2011-2012 Case Western Reserve University Application Thread

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I got really excited when I read this...It sounds amazing :love::xf:
'Twas an amazing week. I must say. :D

My sub-acute preceptorship was observed at a local rehab hospital call "Kindred Hospital". It is a very nice, new facility and very close to CCF's main campus. Anyway, I had a WWII vet with at least 11 active issues that would have been serious individually. He is medically one of the most complicate patients I have ever examined. Craziness! He was also extremely willing and excited to help teach us. In fact, he volunteered to be intereviewed several times while there and was a very nice and interesting man to interact with.
 
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Victory!
Pirate > Ninja

The more I read about this school, the more it starts to grow on me (even if it is in Cleveland).
Wow, it's only the 4th page, and we've already been topped by an applicant...looks like we might have quite a formidable group this year!
 
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Wow! The 2011-2012 thread is already moving so fast!
I will be joining Case in July ( super excited!)
and wanted to wish everyone good luck:)
 
wow i just got a response from Dr. Franco within 15 minutes of sending her an email; so far i'm really impressed with the level of commitment the admissions committee seems to have. And she said it would probably work out with my timing in Berlin so yay! :)
 
wow i just got a response from Dr. Franco within 15 minutes of sending her an email; so far i'm really impressed with the level of commitment the admissions committee seems to have. And she said it would probably work out with my timing in Berlin so yay! :)

Glad to hear it! :D:luck::xf:
 
^ Ahhhh, finally giving up on this ninja nonsense and joining me on the DARK side, eh? The Emperor will be very pleased! :smuggrin:
 
^ Ahhhh, finally giving up on this ninja nonsense and joining me on the DARK side, eh? The Emperor will be very pleased! :smuggrin:

Jedi is so not even a choice. I'm playing a game of werewolf in the lounge. The avatar change was a requirement.
 
Jedi is so not even a choice. I'm playing a game of werewolf in the lounge. The avatar change was a requirement.

Actually I was thinking more Sith than those goody, goody Jedi, but it's your story, you tell it any way you want!;) I take it you lost? Hey can I play?:oops: I can be there in a few minutes, give or take 4 hours...:(
 
Actually I was thinking more Sith than those goody, goody Jedi, but it's your story, you tell it any way you want!;) I take it you lost? Hey can I play?:oops: I can be there in a few minutes, give or take 4 hours...:(

Ah, I think you misunderstand me. We are playing the The SDN Lounge. There are some slots left on Bespin and plenty of characters left, if you want it.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
wow i just got a response from Dr. Franco within 15 minutes of sending her an email; so far i'm really impressed with the level of commitment the admissions committee seems to have. And she said it would probably work out with my timing in Berlin so yay! :)

Ah! Good! Fyi, interviews to my knowledge will start around beginning of September. I will confirm when the schedule is available

Sent from my Andriod phone using Tapatalk
 
Ah! Good! Fyi, interviews to my knowledge will start around beginning of September. I will confirm when the schedule is available

Sent from my Andriod phone using Tapatalk

Thanks! I wanted to ask you vc7777, is there anything you really don't like about the CCLM program? If you had to pick again, would you definitely stay with CCLM? Also, do you like the more independent learning style/group work approach?

And what's the gunner population like? Coming off a pretty intense major, I don't know if I can deal with a lot of them again. My senior year someone literally gave me incorrect notes from a day I had missed as an attempt to sabatoge me. She's now in medical school, one which I will be avoiding at all costs :laugh:
 
wow i just got a response from Dr. Franco within 15 minutes of sending her an email; so far i'm really impressed with the level of commitment the admissions committee seems to have. And she said it would probably work out with my timing in Berlin so yay! :)


I had a similar experience when I had a question about admission requirements. Every person I talked to on the phone and over email was really enthusiastic and helpful. I wish more schools realized how big of an impact simple things like this can have on an applicants decisions down the road. I've dealt with some really grumpy people in admission offices and it really turns me off from their schools.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
 
Don't do it. We're working on rolling out SDN mobile soon.

Sweet! I was wondering if there would be an app out soon. You just saved me $2.50, I should get you something from the West Side Market :)
 
Sweet! I was wondering if there would be an app out soon. You just saved me $2.50, I should get you something from the West Side Market :)

The android app is out in the wild for $0.99 but is still a bit bug-laden.
 
The android app is out in the wild for $0.99 but is still a bit bug-laden.

The Android app hates my guts. It'll never log me in and I get these perpetual loading screens. When it works it's great and much better than squinting at tiny text on the SDN website. I have tapatalk for ipad too, and it works much better with the iOS.
 
Thanks! I wanted to ask you vc7777, is there anything you really don't like about the CCLM program?

I have thought much about this. In a nutshell: no

This is not to say I don't think improvements can be made or that it is ideal. I have worked for many years and I do not expect perfection from my medical school. Every school has issues.

The bright side is that CCLCM really does take the time to ensure that you (as an applicant) would fit into our culture. We do not overaccept applicants, and so when you are "chosen" it is because we feel you personally can succeed in our learning environment and will have a productive time at our school.

Having said that, I usually tell applicants on interview day that we are very small, and that we are like a tight family. That has both strengths and Targeted Areas For Improvements (we don't say "weakness" at CCLCM, we say TAFIs [pronunced 'taffy'] :p)


If you had to pick again, would you definitely stay with CCLM?
Friday is the end of our first year here (the UP students are all technically 2nd years, and have left a while ago! :(). So I have been doing a lot of reflective practice and thinking back about the year.

No, I would not go anywhere else. I should point out that many of my classmates and I had full-tuition scholarships elsewhere at more traditional programs. So this isn't about the money. This is about the opportunity to have a challenging and intimate medical school experience.

About a month ago I had to finish my portfolio for promotion to the second year (we pick up our promotion letters, which I understand are not form letters, but personally written by members of the promotion committee in response to our portfolios). Literally, as I was finishing the final draft, I said to myself: "As stressful as this process may have been, I would still choose it over grades, exams, and rankings ANY day". I promised myself to remember this.

Just today, my PBL facilitator reminded us that we should choose what we want to learn this week. Since we feel we have covered most of the material already, we are choosing to go into more esoteric (and I think interesting) subjects for our group discussions. That is, we direct our studying based on our own interests and self-assessments of our gaps in knowledge and not on what the course director necessarily thinks we should be studying. If we feel we understand the material, then we can study other stuff instead. How cool is that? This program lets you tailor your own experience.

Another hallmark of our curriculum is that we give LOTS of feedback and actually affect the development of the courses. Sometimes these changes are made on-the-fly even. They are very responsive to our thought and ideas.

Both of these features of our curriculum allow us to take ownership of our own education.

Also, do you like the more independent learning style/group work approach?
Yes, see above. Small group and personal independence means you work on things that you (or the group) know you might be having trouble with.

In PBL this week, for example, we noticed that our case involved a patient with renal (kidney) failure. Even though it has been many months since we had our renal block, we as a small group agreed it was an opportunity to review some of the material. So, we had a group review today.

Another example, in Longitudinal Clinic I was having trouble with neurological examinations, so I asked my preceptor if I could perform them more often. Boom. Done.

It is very liberating to not have to be enslaved to an exam schedule or course syllabus. At the same time, if you are a person who sleeps well knowing you scored a 95% on the midterm, and you live for the affirmation that ranks and grades provide - this is probably not for you. I tell people...it is similar to dogs. If you were a dog who has been fenced in your whole life and suddenly put into an open field, how would you react?

And what's the gunner population like? Coming off a pretty intense major, I don't know if I can deal with a lot of them again. My senior year someone literally gave me incorrect notes from a day I had missed as an attempt to sabatoge me. She's now in medical school, one which I will be avoiding at all costs :laugh:
First, I am sorry to hear about your gunner classmate. :(
For those who do not know the term - "Gunner" is someone who intentionally makes others look bad for their own personal gain. This is different than being competitive. Fair competition is probably what has pushed many students to be top of their class. I would lump in "sore losers" with gunners too. These are people who do not react well to losing, and as such I think is on the mild end of the Gunner Spectrum of Medical Student Disorders (Which I am proposing for DSM-5).

CCLCM is like the "Canada" of American medical schools. (Canada, of course is like America without the guns.) This is to say, it is hard to be a gunner in a land without guns. We have no grades, class rankings, or even exams. It doesn't get any less "gunner friendly" than that. I would like to think that potential gunners are not admitted. But more importantly, even if someone who exhibited gunner-like symptoms as an undergrad attended, they would have a difficult time "gunning" here. :)

But seriously, if I find an article that is interesting or germane to answering an essay question at the end of the week - I share it with the whole class. This literally happens almost every week. There is no penalty for working together to answer essay questions, and you can't really get ahead by making someone else look bad here. So why not help each other out? Furthermore, I enjoy it when a classmate knows a lot about a subject, and then share his insights with us. Being a gunner here doesn't make sense.

Phew. Sorry for being long-winded.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful writeup. Just one question: who do I need to give a kidney to for a chance to interview here again?

I only accept kidneys in pairs. Think of it as a way of showing your willingness to make sacrifices when needed.
 
Stumbled here to see what the 4 pages of fuss was about and now, 4 pages later, feeling converted. You all should get paid, I wonder how many SDN converts you've claimed.
 
I have thought much about this. In a nutshell: no

This is not to say I don't think improvements can be made or that it is ideal. I have worked for many years and I do not expect perfection from my medical school. Every school has issues.

The bright side is that CCLCM really does take the time to ensure that you (as an applicant) would fit into our culture. We do not overaccept applicants, and so when you are "chosen" it is because we feel you personally can succeed in our learning environment and will have a productive time at our school.

Having said that, I usually tell applicants on interview day that we are very small, and that we are like a tight family. That has both strengths and Targeted Areas For Improvements (we don't say "weakness" at CCLCM, we say TAFIs [pronunced 'taffy'] :p)


Friday is the end of our first year here (the UP students are all technically 2nd years, and have left a while ago! :(). So I have been doing a lot of reflective practice and thinking back about the year.

No, I would not go anywhere else. I should point out that many of my classmates and I had full-tuition scholarships elsewhere at more traditional programs. So this isn't about the money. This is about the opportunity to have a challenging and intimate medical school experience.

About a month ago I had to finish my portfolio for promotion to the second year (we pick up our promotion letters, which I understand are not form letters, but personally written by members of the promotion committee in response to our portfolios). Literally, as I was finishing the final draft, I said to myself: "As stressful as this process may have been, I would still choose it over grades, exams, and rankings ANY day". I promised myself to remember this.

Just today, my PBL facilitator reminded us that we should choose what we want to learn this week. Since we feel we have covered most of the material already, we are choosing to go into more esoteric (and I think interesting) subjects for our group discussions. That is, we direct our studying based on our own interests and self-assessments of our gaps in knowledge and not on what the course director necessarily thinks we should be studying. If we feel we understand the material, then we can study other stuff instead. How cool is that? This program lets you tailor your own experience.

Another hallmark of our curriculum is that we give LOTS of feedback and actually affect the development of the courses. Sometimes these changes are made on-the-fly even. They are very responsive to our thought and ideas.

Both of these features of our curriculum allow us to take ownership of our own education.

Yes, see above. Small group and personal independence means you work on things that you (or the group) know you might be having trouble with.

In PBL this week, for example, we noticed that our case involved a patient with renal (kidney) failure. Even though it has been many months since we had our renal block, we as a small group agreed it was an opportunity to review some of the material. So, we had a group review today.

Another example, in Longitudinal Clinic I was having trouble with neurological examinations, so I asked my preceptor if I could perform them more often. Boom. Done.

It is very liberating to not have to be enslaved to an exam schedule or course syllabus. At the same time, if you are a person who sleeps well knowing you scored a 95% on the midterm, and you live for the affirmation that ranks and grades provide - this is probably not for you. I tell people...it is similar to dogs. If you were a dog who has been fenced in your whole life and suddenly put into an open field, how would you react?

First, I am sorry to hear about your gunner classmate. :(
For those who do not know the term - "Gunner" is someone who intentionally makes others look bad for their own personal gain. This is different than being competitive. Fair competition is probably what has pushed many students to be top of their class. I would lump in "sore losers" with gunners too. These are people who do not react well to losing, and as such I think is on the mild end of the Gunner Spectrum of Medical Student Disorders (Which I am proposing for DSM-5).

CCLCM is like the "Canada" of American medical schools. (Canada, of course is like America without the guns.) This is to say, it is hard to be a gunner in a land without guns. We have no grades, class rankings, or even exams. It doesn't get any less "gunner friendly" than that. I would like to think that potential gunners are not admitted. But more importantly, even if someone who exhibited gunner-like symptoms as an undergrad attended, they would have a difficult time "gunning" here. :)

But seriously, if I find an article that is interesting or germane to answering an essay question at the end of the week - I share it with the whole class. This literally happens almost every week. There is no penalty for working together to answer essay questions, and you can't really get ahead by making someone else look bad here. So why not help each other out? Furthermore, I enjoy it when a classmate knows a lot about a subject, and then share his insights with us. Being a gunner here doesn't make sense.

Phew. Sorry for being long-winded.
This ^^....was amazing, a pleasure to read! CCLCM chose well and is very lucky to have you! Well done!!:)
 
Stumbled here to see what the 4 pages of fuss was about and now, 4 pages later, feeling converted. You all should get paid, I wonder how many SDN converts you've claimed.

Apparently, Myuu accepts matched sets of kindeys as payment. ;)

Thanks Namer - some people get upset that we don't take all of this more seriously. Yeah we post a lot - but we answer questions all the time. We play hard, but we work harder.

BTW, I know you've expressed interest in the past year or so in a non-PhD research career. I hope you apply.

Good luck.

Sent from my Andriod phone using Tapatalk
 
Apparently, Myuu accepts matched sets of kindeys as payment. ;)

Thanks Namer - some people get upset that we don't take all of this more seriously. Yeah we post a lot - but we answer questions all the time. We play hard, but we work harder.

BTW, I know you've expressed interest in the past year or so in a non-PhD research career. I hope you apply.

Good luck.

Sent from my Andriod phone using Tapatalk

Great memory :thumbup: I certainly did. I had some reservations about whether it was a good way to go but I'm feeling very encouraged about CCLCM.
 
Yeah...gender confusion is easy to instill in others on SDN. :p
Well, it doesn't help that you are deliberately instilling it! :laugh:

Has there been Canadians/other international folks at CCLCM? Just curious.
Yes. My class had three Canadians and three people from other countries (Japan, Ghana, and India).

Myuu: Do you know if grad students (PhD candidates) interact with MD/PhD candidates (from UP and/or CP) in same lab? In other words, when you go through research courses for PhD portion of MD/PhD, are you with MD/PhD folks or anyone who's doing work for PhD (so MD/PhD + PhD +/- postdocs etc..)?
MSTP students can definitely work in the same labs as CCLCM or PhD students, and several of them have. I don't know for sure whether MSTPs and PhD students take classes together, but it would make sense that they do if they're getting their PhDs in the same field.

Pacific East is nearby in Coventry and has great sushi (from what I've heard, I've only had their vegetarian rolls and that's not saying much). Also, Sushi Rock is another popular one, its a little farther out though
I liked Pacific East's sushi. Sushi Rock wasn't bad either. I didn't think it was worth the drive though.

I grew up on a coast too, so I have the same bias, but I wonder how Great Lakes fish sashimi would taste. I guess most of the traditional sashimi fish are saltwater fish, but there are salmon in the Lakes too so.....
I recommend eating nothing that comes out of Lake Erie.

Victory!
Pirate > Ninja
Strong work. :thumbup:

Thanks! I wanted to ask you vc7777, is there anything you really don't like about the CCLM program?
Since vc likes to answer my questions, I'm going to answer his. :smuggrin:

I just graduated from CCLCM last month. Over the entire five years, I can't think of anything major that I didn't like about the program. Of course, there are always minor nuisances and annoyances, but you will have that no matter where you go to school. For example, it got to be a pain sometimes having to do certain things twice, once for CCLCM and once for Case. I don't like filling out paperwork. Also, I don't think that the research year oversight was as good as it could be, although they are working on improving that. I had a couple of negative experiences on the wards with attendings or residents who didn't "get" how our system is supposed to work. Again, however, the administration was very responsive when I reported these problems.

In fact, administration responsiveness is one of the greatest strengths of the program. My experience was that student concerns are taken seriously, and if you have a specific suggestion for how to improve something, they will hear you out. There are always going to be things that need improvement, and students are given a lot of input on how to do that. For example, my class complained about not having enough time on the neuromusculoskeletal block and too much time on cardiopulm. Future classes, including vc's class, had one more week of NMS and one week less of cards. As another example, our pharm seminars are taught by pharmacists. Most of them are great, but there was one in particular who just didn't get the whole "interactive" concept. He would read to us verbatim from his powerpoints, and it was a painful two hours. We complained about him too, and now he doesn't teach the med students anymore. I could give lots of other examples like this.

If I had to pick one thing I really didn't like about Cleveland in general, it would be the winter weather. I had never been to Ohio before going there to interview for Case/CCLCM, and while I learned to tolerate the winters, I didn't ever learn to like them. If you're coming from somewhere like CA, your first winter in Cleveland will be a bit of a shock to you. But you learn how to cope with it, from buying the right clothes to learning to drive in snow. As far as the city itself goes, I think that Cleveland gets a much worse rap than it deserves. I enjoyed living there much more than I expected. You will have to make more effort to seek out things to do compared to the big coastal cities, but there ARE fun things to do if you make that effort. People have already been talking about the West Side Market, which really is awesome. There is also a really nice system of metroparks for people who like outdoorsy stuff. The botanical gardens are very nice too (not in the winter, obviously!), and the symphony is world class. I went to several concerts and operas while I was there.

If you had to pick again, would you definitely stay with CCLM?
Yes, definitely, for the reasons I gave above, and also because of the family atmosphere of the school like vc described.

Also, do you like the more independent learning style/group work approach?
Yes, I loved it. But I would caution you that this kind of program is not a good fit for everyone, and you really need to think about how internally versus externally motivated you are to study. Like vc said, if you need tests and grades to motivate you, this program won't be a good fit. If you don't like coming to class every day and participating, this program won't be a good fit. If you're not comfortable with some ambiguity in terms of figuring out what to learn during the week, this program won't be a good fit. They do tell you what you were supposed to have covered that week on Friday after the last PBL session. But you won't be handed a packet of notes and told to go memorize this because this is what's on the test at the end of the block. Part of the whole point of the program is for you to learn how to be an independent learner.

And what's the gunner population like? Coming off a pretty intense major, I don't know if I can deal with a lot of them again. My senior year someone literally gave me incorrect notes from a day I had missed as an attempt to sabatoge me. She's now in medical school, one which I will be avoiding at all costs :laugh:
I agree with vc completely about his gunner comments. There is no positive reinforcement for being a gunner, and there is plenty of negative reinforcement to discourage people from being gunners even if they wanted to be. For example, the students in each small group evaluate one another approximately once per month throughout the first and second years. If someone tried to pull a stunt like the girl you described, that person would be getting seven evals from their classmates with a TAFI of "don't stab the rest of us in the back from now on". I can't even imagine having to explain that to your physician adviser and the Promotions Committee. :p

Overall, CCLCM is as low stress and fun as medical school can possibly be. I mean, there are no tests, no grades, and no tuition. I honestly can't think of a way that the program could be made less competitive or less stressful while still being a medical school. Also, the faculty and administration are very dedicated to the school, and they will do whatever they can to ensure our success. This dedication goes up to the very top. Dr. Cosgrove, the CEO of CCF, even offered my entire class jobs if we want to come back to CCF after we finish residency. He sent each of us an email with this offer right after we graduated. That's a perfect example of the kind of supportive atmosphere that we have there.

I had a similar experience when I had a question about admission requirements. Every person I talked to on the phone and over email was really enthusiastic and helpful. I wish more schools realized how big of an impact simple things like this can have on an applicants decisions down the road. I've dealt with some really grumpy people in admission offices and it really turns me off from their schools.
The admissions people really are super friendly. Be good to them and they will be good to you. :)

Thanks for the thoughtful writeup. Just one question: who do I need to give a kidney to for a chance to interview here again?
I suggest donating part of your liver instead. CCF has a large liver transplant program, and I'm sure they would be able to use it. Donating a part of your liver has the added advantage that it will grow back over time. This does not occur with kidneys, especially if you give up two of them! Finally, donating your liver will provide for a good educational experience for the current CCLCM students, who will be able to scrub in for the surgery, as well as take care of the liver recipient in the SICU. It's win-win all around.
 
Cool!

Well, best of luck, Namer.



Myuu...
<picture of pho>

We are making a pho run tonight at 6:30. Fluffyrabbit and I and maybe other CCLCM folks are going Superior.

I'm in.
 
OMG that looks amazing, vc....when school's back in session, let's totally hit it up, k? I'll be in Peru for a few weeks (Lamay Clinic Project 4tw)! See you on the flip side, pps.

BTW, vc7^4, I get to see SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE STARS and omg I am STOKED!!
 
A weather-related question:

How long does winter last up there in Ohio? I'm from the South, so my annual exposure to winter conditions is usually limited to one week in January.
 
I had a similar experience when I had a question about admission requirements. Every person I talked to on the phone and over email was really enthusiastic and helpful. I wish more schools realized how big of an impact simple things like this can have on an applicants decisions down the road. I've dealt with some really grumpy people in admission offices and it really turns me off from their schools.
Stumbled here to see what the 4 pages of fuss was about and now, 4 pages later, feeling converted. You all should get paid, I wonder how many SDN converts you've claimed.
This is what our class is like. We Case SDNers are pretty representative of our class - our nerdiness is potentially a little on the high side of average:laugh:, but friendliness and helpfulness is pretty pervasive. Case creates a very community-oriented atmosphere. It's exactly why I chose Case, and EXACTLY why I couldn't be happier with my choice, now that I've been here a year.
 
And what's the gunner population like? Coming off a pretty intense major, I don't know if I can deal with a lot of them again. My senior year someone literally gave me incorrect notes from a day I had missed as an attempt to sabatoge me. She's now in medical school, one which I will be avoiding at all costs :laugh:
In the UP side, this is also a non-issue, at least in pre-clinical years (1 and 2) - I can't speak for 3 or 4, but CCLCMer and others can.

My friends are the best - we study together as well as hang out. I've learned so much from how they study, and they encourage me to keep stepping up my game.

But not just friends - the whole class is created around a PBL small group model. It only works because of this cooperativeness. But it goes beyond that - I can't even read half of the reviews that our classmates send out during the block and before exams. Everyone helps everyone.

For example, I was in a study group that each week did mini powerpoint (5 slides or so) summary reviews of each lecture and IQ case. It was priceless to review all along, and we compiled them towards the end of the block and gave it out to everyone to study for block exams. They'll kick ass for boards too.

Again, this is why I couldn't be anywhere else than here.
 
A weather-related question:

How long does winter last up there in Ohio? I'm from the South, so my annual exposure to winter conditions is usually limited to one week in January.

I've never lived in Cleveland, but my fiancee was there for 2 years and we currently live in Ann Arbor (same kinds of weather but less volatile because AA is farther away from the lake).

It is cold. A lot, if you're used to Southern weather. I would say winter kicks in around October, and hang out until late April/early May. We had about 2 inches of snow in the last (?) week of April here. Lake Erie will also make things really windy, rainy/snowy and unpredictable.

The flip side is there aren't ridiculously hot summers. Also this picture my fiancee took of the lake:
3330224508_31948334e3_z.jpg
 
It is cold. A lot, if you're used to Southern weather. I would say winter kicks in around October, and hang out until late April/early May. We had about 2 inches of snow in the last (?) week of April here. Lake Erie will also make things really windy, rainy/snowy and unpredictable.

The flip side is there aren't ridiculously hot summers. Also this picture my fiancee took of the lake:

Ah, but I've actually learned to tolerate the ridiculously hot summers. Perhaps if I have the good luck of going to Case for four years, I'll develop a tolerance for the cold as well ... making me some type of superweatherhuman.
 
Ah, but I've actually learned to tolerate the ridiculously hot summers. Perhaps if I have the good luck of going to Case for four years, I'll develop a tolerance for the cold as well ... making me some type of superweatherhuman.

:laugh::thumbup:

At Case, they're pretty good about shoveling everything so us undergrads don't have to suffer by walking in the deep snow. There's awful days, just like any northern state. We do get a lot of snow, and it is pretty cold, but as a med student you wouldnt have to walk through it haha. I would say it gets cold in October and starts warming up in April, with a few nice days scattered in between.
 
*waited patiently for an hour and a half so she wouldn't have to post-pad, but gave up*
 
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