2 years of general surgery any good?

[SwissMed]

Hi there


I got somewhat of a peculiar question for the more experienced surgeons out there.


I'm a Swiss med student and I fancy working in Australia 2+ years post-graduation. Realizing that I will have to spend years working in remote areas (and I actually like that particular idea tbh), I was wondering if two years of surgical work experience in my own country would be any use as compared to 1 year of internal med and 1 year of surgery?


I'm more of an all-rounder with broad interests (rare these days) and more of a thinker than a doer, but I AM attracted to the idea of performing basic 'rural surgery' in remote areas in Oz while obtaining specialization as a GP/internal med.


I’m also a non-trad student and I will turn 32 by the time I graduate next year. Given that surgical specialization often takes 10 years or longer in my country, it just doesn’t seem that attractive as a career choice in my particular situation.


So to keep things short: 2 years of surgery in my own country a good idea if later I’d like to work as a GP in a rural area of Australia? Or would it be better go apply for positions in internal medicine first and then get the surgical experience later in Australia?


Any input appreciated. Also, I’ll post a link to this thread in the General Surgery section, hope I’m not breaking any rules by doing that

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[Winged Scapula]

Hi there


I got somewhat of a peculiar question for the more experienced surgeons out there.

There are very few, if any, "experienced surgeons" that post in this forum.

I'm a Swiss med student and I fancy working in Australia 2+ years post-graduation. Realizing that I will have to spend years working in remote areas (and I actually like that particular idea tbh), I was wondering if two years of surgical work experience in my own country would be any use as compared to 1 year of internal med and 1 year of surgery?


I'm more of an all-rounder with broad interests (rare these days) and more of a thinker than a doer, but I AM attracted to the idea of performing basic 'rural surgery' in remote areas in Oz while obtaining specialization as a GP/internal med.

I'll let some of those more familiar with practices in Oz answer, but I cannot imagine that 2 years of surgical training would put you anywhere near being allowed to independently perform basic "rural surgery" in Australia. Surgery is specialist training, taken after 2 foundation years and then several specialty training years. Only then can you become a consultant, capable to performing surgery independently.

I’m also a non-trad student and I will turn 32 by the time I graduate next year. Given that surgical specialization often takes 10 years or longer in my country, it just doesn’t seem that attractive as a career choice in my particular situation.


So to keep things short: 2 years of surgery in my own country a good idea if later I’d like to work as a GP in a rural area of Australia? Or would it be better go apply for positions in internal medicine first and then get the surgical experience later in Australia?


Any input appreciated. Also, I’ll post a link to this thread in the General Surgery section, hope I’m not breaking any rules by doing that

You are. Cross-posting is against the TOS.

 

[qldking]

Getting into Australia is going to be near impossible for foreign-trained physicians. You're best staying in your home country.

 

[pitman]

I'm a Swiss med student and I fancy working in Australia 2+ years post-graduation. Realizing that I will have to spend years working in remote areas (and I actually like that particular idea tbh), I was wondering if two years of surgical work experience in my own country would be any use as compared to 1 year of internal med and 1 year of surgery?


I'm more of an all-rounder with broad interests (rare these days) and more of a thinker than a doer, but I AM attracted to the idea of performing basic 'rural surgery' in remote areas in Oz while obtaining specialization as a GP/internal med.

I don't think doing two years of surgery back home will do you any good here. First, it won't help to come here to practice, because what will matter is that you've completed the equivalent of Australian internship and pass the AMC exams. The former requires a term in each of ED, general med, and surgery. If you don't have one or more of those, you would have to do equivalent term(s) here (but this gets tougher each year, as you would be competing with local interns for the spots), along with a year of supervised clinical work as a junior doctor (RMO, or Resident Medical Officer, loosely defined as a junior doctor post-internship but not in any specialty training college).

While there is a pathway in Australia to be a rural generalist proceduralist in surgery, on which GPs or GP trainees do two years of surgery to be qualified to do some basic surgery rurally (e.g., appendicectomy, scopes, pilonidal abscess drainage, washouts and the such), I think it highly unlikely that the RACS (college of surgery) would recognize your two years and allow that to count towards your proceduralist training here. You should of course contact both the RACS and the ACRRM (Aust. College of Rural and Remote Medicine) to verify this, because I wouldn't want to mislead you on what sounds like an excellent goal (I'm a rural generalist currently doing a procedural year in anaesthetics).

I am not as pessimistic as qldking, as Australia hires hundreds of post-internship level IMGs every year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future (it will become more competitive, but IMO it won't become nearly impossible anytime soon). If you are set on coming here, I would recommend that instead of the two years of surgery, make sure you've completed all equivalent Australian internship terms, and maybe do a year of ED (during your supervision year here, you could then be used as an advanced RMO in any number of understaffed EDs, and then after passing the theoretical and clinical AMC exams, you would become fully registered as a doctor, allowing you to, among other things, join a training college).

 

[pitman]

From the 2014 Medical Training Review Panel report:

"In 2012-13 there were 3,090 visas granted to medical practitioners across the two main subclasses – 457 and 442/402...

"In 2012, the Australian Medical Council assessed a total of 1,387 applicants through the Competent Authority Pathway, with 520 applicants being granted Australian Medical Council Certificates, allowing them to apply for general registration. Two-thirds of the Australian Medical Council Certificates granted in 2012 were to international medical graduates from the United Kingdom.

"Under the Standard Pathway 1,656 international medical graduates passed the Multiple Choice Questionnaire (MCQ) examination and 964 passed the Australian Medical Council clinical examinations."

(You would fall under the Standard Pathway)
Note that the number of annual new IMGs has dropped by only 25% since 2008 (see pages 102+ for more stats on IMGs).

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/work-pubs-mtrp-17

 

[qldking]

That's a pretty good deal then. The country's own trained physicians struggle to find the positions they want yet foreign trained physicians can take what appears to be a short cut into the system.