ECs and matching

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So I'm a first year wondering how important are ECs in med school and how much will they matter when you are trying to match? I'm doing well in my classes but I'm not really involved in a lot of clubs or volunteering.

I'm interested in EM currently not sold in it yet though if that matters.

Originally Posted by MinitorV

So I'm a first year wondering how important are ECs in med school and how much will they matter when you are trying to match? I'm doing well in my classes but I'm not really involved in a lot of clubs or volunteering.

I'm interested in EM currently not sold in it yet though if that matters.

I'm interested in this too. I'm curious as to whether I can actually enjoy my summer or not!

Answers to both questions is simple: Only do things that you actually enjoy doing and genuinely have interest in. Being secretary of butthole club does not imply that you will be a good doc. Actually being passionate about something you enjoy and making a significant contribution does show characteristics of someone who could be a good doc.

ECs don't matter as long as you have a solid step score and are an interesting person. Easier said than done for most...

Originally Posted by blebb

ECs don't matter as long as you have a solid step score and are an interesting person. Easier said than done for most...

This is what I've heard. ECs are not necessary at all for matching well(apart from research). Matching into a residency is not the same as getting accepted to medical school. At least this is what I've gathered.

Research is the only EC that matters according to upperclassmen that I've talked to. Everything else is superfluous.

I think a caveat to the rule that research is the only EC that matters is that, at some schools, AOA depends not only on your grades but on your extracurricular involvement, leadership experiences, etc. And then AOA does matter for matching. I won't pretend to know how much it matters, but I'm sure it helps for competitive fields and/or top programs. So if that's something you're aiming for, depending on your school, your EC's may sort of indirectly matter.

Step 1 + Clinical grades > LOR > Research > Step 2/other ECs > pre-clinical grades

Do ECs matter for residency? Yes. Skills that you derive from non-school work can be extremely attractive to residencies. Also, people who produce a lot in ECs regardless of field tend to be able to produce a lot in the medical field. However, all of that having been said... At the end of the day, your clinical markers are worth a whole lot more.

From my limited experience your clinical grades/step 1/LOR will determine what specialties will be open to you and between very similar applicants, your LOR/research/ECs/personality will make or break you at specific places.

Well that's good news, I probably won't have much to put on ERAS anyways

Does ERAS work like AMCAS where you're given a certain number of slots to fill with activities? If so, how many slots are there?

From what I've heard from faculty, extracurriculars can definitely help with residency apps, especially in more competitive fields where it's hard to stand out as an applicant. A friend of mine was applying to plastic surgery and her adviser encouraged her to get into an activity she enjoyed (didn't have to be plastic surgery) so that she can stand out. Also, it helps during an interview if you can talk about something other than books or the clinic. Plus, being involved in groups can help you find out if a specialty is right for you and offers an opportunity to give back to your community.

ERAS is similar to AMCAS but it has an unlimited number of slots. You just continue to add lines until you're done with your activities.

From what I've heard from people who've gone through the match or are involved in selection, it only matters for the truly selective specialties. EM, you'll be fine without. Things like plastics, radonc, etc, where everyone has 250+ STEP scores, you'll want SOMETHING that sets you apart.

I would say leadership is definitely a plus for top programs, irrespective of the specialty. Why? Because these places want to train future leaders in medicine, whether it be in academics or other settings.

What if you have solid step scores, average grades, good personality and stone cold zero ECs....the closest I've gotten to an EC was eating the free pizza at random club meetings.

Ehhh Im not sure how important they are. I have pretty decent ECs (several national leadership positions) and so far no interviewer has really seemed to ask anything about them at all whatsoever. Just do what you enjoy. Its not like padding our applications like we did to get into medical school.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

Ehhh Im not sure how important they are. I have pretty decent ECs (several national leadership positions) and so far no interviewer has really seemed to ask anything about them at all whatsoever. Just do what you enjoy. Its not like padding our applications like we did to get into medical school.

not really sure what "national leadership position" means other than being the head of something like the AMA or AMSA, at this point.

Anyway i've heard from people that if you have substantial leadership experience it sometimes gets brought up and sometimes that it doesn't; either way it can't hurt

I've done a pretty crappy job hiding my identity on here, but definately am not about to list the positions out. But, they are important enough (for a student) where I am going to Hawaii in a week and the trip is completely paid for.

Regardless, the positions have not been brought up in interviews. Who knows, maybe it helped me get the interview in a first place. It is hard to say. But, I stand by just doing what you are interested in as I don't believe it makes a huge difference in the end.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

I've done a pretty crappy job hiding my identity on here, but definately am not about to list the positions out. But, they are important enough (for a student) where I am going to Hawaii in a week and the trip is completely paid for.

Regardless, the positions have not been brought up in interviews. Who knows, maybe it helped me get the interview in a first place. It is hard to say. But, I stand by just doing what you are interested in as I don't believe it makes a huge difference in the end.

What have you tangibly produced as a leader? How are those organizations better off with you running the show than someone else? Title of a position really doesn't mean much and either they don't know what you did (wasn't explained) or it wasn't as impressive as you think it was.

Things like research or academic projects/positions are easy to talk about in interviews because there is usually an identifiable product that goes along with it. When one says, "I was class president", most people say, "So what?" The same goes for a lot of "leadership positions".

Originally Posted by mimelim

What have you tangibly produced as a leader? How are those organizations better off with you running the show than someone else? Title of a position really doesn't mean much and either they don't know what you did (wasn't explained) or it wasn't as impressive as you think it was.

Things like research or academic projects/positions are easy to talk about in interviews because there is usually an identifiable product that goes along with it. When one says, "I was class president", most people say, "So what?" The same goes for a lot of "leadership positions".

Passed a resolution as a student, first time we have had 100% contacts of interest groups nationwide in a specific specialty, etc etc. Not quite sure why I am on the chopping block here. I merely pointed out that even with a national position, it seems residencies do not care all that much.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

Passed a resolution as a student, first time we have had 100% contacts of interest groups nationwide in a specific specialty, etc etc. Not quite sure why I am on the chopping block here. I merely pointed out that even with a national position, it seems residencies do not care all that much.

This is my point. You think that a 'national position' is impressive, noteworthy, etc. in and of itself. Most people drastically over estimate how good their ECs are or how good their LOR are. Happens in med school apps as much as residency apps. It isn't about padding, it is about other skills or qualities that other people don't have.

My point is, what does having a "national position" mean in terms of what you bring to the table that others don't? I would argue very little to nothing. If you mentioned it to me at my program, I'd say, "Okay, so what else do you do with your time?" That isn't to say that someone who does those things can't have great skill sets derived from those experiences or other intangibles. But, saying, "Well, they didn't go for my NATIONAL position, therefore ECs aren't that important" is simply wrong.

Leadership isn't about the title or what you preside over, it is about how you lead and the results that you obtain. It doesn't matter what realm it is in, local, regional, national, internet based etc. If you are productive, you will be valued.

I would say 3/4 of the residencies that I interviewed at (18) had at least one person who asked the details of different ECs and how it would impact what I could contribute to the program. I mean we talked rocketry, programming, rock climbing, suture labs, research... I even had a PD ask me to rank them high in a follow up e-mail after interview based almost entirely off of my work on one particular EC.

Originally Posted by mimelim

This is my point. You think that a 'national position' is impressive, noteworthy, etc. in and of itself. Most people drastically over estimate how good their ECs are or how good their LOR are. Happens in med school apps as much as residency apps. It isn't about padding, it is about other skills or qualities that other people don't have.

My point is, what does having a "national position" mean in terms of what you bring to the table that others don't? I would argue very little to nothing. If you mentioned it to me at my program, I'd say, "Okay, so what else do you do with your time?" That isn't to say that someone who does those things can't have great skill sets derived from those experiences or other intangibles. But, saying, "Well, they didn't go for my NATIONAL position, therefore ECs aren't that important" is simply wrong.

Leadership isn't about the title or what you preside over, it is about how you lead and the results that you obtain. It doesn't matter what realm it is in, local, regional, national, internet based etc. If you are productive, you will be valued.

I would say 3/4 of the residencies that I interviewed at (18) had at least one person who asked the details of different ECs and how it would impact what I could contribute to the program. I mean we talked rocketry, programming, rock climbing, suture labs, research... I even had a PD ask me to rank them high in a follow up e-mail after interview based almost entirely off of my work on one particular EC.

And thank you for completely ignoring what I said. You don't think passing a resolution that goes into an organizations by-laws is significant, nor increased medical student enrollment above and beyond anything they have had before in an organization is noteworthy? What in the world do you think a medical student could do that would be "noteworthy" enough for you? You sound like you are just trying to shoot down my positions without knowing enough about them to pass judgement.

z

Those "boring" hobbies are what I do + videogames. I dont think someone should pick up exotic interests to sound interesting.

A lot of good conversation can occur with the nightlife in a city, movies, books.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

And thank you for completely ignoring what I said. You don't think passing a resolution that goes into an organizations by-laws is significant, nor increased medical student enrollment above and beyond anything they have had before in an organization is noteworthy? What in the world do you think a medical student could do that would be "noteworthy" enough for you? You sound like you are just trying to shoot down my positions without knowing enough about them to pass judgement.

Cure cancer

Originally Posted by KnuxNole

Those "boring" hobbies are what I do + videogames. I dont think someone should pick up exotic interests to sound interesting.

A lot of good conversation can occur with the nightlife in a city, movies, books.

Just once do I want to be on the interview trail and get into a serious discussion about which video games both me and the person interviewing me enjoy, and which ones I can buy to play with him/her and guarantee myself a residency position.(Or better yet, if they have D3 and I can bribe them with tons of free gear)

If I can do that, I'll have the story of a life time. Of course, they have to ask about my hobbies first.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

And thank you for completely ignoring what I said. You don't think passing a resolution that goes into an organizations by-laws is significant, nor increased medical student enrollment above and beyond anything they have had before in an organization is noteworthy? What in the world do you think a medical student could do that would be "noteworthy" enough for you? You sound like you are just trying to shoot down my positions without knowing enough about them to pass judgement.

Those really dont sound noteworthy, probably because they sound so dull - not because they didnt require lots of effort.

Im sure your EC were amazingly interesting.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

Im sure your EC were amazingly interesting.

Mine weren't either, relax, it's the internet.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

And thank you for completely ignoring what I said. You don't think passing a resolution that goes into an organizations by-laws is significant, nor increased medical student enrollment above and beyond anything they have had before in an organization is noteworthy? What in the world do you think a medical student could do that would be "noteworthy" enough for you? You sound like you are just trying to shoot down my positions without knowing enough about them to pass judgement.

I didn't ignore it. It wasn't particularly substantial. Honestly, most PDs would consider research with IRB naming without publication to be more substantive than that. Likewise with any number of other projects. Heck, even being on a school committee could be more productive.

Long story short (my original post got erased by my browser and I don't feel like re-writing) people get asked about ECs all the time and they do have an impact on residency matches. Certainly not even close to the importance of other things like Step 1/clinical grades and LOR, but they do make a difference. All I can really say is if they didn't ask, they didn't think they were particularly noteworthy or the position/experience wasn't explained well to them in your app, PS or by others in a LOR.

Most research experiences for example will be talked about in all three of those locations and thus get talked about in interviews.

Originally Posted by sylvanthus

Im sure your EC were amazingly interesting.

Calm down bro



I have a few ECs which mostly involve teaching and making big local curriculum changes. I'll let you know if they get brought up in interviews.