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Thanks. I'm supposing that since you are making this recommendation you must hold these 3 programs in some sort of regard. Good programs?
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I've been around for over 2 years so no. By the way, where are you applying?
I have heard from a lot of people that they are unsure about whether to apply at Yale, owing to concerns about the location. My opinions might be biased, but I just want to put it out there that I am really very happy both with the program (particularly the insane number of research opportunities), and with New Haven. The city has its bad areas, for sure, but I have found a really great place to live, regularly eat out at wonderful restaurants, and am particularly enjoying the beauty and extensive resources (libraries, music rooms, dining halls) at Yale University. The proximity to both New York and Boston is also an advantage. If anyone has more specific questions or concerns please let me know - I promise to reply honestly and as objectively as possible.
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Well, now that you mention it, I've been wondering how hard it is to get into a place like Yale (or other programs of similar caliber) as an IMG. I see that they have a couple of IMGs in each year, but I'm wondering if those people are exceptional or if it's possible to get in with just strong rec letters, a good interview, and solid USMLE scores.
Did some of you guys just find SDN as MS4 or you got new profiles???
Now I'm wondering what I posted over last 5 years.
I was active on the premed forums. Active enough that my med school classmates knew it was me. Lurked during med school, mostly for steps, but wanted to start posting again during the residency application process and figured it would be best to start over w a new profile.
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Good luck to you all who are starting this crazy, but fun process. Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions about applying to the NYC, Boston, or West Coast programs (applied to about 12 places total in these regions last year).
I don't know how hard it is - I am an IMG and I am one of two in my year. We both had a decent amount of research experience. I think the program likes to have 1 or 2 IMG's each year - it really adds to the diversity of the experience. I would say read Splik's thread for specific advice and go for it!
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Does anyone know what time we can actually submit ERAS on 9/15? I have a wedding to go to that day. I've heard 12am midnight, 8am and noon. I can't find a definitive answer on the main site either.
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Why don't you wait until Sunday? I know that my coordinators and I are not going to spend the weekend downloading apps!
Two words: Re. Lax.
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I was thinking about doing it Sunday too.
I promise I am trying to be chill. Then I make the mistake of going on SDN and reading about how no one has any chance of matching into anything ever 'cause [insert vague claim], and I start to tweak a little bit. I swear I'm mostly normal.
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good point. totally didn't consider that no one will be reading these over the weekend
quick ERAS question -- where did you get your pictures from/taken?
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good point. totally didn't consider that no one will be reading these over the weekend
quick ERAS question -- where did you get your pictures from/taken?
My school gave us two options: (a) use the picture taken at orientation or (b) submit a new picture to the registrar that meets the ERAS criteria. I just used my old one, as my overall appearance is essentially the same (same hair color, same weight, same style of dress).
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While I agree with applying to those programs, I'm not sure they're better with the exception of UW, which seems to have more resources and a stronger academic reputation placing it up there with UCLA/UCSF. I think UC Davis and Irvine would both be more chill than OHSU and UW, which could be a plus. Chill helps you learn psychotherapy, which imo is not a bad thing. I don't know much about Hawaii, but I'd be surprised if OHSU and UC Irvine would be considered "better" a better program than UC Davis. My hunch is they're all different but not necessarily better. Of the 3, I'd say OHSU has the best location, though.
I don't know if I would put UW in the same league as UCSF. Many of the residents at UW will tell you that they ranked UCSF first but didn't get in. Really the only UW program (among psych, medicine, surgery, etc) that can draw residents away from UCSF is pediatrics.
Of all programs in the U.S., I'd say people at OHSU get access to the best food.
UW and UPenn are close seconds.
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I don't know if I would put UW in the same league as UCSF. Many of the residents at UW will tell you that they ranked UCSF first but didn't get in. Really the only UW program (among psych, medicine, surgery, etc) that can draw residents away from UCSF is pediatrics.
Of all programs in the U.S., I'd say people at OHSU get access to the best food.
Maybe it's not as hard to match into, but I think in terms of reputation, it's probably fairly close. If anything, it's #3 after the UCLA and UCSF programs. Which one of those is first is a question, too, if you care.
As for food, are you talking about restaurants or hospital food? I will say OHSU has significantly cut back on the free food available to residents. In the past, you never had to pay for food and you had enough food money left over to buy tokens for the farmers' market. No more.
That actually represents a few thousand dollars in pay cuts to me, but I guess maybe it was too good to be true before. Not to say you should make your decisions based on this, but I get a little miffed every time I have to pay for my coffee at the hospital.Maybe it's not as hard to match into, but I think in terms of reputation, it's probably fairly close. If anything, it's #3 after the UCLA and UCSF programs. Which one of those is first is a question, too, if you care.
As for food, are you talking about restaurants or hospital food? I will say OHSU has significantly cut back on the free food available to residents. In the past, you never had to pay for food and you had enough food money left over to buy tokens for the farmers' market. No more.
Oh yeah -- I meant the food in the city generally
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Oh yeah -- I meant the food in the city generally
Hmm, does Portland have better food than Seattle or other major west coast towns? I think Sunset (does this say anything, I don't know) published something saying Seattle was better than us. Portland's got the whole food cart culture, though, and definitely a better beer scene.
I'm biased, but I think overall Portland is the best place to live on the west coast. It's more affordable than the other cities and friendlier with great food, beer, coffee, wine ... It's also fantastic for hiking and close enough, imo, to the beach. The weather really isn't that bad either, but if you value sunshine and hot weather above everything else, you won't like it.
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First clothing, now food, this thread is hitting all the bases. Next- the music scene?
I've heard good things about Minneapolis?
I've heard good things about Minneapolis?
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I'd love some input on the music scene and general culture cities too: Minneapolis, Madison, Rochester, Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor, etc?
Also, any good coffee cities in the Midwest?
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I loved the music scene in Columbia, MO as an undergrad... I'm expecting that other college towns would be the same - Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor, Madison, etc.
I'd be lying if I said that wasn't also a consideration when I decided to apply for UW and OHSU... my application is otherwise very East-focused.
I'd be lying if I said that wasn't also a consideration when I decided to apply for UW and OHSU... my application is otherwise very East-focused.
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The weirder the reason for liking the place, the more it may be your gut sending you a message, and if there is one good bit of advice us old codgers can offer you young'uns, it's to listen to your gut a lot these next 6 months. 1) spouse/other person you are sleeping with long-term, 2) gut, 3) conscious thoughts and rationalizations.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
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I've spent all of zero time in the upper midwest aside from some brief stops in Chicago, but I've always heard good things about Minneapolis, Ann Arbor and Madison. Lifestyle is pretty important especially when you consider how nice it is to stay and practice where you did residency.
And actually on the hospital food note, living in a town with a good food and coffee scene makes for better food and coffee in the hospital, which makes those nights on call a little better.
Other thoughts about program selection, you're not going to know for sure what you want to do or what you'll be drawn to, so maybe hedge bets and pick some place that would support training in lots of different avenues. Also, even if you think it's totally not your thing, having some psychoanalytic presence in your community can broaden your training.
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I appreciate that advice. I have been feeling a little silly about letting the area influence my interest in programs so much, so that makes me feel a little better.
When I read in the 2011 NRMP outcomes data that matched US seniors in psychiatry have an avg of 5.9 volunteer experiences, and 2.7 work experiences, is that during med school? Or does that count activities prior to med school. Same question applies to research.
Cuz if it is stuff done during med school, and if it is important, I am in trouble...
Cuz if it is stuff done during med school, and if it is important, I am in trouble...
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"Music scene" varies widely depending on what type of music is your "scene".
But given that list above--only Minneapolis/St. Paul counts as being an actual CITY: with multiple and varied clubs featuring all genres, 2 professional symphonies, active local theater, multiple venues for touring national acts, etc.
Madison and Ann Arbor are fairly classic college towns--so less likely to get big acts on a regular basis, more likely to be the place you catch someone before they're massively famous, etc...
Rochester is a company town.
K'zoo is...a town.
Iowa City. Every barista and cab driver in town has a Masters degree, at minimum.
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That might be the best advice I've gotten with regard to residency selection. Or the worst. We'll find out in a few years.
Although I don't think my gut is suggesting Seattle or Portland, since I've never been to either of those cities.
You are not in trouble - I am sure you are right but I am really surprised the average number of volunteer experiences is so high. I certainly didn't have as many and didn't have a problem, and I can't think that you will have difficulty for that reason.
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I'd wager that most volunteer experiences are garbage. That being said, mine are garbage too and I don't feel like listing them because they are. On the other hand, I've wondered if not listing any will look odd.
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Yo,
MS4 here applying, mid-tier US medical school in NY. Significant other and family in NYC, would highly prefer to stay here.
Columbia
Cornell
Mt. Sinai
Montefiore
NYU
St. Lukes - Roosevelt
Beth Isreal
North Shore - LIJ
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook
NYMC (Metropolitan)
UPenn
Yale
Thank I should add more programs?
MS4 here applying, mid-tier US medical school in NY. Significant other and family in NYC, would highly prefer to stay here.
Columbia
Cornell
Mt. Sinai
Montefiore
NYU
St. Lukes - Roosevelt
Beth Isreal
North Shore - LIJ
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook
NYMC (Metropolitan)
UPenn
Yale
Thank I should add more programs?
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I've heard some concerning things about SUNY-Downstate as well. Honestly, if you're a US grad, I'd avoid the SUNY-Downstate/NYMC/types of programs. You don't need them, and you don't want to be there.
Question about number of letters.. some programs ask for three and others ask for four. ERAS allows us to send in a max of four letters to each program. Would you guys send in four letters to programs that ask for three letters? Or stick with three letters?
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It's OK to send 4 to everyone, but I wouldn't send more than that. At least this is what aPD in the ERAS forum says.
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Agree with this. I never heard great things about UCI. I didn't hear a lot of bad things, just not a lot of good things. Many of us committed to staying in California skipped that program. Unless you have a hankering for the city of Orange, it doesn't jump high on most folks' radars. UC Davis would be up there with the top California programs if it were on the coast instead of in Sacramento (an acquired taste for most).
Doc Bagel's definitely right that OHSU wins hands down for location.
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I went to UC Irvine for undergrad, lived in newport beach, loved the waves, had long candid conversations with drunken fishermen, and flew my kite every week. The medical center itself is fairly inland and the older buildings are a bit janky. If you look at the resident roster, they're all from pretty good institutions. Ergo, don't count it out, you never know if a little bit of extra sun will sway you.
But OHSU is indeed awesome.
On another note, I have my ERAS pretty much done, but the MSPE doesnt come out until Oct 1st, and 2 of my letters aren't in yet. Would programs start looking at my app before the MSPE comes out, or before I have all my letters?
But OHSU is indeed awesome.
On another note, I have my ERAS pretty much done, but the MSPE doesnt come out until Oct 1st, and 2 of my letters aren't in yet. Would programs start looking at my app before the MSPE comes out, or before I have all my letters?
well, I kinda have alot on my list right now...
I know I probably should whittle down a bit...
on the other hand having met people who didn't match before has me worried...
University of South Alabama, Mobile, AL
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus , Tucson, AZ
University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, CA
UCLA-Kern Medical Center, Bakersfield, CA
University of California (Irvine), Orange, CA
University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno, Fresno, CA
Institute of Living/Hartford Hospital, Hartford, CT
Advocate Lutheran General Hospital, Park Ridge, IL
Southern Illinois University, Springfield, IL
The Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University , North Chicago, IL
University of Illinois College of Medicine at Peoria, Peoria, IL
University of Kansas (Wichita), Wichita, KS
University of Kansas School of Medicine, Kansas City, KS
Baystate Medical Center/Tufts University School of Medicine, Springfield, MA
Berkshire Medical Center, Pittsfield, MA
University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt, Baltimore, MD
Maine Medical Center, Portland, ME
Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, MI
St Mary Mercy Hospital, Livonia, MI
College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Rochester), Rochester, MN
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN
Vidant Medical Center/East Carolina University, Greenville, NC
Bergen Regional Medical Center, Paramus, NJ
University of Nevada School of Medicine, Reno, NV
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY
Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Bronx-Lebanon Hospital Center , Bronx, NY
Jamaica Hospital Medical Center, Jamaica, NY
NSLIJHS/Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine at Zucker Hillside Hospital, Glen Oaks, NY
Nassau University Medical Center, East Meadow, NY
New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus)/New York State Psychiatric Institute, NY, NY
St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center , New York, NY
University Hospital/University of Cincinnati College of Medicine , Cincinnati, OH
Allegheny General Hospital-Western Pennsylvania Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA
UPMC Medical Education, Pittsburgh, PA
Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, SC
University of South Dakota, Sioux Falls, SD
John Peter Smith Hospital, Fort Worth, TX
Texas Tech University Health Sciences, El Paso, TX
University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio , San Antonio, TX
University of Texas Medical Branch Hospitals , Galveston, TX
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School (Austin), Austin, TX
Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine , Roanoke, VA
University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA
Virginia Commonwealth University Health System , Richmond, VA
University of Vermont, Burlington, VT
University of Washington, Seattle, WA
Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals, Milwaukee, WI
University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI
I know I probably should whittle down a bit...
on the other hand having met people who didn't match before has me worried...
University of South Alabama, Mobile, AL
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus , Tucson, AZ
University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, CA
UCLA-Kern Medical Center, Bakersfield, CA
University of California (Irvine), Orange, CA
University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno, Fresno, CA
Institute of Living/Hartford Hospital, Hartford, CT
Advocate Lutheran General Hospital, Park Ridge, IL
Southern Illinois University, Springfield, IL
The Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University , North Chicago, IL
University of Illinois College of Medicine at Peoria, Peoria, IL
University of Kansas (Wichita), Wichita, KS
University of Kansas School of Medicine, Kansas City, KS
Baystate Medical Center/Tufts University School of Medicine, Springfield, MA
Berkshire Medical Center, Pittsfield, MA
University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt, Baltimore, MD
Maine Medical Center, Portland, ME
Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, MI
St Mary Mercy Hospital, Livonia, MI
College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Rochester), Rochester, MN
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN
Vidant Medical Center/East Carolina University, Greenville, NC
Bergen Regional Medical Center, Paramus, NJ
University of Nevada School of Medicine, Reno, NV
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY
Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Bronx-Lebanon Hospital Center , Bronx, NY
Jamaica Hospital Medical Center, Jamaica, NY
NSLIJHS/Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine at Zucker Hillside Hospital, Glen Oaks, NY
Nassau University Medical Center, East Meadow, NY
New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus)/New York State Psychiatric Institute, NY, NY
St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center , New York, NY
University Hospital/University of Cincinnati College of Medicine , Cincinnati, OH
Allegheny General Hospital-Western Pennsylvania Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA
UPMC Medical Education, Pittsburgh, PA
Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, SC
University of South Dakota, Sioux Falls, SD
John Peter Smith Hospital, Fort Worth, TX
Texas Tech University Health Sciences, El Paso, TX
University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio , San Antonio, TX
University of Texas Medical Branch Hospitals , Galveston, TX
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School (Austin), Austin, TX
Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine , Roanoke, VA
University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA
Virginia Commonwealth University Health System , Richmond, VA
University of Vermont, Burlington, VT
University of Washington, Seattle, WA
Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals, Milwaukee, WI
University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI
Thanks!! Appreciate it!
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Holy moly, that's a lot of programs! And they seem kind of all over the places in terms of location and reputation. Unless you've got some major red flag, I'd cut it down. You're a DO, right? You'll be fine unless again you murdered somebody or spent some time in jail.
For cutting stuff down, I'd start with geography and go from there. For example, if you don't really want to be in the upper midwest, why University of S. Dakota? Not knocking them, but I've never heard of them, and the location is only appealing to a pretty narrow group of people.
Now, while this doesn't help with cutting stuff down, if you're applying in Wichita and N. Texas, I'd also look at University of Oklahoma - Tulsa. They love DOs (look at their faculty and resident lists), and it's a nice program with a pretty good resident lifestyle. Tulsa's a much prettier city than Wichita, too.
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I'll edit for you.
University of South Alabama, Mobile, AL - Mobile sucks.
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus , Tucson, AZ
University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
HAVE YOU SEEN THE BUGS IN ARIZONA?!?!?! NO! Here: BUGS!
Unless you're from Cali, I wouldn't bother. Overrated, expensive, not super DO friendly, I could go on and on. Earthquakes. San Diego, maybe.
Institute of Living/Hartford Hospital, Hartford, CT
A friend of mine went here. Left and switched to IM. Very therapy oriented and wants things done their way. Work more than average but not abusive. Also, COLD. Skip it.
Illinois sucks, skip it.
Kansas = Tornado portals to Oz. Skip it. Go to Iowa instead. Seriously. U Iowa rocks.
Mass. = Too Cold. Brrr. Also, expensive.
Baltimore is a crap hole except for the inner harbor. Run away and be glad you didn't get shot.
Maine Medical Center, Portland, ME
Have only heard great things about this one. I'd apply. As long as you don't mind the cold.
Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, MI - Do you have a death wish? Look at crime rates people!
St Mary Mercy Hospital, Livonia, MI
Where?College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Rochester), Rochester, MN - Why not?
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN - Why not?
Vidant Medical Center/East Carolina University, Greenville, NC - An ok place. Interviewed there. Would be a good backup.
No one should live in New Jersey except Snooki.
Reno. The failed vegas. Skip it.
You can't afford to live in NYC.
University Hospital/University of Cincinnati College of Medicine , Cincinnati, OH - Meh.
Allegheny General Hospital-Western Pennsylvania Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA - Meh.
UPMC Medical Education, Pittsburgh, PA - Sure, why not.
Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, SC
Totally awesome. University of South Dakota, Sioux Falls, SD - This is just desperate. Skip it.
Really, Texas? They don't like outsiders you know? Austin seems like a good idea, but I've heard mixed reviews. I'd skip it if you don't have strong ties there.
Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine , Roanoke, VA - Ok place. Good back up. Not very strong academically, lots of FMGs.
University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA
Virginia Commonwealth University Health System , Richmond, VA - Decent place.
University of Vermont, Burlington, VT - Good, small program. Brr.
University of Washington, Seattle, WA - Don't know anything. But sure.
Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals, Milwaukee, WI - Awesome program. Brrrr.
University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI - Didn't go here, but it's probably pretty good.
So, my shortened list:
Maine Medical Center
Mayo
U Minnesota
UPMC
MUSC
ECU
Carilion Va.
UVA
VCU
MCW
UW-Madison
U Vermont
U Wash - Seattle
Not bad. Why not some of these:
USC-Palmetto - I'm a huge fan. My #2. You have MUSC.
Vanderbilt - DO friendly, great program, great city.
WVU - Great program, small college town, football, snow, close to Pitt.
Indiana U - My MVP. I truly loved this program. Would've been #1 or 2 except for family reasons.
U Iowa - Best program in the midwest IMO. If you're going to do Kansas, you'd BETTER do Iowa.
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Thanks Dr. Bagel. I feel much better about my non-felon status now
and Thanks for the input digitlnoize, will be using some of your comments to whittle down my own list as well.
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Thanks Doc Bagel, and others. Are there other programs in the area and somewhat beyond that I am overlooking that may be worth applying to? I fear my list may be too short, makes me a bit queasy. I'm a fairly average medical student, maybe slightly above avg boards, some research, good LORs, etc.
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I went to a lot of these places and have written fairly extensively on them in the past. The quick version:
UVa - Rocks.
VCU - Pretty good, especially if you like working with an urban/underserved crowd. Strong consult team.
Carilion (Roanoke) - Nice people, not the best program. A good and worthy back up. Roanoke doesn't have a lot to offer as a city. Weak didactics and the VA part kind of sucks, IMO.
Wake - over rated, and watch out for their call schedule.
ECU - See Roanoke. A good backup or a good place for a particularly weak candidate. Pretty "meh" town.
I didn't got to Duke or UNC so on your own.
MUSC: Rocks with research $$$ and work
USC-Palmetto: Rocks without research $$$ and one of the best schedules anywhere.
WVU (Morgantown): Strong program, sucky town (IMO). Particularly strong in opiate addictions. Great hours. Off at 4pm if you're not on call or off service. Longest service Chairman in all of medicine (any field). Don't know anything about the other WVU.
Northeast: Check out Vermont and Maine in particular. I'm not a fan of the Hartford Hospital program. For me, I find the cost of living in the Big Cities (NYC, Boston, Chicago, Philly, etc) to make those places not worth it...plus it's cold.
Out West: Not sure what you mean, but strong contenders for me would be: Indiana, Iowa, MCW (Milwaukee, WI), and Vanderbilt.
Good luck!
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Chicago's actually not as bad as NYC and Boston (don't know about Philly) with regard to cost of living. But the weather is killer.
You are correct on cost of living, but having lived through several winters in both Chicago and Boston, Boston winters are worse, and much colder, than Chicago.
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Oh I know, and Philly is also cheaper than the other two...but it's still FAR FAR FAR cheaper to live in Columbia SC, Richmond VA, or even Charlottesville VA, than any of those places.
In Columbia SC (USC-Palmetto) you can get a very nice ~2,000 sf house for ~150k. In Charlottesville that'll run you ~300k. What will you pay for 2000sf in a large city? Any large city. A whole lot more. Plus parking (or mass transit fees), crime, etc...it's just not worth it IMO.
I prefer to visit large cities rather than live in them. Best of both worlds.
