2 Questions

[helpabrotherout]

So I have two questions. I hear a lot of people talking about sending in medical school applications early. What is considered early for med school applications (I remember for college apps it was sending them in around August, but people in the pre allo forum seem to be sending them in much earlier). Also, I hear everyone make a big deal about the USMLE Step 1, but no one ever talks about Steps 2 or 3. Is this because they don't really matter for residencies, or is it because they're way easier than Step 1 so people don't really worry about them?

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[superpom_7]

You might get more answers if you post this in Pre-Med, but I just did some quick research about applying early and according to this http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-application-process-why-apply-early/ you can send in your application as soon as you get your MCAT score (by June 1st).

 

[Apoplexy__]

So I have two questions. I hear a lot of people talking about sending in medical school applications early. What is considered early for med school applications (I remember for college apps it was sending them in around August, but people in the pre allo forum seem to be sending them in much earlier). Also, I hear everyone make a big deal about the USMLE Step 1, but no one ever talks about Steps 2 or 3. Is this because they don't really matter for residencies, or is it because they're way easier than Step 1 so people don't really worry about them?

I'll comment on the USMLE stuff since it's more fresh with me.

Step 1 is definitely far more difficult like you said, but it's also because it's the single most important one. It and Step 2 determine your residency competitiveness, with Step 1 playing a larger role. Usually, how well you do on Step 1 sets the stage for the rest. In other words, if you struggled with cardiac physiology in MS1-2, then you'll probably struggle with it in MS3-4 (same goes for doing well in a given subject).

A timeline if you were curious:
-Step 1 = End of MS2 (rarely during MS3)
-Step 2 (both parts) = End of MS3 (sometimes during MS4)
-Step 3 = End of 1st year of residency

 

[helpabrotherout]

You might get more answers if you post this in Pre-Med, but I just did some quick research about applying early and according to this http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/03/the-application-process-why-apply-early/ you can send in your application as soon as you get your MCAT score (by June 1st).

Thanks. Wow, so I might actually want to take the MCAT in the summer after sophomore year, since I was planning on studying for an entire summer and then taking it at the end of it. I'll definitely try to apply by June 1st to maximize my chances.

I'll comment on the USMLE stuff since it's more fresh with me.

Step 1 is definitely far more difficult like you said, but it's also because it's the single most important one. It and Step 2 determine your residency competitiveness, with Step 1 playing a larger role. Usually, how well you do on Step 1 sets the stage for the rest. In other words, if you struggled with cardiac physiology in MS1-2, then you'll probably struggle with it in MS3-4 (same goes for doing well in a given subject).

A timeline if you were curious:
-Step 1 = End of MS2 (rarely during MS3)
-Step 2 (both parts) = End of MS3 (sometimes during MS4)
-Step 3 = End of 1st year of residency

I see, thanks for the insight.

 

[Stagg737]

There are a lot of ways you can approach the MCAT. Studying over the summer and taking it in August/Sept. of junior year isn't a bad idea, just make sure you've taken all the classes that will be on it (physics, gen. chem, O-chem, genetics, human phys, and cell bio are the biggest ones). Another thing many people do is take some of these classes like genetics and human phys fall of junior year and then take the test early the following spring. That way you don't have to study those subjects much since it should be fresh in your mind. Either way, the sooner you get your apps submitted the better your chances typically are. Get your primaries in by the end of June (the application typically opens around the 4th or 5th), and try and complete secondaries within a week of receiving them. People will post the essay questions on this site's application threads, so you can actually write the essays before you even get the secondary and just submit it immediately.

Another thing to keep in mind with boards that Kirby didn't mention, Step 1 is sometimes the only step residencies will see depending on how early you apply to residencies and how late you take Step 2. I've heard of people dominating Step 1 and intentionally taking Step 2 late so residencies will only see their first score. I've also heard of people who did poorly or average on Step 1 take Step 2 early in hopes of scoring really high and increasing their chances of getting into more competitive specialties. This is why Step 1 is always talked about and seen as so important, because every residency sees every applicant's Step 1 score while some applicants will not yet have a Step 2 score. Step 3 is actually the most exciting imo because from what I understand you are not considered fully licensed or paid as a physician until you pass Step 3. Once you finish that you start getting paid and additionally can start moonlighting on the side to make extra money. So even after you graduate med school, you still aren't really considered a full on physician by a lot of medical professionals until you complete all your boards.

 

[helpabrotherout]

There are a lot of ways you can approach the MCAT. Studying over the summer and taking it in August/Sept. of junior year isn't a bad idea, just make sure you've taken all the classes that will be on it (physics, gen. chem, O-chem, genetics, human phys, and cell bio are the biggest ones). Another thing many people do is take some of these classes like genetics and human phys fall of junior year and then take the test early the following spring. That way you don't have to study those subjects much since it should be fresh in your mind. Either way, the sooner you get your apps submitted the better your chances typically are. Get your primaries in by the end of June (the application typically opens around the 4th or 5th), and try and complete secondaries within a week of receiving them. People will post the essay questions on this site's application threads, so you can actually write the essays before you even get the secondary and just submit it immediately.

Another thing to keep in mind with boards that Kirby didn't mention, Step 1 is sometimes the only step residencies will see depending on how early you apply to residencies and how late you take Step 2. I've heard of people dominating Step 1 and intentionally taking Step 2 late so residencies will only see their first score. I've also heard of people who did poorly or average on Step 1 take Step 2 early in hopes of scoring really high and increasing their chances of getting into more competitive specialties. This is why Step 1 is always talked about and seen as so important, because every residency sees every applicant's Step 1 score while some applicants will not yet have a Step 2 score. Step 3 is actually the most exciting imo because from what I understand you are not considered fully licensed or paid as a physician until you pass Step 3. Once you finish that you start getting paid and additionally can start moonlighting on the side to make extra money. So even after you graduate med school, you still aren't really considered a full on physician by a lot of medical professionals until you complete all your boards.

So Step 2 is kinda like second semester of senior year, except you can take it early if you think it will help. Now I see why people talk about Step 1 so much more!

The reason I want to take the MCAT in the summer was because I'll be able to study way more in the summer than the school year, and then take it with all of that studying fresh in my mind. But are cell bio, genetics, and and human physiology all that important to take? I have AP credit that let's me jump right into those classes from freshman year, but currently I have my schedule set to take Intro Bio 1 and 2 in my 2nd and 3rd semesters since the MCAT 2015 website breaks down their biological science sections like this:

• First-semester biochemistry, 25%
  
  
• Introductory biology, 65%
  
  
• General chemistry, 5%
  
  
• Organic chemistry, 5%
  

So are more advanced bio classes like cell bio, genetics, and human physiology still required? I know I'll be done with math, physics, chem, o chem, and 1st semester biochem by sophomore summer.

 

[Stagg737]

I honestly do not know. I know in the past the physical portion was half physics half gen chem and the bio section was 25% o-chem, and then had large portions of cell bio, human physiology, and genetics with occasional zoology and biochem stuff mixed in. Idk if they are considering cell bio, genetics, and human phys to be part of intro biology now or if they have just completely changed the MCAT. This would be a question to call and ask AMCAS/the MCAT people about directly, since they will be the ones who can tell you exactly what will be on the new tests. The worst thing you could do at this point would be to get wrong advice from someone on here and study the wrong subjects...

 

[helpabrotherout]

I honestly do not know. I know in the past the physical portion was half physics half gen chem and the bio section was 25% o-chem, and then had large portions of cell bio, human physiology, and genetics with occasional zoology and biochem stuff mixed in. Idk if they are considering cell bio, genetics, and human phys to be part of intro biology now or if they have just completely changed the MCAT. This would be a question to call and ask AMCAS/the MCAT people about directly, since they will be the ones who can tell you exactly what will be on the new tests. The worst thing you could do at this point would be to get wrong advice from someone on here and study the wrong subjects...

That's great advice. Thanks man!

 

[Make Or Break]

My only advice for you is to stay motivated all the way through. You still have a while to go until you will take the mcat. As you will come to find out, the majority of people who say they are pre-med early in college end up deciding on a different career path. Just remember your goal is to become a doctor. Do well every single semester. Keep your focus on school, not those parties. You got this!

 

[styphon]

To clarify on step 3. It can be taken anytime during residency. Currently it is a 2 day test, one day being standard case questions, the 2nd day being a computer "case simulator" in which you order tests/procedures and have fake patients. You need step 3 to be license, and to take your specialities boards.

Some residencies (depending on the speciality, and the program itself) allow moonlighting after 1 year of residency + finished step 3 - others don't.

Step 2 is also broken into two parts. A regular computer exam (step 2 CK) and then a standardized pt interview day where you interview fake patients (step 2 CS). The CS portion is pass/fail where as the CK is graded like step 1. Lots of schools require CS/CK to be done before your 4th year of medical school.

 

[Funke]

To clarify on step 3. It can be taken anytime during residency. Currently it is a 2 day test, one day being standard case questions, the 2nd day being a computer "case simulator" in which you order tests/procedures and have fake patients. You need step 3 to be license, and to take your specialities boards.

Some residencies (depending on the speciality, and the program itself) allow moonlighting after 1 year of residency + finished step 3 - others don't.

Step 2 is also broken into two parts. A regular computer exam (step 2 CK) and then a standardized pt interview day where you interview fake patients (step 2 CS). The CS portion is pass/fail where as the CK is graded like step 1. Lots of schools require CS/CK to be done before your 4th year of medical school.

So Step 1 obviously is on the first two years of med school. What is the material like for Step 2 and 3? More based on clinical knowledge?

 

[styphon]

So Step 1 obviously is on the first two years of med school. What is the material like for Step 2 and 3? More based on clinical knowledge?

All of the Step exams are undergoing modification, but when I took them Step I was clinical sciences with lots of questions focusing on pathology/genetics/pharmacology as opposed to direct clinical application.

Step 2 and 3 are more clinical application - the leading info is usually long/multiple paragraphs and the answers are usually a "two step" process, where you must know the middle step - even though you are not asked.

 

[bonedoc82]

Just depends on your speciality you decide to go into or program. If you want to go into pediatrics at a lower tier program then your step 1 wouldnt matter to much. Conversely, if you want to go into pediatrics at CHOP (one of the top peds programs), then your step 1 score is looked at more closely. Other specialites like Surgery or Dermatology require high step 1 scores and some schools (albeit very few) require step 2 scores. Step 3 is taken after graduation from medical school.

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