1st Gun Experience

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pgg - what's a rough cost estimate for setting up a trust? Is there a lawyer aspect involved that having a lawyer friend could cut the cost some?

I think we paid $400 or $500 for it (which included time and discussion and advice beyond just the document from a qualified attorney). Kind of expensive, but in the grand scheme of an NFA owning hobby, it was fast eclipsed by the subsequent tax stamps and actual item costs. I think between my brother and I we now have a dozen or so stamps, mostly suppressors.

We found an attorney in our state of residence who has done a lot of them, referred by http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/ ... If you like I can PM the details to you.



Most people do go for cheaper options, and some even set up their own without an attorney using various legal software. But there are apparently some subtle nuances to firearm/NFA Trusts, or at least that's what the lawyer who took our money said. :)

When ATF waits are 6+ months already, I wouldn't want to risk any paperwork delays. Also I'm naturally paranoid when it comes to owning stuff that carries felony convictions if done improperly. I'm not saying $500 is the threshold for a good lawyer, but I wouldn't use Quicken EZ-Legal Forms Deluxe. :)

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Also I'm naturally paranoid when it comes to owning stuff that carries felony convictions if done improperly

That would be a ditto. Thanks for the info. I'm thinking a ways down the line because I'd kind of like a self gift of a .22 can for graduation and am trying to figure out if that's plausible, given an unknown residency location. Also trying to decide whether or not to fork up the money proactively for a threaded barrel. Seems to save about 100 bucks over doing it after the fact. I assume the trust has to be established before applying for the stamp? Or can you place items you already own into a trust?
 
That would be a ditto. Thanks for the info. I'm thinking a ways down the line because I'd kind of like a self gift of a .22 can for graduation and am trying to figure out if that's plausible, given an unknown residency location. Also trying to decide whether or not to fork up the money proactively for a threaded barrel. Seems to save about 100 bucks over doing it after the fact. I assume the trust has to be established before applying for the stamp? Or can you place items you already own into a trust?

If you have a co-Trustee who lives in a state that permits NFA items, they can store it for you if you wind up in a NFA-unfriendly state. This is how I, living in California, can buy these things - my brother is a co-Trustee and lives in Arizona. Technically I fund the trust and then the trust buys them; my brother does the legwork as a trustee. I do get visitation rights. :)

To make a purchase via a trust, the trust has to be established before applying for the stamp. You send your $200 and a complete copy of the trust to the ATF.

If you purchase the item in your name (paying the $200 stamp) and later want to transfer 'ownership' of it to a trust, it's another Form 4 transfer from you to the trust with another $200 stamp. You don't need a dealer for that self --> trust transfer, and the 6+ month wait stings less since you already have the item, but naturally it's just simpler to avoid the second $200 tax by purchasing via trust in the first place.

The ONLY downside to purchasing via trust is the initial cost of getting one composed for you. After that, purchasing NFA items is much simpler, no fingerprinting, no CLEO sign off.


The stainless steel Sparrow from Silencerco is a fantastic .22 can, by the way. Most distributors have them for about $100 less than MSRP.
 
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Most people do go for cheaper options, and some even set up their own without an attorney using various legal software. But there are apparently some subtle nuances to firearm/NFA Trusts, or at least that's what the lawyer who took our money said. :)

When ATF waits are 6+ months already, I wouldn't want to risk any paperwork delays. Also I'm naturally paranoid when it comes to owning stuff that carries felony convictions if done improperly. I'm not saying $500 is the threshold for a good lawyer, but I wouldn't use Quicken EZ-Legal Forms Deluxe. :)

This can't be emphasized enough. When I went to setup my NFA trust, I wanted to get some Legal Zoom docs and then have my wife, an actual attorney, look at them. She refused. She doesn't do any wills and trusts law and named 5 proclivities in trust law in my state that she remembered from the bar. She felt that paying a lawyer $450 to set up the trust (and have protection via their malpractice) was the best way to go. Part of what you are paying for isn't just the words on the paper.

Edited to add: Depending on your state check with several lawyers. There may be quite a few an they will compete. Around here these is about a $100-150 difference from top end to bottom end. One will do a discounted NFA trust if you do your will and other planning with her. I've seen an ad on my local gun boards for $200 trusts, but they scare me.
 
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Thank you for the information and the warning is well taken - it just means I may need to wait until I'm making at least fellowship money for me to not feel it's a terrible use of money!
 
Gun Question, for a script (no joke) a little research help if possible.

I have a character in PA. A doctor. Wants to get a pistol ASAP. fears for his family.
(not a rifle, can't be a rifle).

anyway, as i understand it, you can goto a gun show in PA, but you cannot
walk out with a pistol the same day. only a rifle or long gun etc.
as i also understand it, the same applies for licensed firearms dealers, and
the wait would be along the lines of 3 days.

Doctor lives in/around Philadelphia.

So question is: are any of the neighboring states, MD, NJ, NY, WV, DE, even CT, states where you can legally buy a pistol same day - like an instant bg check and walk out with gun?

If you look here: it's misleading, and says PA doesn't require permit, but not sure if the FEDERAL check applies and is what the delay is. Says DE is a may issue state, for CCW, but not sure pistol purchase is any quicker there.

If not, I can have him visit some sketchy person and buy one illegal, but i'd rather not go that route. (though, hm, may be more fun to watch that transaction), but storywise, shoudl be legit.

thanks
d712
 
Just bought a Sig SP 2022. Went to the a couple stores today, original thought was a shotgun but the major limitation was finding a site I could practice at(not one single gun experience prior to today). The closest site was a two hour drive and since I want to be proficient I figured this wasn't the best choice.

People like you scare me, and are the problem with this great nation. You had a break-in, therefore purchased a gun, yet you're not proficient... so likely could get yourself or a family member killed.... or an innocent bystander... Going to the range, and supposed to be learning to defend yourself. Indeed.
 
People like you scare me, and are the problem with this great nation. You had a break-in, therefore purchased a gun, yet you're not proficient... so likely could get yourself or a family member killed.... or an innocent bystander... Going to the range, and supposed to be learning to defend yourself. Indeed.

We all start somewhere in our knowledge and could all learn more...relax, lack of training as of yet does not mean you run around your house shooting shadows
 
People who carry guns are 4.5 times more likely to get shot when faced with a situation, than people who do not....
Children are 11 times more likely to be killed accidentally at home if there is a gun in the household...
What more do I need to type here...?

We hardly ever hear of people successfully defending themselves... it's a false sense of security that is also a dangerous sense of security...
I know I'm not convincing any of you gun fanatics on this page.. But maybe, just maybe, there is someone reading this who was only "considering" and is on the fence....
 
Studies show almost half of gun owners with kids don't leave guns locked...it's a heavy contributor to stats like yours glic
 
We hardly ever hear of people successfully defending themselves...

Most defensive firearm uses don't involve shots fired. Merely drawing a gun is sufficient in most cases to cause an assailant, home invader, or other threat to flee.

There's also significant publication bias.
 
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The nra regularly posts stories of legal owners defending themselves...it rarely makes national news
 
People like you scare me, and are the problem with this great nation. You had a break-in, therefore purchased a gun, yet you're not proficient... so likely could get yourself or a family member killed.... or an innocent bystander... Going to the range, and supposed to be learning to defend yourself. Indeed.

Perhaps you should re-read his entire post. He bought the gun and is going to a range to learn how to use it properly. Seems perfectly appropriate. Why is it a problem?

You're anti-gun - don't worry, we get it.

People who carry guns are 4.5 times more likely to get shot when faced with a situation, than people who do not....
Children are 11 times more likely to be killed accidentally at home if there is a gun in the household...
What more do I need to type here...?

We hardly ever hear of people successfully defending themselves... it's a false sense of security that is also a dangerous sense of security...
I know I'm not convincing any of you gun fanatics on this page.. But maybe, just maybe, there is someone reading this who was only "considering" and is on the fence....

You have actual data to back up your claims?

Maybe you never hear of people defending themselves with guns, but I certainly do in my part of the counrty - but that could also be because you're not paying attention or your anti-gun bias clouds your perception.

One of the reason gun owners go to classes and the shooting range, which the OP is doing, is to not only learn how to shoot, but to learn how to be a responsible gun owner, whether using a handgun or long gun. Responsible gun owners keep their guns secure, especially in a home with children. Responsible owners are aware of and follow the applicable gun laws. I started shooting BB guns at age 6 at YMCA camp, then .22s at Scout camp as a young teen, all tightly supervised. When I bought my first handgun (after my house was broken into) I took a class, which, as all of them do, emphasize gun safety. I don't shoot frequently, but I do make it to a range several times a year.

Perhaps if you're afraid of guns you should go to a good firearms class and at least learn about them. You don't have to even buy one - just take the class.
 
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You have actual data to back up your claims?

Yes there is actually a lot of data to back this up. Have you ever even tried looking for this data?
People on here may say it's publication bias, but I beg to differ.
 
Perhaps if you're afraid of guns you should go to a good firearms class and at least learn about them. You don't have to even buy one - just take the class.

No, thank you. Between living interntionally, and being a trauma critical care physician, I know all I need to know about guns.
 
Yes there is actually a lot of data to back this up. Have you ever even tried looking for this data?
People on here may say it's publication bias, but I beg to differ.

You made the claim, not me. :)
 
No, thank you. Between living interntionally, and being a trauma critical care physician, I know all I need to know about guns.

This is such a closed minded stance to take. Seeing firearm injuries in no way, shape, or form gives you any real knowledge about firearms.
 
People like you scare me, and are the problem with this great nation. You had a break-in, therefore purchased a gun, yet you're not proficient... so likely could get yourself or a family member killed.... or an innocent bystander... Going to the range, and supposed to be learning to defend yourself. Indeed.

That post you partially quoted included the line that I had been considering/researching a gun purchase 6-8 months prior to the break-in, I had been putting it off for financial reasons(paying for a wedding). So I don't believe this was a impulse buy, the break-in finally just gave me a reason not to put it off any longer. In fact, the owner of the gun store even advised me not to buy the gun that day until we talked some more and he heard I had been researching/considering for over half a year.

I went with my brother in-law who just came back from Afghanistan, if he hadn't been there I would have gone with another friend with significant gun experience. My wife's brother and I talked hours before going about gun safety, I talked to my other brother in law(sister's husband) who has a CCW in his state and guns in his home about safety. When we went there both my wife's brother and the store people spent significant time with me discussing safety before we even tried a gun.

I've continued to go to the range very frequently, both shooting alone and with lessons. If it weren't for the financial constraint of ammunition on a fellows salary, I'd go more frequently. My wife has done the same minus the lessons due to her own time constraints, but she will take lessons soon.

She and I have discussed in detail, multiple times, where things are located when we are home versus when we are not in the house. We've discussed what our plans are if someone attempts to break into our house. All these things are still evolving with the focus of our safety being number one.

Hope this information makes you less scared.
 
That post you partially quoted included the line that I had been considering/researching a gun purchase 6-8 months prior to the break-in, I had been putting it off for financial reasons(paying for a wedding). So I don't believe this was a impulse buy, the break-in finally just gave me a reason not to put it off any longer. In fact, the owner of the gun store even advised me not to buy the gun that day until we talked some more and he heard I had been researching/considering for over half a year.

I went with my brother in-law who just came back from Afghanistan, if he hadn't been there I would have gone with another friend with significant gun experience. My wife's brother and I talked hours before going about gun safety, I talked to my other brother in law(sister's husband) who has a CCW in his state and guns in his home about safety. When we went there both my wife's brother and the store people spent significant time with me discussing safety before we even tried a gun.

I've continued to go to the range very frequently, both shooting alone and with lessons. If it weren't for the financial constraint of ammunition on a fellows salary, I'd go more frequently. My wife has done the same minus the lessons due to her own time constraints, but she will take lessons soon.

She and I have discussed in detail, multiple times, where things are located when we are home versus when we are not in the house. We've discussed what our plans are if someone attempts to break into our house. All these things are still evolving with the focus of our safety being number one.

Hope this information makes you less scared.

People like you make me sick.
Responsible gun ownership hampers the guns are evil message we are all about to endure.
You just stay quiet until Uncle Joe bans all these evil weapons of mass destruction.
I bet it has a big clip with like 10 bullets or something too.
You're a menace and potential threat. I've sent you're IP address to the ATF.
 
People like you scare me, and are the problem with this great nation. You had a break-in, therefore purchased a gun, yet you're not proficient... so likely could get yourself or a family member killed.... or an innocent bystander... Going to the range, and supposed to be learning to defend yourself. Indeed.

get lost, scared :thumbdown:
 
People like you make me sick.
Responsible gun ownership hampers the guns are evil message we are all about to endure.
You just stay quiet until Uncle Joe bans all these evil weapons of mass destruction.
I bet it has a big clip with like 10 bullets or something too.
You're a menace and potential threat. I've sent you're IP address to the ATF.

U so funny!

All this talk about banning the guns...ya know, I never EVER thought about buying an AR-15 style gun, but like so many others, I'm thinking If Barry gets his way, I may never get one, and SOOOOO, it's time to make a trip to the gun store and get on the waiting list (they're sold out of course - hopefully I can get one before they become illegal again)
 
People who carry guns are 4.5 times more likely to get shot when faced with a situation, than people who do not....

Yes there is actually a lot of data to back this up. Have you ever even tried looking for this data?
People on here may say it's publication bias, but I beg to differ.

Have you actually read this study? I seriously doubt it. Let me give you the citation:

Charles C. Branas, Therese S. Richmond, Dennis P. Culhane, Thomas R. Ten Have, and Douglas J. Wiebe. Investigating the Link Between Gun Possession and Gun Assault. American Journal of Public Health: November 2009, Vol. 99, No. 11, pp. 2034-2040

Did they compare all assaults and find that those who carried a gun were more likely to be shot? Oh heavens no. That would have made sense. What they did was call people, randomly in Philadelphia within 4 days of shooting and ask them about various factors, including if they had a gun on or near them at the time the shooting occurred. They only obtained data for 1/4 of the shootings. They then compared those people to the people who had been shot.

They they treated all these factors as independent variables and did some statistics. They conclude that having a gun makes you 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault. When you go to their tables, the real answer becomes clear: you are more likely to be shot if you have a criminal record, handle cash in a high drug neighborhood, while either drunk or high at 3 o'clock in the morning (all of which were statistically significant). Just to make it more fun, even a 5% misidentification of gun possession leads to non-significance in that factor.

When you realize the bizarre way they created their case controls, it becomes very obvious that these variable are far from independent. They are comparing people at high risk of being shot to those who aren't. The answer was preordained in the study design.

So, yes, their studies are biased. The one you cited is absolute garbage when you look at your average legal gun owner. I suggest you apply a critical eye to the papers you quote...the same eye you would apply to them in your practice.
 
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Have you actually read this study? I seriously doubt it. Let me give you the citation:

Charles C. Branas, Therese S. Richmond, Dennis P. Culhane, Thomas R. Ten Have, and Douglas J. Wiebe. Investigating the Link Between Gun Possession and Gun Assault. American Journal of Public Health: November 2009, Vol. 99, No. 11, pp. 2034-2040

Did they compare all assaults and find that those who carried a gun were more likely to be shot? Oh heavens no. That would have made sense. What they did was call people, randomly in Philadelphia within 4 days of shooting and ask them about various factors, including if they had a gun on or near them at the time the shooting occurred. They only obtained data for 1/4 of the shootings. They then compared those people to the people who had been shot.

They they treated all these factors as independent variables and did some statistics. They conclude that having a gun makes you 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault. When you go to their tables, the real answer becomes clear: you are more likely to be shot if you have a criminal record, handle cash in a high drug neighborhood, while either drunk or high at 3 o'clock in the morning (all of which were statistically significant). Just to make it more fun, even a 5% misidentification of gun possession leads to non-significance in that factor.

When you realize the bizarre way they created their case controls, it becomes very obvious that these variable are far from independent. They are comparing people with a high-risk occupation. The answer was preordained in the study design.

So, yes, there studies are biased. The one you sited is absolute garbage when you look at your average legal gun owner. I suggest you apply a critical eye to the papers you quote...the same eye you would apply to them in your practice.

Please don't try to confuse anyone with facts, especially the gun haters!
 
I think JWK has a point. Six months ago, I had no intention of getting a sporting rifle, as I can get one any time. Today, I'm considering it. The more people tell me I don't "need" something they want to take away, based on arguments with significant flaws, the more I think maybe I should have it.
 
I think JWK has a point. Six months ago, I had no intention of getting a sporting rifle, as I can get one any time. Today, I'm considering it. The more people tell me I don't "need" something they want to take away, based on arguments with significant flaws, the more I think maybe I should have it.

Four years running ... five through eight look to be a lock too:

obama-firearms-salesman-of-the-year-sad-hill-news.jpg



It's not all bad. I've met a ton of new people at the range in the last 4 years, and have had lots of casual friends and acquaintances approach me and the other range-regulars about joining us.
 
So, yes, their studies are biased. The one you cited is absolute garbage when you look at your average legal gun owner. I suggest you apply a critical eye to the papers you quote...the same eye you would apply to them in your practice.

Pretty typical of Douglas Weibe's publications. His goal seems to be to create as much biased information about firearms use as possible to support gun control initiatives.
 
Doctor lives in/around Philadelphia.

So question is: are any of the neighboring states, MD, NJ, NY, WV, DE, even CT, states where you can legally buy a pistol same day - like an instant bg check and walk out with gun?

No, not legally possible. Per federal law, you can only purchase a handgun in your state of residence.
 
Just putting this story out there:

I', not currently in the US, but the past few days its been snowing very hard here. I went to grab some stuff from the store and a bunch of goons were pelting little kids and any passerby with snowballs. I picked up a snowball and threw one at them and a couple of them chased us down and started scuffling. When they saw I wasn't going to get up and run away one of them pulled out a gun. Thankfully his friends came and took him away, but its made me think about this whole gun thing.

I imagine I'd feel a lot safer with a gun, but pulling out a weapon is just going to escalate situations like this. On the other hand, its not a given that someone is going to be around to stop whoever it is the next time around.
 
Are you in Russia? That just sounds like Russia..

At any rate, the lesson I'd take away from that is not to start unnecessary conflicts. Call the police.
 
I imagine I'd feel a lot safer with a gun, but pulling out a weapon is just going to escalate situations like this.

You shouldn't own a gun, much less carry one, if you can't first break the habit of getting into scuffles over trivial **** that doesn't involve you.

I'm sure those guys were dicks. I'm sure the people getting pelted with snowballs were glad to see some random guy (you) step in. I'm also sure that nobody was at risk of serious injury.

You're not a cop. If it's not worth killing or dying over, it's not worth fighting some stranger over it. Fistfights are not benign. Heads can get stomped into curbs or weapons can appear. Always avoid, always de-escalate, you've got nothing to prove to anyone.
 
Are you in Russia? That just sounds like Russia..

At any rate, the lesson I'd take away from that is not to start unnecessary conflicts. Call the police.

My point is though, you can never know how things are going to happen. Nobody would ever think a snowball would cause someone to draw a gun but it happens. I've never been a proponent of everybody arming themselves, but I also see how banning all weapons isn't the answer.
 
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You shouldn't own a gun, much less carry one, if you can't first break the habit of getting into scuffles over trivial **** that doesn't involve you.

I'm sure those guys were dicks. I'm sure the people getting pelted with snowballs were glad to see some random guy (you) step in. I'm also sure that nobody was at risk of serious injury.

You're not a cop. If it's not worth killing or dying over, it's not worth fighting some stranger over it. Fistfights are not benign. Heads can get stomped into curbs or weapons can appear. Always avoid, always de-escalate, you've got nothing to prove to anyone.
I'm actually a very benign person, that might have been my first real fight I've been in. I do understand what you mean, but my story was just to illustrate how volatile people can be.
 
I'm actually a very benign person, that might have been my first real fight I've been in. I do understand what you mean, but my story was just to illustrate how volatile people can be.

Re-reading my post it came off as a little judgmental, which I didn't really intend that way. Just a comment on how important it is to avoid & de-escalate, because you never know when some whackjob will pull a gun over a snowball. Glad no one got hurt. :)
 
You shouldn't own a gun, much less carry one...

I disagree. I think everyone should own a gun.

It was a right granted to us with the 2nd amendment. In order to leave freely, we must exercise all rights without ANY limitations.

WM1846
 
Re-reading my post it came off as a little judgmental....

Ban PGG!!!!!!!!!! Judgements should only be used on SDN's anesthesia forum for the sake of banning years-long users.

MW1846
 
Ban PGG!!!!!!!!!! Judgements should only be used on SDN's anesthesia forum for the sake of banning years-long users.

MW1846

Give it a rest, man. You're in Hollywood. Go have a couple of drinks, live it up, wake up and count your bennies because you have a job. This isn't going to accomplish anything.
 
Give it a rest, man. You're in Hollywood. Go have a couple of drinks, live it up, wake up and count your bennies because you have a job. This isn't going to accomplish anything.

Shhhh, that's banable talk. I'm going out soon. It's early dude... 830, who goes out at 830?

D712
 
I disagree. I think everyone should own a gun.

It was a right granted to us with the 2nd amendment. In order to leave freely, we must exercise all rights without ANY limitations.

WM1846

I wouldn't say that the constitution grants us rights as much as it does recognize natural rights we already have if you think about a freedom philosophy, the basic right to stop someone else from victimizing you and having the power to defend your other rights is paramount.
 
New toy, with threaded barrel adapter (but no can in the foreseeable future unfortunately)

VxQuXgz.jpg


Now, the hunt for non-marked up bricks of .22

Yeah, highlighter, med student etc.
 
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Need to work a couple of extra shifts moonlighting to get my Benelli M4 suckahs. No "click-clack" to warn criminals of my presence. Semiauto buckshot all up in their Grill as fast as I can pull the trigger.
 
Found half a brick of .22 lying around. One FTFeed in 250 rounds, otherwise flawless (with winchester white box bulk). Sights did need a little adjustment (started low and right), but after a couple clicks put 14/20 on an 8"x8" target at 25 yards offhand (I know a lot of you can do plenty better, but that's great for me - gun definitely has way more accuracy than I'm capable of right now). Big A+ for the SR22.

Now to wait for the crazed ammo buying to die down :(
 
Found half a brick of .22 lying around. One FTFeed in 250 rounds, otherwise flawless (with winchester white box bulk). Sights did need a little adjustment (started low and right), but after a couple clicks put 14/20 on an 8"x8" target at 25 yards offhand (I know a lot of you can do plenty better, but that's great for me - gun definitely has way more accuracy than I'm capable of right now). Big A+ for the SR22.

Now to wait for the crazed ammo buying to die down :(

New gun buyer seeking single weapon for for plinking + home defense + hunting small game.

Thinking along the lines of Colt .22 M4 Rimfire.

do4bra.png


Thoughts or suggestions?
 
Big A+ for the SR22.

My father in law has one of those. Fun gun. :)


New gun buyer seeking single weapon for for plinking + home defense + hunting small game.

Thinking along the lines of Colt .22 M4 Rimfire.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Two thoughts -
1) For a first gun / new shooter, I'm not so sure a rifle is the best self defense choice, in part because you can't carry it, if you ever choose to go there.
2) 22lr is not adequate for self defense. It's a plinking / practice / small game round.

Single weapon choices for those 3 tasks are somewhat limited. For a handgun, you could get a 9mm semi plus a 22lr barrel/conversion for it. This gives you an adequate self defense with quality 9mm defensive ammunition, plus the super cheap 22lr option plinking/practice too. I don't hunt, but I wouldn't start with a handgun.

For a rifle, a regular .223 AR with a 2nd upper in 22lr (or even a bolt/magazine conversion kit) would work too. I think a suppressed short-barreled AR is the ideal defensive gun, but that's not first-gun territory.


Find a range with rentals, get some instruction if you're a beginner, try out different handguns, pick one, you like buy ammo, and practice.

These are expensive and frustrating times for new gun owners. The market will cool off in a few months or a year, if you can't find something you really want at a reasonable price.
 
New gun buyer seeking single weapon for for plinking + home defense + hunting small game.

Thinking along the lines of Colt .22 M4 Rimfire.

Thoughts or suggestions?

How do you define "small game?" I will assume by "small game" you mean rabbits and similar sized animals.

To fulfill all three roles in one weapon is pretty tricky. Consider what you are demanding from the weapon and it becomes clear how large of a challenge you are proposing.

You are looking for a weapon that will be effective on a 150-200 pound human while at the same time being effective on a 1-4 pound animal without damaging it too much to eat. You also want something cheap to shoot for plinking. It is kind of like asking what kind of hammer you should get for doing everything from driving finishing nails, to framing, to pounding posts. You are going to have to select the most critical application for yourself then compromise on the others.

No doubt 22 long rifle is cheapest. It is also effective on small game at a reasonable range. Can it kill a human? Yes. Three of my family members were executed with a single shot, bolt-action 22 rifle. However, it isn't ideal, especially in a home defense scenario. It is underpowered for taking on large animals such as humans even if it is theoretically plausible.

You can go bigger, to an ideal home defense caliber, but you will have to compromise on the cost and you will do too much damage on the small game.

If I were going to select a single gun for all of this, it would be a AR style .223 centerfire. You can select loads that will do minimal damage to small game (Light, full metal jacket and avoid the "varmint" loads). You can select loads that are more appropriate for human sized targets (understanding that this is such a low-power caliber that it is banned for deer hunting in multiple jurisdictions). You can buy "cheap" plinking ammo for it (understanding that this is still 3-5 times the cost of 22LR).

You can do the caliber conversion thing, but pay close attention to the total cost and the reliability. I don't like running cheap 22 loads through a weapon that I am going to rely on for self defense either. Personally I would just buy a second, cosmetically and functionally similar, weapon in 22LR.

All that being said, you could do a lot worse than a AR style semi-auto 22LR for your first gun. The best one on the market right now is the Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22 IMHO. It is the closest functional replica of a full size AR. If you learn on it, that training will be directly transferrable to a full-size AR. Arguably a bolt action would be marginally safer though.

I don't think a handgun is the best first gun, and fulfilling the three criteria with a handgun is even trickier.

- pod
 
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