Penns new Dual Degree

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Has anyone applied to, or know anything about the new dmd/law 6 year program at Penn? Can you decide once you get into their dental program, or is it its own separate program that you have to apply to?

Don't know anything about it! But that's pretty dope boy fresh!

You will most likely have to apply to each program separately and indicate your intentions for a DMD dual degree on the Penn Law app.

There was a brief summary on the Penn dental website, nothing specific. Maybe its too soon to tell, they just put it together

Originally Posted by Tunaman

Has anyone applied to, or know anything about the new dmd/law 6 year program at Penn? Can you decide once you get into their dental program, or is it its own separate program that you have to apply to?

To be honest, i can't think of a single reason you would need or want both degrees.

Seems like you would either practice law or dentistry, impractical and inefficient to do both. Not to mention it would add another 150K to your total loan balance. https://www.law.upenn.edu/admissions...ng/applicants/

Originally Posted by UltimateHombre

To be honest, i can't think of a single reason you would need or want both degrees.

Seems like you would either practice law or dentistry, impractical and inefficient to do both. Not to mention it would add another 150K to your total loan balance. https://www.law.upenn.edu/admissions...ng/applicants/

yeah, i'm gonna have to agree with hombre on this one. how the heck could you justify paying to get both of those degrees? if someone did pursue this type of a program then my hat is off to that person, bc you're qualified in a seemingly small and useless job market.

a good majority of these combined programs are useless. i remember at nyu, they were talking about getting a program setup with the stern school in the near future. even the professor who was talking to us about it was conveying the 'this is a stupid idea' message. yeah it looks cool, but completely useless...unless you want to work for a think tank company like mckinsey or something.

however, this is interesting because with law schools, it's all about prestige. penn is a top 10 law school, so it could prob get you a solid law job at a...........dentistry related company...like colgate palmolive?
but i digress, as enticing as the program sounds it's still useless in my book.

edit: do any dental schools have a combined DDS or DMD with a masters in education? that sounds like something that would be worthwhile.

Originally Posted by UltimateHombre

To be honest, i can't think of a single reason you would need or want both degrees.

Same here. I don't see how a law degree would benefit a dentist or how a dental degree would benefit a lawyer.

He would instantly become more qualified to represent any dental related company, he could be an expert witness, he could start his own firm in a high density area that represents dentists, he can be held on retainer at a dental school. There are many different opportunities if you have that dual degree.

Originally Posted by Toothman23

He would instantly become more qualified to represent any dental related company, he could be an expert witness, he could start his own firm in a high density area that represents dentists, he can be held on retainer at a dental school. There are many different opportunities if you have that dual degree.

Solid points. I dont think a school like Penn would just slap these 2 degrees together unless they felt it would give the candidate a serious edge in the field. With that said, I cant say that I necessarily understand the benefit of having an M.P.H

There are a lot of opportunities. With all this legislature change a dmd/jd would be very helpful to represent dentists. Or he could sue dentists. Law school doesn't make you a lawyer, it just gets you to think. Being able to think critically with a dmd is pretty powerful, the limits are where you place them.

I actually know some one who does this and he's actually very successful at balancing both of his expertise. Working with private practices in a wide number of capacities is a great outlet for the law degree. Opening and starting up a practice requires a lawyer and having one that truly understand the profession from both a business and clinical aspect is a great tool for many practicing dentists. There are only handful of them in Ontario (canada) based on my knowledge.

It's sounds like a interesting dual degree but I personally don't think I will be pursuing it. You can ask as many question you want about it during your interview there.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by preDENT1210

edit: do any dental schools have a combined DDS or DMD with a masters in education? that sounds like something that would be worthwhile.

I know of at least 1. Penn.

Originally Posted by BlackThought

I actually know some one who does this and he's actually very successful at balancing both of his expertise. Working with private practices in a wide number of capacities is a great outlet for the law degree. Opening and starting up a practice requires a lawyer and having one that truly understand the profession from both a business and clinical aspect is a great tool for many practicing dentists. There are only handful of them in Ontario (canada) based on my knowledge.

It's sounds like a interesting dual degree but I personally don't think I will be pursuing it. You can ask as many question you want about it during your interview there.

Good luck.

I was thinking to call admissions, but I'll wait til my interview. Friends in both fields agree with this degree becoming a huge benefit.

Originally Posted by preDENT1210

edit: do any dental schools have a combined DDS or DMD with a masters in education? that sounds like something that would be worthwhile.

Yea, see that I find myself actually being interested in. I will have to look into that at at penn.

.

Originally Posted by BlackThought

I actually know some one who does this and he's actually very successful at balancing both of his expertise. Working with private practices in a wide number of capacities is a great outlet for the law degree. Opening and starting up a practice requires a lawyer and having one that truly understand the profession from both a business and clinical aspect is a great tool for many practicing dentists. There are only handful of them in Ontario (canada) based on my knowledge.

See I would think that having business knowledge would be more helpful there (MBA, running a small business) instead of having a DDS. You don't really need to know all the basic science knowledge or all the procedural knowledge to give advice in the business sense. I think that practice owners should be restricted to dentists, but I don't think that you need the nitty gritty science knowledge to give advice on business models. You'd probably know all you need to know from actually working in the field with dental practices instead of going through 4 years of dental school. Dental school doesn't teach you how to run a practice. It teaches you dentistry. Maybe the DDS/JD would help you relate to dentists more since you're one of them, but it'd still be 4 years wasted and a whole bunch of loans if you wanted to work as a lawyer.

Now if you were suing dentists for malpractice, that's an entirely different story, but I think medical malpractice is a bigger business, so an MD/JD combo would be more useful in that sense.

Originally Posted by Tunaman

Friends in both fields agree with this degree becoming a huge benefit.

Really? How?

People I know pursuing the MD/JD have intentions of opening A LOT of clinics. I assume DDS/JD would have similar capabilities. One less person taking a piece of the pie. To me this seems way more practical than something like a DDS/MBA because JD entitles you to perform a real skill unlike an MBA.

Originally Posted by Jean Grey

See I would think that having business knowledge would be more helpful there (MBA, running a small business) instead of having a DDS. You don't really need to know all the basic science knowledge or all the procedural knowledge to give advice in the business sense. I think that practice owners should be restricted to dentists, but I don't think that you need the nitty gritty science knowledge to give advice on business models. You'd probably know all you need to know from actually working in the field with dental practices instead of going through 4 years of dental school. Dental school doesn't teach you how to run a practice. It teaches you dentistry. Maybe the DDS/JD would help you relate to dentists more since you're one of them, but it'd still be 4 years wasted and a whole bunch of loans if you wanted to work as a lawyer.

Now if you were suing dentists for malpractice, that's an entirely different story, but I think medical malpractice is a bigger business, so an MD/JD combo would be more useful in that sense.

You are vastly overestimating what an MBA teaches you and business knowledge is great to have but you don't get that via a formal education. The 'procedural knowledge' is what you could get from a JD.

And you right, it would be a waste if you wanted to only work as a lawyer, but you are missing the bigger picture of what the degree entitles you to do in conjunction with a DDS.

Originally Posted by sacapuntas

People I know pursuing the MD/JD have intentions of opening A LOT of clinics. I assume DDS/JD would have similar capabilities. One less person taking a piece of the pie. To me this seems way more practical than something like a DDS/MBA because JD entitles you to perform a real skill unlike an MBA.

Originally Posted by sacapuntas

You are vastly overestimating what an MBA teaches you and business knowledge is great to have but you don't get that via a formal education. The 'procedural knowledge' is what you could get from a JD.

And you right, it would be a waste if you wanted to only work as a lawyer, but you are missing the bigger picture of what the degree entitles you to do in conjunction with a DDS.

So you're saying that knowing the procedural laws of how to open the clinics is the big advantage? Don't people get that knowledge from opening up their practice? Unless you have a ton of capital or some sort of backing, you have to start with one. And sure I don't know much about business, but I would think that having backing from some third party would be unethical in a lot of circumstances.

There's a reason I put running a small business as an example right next to an MBA. I realize that an MBA doesn't teach you how to run your own business, but if you had an MBA and then ran your own business that would be what I was meaning to say. The running your own business part is what gets you the real business knowledge on top of the MBA (which I assume teaches you useful skills like accounting and marketing). If you don't learn useful skills with an MBA, well then I just mean a person with a JD who has run a small business successfully or solely focuses on dental practices.

I guess I just don't see how a JD would offer a huge advantage that would offset the time invested and the loans accrued instead of having someone go into the field and learn from the experience of opening a practice, turning it successful, and then opening another.

You're also misinterpreting what I said a little bit. In the original post I was saying that I didn't see why someone with a JD would need a DMD to be a consultant to dental practices. You don't need to be a practicing dentist to help people open up practices or give people advice on how to run a practice. To own a practice, sure, but if you're a consultant like the person who posted before me then no I don't think you need a DMD.

I would suggest contacting the school for a more thorough understanding of possibilities that the degree offers. I am not qualified to provide a thorough explanation of everything you could do, but I do see some real advantages of the dual degree such as doing your own legal work, which if you opened a lot of clinics would be invaluable. You would also be a leader among dentists in regards to policy and likely be asked to sit on boards, consult, run for office, forensic dentistry (expert witness) etc. You would have a very unique set of skills, to say the least. The type of person that would get this degree is likely a creative person that sees possibilities on how to use these unique skills in ways that haven't necessarily been done before.

Jean Grey, people who get these dual degrees (MBA or JD) most likely aren't looking to go into private practice. You're correct in that its overkill to get a dual degree and just be looking to entering private practice. But there is much more out there. With a JD you can enter the healthcare policy sector and specifically dental health care policies with insurance companies. With an MBA, you would be more qualified for running clinics on the business side or working in management at dental related companies. If you're looking to figure out how to run a private practice as efficiently as possible, take a few small business and marketing classes and you'll learn on the run when you open a practice. You don't need the MBA if thats what your goal is, which will prepare for you for other ventures.

Originally Posted by Tunaman

Solid points. I dont think a school like Penn would just slap these 2 degrees together unless they felt it would give the candidate a serious edge in the field. With that said, I cant say that I necessarily understand the benefit of having an M.P.H

That depends on what you want to focus on. After all, there is a reason why dental schools tack these two programs together. Look at Dr. Jack Dillenberg of ASDOH and what he did prior to his position at the dental school.

This just smells of someone trying to go into the dental malpractice niche, what else could this be used for....I don't like it.

^ Just because you want to get into the malpractice niche, it doesn't necessarily mean you want to be on the prosecuting end

I like to be optimistic =P

Sacapuntas and tooth man got it right!