18 plus questions on Australian Med Schools

[AustralianQs]

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[foody]

@AustralianQs, I admire your zeal for questions.

Although I am not an Australian medical student, I can try and answer two of your questions.

18) I would say it doesn't matter. There might be some who disagree with me. In the USA at least, MD=MBBS. In Australia, MD is considered a higher level degree but it's confusing now that AQF has allowed level 9 to be called MD's. See former threads about this topic if you're really keen. Nygbrus has written about it in more detail and has more knowledge on the differences. But all in all, it's recognized the same. Both are 4 years programs.

19) Pagingdr.net is like the ozzie version of studentdoctor if you're looking for more information but as an international I don't know how helpful it will be. I'm guessing you're a USA citizen. Ozztrekk is a application service for canadians but they have summarized info for internationals quite well. Also, if you go to each australian medical school website, they have a section for internationals in terms of information. They have international representatives for whatever country you're from or you can apply directly through them. If you want a list of medical schools in Oz, it's on wikipedia. The power of GOOGLE my friend

 

[BubblegumPop]

It's called an anaesthetist in Australia.

 

[Struvite]

Questions for alumni/students who attended Australian schools. I'm a junior who plans on being an Anesthesiologist in Australia.

1) What school did you go to and what was your MCAT and GPA? (Saw the 2015 application thread)

2) What is needed to apply to Australian schools in Queensland and Victoria?(anything different about the application process than US med schools)

3) When should you start applying to Australian schools and how much was the app?

4) How much non-clinical volunteering, clinical volunteering, shadowing, and research did you have?

5) How many days to prepare for the interview, what city was it in, and how was the interview? By prepare I mean notice for the interview and how soon did you have to get on a airplane?

6) Is the interview process different for Australian schools?

7) What was your school expenses (Tuition and other school fees) + Living expenses in Australia (estimated)? I know the usual costs is from 50k to 70k for school expenses and how much for living (15k is mandatory for the visa but did you need more). I know tuition is more and more every year.

8) How did you pay for your Australian schooling and about how much all together?

9) Housing I have read it is easier to adjust to life living in on-campus housing then moving out 2nd/3rd year is that a good strategy or even possible?'

10) How soon do you need to apply for on-campus housing?

11) How easy is it to get a car/driver's license?

12) Did you have a job while studying?

13) With getting permanent residency I have heard multiple things contradicting each other on the web. You can get it by marrying, but if you do it the defacto route (no marrying) I heard you can get PR in your last year of studying. Is that true or false? What was your route?

14) I have read people saying they're returning to the US and staying in Australia. If you're returning to the US for residency how is that done? I know you take the USMLE, but what else. Also how do you interview/get matched?

15) If you stay in Australia can you get any specialty? If you go to the US you can get any specialty, but is it very difficult?

16) Can you work at your internship then go into a US residency during the internship just to be safe?

17) Can you return to Australia once you do your residency without going through the residency point test?

18) Does a MBBS and MD does that matter? I will already have a bachelor's degree when I have applied. Are they both 4 year programs?

19) Any other discussion groups, Facebook groups, or forums to get more information on Australian med school?

You should break up your questions to make it less daunting lol

13) You can get PR by getting married. You absolutely do not get a PR automatically on your last year of studying and would have to apply for it on your own time, money, and effort through immigration. If you get an internship without a PR, you will get a 457 VISA which is not the same as PR. In order to get into many different types of specialty programs following internships, however, you'll need to still apply for PR.

14) I'm assuming you are not a U.S. resident. If you are returning to the U.S., everyone needs to take the USMLE step1, step2CK/CS, and step 3. They also should do rotations in the U.S. to get at least 3 letters of recommendations all from rotations (As a rule of thumb you should get most if not all your recommendations from the U.S. as the residency PD will put less emphasis on your LOR if they are outside of the country). However, if you are not a U.S. resident, in addition to the above you'll need to find programs that are sympathetic to you not having citizenship as then they will have to sponsor you. I'm not sure of the difficult of getting sponsorship for non-us citizens, but it seems to bring a couple of heart aches for other FMGs I've talked to.

15) Getting specialty in australia requires you to just take the specialty exam for that specialty. Getting specialty in the states require you to score well on the USMLE, recommendations, and matching to the programs you designate.

16) this is what the Australian government completely disapproves; They don't want you to do an internship in Australia only to go back to the states if a residency spot is open. If you do this, you'll end up paying a fine up to some 6 figure amount. The other thing is its completely unfair for other international students who would have otherwise taken your spot.

17) don't know what you mean here. Are you saying if you do residency in the states can you come back to australia and be an attending physician? Not completely sure of the specifics, but I know you have to do some years of training so you can be familiar with the Aussie system. The American and Australian system are incompatible so you'll need to relearn if you decide to bail

18) MBBS = US MD. However, I know a lot of schools in Australia are starting to give out MDs as opposed to MBBS. UQ will start handing out MDs starting in a couple of years and getting rid of the MBBS path.

 

[BubblegumPop]

15) You have to be 1) accepted by the specialty college (usually following two years of intern level general rotating hospital based work), 2) be offered a training level job in that specialty (very competitive and based mainly on how well you've performed at work, references from consultants (attendings), and published research, rather than medical school performance or exam results), and 3) complete the requirements set out by the college (5+ years of experience, range of different experiences and employment locations within that specialty, research projects, exams). You can't just decide to sit an exam in whatever you feel like.
It's way too involved to answer as part of a multiple dot point question by a stranger on the internet so I suggest you get your information from the source http://www.anzca.edu.au/training

18) To really boggle your mind: Australian medical schools also give out BMBS (Deakin), BMed (Newcastle, but this might have changed) and MChD (ANU). It makes no difference, it's just the entry level degree (even if "graduate entry") which admits you to work as a doctor.

 

[neulite30]

They don't want you to do an internship in Australia only to go back to the states if a residency spot is open. If you do this, you'll end up paying a fine up to some 6 figure amount.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[AustralianQs]

13) You can get PR by getting married. You absolutely do not get a PR automatically on your last year of studying and would have to apply for it on your own time, money, and effort through immigration. If you get an internship without a PR, you will get a 457 VISA which is not the same as PR. In order to get into many different types of specialty programs following internships, however, you'll need to still apply for PR.

I know that everyone doesn't get PR for just studying, but someone on another forum or website said they got it in 3 years just for studying medicine while other people said you had to be an internship first unless you got married. That is where the confusion comes in. Everyone agreed once you have an internship you can get PR within about 6 months, but has anyone in here got PR while studying without getting married?

Could you elaborate on this?

Ozzie government doesn't want to waste money on training. There was a year which internship spots got all filled and 44 new spots were supplied by the government. So they have a law about internship spots that if you take one and leave you have to pay _______ . Online posters said there is no real way for them to enforce this unless you come back to Australia. Only reason people consider doing this is because internships start before match day (US residency acceptance offers). Every US citizen who went to UQ who wanted a US residency got one except one. He luckily got an internship before his VISA expired and was forced to leave Australia. Your degree is useless if you don't get a residency or internship. That is why you see all these panicking posts every year about internship shortages. Foreign students are put below Australian students. International Australian student graduates have leveled off, but there is no guarantee it will stay that way so no guarantee of an internship spot.

(The average rate of a Foreign Medical Graduate receiving a residency is 4.5 years. So if you miss on the 1st year you can never get a residency spot or on average wait 5 years. US graduate it is 0.5 years for residency, but most of those people don't wanna leave their state/city.) Those stats are from the report from the site that does the matching. I don't care about whether those FMG are different from Australian or Caribbean students those stats would be daunting if you had 300k in debt.

FYI When I say residency I mean US residency and internship is for Australia. There was 1 other student who didn't get matched, but obviously that student wasn't panicked. Nobody knows who it was and person didn't say anything. So my guess they didn't want to become a doctor especially since there were still internships open.

 

[pitman]

16) this is what the Australian government completely disapproves; They don't want you to do an internship in Australia only to go back to the states if a residency spot is open. If you do this, you'll end up paying a fine up to some 6 figure amount. The other thing is its completely unfair for other international students who would have otherwise taken your spot.

I think he meant after completing internship.
If you get an internship spot through the Commonwealth Medical Internship program rather than through a state-based ballot, the former of which is more likely but neither are in any way guaranteed, then as part of your contract with the Commonwealth you would be obligated to finish your internship year and a year working in 'rural' Australia. However, if you do your internship year anywhere outside of a major city, it would count as your commitment to rural work. If you were to break the agreement by leaving before completing these requirements, then you would be fined anywhere up to $130,000 (which max would surely increase by the time you became an intern). These requirements are in place to help prevent int'l students from bailing out of Australia as soon as a foreign residency spot opens up (which for N. Americans often happened, halfway through the internship year). On the other hand, it's impossible to enforce such a fine, except that Australia could make it impossible for you to return if you left without paying.

If you complete your obligation (or finish a state-based internship) and then leave to finish training in the US, having completed internship in Australia makes it easier to return and practice medicine (unless this has changed in the past couple of years, you'd be exempt from the AMC clinical exam and the year of supervision that's normally required to gain full registration as a doctor), though conditions for further recognition of your specialty qualifications are separate and would be specific to the equivalent specialty college here.

If you don't complete your internship here but return to the US to do residency and then want to return here, you'd still be exempt from the AMC exam but would have to be supervised for a year to be fully registered as a doctor. The practical implication is that you would not be able to do private practice or locum work in that period, and would probably be paid at a house officer (junior doctor) level (~80-90k plus any over-time). Whether this supervision period can be combined with any specialty college supervision requirement as part of their recognition of your specialty I am not sure.

 

[Struvite]

I know that everyone doesn't get PR for just studying, but someone on another forum or website said they got it in 3 years just for studying medicine while other people said you had to be an internship first unless you got married. That is where the confusion comes in. Everyone agreed once you have an internship you can get PR within about 6 months, but has anyone in here got PR while studying without getting married?

Whoever told you they got the PR in three years "just for studying medicine" while still in med school probably isn't telling you the whole story.
Australia makes it somewhat difficult to get a PR without work experience. There are other ways to get PR including getting married or getting refuge status, but I can guarantee those special cases wouldn't apply to students simply studying medicine.

In general, to get PR, you'll need to satisfy the requirement of getting 60 points. There are several ways to get points, including taking the IELTS and getting a degree, but the most important and crucial factor is having a job with up to 4-5 years of experience (i forgot the exact details but i believe you can include internships, workstudies, and full-time positions to satisfy this requirement.
I got my AUS PR by getting sponsored by my job experiences from a while ago

 

[AustralianQs]

 

[pitman]

Don't delete them! People can use your list as a TOC...

Maybe mark them if/when answered.

 

[AustralianQs]

 

[pre med 2014]

In Australia they are called anesthetists not anesthesiologists. Also, they are putting into place a fine so people cannot take an internship and leave after 6 months to start residency in the US.

 

[qldking]

In Australia they are called anesthetists not anesthesiologists. Also, they are putting into place a fine so people cannot take an internship and leave after 6 months to start residency in the US.

There's no way to actually enforce the fine.

 

[Struvite]

I have no idea why the original poster deleted all his comments and the original question, but here are his questions in case anyone else is interested in learning more about studying in Australia:

Post By Australian Qs:
Questions for alumni/students who attended Australian schools. I'm a junior who plans on being an Anesthesiologist in Australia.

1) What school did you go to and what was your MCAT and GPA? (Saw the 2015 application thread)

2) What is needed to apply to Australian schools in Queensland and Victoria?(anything different about the application process than US med schools)

3) When should you start applying to Australian schools and how much was the app?

4) How much non-clinical volunteering, clinical volunteering, shadowing, and research did you have?

5) How many days to prepare for the interview, what city was it in, and how was the interview? By prepare I mean notice for the interview and how soon did you have to get on a airplane?

6) Is the interview process different for Australian schools?

7) What was your school expenses (Tuition and other school fees) + Living expenses in Australia (estimated)? I know the usual costs is from 50k to 70k for school expenses and how much for living (15k is mandatory for the visa but did you need more). I know tuition is more and more every year.

8) How did you pay for your Australian schooling and about how much all together?

9) Housing I have read it is easier to adjust to life living in on-campus housing then moving out 2nd/3rd year is that a good strategy or even possible?'

10) How soon do you need to apply for on-campus housing?

11) How easy is it to get a car/driver's license?

12) Did you have a job while studying?

13) With getting permanent residency I have heard multiple things contradicting each other on the web. You can get it by marrying, but if you do it the defacto route (no marrying) I heard you can get PR in your last year of studying. Is that true or false? What was your route?

14) I have read people saying they're returning to the US and staying in Australia. If you're returning to the US for residency how is that done? I know you take the USMLE, but what else. Also how do you interview/get matched?

15) If you stay in Australia can you get any specialty? If you go to the US you can get any specialty, but is it very difficult?

16) Can you work at your internship then go into a US residency during the internship just to be safe?

17) Can you return to Australia once you do your residency without going through the residency point test?

18) Does a MBBS and MD does that matter? I will already have a bachelor's degree when I have applied. Are they both 4 year programs?

19) Any other discussion groups, Facebook groups, or forums to get more information on Australian med school?

 

[Dori118]

Whoever told you they got the PR in three years "just for studying medicine" while still in med school probably isn't telling you the whole story.
Australia makes it somewhat difficult to get a PR without work experience. There are other ways to get PR including getting married or getting refuge status, but I can guarantee those special cases wouldn't apply to students simply studying medicine.

In general, to get PR, you'll need to satisfy the requirement of getting 60 points. There are several ways to get points, including taking the IELTS and getting a degree, but the most important and crucial factor is having a job with up to 4-5 years of experience (i forgot the exact details but i believe you can include internships, workstudies, and full-time positions to satisfy this requirement.
I got my AUS PR by getting sponsored by my job experiences from a while ago

Hi,

Is there anyway you could elaborate more on what you mean by sponsorship? I am applying to Flinders and USyd and hopefully Queensland, but I want to make sure I have the best chances of getting an internship at the end of the four years. I have family in Melbourne (on my mom's side) and I don't know if that helps.

Thanks

 

[sean80439]

As far as I know USyd no longer has FAFSA for US students, unless that changed back this year.

 

[aetern954]

As far as I know USyd no longer has FAFSA for US students, unless that changed back this year.

I emailed USyd about that issue. They fixed that last year, kind of last minute. They informed me that they highly doubt they would lose it from here on out.