2+2 vs 3+1

[Pistol Pete]

As one hoping to enter a CVM fall of 09, I would like to hear from those of you currently in programs that are 2+2 and 3+1. From various postings, it doesn't appear that the two formats are black and white different but rather shades of grey in that the 3+1 is not a hard and fast no clinics till year 4 and there are probably classroom only courses after year 2 in the 2+2 colleges.

Realizing most students want to get their hands on live animals as soon as possible the 2+2 programs do appeal to me but does it come at a cost(attrition, burnout,etc) of more didactic work crammed in over 2 years that others handle over 3.

Any 3+1 that wish they had chosen 2+2 or vice versa?

Thanks for the feedback.

Pete

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[Mylez]

I think Oregon counts as being 3+1, but not really sure.

Being in the throes of having stuff crammed down my throat, I will say I do wish that I had known that there were schools that had 2+2 vs 3+1. It isn't to say that our third year isn't more hands on. Third year we start doing surgeries, therio labs, etc. and even at the end of this year we'll be doing anesthesiology and suturing, etc. But I would be so very excited if I was starting actual clinics next year instead of two years.

With Oregon, we start our senior year clinics right after we are done with junior year to give us time to cram it all in. So I'm curious what the difference is, too, between a 3+1 and 2+2 school...I think MOST schools are 3+1, am I wrong?

 

[pressmom]

UTK is a 3 + 1 school. I feel like we get a lot more electives than a 2 + 2 school and we get a lot of hands on contact with animals starting semester 1. We have opportunities to do surgery from year two on. I've already done my first one and I'm just starting my 4th semester. Our small class size combined with a fairly good caseload means we get a lot to do 4th year. In fact, I've heard some seniors complain they have too much to do. Of course it varies week to week rotation to rotation. My class only has 68 people, but 2012 has 95 (this was an accident), but subsequent classes will have 85.

 

[dyachei]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2+2 schools tend to have shorter summer vacations (I think its 6 weeks). To me the opportunity to take some time for myself and then be able to work to at least not have as much debt is worth not going to a 2+2 school.

And like Pressmom said, UTK has a lot of hands on opportunities. We have 3 weeks of clinical experiences before we start in clinics in addition to the many hands on classes and electives.

I personally do well in a 3+1 setting. The pace is a good one for me.

 

[Electrophile]

I am a much more hands on, problem based kind of learner, so the 2 + 2 is ideal for me. Learning things as factoids without a context beyond knowing it for the test is almost worthless for me. In fact, if I hear "chloramphenicol causes fatal aplastic anemia in humans" one more time, I'll probably scream. But yeah, we have 6 weeks for summer, which makes getting a summer job or doing research more difficult. However, we get at least one semester more for free blocks for preceptorships and externships (some of which are paid), so it can possibly even out. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but they tell us frequently that us Mizzou grads are prized for generally having more clinical experience because of the 2 + 2. Besides, you're getting trained how to be a clinician, not to take tests. Well...in theory.

 

[RazorDoc2010]

I'm also at Mizzou (a 2-2 school), and I am so glad that we don't have another year before clinics! We start doing surgery in our 2nd year, and there are plenty of opportunities to get hands-on through VM1&2 so I don't feel like we're getting slighted in the least. And I'm with electro..."Enrofloxacin can cause retinal degeneration in cats when dosed above 5 mg/kg"...we're like walking pharmaceutical salespeople at this point.

 

[Angelo84]

I am a much more hands on, problem based kind of learner, so the 2 + 2 is ideal for me. Learning things as factoids without a context beyond knowing it for the test is almost worthless for me. In fact, if I hear "chloramphenicol causes fatal aplastic anemia in humans" one more time, I'll probably scream. But yeah, we have 6 weeks for summer, which makes getting a summer job or doing research more difficult. However, we get at least one semester more for free blocks for preceptorships and externships (some of which are paid), so it can possibly even out. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but they tell us frequently that us Mizzou grads are prized for generally having more clinical experience because of the 2 + 2. Besides, you're getting trained how to be a clinician, not to take tests. Well...in theory.

you forgot the important part of that statement--"which is why you can't give it to farm animals!" Ah yes the joys of pharmacology!

To answer the question I prefer the 3 +1 system. I feel like things are already packed into the curriculum and I can't imagine having a year less to get it all in. We also have animal contact starting first year so its not three straight year of class room only. We do our first surgeries (two spays) in our third year and go into clinics in March of our third year.

 

[ratbandit]

I'm definitely glad that I go to a 2 + 2! The only downside I would say is the block scheduling combined with trying to get everything squeezed in to 2 years makes it very fast paced and relentless when it comes to tests and quizzes.

 

[MooSuga]

What is 3+1 or 2+2? I don't have a damn clue.

 

[bclover]

MooSuga,

I believe that it means 3+1 = three years in class & one in clinics; whereas 2+2 = two years each of class & clinics

 

[MooSuga]

MooSuga,

I believe that it means 3+1 = three years in class & one in clinics; whereas 2+2 = two years each of class & clinics

Ahh thank you for the clarification. Now I understand!

 

[LVT2DVM]

.

 

[twelvetigers]

Yep, Oklahoma is the same way. May of this year, the current fourth years will graduate and the current thirds will take up the slack for the following year.

 

[ri23]

I don't like the 3/1 2/2 classification, so here is what OSU does:

8 Quarters Class
5 Quarters Clinics

That being said, the last 2 quarters of class the students are doing spays, neuters, dentals etc.

 

[RazorDoc2010]

I don't like the 3/1 2/2 classification, so here is what OSU does:

8 Quarters Class
5 Quarters Clinics

That being said, the last 2 quarters of class the students are doing spays, neuters, dentals etc.

For comparisons sake, Mizzou would be something like:

11 8-week blocks of Class
12 6-8 week blocks of Clinics

Our last 2 blocks of class include small animal surgery labs (spay, neuter, and more advanced surgeries)

 

[Pistol Pete]

For comparisons sake, Mizzou would be something like:

11 8-week blocks of Class
12 6-8 week blocks of Clinics

Our last 2 blocks of class include small animal surgery labs (spay, neuter, and more advanced surgeries)

RazorDoc,

So in a 12 month period, a first year Missouri student will go through 6 of the 8 week blocks? Leaving approximately 4 weeks out of the year for holiday/vacation?

Thanks

PP

 

[Electrophile]

Not exactly...on a calendar schedule, it looks like this for the classroom stuff first through a little bit of third year:

-fall semester (first year): class from August to December as usual for block 1 & 2 with 1 week for Thanksgiving, 2-3 for Christmas
-winter/spring semester: block 3 & 4 from January to early/mid May with one week for spring break plus an extra day or two for people who want to go to SAVMA symposium
-summer semester: block 5 from early/mid may to early July, summer break from early July to mid August (~6 weeks)
-fall semester (second year): block 6 & 7 from mid August to December, with 1 week for Thanksgiving, 2-3 for Christmas
-winter/spring semester: block 8 & 9 from January to early/mid May with one week plus an extra day or two for spring break/symposium again
-summer semester: block 10 from early/mid may to early July, summer break again from early July to mid August (~6 weeks)
-fall semester (third year): block 11 from mid August to mid October, then start clinicals! You have an individual set schedule for clinical rotations, but everyone has to complete the same required rotations and a certain amount of electives, plus preceptor/extern hours more or less at the location of your choice (with some exceptions).

So basically during the first 2 years, you get a week for Thanksgiving and spring break, 2-3 for Christmas/winter break, and 6ish weeks for summer. Hope that makes sense for the classroom portion of things!

 

[ZooNose]

Could anyone take the time to clarify Colorado State's program for me? Looking at the curriculum, it seems to be a 2+2, but I'm not 100% sure. I'd love to hear how current CSU students feel about it. It's going to be a big factor in my school decision making, for sure. Thanks!