They are completely separate programs. In fact it is easier to to think of them as completely separate medical schools.
The "college track" is a niche school that is essentially run by The Cleveland Clinic. The class is small (~32) and is both academically and geographically separate from the University Program. You will basically never interact with UP (except for a couple mixers at the start of the year). This program takes 5 years for completion, because there is an extra 1yr mandatory research time. Tuition is free.
It should also be noted that it's not just mandatory research time, rather the "college track" is geared at training people who will be clinician scientists. If that's not your goal, don't apply just because you like the free tuition. They seem pretty good at screening people for this.
Since no one has posted anything like this yet, here's a FAQ cut and pasted from last year's thread, which you should definitely check out
FAQ(!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auriga
Hi guys! Welcome to Case's application thread!
Since this is early on the first page, I decided to create a FAQ to answer what we think are particularly important things that come up often in later pages. I'll update it periodically. Those with moderators' magical wands are free to edit at will.
This is NOT comprehensive. Please feel free to ask questions anytime!
(I.)There are two tracks at Case: the University Program (UP), and the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine (CCLCM) program.
Although when people say "Case," they're frequently referring to the UP, we're one big happy family here. So when you have questions about something specific to one program or another, please specify which (UP or CCLCM). That helps keep things from becoming confusing!
(II.) Common to both programs:
(A.) PBL-style learning: Myuu gives a great explanation in a post below. Linked here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...2&postcount=12
(B.) Free classes (including Masters Degrees!) at Case. Except for Law, Dental, and Nursing degrees. Small fees apply for Masters Degrees. There are quite a few students from both UP and CCLCM who choose to pursue a second degree. Common ones are listed below.
Some students try to cram it all in at once, to finish during the 4 years (5 for CCLCM). Most take an extra year to complete the requirements for the degree.
(1.) Masters of Anatomy (most do finish in the 4 years)
(2.) Masters in Public Health (MPH)
(3.) Masters in Bioethics
(4.) M.S. in whatever. vc7777 is doing this.
(III.) Specific to UP: The University Program is a 4 year program with approx. 166 students, including 8 MSTP students.
MSTP is tuition-free; the regular UP is the student's responsibility (although there are many financial aid options, scholarships, and grants offered.)
(A.) MSTP (Medical Scientists Training Program) is an 8 year program that leads to an M.D. and a Ph.D.
The first 2 pre-clinical years are spent 100% with your fellow matriculating UP class. The following ~4 years are spent completing requirements for the Ph.D. The last 2 clinical years are spent with UP and CCLCM students who will graduate the same year as you.
(IV.) Specific to CCLCM: CCLCM is a 5 year program aimed at training physician scientists. There are 32 students per class. Tuition is paid for by the program, not the student.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vc7777
Quote:
Originally Posted by citrusguy2010
is the CCLCM program only for basic sciences? or would public health be considered in there too?
Hi! I'm Vc7777, I am a (soon to be) second year at CCLCM, which is also called the College program (CP) at Case. I am also a rocket scientist, just so you know. I may some day be a rocket-surgeon. Stay tuned to find out.
CCLCM is not just basic sciences. Translational, and clinical are also actively pursued. As for Public Health, you can get an MPH (masters of public health) while you are here, although it is one of the most labor intensive courses of study (based on shear number of classes). You can do public health related research as part of your program here at CCLCM.
Hope that helps.
What is CCLCM?
"The mission of the CCLCM is "to educate a limited number of highly qualified persons who seek to become physician investigators and scientists committed to the advancement of biomedical research and clinical practice."
"In 2002, the Cleveland Clinic and Case Western Reserve University formed an historic partnership to establish the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine of CWRU (CCLCM) – an innovative medical school program with a mission to train physician investigators. Every aspect of CCLCM is focused on achieving this goal - from admissions criteria and supportive financial aid to curriculum design and student assessment. Students develop the skills of self-directed learning critical for success as a physician and an investigator." -CCLCM website.
Take a look at our website, and see if this interests you. We train completely separately our first two years from our UP comrades. No grades, no class ranking, and the smallest class I know of (32). We have a portfolio based system of promotion each year.
After our second year, we have the same rights and privileges as the rest of the Case students. CCLCM has an extra year, but the masters degree is free-of-charge if you want it. We are committed to training physician investigators. It is sort of a happy medium between a traditional medical school curriculum and a Mud-phud (MD/PhD) track (which by the way CWRU also has). -vc7777
Is the CCLCM program only for basic sciences? or would public health / other research focuses be considered in there too?
At CCLCM "Research" is broadly defined and can include investigations into the business of healthcare, the delivery of medicine, epidemiology, clinical, translational, or basic sciences (among many others). Public health, nutrition, biomedical engineering, and similar areas are all fair game.
You must do two summers (before your first and second years) in basic and clinical research. No getting out of that. This is to ensure everyone has exposure to both major forms of medical research before graduation.
CCLCM is very personalized after your second year, and the school they will consider any reasonable research pursuit (assuming funding, PI credentials, sound proposals, etc. etc.). The other cool thing is that you do not have to commit until nearing your research year to any given path. -vc7777
How much research do I need to be a competitive applicant to CCLCM?
CCLCM attracts a lot of the same people who apply to MD/PhD programs, including the Case MSTP. I would say that at least one year of part-time research experience is the minimum for CCLCM. The ideal would be to have 3+ years of research experience. More important than the length of time you spend doing research is your role in the research. Washing dishes and running assays without understanding what you're doing for five years isn't very valuable. You should be able to explain the rationale, hypothesis, results, interpretation of data, etc. related to your project. -CCLCMer
How many letters do I need for CCLCM?
You need at least on letter from faculty member who can attest to your performance within a research setting. This likely will be beyond you "usual" letters (or committee letter) for MD-only applications.
What's a typical schedule like for a first year at CCLCM?
A week of Vc7777's 1st year
What's the match list for CCLCM like?
[link to CCLCM match list]
Please keep in mind that the number of people going into a particular residency is highly variable at any school. If there are more people interested in a particular specialty, there will be more matches. I will say that our track record of alumni success should convince you that Case in general and CCLCM in particular will not limit you.
Can you apply CCLCM and UP?
You can apply to both, or just to one or the other. Please note, our admissions process is entirely separate after the secondary. If you apply to both, you will receive two independent outcomes, meaning there are four possibilities:
Accepted both
Rejected both
Accepted UP not CP
Accepted CP not UP
(Please note these are not in any particular order) -vc7777
For admissions purposes, the two programs function quasi independently, almost as if they were two separate med schools. There are two separate admissions offices and two separate adcomms. It is possible to be invited to interview by one program and not the other, and it is also possible to be accepted to one program and rejected by the other. - CCLCMer
If I want to apply to CCLCM and Case for MD, is that same as two different applications, or is it just two different secondaries (one for CCLCM and one for Case MD)? I just want to know the answer mainly because of cost.
You must select Case on your primary. That is, there is no separate checkbox on the primary for CCLCM. However, when you receive your secondary for CWRU, you can elect to apply to CCLCM only, Case only, or both programs. There is no requirement that you must apply to the UP if you are only interested in the CP. - vc7777
There is NO added cost to applying to both, it's all one application. Also, if you do decide to apply to CCLCM, there will be more essays. More bang for your buck! - PhNerd1105
How much segregation and/or integration there is between the regular MD program, the CCLCM program, and the MSTP?
As for CCLCM, we (UP students) actually don't interact with them very much. The campuses are separate, by a 20 minute walk or 5-10 min drive, and our programs are different. It's not that there's no love, it's that we don't have much opportunity. Unless we do on our own. Which is something that the student council (which is comprised of both UP and CCLCM) is working on changing! - Auriga
Yes, we train entirely separately from the UP students. Our programs have different missions and different overall formats for the basic science years. -vc7777
After Step 1 (generally taken at the end of second year), students from both programs do rotations and research together, and the MSTP students rotate with the rest of us as well. The only differences during rotations are that CCLCM students continue to be graded P/F, and taking the shelf exams is optional for us. UP/MSTP students are required to take the shelfs, and they have an H/HP/P/F type of grading system. But students from all three programs rotate at all of the Case-affiliated hospitals, work on the same teams on the wards, attend clinical lectures together, etc. - CCLCMer
Does CCLCM pay for tuition, like MSTP?
CCLCM covers the tuition for the four years of medical school, plus the costs of (optional) masters classes at Case. In addition, a laptop, parking permits, and gym membership are provided at no cost. During your research year (either your 3rd of 4th year) you must find an independent source of funding to cover your research. Given the size and age of our program, we have had impressive success with securing named fellowships/research grants for many of our students, so this should not be a concern at time of application.
What percentage of people in the CCLCM program go for an additional degree?
The number of students who seek other degrees is highly variable. Currently about HALF of my class (!!) is enrolled in CRSP. Four others are taking MPH classes. Some of the engineers are considering the biomedical degree. But take all of this with a grain of salt - this is a personal decision. Just rest assured that CCLCM has cranked out many students with a masters degrees. -vc7777
Many start out planning to do an MS, but few actually finish. In my class, about 1/4 of us got MSes. Four or five of us did CRSP, one person did BME, one did an MPH. There may have been one or two others. -CCLCMer
What options are there for figuring out *exactly* what you want to do?
I'll refer you to:
cclcm.ccf.org
There is a guest login option. Login as "guest" and password "guest"
on the Right hand banner is a "Master's Degree Options" this is a list of masters options currently available.
Btw, this is our educational portal. It shows students a personalized schedule (I really mean personalized...room assignments, special preceptorships, etc...). This calendar is now google linked...which is sweet b/c is work seamlessly with my android phone. -vc7777
Depends on when you mean. Once you've decided to matriculate to CCLCM, the school will ask you what areas of basic research you are interested in. You will give a few choices, and they will assign you a researcher for your first summer, which is the basic science summer. For the second (clinical research) summer, students typically choose their own mentor. Likewise for the research year.
You have a ton of exposure to potential mentors during med school. The first block of both preclinical years (first and second) is pretty much all research-oriented. During the rest of the first and second years, you have a weekly research seminar. You also can contact PIs on your own to set up research projects. In addition, you are not limited to doing research at CCF. You can do research at any of the Case-affiliated centers, including the Case med school, University Hospitals, Rainbow Babies, Metro (county hospital), and the VA. If you're interested in geriatrics, there will be plenty of opportunities for you. Likewise in onc. -CCLCMer
Is the interview format the same regardless of whether I'm applying for CP/UP? Are CP applicants interviewed at the same time as UP applicants? or do they get interviewed first?
The CP office doesn't start reviewing applications until later, so CP-only and UP-CP applicants will interview later than people who just apply UP. In terms of actual interview days, your CP interview will be the day before your UP interview. Can't have you spending loads of cash to come here twice, after all. - Myuu
I agree with Myuu, but I suspect this to be true mainly near the beginning of the interview season. But the message should be clear: don't freak out if people who applied AFTER you are getting interview spots for UP before you. It doesn't mean you are not being considered. -vc7777
What is the CP interview format, is it separate from the UP?
If you are invited to interview by both programs, you will have two completely separate interview days. The CCLCM interview day is conducted at CCF, and the UP interview day is conducted at Case, which is about a mile away. The admissions offices will try to coordinate your interview days back-to-back so that you don't have to make two separate trips to Cleveland. Case interviews UP candidates on M-T-F, and CCLCM interviews on M-Th-F, so generally you would either do M/T or Th/F. - CCLCMer
There are three CCLCM interviews, all one-on-one. Two are with faculty and one with a student. Typically, one faculty interviewer will focus more on your research, while the other will focus more on the medicine side. -CCLCMer
I want to apply to both programs (Case and CCLCM), but in AMCAS do I select MD only or the MD/Masters when adding the school?
MD-only unless you know already that you're applying to one of your grad programs as well. - Myuu
Has there been Canadians/other international folks at CCLCM? Just curious.
We have a strong showing of international students. We've even accepted Canadians, too. (that's a joke, btw) -vc7777
Yes. My class had three Canadians and three people from other countries (Japan, Ghana, and India). -CCLCMer
Do you think a phd applying would be weird or is that not uncommon?
Your app will definitely NOT be tossed if you have a PhD, and it will NOT be weird to apply if you have a PhD. There are several students with PhDs who have been accepted and matriculated--we had two people with PhDs in my class, which may not sound like many until you consider that the entire class was only 32 people! For seeing the MS options, the best thing to do is to go to the portal like vc7777 suggested above. -CCLCMer
I have a classmate with a PharmD, and I believe other PhDs were accepted but did not attend. -vc7777
What kind of research and where can you do it at CCLCM?
Sky's the limit for your full research year. You are not limited to just our own institution, but nearly everything in and around Cleveland - (MetroHealth, Univ. Hospital, Rainbow Babies, The VA, Case proper). In addition, if you have funding and an establish program you can perform your research year at away institutions (even international) - however note Dr. Young (our Dean) has set the bar reasonably higher for conducting your research year away from Cleveland. Note that your first two summer research experiences MUST be done around Cleveland (because you also have courses to take during the summers). For the summer before your first year, a compendium is published with potential PIs and their corresponding research interests. You can indicate preferences, however the staff will assign you to one of them before you arrive. -vc7777
When do interviews start?
Interviews to my knowledge will start around beginning of September. I will confirm when the schedule is available -vc7777
Is there anything you really don't like about the CCLCM program? If you had to pick again, would you definitely stay with CCLCM? Also, do you like the more independent learning style/group work approach?
vc7777's response
CCLCMer's response
And what's the gunner population like?
vc7777's response
CCLCMer's response
Quote:
Originally Posted by berriesandcream
what exactly are secondary and interviews based on? I see from the MSAR data the mean is 3.8/35, and I have nowhere near there. Totally wanna apply, but I'm trying to look at the realistic options... Completely interested and loving the school though
Quote:
Originally Posted by vc7777
Apply because you love us. Tell us how you love us and how you will make our class more interesting.
[...]
Interesting people get into Case because they are interesting AND because we feel that they can succeed here. It is a tough question to answer - I think so many factors play into a "successful" application leading to an interview. As banal as it may sound: We have the essays on the secondary because we want to KNOW the responses. I mean, there were (are?) some schools without a secondary when I applied. These schools didn't want additional information before an interview decision was made. I mention this as proof that there is no requirement for schools to put essays on a secondary. So, our essays are there because we want to know the answers. They are important to the adcom, and I suggest you reply in a thoughtful and professional manner.
As for grades and MCAT scores, I can only give you anecdotal evidence from friends and myself. Averages are the average. What neither you nor I know is the standard deviation or other statistical methods of characterizing the cohort. This isn't Lake Woebegone, that I can tell you. We are not all above the average.
That thing is a beast.
