneath.

Quite frankly I like it this way: no confusion on who's-who.

Originally Posted by alamo4

But, I also find it amusing when med students put their med school year in their email signatures. :P You know who you are if you do this.

---
Jane Doe, MS2
Big Hospital School of Medicine

Isn't it amazing that the people who do that share a similar attitude?