2011-2012 Interview Gossip/Chit-Chat

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Question- do programs ever not invite you because they think you're unlikely to attend because you're too strong of an applicant?

I've gotten rejections from some of the programs that have sent out invites and this is what my advisor is telling me... I don't believe it though especially since this kind of thing sounds like your mother telling you that "they're just jealous...". It also seems like every single applicant in this specialty is strong. In any case I'm currently in freak-out mode so any thoughts would be great

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Question- do programs ever not invite you because they think you're unlikely to attend because you're too strong of an applicant?

I've gotten rejections from some of the programs that have sent out invites and this is what my advisor is telling me... I don't believe it though especially since this kind of thing sounds like your mother telling you that "they're just jealous...". It also seems like every single applicant in this specialty is strong. In any case I'm currently in freak-out mode so any thoughts would be great

I think a lot of people right now have 2 rejections (Case and Georgetown) and maybe 1-3 interviews. Don't start freak out mode until Nov. 8 :D

Damn it, just saw the Cinci invite on the invite thread.
 
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I think a lot of people right now have 2 rejections (Case and Georgetown) and maybe 1-3 interviews. Don't start freak out mode until Nov. 8 :D

Damn it, just saw the Cinci invite on the invite thread.


I got none!!:thumbup:
 
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I don't understand why the MSPE is so important. At least for me it doesn't add much if anything.

I guess each school's MSPE is different, but mine had a lot of good information including:

1. Specific comments by faculty/residents regarding my performance on various clinical rotations (both core and elective)
2. My Dean's commentary on the relative strengths & weakness of my application on the whole
3. Percentile rankings to show where I fell among my peers in basic science coursework and the clinical years

Also, I had a great relationship with my Dean and was able to convince him to "omit" the one or two egregiously negative comments from my clinical evals.
 
Although this may not be as pertinent to this year, did you guys notice all the new ACGME accredited rad onc programs that are in the pipeline? Check out the ACGME Public website (just google it) and you can browse the accredited programs by state - some were accredited pretty darn recently.
 
9 out of 10 chance the above user is a nervous applicant trying to thin out the competition

Even if the reimbursement goes off the deep-end the fundamental structure of Rad Onc practice (e.g. good hours & lifestyle) won't change. And malignant programs? Please. This is Rad Onc not surgery.
 
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yall, make sure you really want to go into this field. it sounds good but it is not a lifestyle specialty by any means, and there are some damn malignant programs out there; find out which those are, avoid them like the plague. even more important the future looks pretty dim for the field.

Wow, this is really random. Why did you choose to come share?
 
I'm here so people don't make the mistake i made. talk to people and find out what the malignant programs are, you don't want to be there it is not worth it. People at those programs are not happy; experience speaking here.

Oh and we're so smug about good lifestyle? Wait till we have to start treating till 12 or on the weekends. Its more real And starting to happen at many places. And once our prostate pools dry up bc of reimbursement structure things will be great. People also dint realize they will have to live in bumble f locations for this great lifestyle.

Anyway look this is the wrong forum or list for this but i say it so you ask the relevant questions where you are interviewing so you can evaluate if a program has already become like this and if that is what you want.

:troll:
 
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I will agree with xrt1102 somewhat so that people don't completely discount what that poster is saying. I rotated at two programs that seemed pretty malignant. There were policies, attendings, and administration that came down hard on their resdents. At least 60 hours a week was the norm, and 80 hours a week was common many months. At one program residents couldn't even take their vacation weeks or go to ASTRO until their last year because they were always expected in clinic. At that program and at another program residents were working Saturdays some months. I asked a PGY-3 where I should go out on a Friday night in that new-for-me city and the response was "I wouldn't know, I've never had a Friday night free."

Residents at those programs were often very unhappy, and I could see one of them posting something like this. At one such program, multiple rad onc residents were asking their prelim med programs if they could go back to IM.

The funny thing is that some big name academic programs preach to their residents that they should not go into private practice because "the private practice world is going to die. Reimbursements are going to be cut. You will wish you were still in academics!" In other words, "I know you're miserable now, but you should really stay here because it's going to be terrible out there." Every year it's another disaster that's due to happen right now. It's essentially a marketing tool to try to convince their residents to stay in academics, and for some residents I think the mentality that the field is sinking soaks into their brains.

I'm not going to tell anyone where these places were. But I will say both of these programs are frequently listed on your "top 10" best programs. Unfortunately, at the one program, the PGY-3s and PGY-4s seemed "hoodwinked". The volume at the program and number of attendings had rapidly expanded, outpacing the number of residents and support staff, stretching them extremely thin. The residents had to pick up all the extra patients and scut involved with it (making appointments, getting outside records, putting together charts, etc...). Thus, I tried to avoid any program with "100% attending coverage". This means the residents have to see every patient before the attending, and are typically responsible for every single note written. At one program, they were planning rapid growth and the chief told me that he was trying to fight against 100% attending coverage, but that it was probably coming soon. I ranked that program quite low. As usual, make your rank lists wisely.

I didn't really take issue with that part of the post, as it seems to state the obvious. It I my understanding that every field has training programs that are "malignant." However, telling people that Radiation Oncology is a bad field and that the future is bleak seems dramatic at best and trollish at worst.
 
I'll put money on it that Upenn is one of those.. NYU may be the other one?
 
The doom and gloom comments above aside, I am really hoping to enter into this field. I am trying not to be discouraged but I am starting to worry about my application. A decent number of programs I've applied to have at least started offering interviews and I am still waiting for my first. I have good grades, top quartile Step 1 score, a PhD in cancer research, away elective honors at a top 10 program and one big name letter. My prelim interviews aren't really coming in either and so I'm beginning to worry there is some deficiency in my application I have over looked. I realize the vast majority of interviews are still coming, but the window to do anything is rapidly closing. Either I need to be talked down off the ledge or there is some concrete actions I can take. Advice on one or both would be appreciated.
 
Hey Docsqd, I feel your pain.. I'm in the same boat.. good Step 1 score, first author pub, big name letter..

What makes this all so much more frustrating is that a friend of mine in a similar school (both of ours are non-top 50).. has gotten 4 interviews. He has a lower step 1 score (although only 4 pts less), no pubs (one abstract presentation), and no big name letters (did one away at a small program). The one thing he has better then me is that he has better grades through med school.. neither of us are AOA but he has a couple more honors then I do. I'm honestly baffled at how he has 4 interviews and I have 0 when I seem to have the formula down... Good Step 1 + Research + LOR + Good Grades.

:confused:
 
It could also be that your applications are in the category competitive for higher tier schools that wait until after Nov 1st to offer interviews. The ones that have offered interviews so far are mid-lower tier and may not necessarily consider applicants that they think are beyond their reach.
 
It could also be that your applications are in the category competitive for higher tier schools that wait until after Nov 1st to offer interviews. The ones that have offered interviews so far are mid-lower tier and may not necessarily consider applicants that they think are beyond their reach.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! :)
 
I will agree with xrt1102 somewhat so that people don't completely discount what that poster is saying. I rotated at two programs that seemed pretty malignant. There were policies, attendings, and administration that came down hard on their resdents. At least 60 hours a week was the norm, and 80 hours a week was common many months.


In my four years of rad onc residency I've approached 80 hours once, I was on call and got slammed. When I was an intern I hit 80 hours every week. I highly doubt there is any rad onc program that routinely works 80 hours.

60 hours sounds like a resonable (slightly high) estimate. Most other specialties would kill for a 60 hour work week and free weekends.

No one will force you to go into academics. In fact academic jobs are highly competitive. Even the best of the best programs have several residents go into private practice.
 
I know I deserve the worlds tiniest violin, but being from a lesser known school and having family influenced geographic restrictions has me worried I have made a strategic error. I hope everyone who is sweating it out finds a good distraction and ends up somewhere they can be happy. Goodluck folks, thanks for listening.
 
The doom and gloom comments above aside, I am really hoping to enter into this field. I am trying not to be discouraged but I am starting to worry about my application. A decent number of programs I've applied to have at least started offering interviews and I am still waiting for my first. I have good grades, top quartile Step 1 score, a PhD in cancer research, away elective honors at a top 10 program and one big name letter. My prelim interviews aren't really coming in either and so I'm beginning to worry there is some deficiency in my application I have over looked. I realize the vast majority of interviews are still coming, but the window to do anything is rapidly closing. Either I need to be talked down off the ledge or there is some concrete actions I can take. Advice on one or both would be appreciated.

I am a mid-bottom tier candidate and I have 3 so far. That is because the schools that have given interviews are mid-bottom tier. You sound like an excellent candidate due to the PhD and cancer pubs plus high step 1. You will get interviews when the big boys send invites.
 
Just like in any field, you'll have your malignant and benign programs - talk to the residents and get a feel for the program's personality. I think we know which program 'Nukem is talking about (seriously, talk to the residents at these programs). After interviews were over a fellow applicant and I sat down and we talked about which places we felt were the best fit for us - and we both ended up at those programs!

As for getting interviews - if you were a super strong candidate from a lower tier school I think you have some of the best chances of getting interviews across the different tiers. If you're a strong candidate from a top tier school, you may be seen as "not as high yield" an applicant for an interview at some of the lower tiers. This was the prevailing attitude in my interview friends circle last year. In any event, just wait. November is coming up and many more programs, especially upper tiers will begin to give out interviews - and then see.
 
I highly doubt there is any rad onc program that routinely works 80 hours.

There is one NYC program that practically brags about often working close to 80 hours a week.

No one will force you to go into academics. In fact academic jobs are highly competitive. Even the best of the best programs have several residents go into private practice.

There's certainly a component of personal choice. Not everyone is looking for an academic position. Further, some thinking about academics will not be willing to accept one of the academic positions available in a given year.
 
Damn it, Henry Ford rejection. I was hoping for that one.
 
Same they fooled me into thinking I got an invite.. I should've known better. I can only laugh haha
 
ditched me too! You know, I have gotten rad onc 4 invites so far - but all from the very bottom of my list, from programs to which I applied out of some sort of superstition, but where I probably don't want to go... In retrospect, I should not have applied there! I think I'd rather not match than match at a place where I won't do any research, won't get to go to conferences and probably won't see interesting cases...
 
I would suggest cancelling those interviews so that others who want to interview at those places have an opportunity to do so.

ditched me too! You know, I have gotten rad onc 4 invites so far - but all from the very bottom of my list, from programs to which I applied out of some sort of superstition, but where I probably don't want to go... In retrospect, I should not have applied there! I think I'd rather not match than match at a place where I won't do any research, won't get to go to conferences and probably won't see interesting cases...
 
So given that I submitted my app kinda late, I am not freaking out just yet about the lack in interviews, but I am freaking out about my application not even being downloaded yet! Is this normal?

I verified that all the programs I have applied to are still taking apps/reviewing, even spoke with some PD's. Why are they not downloading my app?
 
Hmm I didn't even know that you could check if they are downloading your application. I would think you're ok since it seems like a lot of places still haven't sent invites. Not sure if ppl send out invites on a rolling basis? Maybe one of our esteemed residents can chime in.
 
I'm getting super nervous. I talked to a few guys at a TY interview today, they both had so many interviews. I have 2 lined up, but from what I hear both programs have >2 in house applicants applying. Every where I go, I hear, "there are a lot more people applying from school than usual."

I'm wondering how the in-house applicants will effect the rank lists.
 
At least you have 2 lined up! I find myself checking my e-mail every 15 minutes praying for an interview so that all this hard work hasn't been a complete waste. I feel like this year is gonna be brutal.

Last year only 13 programs had sent out interviews to this date this year 20 already have.
 
I am couples matching with my spouse and am wondering when/if it is appropriate to ask a program which I have an interview at to suggest to the other specialty to possibly interview my spouse? It seems like the best time would be as soon as you received an interview. I do not want to sound pushy, but if feel like they will not be aware if I do not tell them, despite it being in our application. Is there any cross-talk between specialties? Thanks
 
At least you have 2 lined up! I find myself checking my e-mail every 15 minutes praying for an interview so that all this hard work hasn't been a complete waste. I feel like this year is gonna be brutal.

Last year only 13 programs had sent out interviews to this date this year 20 already have.

I know its crazy that we are already +7. I have a feeling the week of Nov 1st is gonna be nuts.

Hopefully we both find ourselves in a good position this fall :luck:
 
I know its crazy that we are already +7. I have a feeling the week of Nov 1st is gonna be nuts.

Hopefully we both find ourselves in a good position this fall :luck:

Not that I am terribly knowledgeable about exact figures, but I actually think there are less applicants this year than previous years. I have spoken with PDs and they talked of about 150ish applications, vs around 190ish last year. There are also a number of new programs as well, so who knows.
 
I am couples matching with my spouse and am wondering when/if it is appropriate to ask a program which I have an interview at to suggest to the other specialty to possibly interview my spouse? It seems like the best time would be as soon as you received an interview. I do not want to sound pushy, but if feel like they will not be aware if I do not tell them, despite it being in our application. Is there any cross-talk between specialties? Thanks

I highly doubt that the program at which you are interviewing will talk to another specialty on behalf of your spouse! please correct me if I am wrong.
I have heard, however, that it is quite acceptable for your spouse to call his/her chosen department at the school/hospital in question, and ask to kindly give a second look at his application given that you have received an invitation.
 
I highly doubt that the program at which you are interviewing will talk to another specialty on behalf of your spouse! please correct me if I am wrong.

I personally know a resident who was not particularly competitive for Rad Onc but had a spouse who was extremely competitive (and sought after) applying to another specialty. They couples matched and the resident I know matched mainly because the spouse's department called Rad Onc and pressured them into ranking him highly.

This is probably exceptional, but it does happen.

Otherwise, I agree with your advice that the spouse should initiate contact with Rad Onc if need be.
 
I personally know a resident who was not particularly competitive for Rad Onc but had a spouse who was extremely competitive (and sought after) applying to another specialty. They couples matched and the resident I know matched mainly because the spouse's department called Rad Onc and pressured them into ranking him highly.

This is probably exceptional, but it does happen.

Otherwise, I agree with your advice that the spouse should initiate contact with Rad Onc if need be.

I would imagine that if a program really wanted a certain resident and that resident came with some sort of baggage, they'd take the "baggage" to get the resident. Similar thing happened to me/my husband, too bad it was in the wrong specialty/field!

Btw-anyone think people are still applying or have most people who are going to apply done so already?
 
Can anyone tell me what time the interview day ends at Henry Ford? I need to buy a plane ticket but haven't been able to find out how late I need to stay. I plan to do the combined interview day with the transitional year program.
 
Echoing what others have said, just because you don't get an invite when it is first announced on this thread doesn' t mean you are not going to receive one. My first invite came yesterday after it was first posted on the board at the beginning of the week. Each program seems to have its own schedule and way of doing things. Good luck and hang in there.
 
Echoing what others have said, just because you don't get an invite when it is first announced on this thread doesn' t mean you are not going to receive one. My first invite came yesterday after it was first posted on the board at the beginning of the week. Each program seems to have its own schedule and way of doing things. Good luck and hang in there.

Great point. A lot of programs (mine included) send out interviews in waves (e.g. go through x # of applications, send out y # interview invitations, etc.), so don't be discouraged if you don't get an invitation to interview at a particular program after the date has been posted on this site. It is possible that they just haven't looked at your application or sent out all of the invites yet. :thumbup:
 
So I got a rejection from a program that had an open spot that I applied to since I've already done my internship. :( I know that in a field like this one rejections are common but I'm concerned that since I'm not a typical applicant, I won't match. I did not initially plan to do rac onc, and sort of stumbled into this specialty due to serious personal circumstances, and rotated in it and loved it. Obviously I don't have research or big wig letters in this specialty. Am I dead in the water? Is there anything that I can do to improve my chances? Is there any real possibility that I could match simply given an interest and real desire to enter the field?
 
Just curious, but do people send dept of medicine letters to rad onc programs? I did and I think the dept chair addressed the letter as if I were applying into an IM prelim years (too bad we don't get to glance over letters before hand). Does anyone feel like this could be a problem. May just be me being neurotic...
 
Nothing left to do now but wait.......
 
Nothing left to do now but wait.......

I was expecting to wake up to at least 25-30 invites this morning:laugh:. Instead all I got was a TY rejection. C'est la vie!
 
me too! i guess you actually have to wait for them to read it...
 
I did not use non-rad-onc LOR for my rad onc applications (with the exception of Penn, which requires an IM LOR). That being said, I remember the Dean of Students at my school mentioning at some point that sometimes LOR writers don't "tailor" the LORs to the specialty in which you are applying, and will simply focus on how stellar ;) your performance was in their clerkship; he said that LOR readers know that this happens, and usually pay this omission little attention. I think that the contents of the letter, rather than the "wrapper", will seal - or break - the deal.

Just curious, but do people send dept of medicine letters to rad onc programs? I did and I think the dept chair addressed the letter as if I were applying into an IM prelim years (too bad we don't get to glance over letters before hand). Does anyone feel like this could be a problem. May just be me being neurotic...
 
Nothing left to do now but wait.......
Like waiting isn't what we been doing since September!!! I now consistently have sweaty :thumbdown:thumbdown palms when checking my email... a conditioned response that will take years of therapy to correct. :laugh:
 
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