100% VA clinical staff member transitioning into research career

[JeyRo]

I've been working as a 100% clinical staff member at a VA for the past several years. Been involved in several quality improvement projects in that time, however, a project I'm currently working on has gained significant local interest and I now have an opportunity to apply for my first grant (an R03 with either the QUERI people at the VA or the NIA or possibly the NIH), which is fabulous.

I'm looking to leverage this for the maximum benefit to my career and future. I should say the stuff I'm investigating is new and involves technology and biofeedback applications in long term care and dementia patients, and is not well studied, so I could potentially get a lot of mileage out of this over time.

Any advice from researchers, or, more specifically, VA staff out there who have transitioned into research careers over time? I've always said I'd love to spend 1/2 of my time doing research and 1/2 of my time doing clinical work and now it seems like I may get my chance.

Another issue is if (when) I get this grant, if I could somehow redefine myself as a 1/2-time researcher so I could get access to some extramural NIH student loan repayment money, as I'm one of those boobs that went to a unfunded pro-school program a few years back,.... .... anyways, wondering if anyone had any insight as to how that (e.g., getting redefined as a half-time researcher) happens - or if it could happen - administratively.

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[JeyRo]

I'm not sure about transitioning within the VA, but as a federal employee I believe unfortunately you are not eligible for NIH's loan repayment program. You would have to have a joint appointment somewhere else and conduct research half time there as part of "non-federal duties" to be eligible.

Yeah, saw that after you posted, thanks.

 

[irish80122]

I've been working as a 100% clinical staff member at a VA for the past several years. Been involved in several quality improvement projects in that time, however, a project I'm currently working on has gained significant local interest and I now have an opportunity to apply for my first grant (an R03 with either the QUERI people at the VA or the NIA or possibly the NIH), which is fabulous.

I'm looking to leverage this for the maximum benefit to my career and future. I should say the stuff I'm investigating is new and involves technology and biofeedback applications in long term care and dementia patients, and is not well studied, so I could potentially get a lot of mileage out of this over time.

Any advice from researchers, or, more specifically, VA staff out there who have transitioned into research careers over time? I've always said I'd love to spend 1/2 of my time doing research and 1/2 of my time doing clinical work and now it seems like I may get my chance.

Another issue is if (when) I get this grant, if I could somehow redefine myself as a 1/2-time researcher so I could get access to some extramural NIH student loan repayment money, as I'm one of those boobs that went to a unfunded pro-school program a few years back,.... .... anyways, wondering if anyone had any insight as to how that (e.g., getting redefined as a half-time researcher) happens - or if it could happen - administratively.

Full disclosure: I am not a VA researcher and am taking a position at a university. However, I work at a VA Center of Excellence, I looked quite strongly at VA jobs, and was offered a MIRECC fellowship position, which I ended up turning down to go into academia.

I spoke with many VA researchers about how to be a researcher in VA and the advice I consistently got is to talk to your supervisors and get an agreement about how your time will be split in place prior to applying for grants. I heard several stories of VA clinicians who were awarded VA or NIMH grants and then went to their supervisors just to learn that their supervisors would not give them research time despite having a grant. Thus, they had to do 100% clinical work and the grant on their own time, which of course is not the point of getting a grant!

Best of luck to you!

 

[JeyRo]

Doesn't the VA have their own loan repayment programs?

I think you'd appreciate this. The SLRP for psychology at the VA is a joke, at least where I work (at a major metropolitan VA medical center). My service chief basically explained it to me that because Psychology isn't a difficult position to fill (because for every position open there's like, 100 applicants or something) the VA doesn't feel the need to offer SLRP to psychologists except in exceptional circumstances, because the SLRP is supposed to be used explicitly as a retention incentive. Basically I think the VAs SLRP program isn't for psychologists, unless you can walk on water, or you're being recruited to work in one of the harshest, most remote VA outpost out there.

So, I've been researching other options. Public Service Loan Forgiveness, at least for me, is a no-go because under the income-contingent repayment plan (required in order to qualify) I'd need to pay nearly three times as much in monthly payments, and that's just not going to work.

Anyways, the basic message is I'd have less to worry about if I had went to a funded program.

 

[JeyRo]

It's a catch-22, a bit. So, clinician jobs at the VA are hard money. Once you're in, you're in. Research jobs are not. You can get a career scientist award later on (think at a tenured associate professor level). And that buys you a few years. My VA position is 100% paid for by research money.

What's a "career scientist award"?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think you'd appreciate this. The SLRP for psychology at the VA is a joke, at least where I work (at a major metropolitan VA medical center). My service chief basically explained it to me that because Psychology isn't a difficult position to fill (because for every position open there's like, 100 applicants or something) the VA doesn't feel the need to offer SLRP to psychologists except in exceptional circumstances, because the SLRP is supposed to be used explicitly as a retention incentive. Basically I think the VAs SLRP program isn't for psychologists, unless you can walk on water, or you're being recruited to work in one of the harshest, most remote VA outpost out there.

So, I've been researching other options. Public Service Loan Forgiveness, at least for me, is a no-go because under the income-contingent repayment plan (required in order to qualify) I'd need to pay nearly three times as much in monthly payments, and that's just not going to work.

Anyways, the basic message is I'd have less to worry about if I had went to a funded program.

Yeah, I haven't heard anything about SLRP with respect to psychologists specifically, but I've been told that it's something which needs to be included in your contract/hiring paperwork from the outset, and that it's generally used to retain staff for hard-to-fill positions.

As for PSLF, are you saying that you'd actually be paying 3x as much per month on income-contingent repayment as you are right now? Or that you're currently only income-contingent? I believe PSLF is compatible with income-based repayment, but I'm not positive about that.

 

[JeyRo]

Yeah, I haven't heard anything about SLRP with respect to psychologists specifically, but I've been told that it's something which needs to be included in your contract/hiring paperwork from the outset, and that it's generally used to retain staff for hard-to-fill positions.

As for PSLF, are you saying that you'd actually be paying 3x as much per month on income-contingent repayment as you are right now? Or that you're currently only income-contingent? I believe PSLF is compatible with income-based repayment, but I'm not positive about that.

I'm saying I'd pay 3x as much on an income-contingent plan as I do now.

 

[JeyRo]

http://www.hsrd.research.va.gov/funding/cdp/research_career_scientist.cfm


Grants in the VA system generally go like this:

VA NIH equiv
CDA F32
CDA2 K
Merit-pilot R21
Merit Review R01


Career scientist is an additional designation. And, I think it allows you to get above the GS-13 level, though I'm not entirely sure about that.

Interesting. All seems pretty confusing to me how all of this fits together, particularly for a GS-13 100%-clinician-drone like myself.

So what I've managed to acquire is lots of institutional support from, among other things, our Extended Care chief, our doctoral-level nursing QM coordinator, and most importantly, a nurse who is heavily involved in research who is willing to help me and my study group get into an R03 grant. Again, seems like a great thing and could open some doors later on, I'm just wanting to make sure I approach everything properly.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm saying I'd pay 3x as much on an income-contingent plan as I do now.

Oh wow, gotchya. I'm guessing you're on one of the graduated/"adjustable rate" repayment options currently, then?

I agree with JS that it at least couldn't hurt to see which plan would save you more in the long run, particularly given that public service cancels out remaining balances at 10 years (assuming that holds up, of course). Although a 3X increased payment would require some significant adjustment to say the least.

 

[JeyRo]

Oh wow, gotchya. I'm guessing you're on one of the graduated/"adjustable rate" repayment options currently, then?

Oh no, fixed-rate, standard plan. I got a ridiculously low interest rate (1.625%).

I agree with JS that it at least couldn't hurt to see which plan would save you more in the long run, particularly given that public service cancels out remaining balances at 10 years (assuming that holds up, of course). Although a 3X increased payment would require some significant adjustment to say the least.

I would get a little bit ahead at the end of my repayment term if I was able to stomach (or even afford) paying 3x as much as I do now, but it's not that much, actually, and given the rate on what I owe now is significantly below even the official CPI (which underestimates the actual inflation rate significantly). Literally, inflation is shrinking the value of my principal without me even doing anything. If only my income rose with inflation, then I'd be set.

 

[JeyRo]

Just be careful on how this effects your "tenure" at the VA. Research won't get you any additional money at lower levels and, as I said earlier, is not a permanent employee class. You have to meet basically academic medical center tenure levels of productivity and grant procurement to get to career scientist levels, which, as far as I know, is the only way to get about GS 13 as a researcher (I am not there yet, by the way, I am in the gs 13 scale; the only thing that gets me above that is that I also work at the university). I do know there are administrative positions where this might be helpful. There are also different kinds of research positions.funding. For example, there are positions where you are assigned a project. These may work differently as far as employee classification. i don't know. It's nothing I have contemplated yet.

Thanks. This discussion has been helpful.