MCAT too high, GPA too low - no acceptance?

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one of my friends applied last june and didn't get into any schools (out of 25 applications).

he had a 38 MCAT and a 3.5 cGPA/3.2 sGPA, and after he called some of the adcoms regarding his situation, he told me that his very high MCAT automatically screened him out at certain schools (lower ranked ones) while his low sGPA screened him out at other schools (higher ranked ones). Of course, those are just a few of the schools he applied to, but still, it seems that his unique combination of high MCAT/low GPA is particularly problematic because one is too high while the other is too low.

I've heard of superstats applicants getting flat out rejected at certain schools, but my friend didn't really have super stats. would a high MCAT automatically screen you out at places? i mean it is what certain school adcoms TOLD him, so it's not like he's making up reasons justifying his rejections.

As far as I know, my friend had very solid ECs, and no major red flags. He did get arrested twice over minor issues (not gonna go into specifics), but he never got charged/convicted of anything. He did have some disciplinary issues at school because of those arrests, and while he never told me what they were, they probably aren't serious. I know for a fact that he didn't get suspended, since we went to the same school.

The reason I am concerned is that I am in a similar position to him stats wise. my science gpa is low, but it is likely that i'll get a high MCAT score. I just took a Barron's Review Diagnostic MCAT under realistic conditions and received a 33. I only did a very very cursory/incomplete content review preparing for the diagnostic, and i didn't do any practice passages before this diagnostic. And because i wont be taking the exam until next spring, i am confident that a high 30s is achievable.

but if certain schools automatically kick ppl out because their MCAT is too high...then maybe scoring so high can be counter-productive. what do u htink?

Originally Posted by aspiring20

he told me that his very high MCAT automatically screened him out at certain schools

What do I think? I think he is not being honest with you, and maybe, himself as well.

Originally Posted by Nymphicus

What do I think? I think he is not being honest with you, and maybe, himself as well.

maybe. there's always a possibility that he's lying.

but i've known him for a long time and he really doesn't seem like the lying type.

Originally Posted by aspiring20

The reason I am concerned is that I am in a similar position to him stats wise. my science gpa is low, but it is likely that i'll get a high MCAT score. I just took a Barron's Review Diagnostic MCAT under realistic conditions and received a 33. I only did a very very cursory/incomplete content review preparing for the diagnostic, and i didn't do any practice passages before this diagnostic. And because i wont be taking the exam until next spring, i am confident that a high 30s is achievable.

lol'd

Originally Posted by Wolverine Fan

lol'd

good for you. nothing wrong with being optimistic (with basis) and having a high goal to work towards. i got a 33 without any serious preparation. sure, it could have been a complete fluke, but i am confident that with 6-8 months of effective preparation, a high score on the real thing next spring is very doable.

Originally Posted by aspiring20

good for you. nothing wrong with being optimistic (with basis) and having a high goal to work towards. i got a 33 without any serious preparation. sure, it could have been a complete fluke, but i am confident that with 6-8 months of effective preparation, a high score on the real thing next spring is very doable.

There's a difference between being optimistic and being arrogant.

Originally Posted by Wolverine Fan

There's a difference between being optimistic and being arrogant.

and i feel i am being optimistic. but i am not gonna argue with you over this topic. i hope you have a high MCAt, or if you haven't taken it, good luck with it.

A 38 on the MCAT is about the 98th percentile, if I'm not mistaken. The odds of you getting that, even if you put all your effort into studying, is quite low.

Originally Posted by aspiring20

and i feel i am being optimistic. but i am not gonna argue with you over this topic. i hope you have a high MCAt, or if you haven't taken it, good luck with it.

It's fine if you feel optimistic about your future MCAT score. But from your wording - stating that it's "likely" that you'll score high - makes you sound incredibly arrogant. Basing it on a diagnostic Barron's test makes you sound ignorant. I wasn't arguing with how you feel about your future test, but rather with how you sound in your original post.

As for schools screening out for high MCATs? Not likely. Work on complementing your high diagnostic score with higher grades in your courses, and you'll be better off next summer. You still have a year of classes; if you can score well on the MCAT, you have little excuse for relatively bad grades. Good luck with your application cycle!

They wouldn't screen people out like that. It is likely the low gpa is holding him back. In the official mcat guide, they have a statistics table showing that people with high gpa/low mcat have better chance than low gpa/high mcat.
Also, I would not make any predictions about ur future mcat score just yet, I have seen people (including myself) scoring significantly lower in the real thing compared to AAMC fls.
GL trying to study 6-8 months for it, effectively.

How would scoring too high get him screened out? Do you think people on the admissions committees would be thinking "hm this guy does well on standardized tests, guess we have to reject him since we don't want anyone scoring high on step 1 in our class"? They may think that the applicant is not a good fit for their school or that the applicant isn't very interested in their school but I feel that it's unlikely that someone would be rejected simply because of their great numbers.

1) i agree with everyone else.. saying you will "likely" get a high MCAT score based off of 1 diagnostic practice exam is perhaps not arrogant, but extremely naive. performing well on test day is a whole other ballgame... trust me, I have had multiple friends who could score 38-42 on practice exams consistently but hardly cracked the 30's on test day
2) are you seriously afraid of doing TOO well on the MCAT? gimme a break..
3) it sounds like your friend is getting screened out because he has a 3.2 sGPA which is significantly lower than the median for most medical schools.. heck its significantly lower than the 10th percentile for most medical schools
4) you say your friend has no red flags then go on to say that he has multiple arrests on his record and has received school disciplinary action..

I had a 38+ MCAT and a 3.45 GPA and interviewed at almost every school I applied to and had time for.

The issue was likely 1 of 2 things. First and by far most likely your vague, "he got arrested twice, and faced disciplinary action, but it probably wasn't serious." No matter how benign, why would a medical school risk a spot on him? There are tons of applicants with great scores and even more if you include all the people with great MCATs and mediocre GPAs. Just having disciplinary issues at all is a red flag, never mind more than once...

The second and while less likely, but very real, everyone thinks that they have "solid ECs" and then are surprised when they don't get into medical school. This is the classic, "I jumped through the hoops, but they didn't let me in!" To save myself time I'm just going to copy and paste from another thread:

Originally Posted by mimelim

To summarize the SDN opinions, don't really have time to have the arguments again, so I'll just post both. Obviously I fall in support of the second group.

Prevailing Pre-med opinion: This is based on reading pre-meds posting in these kinds of threads:

ECs are a hoop to jump through, get as many hours as you can in as many things and exaggerate your involvement. Statistically, people with more do better, so maximize the number of things and hours. Many of them will say that adcoms may say one thing, but they either are lying or are simply practicing something different than they preach.

Vocalized opinion of adcoms: This is based on n=4 faculty adcoms that I am close to (family/friends) + LizzyM (SDN member and faculty adcom member) as well as my own experiences developing med school recruitment strategies:

ECs are not about the number of hours or even the number of experiences. They are about the experiences themselves. Grades and MCAT scores give a reasonable estimation of your studying and academic aptitude. ECs speak toward your growth as an individual over the peri-undergraduate period. Being a good student is not enough. There are plenty of students with good scores and grades to fill all of the US medical schools. Adcoms are looking for people who have done more with their time than study in undergrad. When adcoms talk about diversity, they aren't just talking about race and ethnicity. They are looking for interesting people who have had experiences that have made them better people and future physicians. There haven't been any randomized controlled trials that have shown that people who excel outside of the classroom tend to become better physcians, but that is the prevailing opinion of the adcoms that I know.

I had a dean tell me regarding admissions: every admitted medical student needs to be in our best estimation on the road to becoming a good physician, but they also need to have the capacity or the possibility to become a great physician or contribute something to medicine or society. Statistically, it is obvious that the vast majority of medical students will not go on to be tops of fields or Nobel prize winners. But that isn't the point. They are still looking for that potential.

I had roughly those same statistics. I can tell you this, every school that I interviewed at from HMS to Hopkins to SLU, they had zero interest in my grades or even my MCAT score. They wanted to talk about the things that I was doing outside of the classroom. Virtually every interviewer asked about specific ECs and how I could translate them into production in the hospital or medical environment. I can't speak for all the adcoms in the US or their screening systems, but I can tell you very comfortably that there is more at play here than grades/MCAT. It is easy to forgive a low GPA if you have been producing at a high level in other area. If you look like you got drunk on the weekends and played video games and got a low GPA, then you are SOL.

Originally Posted by aspiring20

one of my friends applied last june and didn't get into any schools (out of 25 applications).

he had a 38 MCAT and a 3.5 cGPA/3.2 sGPA, and after he called some of the adcoms regarding his situation, he told me that his very high MCAT automatically screened him out at certain schools (lower ranked ones) while his low sGPA screened him out at other schools (higher ranked ones). Of course, those are just a few of the schools he applied to, but still, it seems that his unique combination of high MCAT/low GPA is particularly problematic because one is too high while the other is too low.

I've heard of superstats applicants getting flat out rejected at certain schools, but my friend didn't really red flags. He did get arrested twice.... He did have some disciplinary issues...
?

Um no. If you believe this, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'm looking to sell. It's pretty clear your friend is coming up with some story to save face. Schools don't automatically screen people out in this range, and odds are he never made any calls. It's a lot easier to say you were rejected by "lower ranked" schools because your score was too good for them than for real, more personal reasons. Don't put any stock in this guy, or in the supposed "superstats applicants" who supposedly get rejected for being too great. This is a made up story told by folks each year who can't conceive of why they don't get into med school, or dont want to admit their failings. Sort of like saying that a girl who doesn't want to date you must be a lesbian. Don't buy into the garbage these fools are selling.

Originally Posted by Wolverine Fan

It's fine if you feel optimistic about your future MCAT score. But from your wording - stating that it's "likely" that you'll score high - makes you sound incredibly arrogant. Basing it on a diagnostic Barron's test makes you sound ignorant. I wasn't arguing with how you feel about your future test, but rather with how you sound in your original post.

As for schools screening out for high MCATs? Not likely. Work on complementing your high diagnostic score with higher grades in your courses, and you'll be better off next summer. You still have a year of classes; if you can score well on the MCAT, you have little excuse for relatively bad grades. Good luck with your application cycle!

It only makes him sound a little arrogant, incredibly is a stretch.

It probably had more to do with his disciplinary action. Howmany interviews did he get? If he did a badjob explaining his actions and howhe learned from them, this couldhave been the problem.

I had a higher MCAT and a lower GPA. It didn't seem to be a problem. I got asked about it once, and I just said I was never really a pre-med and didn't think my grades in what ended up being pre-reqs would matter. I was busy doing other things and focusing on other classes Junior and Senior year. Freshman and Sophomore year... well, some people are late bloomers.

.

thanks for all the replies, and i apologize for sounding ignoring regarding the MCAT.

maybe the thing that did my friend in is that he has no unique factor AT ALL on his app. he did all the usual activities, but not an ounce more. So maybe that could have been the reason.

as for the disciplinary issue, there were several people from my school over the past two years that got accepted with plagiarism/cheating/drug offenses on their records. some of them were suspended for over a semester. i doubt that that was a major reason. However, when i asked him about what happened, he sounded pretty bitter towards the school and that they falsely accused him. so if this is the mentality he gave off either on the AMCAS description or during an interview, then i can see that being a huge negative.

i believed my friend had around 6-7 interviews and three waitlists that didn't lead to anything positive. so he came close.

Originally Posted by aspiring20

i believed my friend had around 6-7 interviews and three waitlists that didn't lead to anything positive. so he came close.

Wait, he had 6-7 interviews, 0 acceptances, and he claims he got screened out because of his MCAT? No. Just no. Your friend's attitude is probably the issue. And you're delusional to believe him.

Great. A thread talking about low GPA/high MCAT had temporarily detoured into a confrontation between few premeds. Not surprised here, as some premeds have nothing better to do, but to blow off hot air instead of ignoring. Luckily, the med students/residents/good premeds returned back to the course. Back to the main point.

Mimelim's topic is very useful and I thank him for the useful feedback.

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

Um no. If you believe this, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'm looking to sell. It's pretty clear your friend is coming up with some story to save face. Schools don't automatically screen people out in this range, and odds are he never made any calls. It's a lot easier to say you were rejected by "lower ranked" schools because your score was too good for them than for real, more personal reasons. Don't put any stock in this guy, or in the supposed "superstats applicants" who supposedly get rejected for being too great. This is a made up story told by folks each year who can't conceive of why they don't get into med school, or dont want to admit their failings. Sort of like saying that a girl who doesn't want to date you must be a lesbian. Don't buy into the garbage these fools are selling.

Really important point. Med school application matters are personal, and your friend doesn't have to be sincere to you OP.

Originally Posted by mirimonster

Wait, he had 6-7 interviews, 0 acceptances, and he claims he got screened out because of his MCAT? No. Just no. Your friend's attitude is probably the issue. And you're delusional to believe him.

Right, it's lies. But the friend isn't obligated to be sincere to OP, as his matters are none of OP's business.

Originally Posted by aspiring20

good for you. nothing wrong with being optimistic (with basis) and having a high goal to work towards. i got a 33 without any serious preparation. sure, it could have been a complete fluke, but i am confident that with 6-8 months of effective preparation, a high score on the real thing next spring is very doable.

Just a heads up, I got a 30 on my diagnostic zero preparation, 37-39s on all my practice exams but a 33 on the actual exam. Optimism is good but don't get lazy

Naysayers going to naysay. I started from a prepless 32 and ended with a 40. But I worked three months for it. Don't assume your preprep score will necessitate a high actual score without putting work in.

At the same time, while it is possible to own the mcat don't ever for a moment bank on it.

naysayers going to naysay.

nay! Nay! ........ ^_^

Haha called it! I knew the naysayers were just about to naysay.

Im already worrying that I my Step-1 score may be too high in 2 years, probably will throw a couple of questions just so I can get the residency I want.

Originally Posted by aspiring20

i believed my friend had around 6-7 interviews and three waitlists that didn't lead to anything positive. so he came close.

Hmm......despite having the "bad" low GPA/High MCAT that he claims will get him screened out, he managed to get 6-7 schools interested in him enough for an interview. Then, he didn't get a single acceptance after those up and close personal interviews. Why did he not get in?



Maybe his application wasn't lemon scented!

All I got out of your post was you expecting high 30's after taking one diagnostic, and a ****ty one at that.

Your friend isn't being totally truthful. These stats are made very clear.

Totally agree with most of these posts. That is, it's not about stats that'll get you "in". It's more about the person. Here's what concerned me,

He did have some disciplinary issues at school because of those arrests

This speaks volumes. It could also be on his transcript or written into his committee letter.

Which is probably proof: a high MCAT indicates he has potential, so what happened?

your friend lied and you fell for his lies. Its that simple.
On another note, I never thought I would read a post on SDN where someone was afraid of scoring too high on the MCAT. HAHAHA!!

do a smp. Welcome to the real world.

Maybe he came off as a dick during his interviews....or maybe he mentioned his concerns over his MCAT score being too high, that would probably rub some adcoms the wrong way