2014-2015 OFFICIAL INTERVIEW THREAD, Emergency Medicine
- Thread starter MattyBee
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Agreed. However it does play a role for a very small number of programs that just won't interview you without at least 2 SLOEs. As always, the most important factors for the number of interviews you receive are class rank, clinical grades, step scores, and, probably the most important, the number and competitiveness of programs that you apply to.
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From my personal experience, the most important thing in the Match is having 2 SLOEs in very early AND applying to a ****load of programs.
I was told by tons of people that I was super competitive and to only apply to 30ish places, expect 15+ interviews and go on 10-12.
I applied to 36 on Sept 15th, added maybe 10 more 1-2 weeks later. And since then I have applied to approx 70 programs, with many being as late at Oct 24th.
I have not been invited to a single program that I applied to late. And I have been rejected from many that I applied to late, even some that people would consider "low tier" programs.
If I had advice to future EM applicants it would be:
1. Apply to 70+ programs off the bat, screw it, an extra $500 doesnt mean **** and doesnt matter how competitive you think you are, just do it.
2. Try as hard as you can to get 2 SLOEs in by Oct1st
I was told by tons of people that I was super competitive and to only apply to 30ish places, expect 15+ interviews and go on 10-12.
I applied to 36 on Sept 15th, added maybe 10 more 1-2 weeks later. And since then I have applied to approx 70 programs, with many being as late at Oct 24th.
I have not been invited to a single program that I applied to late. And I have been rejected from many that I applied to late, even some that people would consider "low tier" programs.
If I had advice to future EM applicants it would be:
1. Apply to 70+ programs off the bat, screw it, an extra $500 doesnt mean **** and doesnt matter how competitive you think you are, just do it.
2. Try as hard as you can to get 2 SLOEs in by Oct1st
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"1. Apply to 70+ programs off the bat, screw it, an extra $500 doesnt mean **** and doesnt matter how competitive you think you are, just do it."
I'm sorry for what's happening to you, but that is terrible advice. Doing this would just screw over those that don't have great applications.
I'm sorry for what's happening to you, but that is terrible advice. Doing this would just screw over those that don't have great applications.
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Not really. Going on more than 15 interviews IMO is what hurts less competitive applicants, since the hard data doesn't show any additional chance of matching once you hit ~12.
I applied very broadly, not 70+ but somewhere in the neighborhood, and don't regret it. Yes I've had to cancel a few but if I applied to only programs in SF, Chi-town, LA I would be sitting with a few less interviews than I'd feel comfortable with at this point.
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Being a sloppy second interview makes it a lot harder to schedule the interview as there are limited dates.
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OK, solid point. Though I think most people find room in their schedule easily enough if needed.
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I'm making it happen.
I hate to make this a negative rant, but as someone who has 12 interviews (and perfectly happy with where I am), I'm kind of embarrassed to call some of you my future colleagues if you are sitting on 20 plus interviews and not canceling them. I have a few applicants at my school who are all quite competitive sitting at only 4 or 5 interviews, and your essentially ^{%}'ing them over, no easy way to put it. So why don't those who are uber competitive cancel their damn interviews already at places that they know they aren't going to interview at and spread some good fortune. I don't know why everyone is hoarding interviews ( you do not need 17 interviews to match you neurotic a$$hats lol....period. And the later you cancel them the more your just being selfish and not a team player. Rant over 
lol
lol
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I hate to make this a negative rant, but as someone who has 12 interviews (and perfectly happy with where I am), I'm kind of embarrassed to call some of you my future colleagues if you are sitting on 20 plus interviews and not canceling them. I have a few applicants at my school who are all quite competitive sitting at only 4 or 5 interviews, and your essentially ^{%}'ing them over, no easy way to put it. So why don't those who are uber competitive cancel their damn interviews already at places that they know they aren't going to interview at and spread some good fortune. I don't know why everyone is hoarding interviews ( you do not need 17 interviews to match you neurotic a$$hats lol....period. And the later you cancel them the more your just being selfish and not a team player. Rant over
I think that's a rant worth sharing though. It's selfish behavior and it isn't helping anyone to match, only hurting other applicants' chances.
It's particularly worth pointing this problem out now because of the latest charting outcomes data. The 2011 edition showed that in EM, ~100 people ranked 16 or more programs. In the 2014 edition, that number had ballooned up to 237. That's a stupid trend that shouldn't be happening. Once you rank 12 programs, your chances of not matching are ~1%, and it doesn't improve with ranks beyond that. So people are just soaking up interviews needlessly.
That being said, there aren't a lot of spots open in the SOAP/scramble every year, so everything seems to work out.
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Back to the numbers: 16% of US seniors in 2014 ranked 16+ programs. That's a lot higher of a percentage than I thought. If everyone of them just took 12 interviews, that would open up 1000+ more spots.
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Well, the point I am trying to make, is that I can guarantee that applying late to a program is very detrimental. I applied late to a program that many would consider not even worth their time applying to, one that, given my stats would have been very interested to interview me, and I was literally rejected from them less than 24 hours after applying since I applied so late. So that means that programs either get offended by late applicants, or have invited so many people/made their lists already that they dont care about late applicants no matter how competitive they appear on paper.
Thus, in order to avoid missing the boat, it is important to apply to a ton of programs, I am not saying apply to 70, get 40 invites and sit on them.
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I'm confused about this emphasis on getting two departmental SLOEs. So, that means pretty much everyone have to do away rotations? That's ridiculous. What are the actual programs that state they need two of these?
I have one chair SLOE from my home program, and I've been jettisoning interviews as fast as I can. <1/3 of my program do Aways, and our previous EM match lists are fantastic. People do Aways because they want to go a specific program (California programs).
On the other topic, I think I would technically be one of the hoarders, even though I've been slowly sending in some (awkward) cancellations. I think the hard part for me is just with figuring out the logistics/geographics with rearranging time slots. I think the bulk of my cancellations will be made this week.
I have one chair SLOE from my home program, and I've been jettisoning interviews as fast as I can. <1/3 of my program do Aways, and our previous EM match lists are fantastic. People do Aways because they want to go a specific program (California programs).
On the other topic, I think I would technically be one of the hoarders, even though I've been slowly sending in some (awkward) cancellations. I think the hard part for me is just with figuring out the logistics/geographics with rearranging time slots. I think the bulk of my cancellations will be made this week.
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I've got a good system going where once I got to 14 I will cancel one for every program that comes in after that. I try to cancel a month in advance so the program has plenty of time to select someone to interview...
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14 seems high. Is this the magic number for alot of people? I was thinking 12.
i'm going to pile on to the conversation regarding interview hoarding. if the overall trend really is an increase in people ranking 15+ programs or at least going on 15+ interviews (which having met some of my classmates, i'd believe), what impact should we expect that to have on other aspects of match statistics?
for example, if an increasing portion of the relatively static number of interview spots is consumed by one portion of the applicant pool, whom by definition can't be assigned to more than one of the relatively static number of residency placements, what impact does that have on the statistics related to the outcomes of the remainder of the applicant pool? in short, can we logically extrapolate that as this trend persists, the chances of matching with say six or seven programs on a rank list will increase, making the point moot in terms of negative outcomes related to interview hoarding? or would that relative perturbation of the residency placement spots per interview spot be eaten up through dispersion to a growing applicant pool?
for example, if an increasing portion of the relatively static number of interview spots is consumed by one portion of the applicant pool, whom by definition can't be assigned to more than one of the relatively static number of residency placements, what impact does that have on the statistics related to the outcomes of the remainder of the applicant pool? in short, can we logically extrapolate that as this trend persists, the chances of matching with say six or seven programs on a rank list will increase, making the point moot in terms of negative outcomes related to interview hoarding? or would that relative perturbation of the residency placement spots per interview spot be eaten up through dispersion to a growing applicant pool?
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The magic number of 12 (based on CtO) probably applies to a well balanced list. If someone has a unbalanced list (going only to interviews to Indiana, Cincy, Denver, Vandy, Hennepin, Harbor and California schools), I can certainly see the argument for leaning higher.
But the point is pretty moot at this point. Based on historical patterns, magic number right now is always bigger than in four months, as people have interview burnout and burn the remainder of their interviews.
But the point is pretty moot at this point. Based on historical patterns, magic number right now is always bigger than in four months, as people have interview burnout and burn the remainder of their interviews.
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Agreed if you feel like you need to go on 17 interviews but are currently sitting on 20. Cancel those 3 and let other applicants have a shot. Also if you have many uber competetive people canceling interviews later on on the season. That's pigeonholing the month of January for these less competitive people. Synopsis of the story cancel the interview if you aren't going on, period . And with that I wish you all the best good fortune and success in your match. If however you prefer to be an A$$hat ( that's my new word) I will be forced to put a hex on you and bad karma...please don't make me do that
. And with that I wish you all the best good fortune and success in your match. If however you prefer to be an A$$hat ( that's my new word) I will be forced to put a hex on you and bad karma...please don't make me do that 
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Maybe I'm crazy but I don't think calling people neurotic asshats will encourage them to drop their interviews.
Well the truth hurts, I know we are in a politically correct world, but if you are holding onto interviews for the sake of just holding on to them...and then canceling them when it's convenient for you/ being too late in the season to not allow other people to benefit... Well than the phrase fits!
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There are lots of reasons why someone might want to go to more than 12 interviews. Maybe you're couples matching and need more options. Maybe you're not sure what city you want to live in. Maybe you just want to see what they have to offer, since it's tough to get a good idea about a program without rotating or interviewing there. The fact is, this is still a job application. The match makes it a bit more fair, but if people want to keep their options open for whatever reason, that's their prerogative.
I totally agree with you! My anger/disappointment is directed at those candidates that are holding onto interviews (far more than they realistically and logistically can interview at) that have very little to zero intent of interviewing at. It is my hope that if that's the case you would do the right thing and cancel those interviews in a timely manner. There is zero reason to be holding spots, granted it's your spot to hold...but it's just shotty and selfish. Kudos to those of you who have 17 plus and plan on interviewing at that many (completely excessive in my book) but at least they are intending on interviewing at all those places. If your just lazy and hesitant on canceling programs than that's where my beef is.
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I don't care how timely people cancel interviews, if you're going on more than 15 you're being selfish and actively harming other applicants.
This is coming from someone going on 14 interviews. (Yes I feel very slightly hypocritical)
The hard data shows no added benefit after your 12th rank. Let's add a couple of additional interviews beyond this to placate some of that good old-fashioned off-the-charts med student neuroticism. Anything after that, and you're acting well within your prerogative to be a selfish.. what's the term... a$$hat?
There are probably a few good reasons to go on 30 interviews. Most people have the decency not to.
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There might not be added benefit to *your chances to match* after the 12th rank, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other benefits to it, such as seeing programs more thoroughly, carrying more options when doing the match, etc. It's nobody's job to improve the chances of other applicants, and while it is the honorable thing to do to divest yourself of interviews you know you won't rank highly, nobody owes that to you.
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Tell him what he's won Bob!
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I made the decision to do 12-14... I guess I just ended at 14 for now... no magic number or anything for choosing 14... just what I decided was my limit and I'm doing my best to stick to it now.
I think neuroticism has driven this whole problem we're all seeing since the beginning. Most people I know that are going into EM were encouraged to apply broadly since the field is getting more competitive. I ultimately ended up applying to 36 programs... which looking back on it was way too many and I probably would have been okay applying to 25-30. I think most other people did the same thing... this whole process is so unpredictable and we only get to do it once so I definitely understand why people would apply to a lot. But now we're in a predicament where the same competitive applicant got more invites than they knew what to do with creating a "rate limiting step" in the interview invite equation... I think things will ultimately pan out and people will get the invites that they want... things have just slowed down to a trickle for now.
I think this year is a tough year due to every program using electronic applications. Programs are easier to apply to, thus more applications per program from the same applicant, and interviews being offered to the same applicants for each program. There will be scramble spots available because of this, but that only benefits the lowest percentile applicants, not the average applicants that end up with a backup specialty (peds in my case). Is the risk of scrambling worth not matching into a backup? Not sure, but it sucks to have to make that choice.
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I don't quite understand. CtM seems to indicate that your completely arbitrary number of 12 is 3-4 more than you need to reliably match. But for some reason, you've selected 12 as the number that is "right." Sometimes you're just flaming people who are holding onto interviews for places at which they have no intention of ranking, other times its just everyone with lots of invites. I agree that it's neurotic to hold onto a bunch of invites, but I also know that there are some good reasons for holding onto them. I completely agree with shedding the invites for places you truly don't care about. But throwing names at people who are holding onto a bunch doesn't make people want to do the magnanimous thing and drop invites for places that might be marginal for you and decrease their chances of matching, but could still be in the mix depending on what else comes up. Please don't act like you understand everyone's motivations and that you can look into everyone's heart of hearts and pick out the bad people who are purposefully ****ing over the weaker candidates.Asstarael...spoken like a true gunner. Prime example why I don't like my kind. My kind being medical students that is
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At the end of the day, there are two neurosis on the SDN spectrum. The first is to hold onto interviews just in case one needs them. The second is the feel of persecution that others are unfairly holding onto interviews, something that this thread has swung into most recently. Both are natural human instincts, but both are as neurotic as the other.
Interview begging/pleading is not going to accomplish anything. Cancellations will be coming and most likely a lot of them, and rank lists will be deeper. Interviews dropped off the cliff exactly when I said they would, so perhaps I have some credibility. If you are lacking in interviews, move your current dates up, so you can take advantage of the January cancellations.
Interview begging/pleading is not going to accomplish anything. Cancellations will be coming and most likely a lot of them, and rank lists will be deeper. Interviews dropped off the cliff exactly when I said they would, so perhaps I have some credibility. If you are lacking in interviews, move your current dates up, so you can take advantage of the January cancellations.
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Want some credibility? Elaborate on those statements you made a few pages back. The ones about the applicant pool being much different this year. You dropped those bombs and then went quietly off into the night without an explanation. I for one am still curious what you meant.
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"Interview begging/pleading is not going to accomplish anything"
Are you saying emailing programs to reiterate interest and receive an update on your applications status is pointless? If so, I'd have to strongly disagree, and might go as far as to say that is flat out wrong. My specialty advisor strongly recommends doing it, and I received several interviews almost immediately after sending out emails to programs and was wait listed at several programs that specifically said they had re-reviewed my application after reading my "heartfelt" (as one PD stated) email and thought I deserved a shot.
Are you saying emailing programs to reiterate interest and receive an update on your applications status is pointless? If so, I'd have to strongly disagree, and might go as far as to say that is flat out wrong. My specialty advisor strongly recommends doing it, and I received several interviews almost immediately after sending out emails to programs and was wait listed at several programs that specifically said they had re-reviewed my application after reading my "heartfelt" (as one PD stated) email and thought I deserved a shot.
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I think he means pleading with other applicants to drop interviews, not begging the programs to give one.
Personally, I have 16 ACGME interviews, and a few more dual AOA/ACGME that I already interviewed with that I don't count because they don't exactly prefer that DOs rank them in the NRMP match. However, I am also DO and have below average boards. My magic number is likely 16 or 17. I just can't feel selfish about that guys... If I could feel comfortable at 12 because I knew that the match rate for me would be around 97%, I would give up some of my interviews for any one of you because I know some of you are struggling right now. However, I know everything will work out for all of us in the end.
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Agreed. Completely. Trust the system - it certainly hasn't failed us so far.
Noshie nothing personally but those last 4 interviews you plan on going increases your chances of matching by 1 to 3 percentage points aka you'll match with both number of interviews. It's tough to see my best friend at school only have 5 with pretty good stats, when just 1 or 2 more would bump up his chances of matching by like 20 plus percentage points. You are free to go on as many as you want that's your right and perogitive, but there's got to be some common sense. I'm not competitive at all and have my 12 I see no added benefit to go on a handful more. Once again not a dig at you...it's just hard to get my head to wrap around this fear of not matching therefore the need to go on more that only barely increase your chances. I don't mind being the black sheep of this thread but it's easy to say all things will work out when your sitting on enough interviews to match 2 seperate people lol.
noshie - care to shed some light on how osteopathic student plus below average boards equals sixteen acgme interviews? i'd bet that is an outlier. i understand feeling the need to hedge here and hedge there in an effort to somehow tot up a calculation out of the sky that encapsulates and accounts for any shortcoming, but given that you have identified two of what many would consider to be among the most debilitating application shortcomings, and somehow still grabbed a good number of interviews, i'm surprised you still feel your number of interviews somehow belies reality. you clearly must have some other factors working in your favor, and i'm curious as to what you think those are if you're willing to post. to be clear, i don't care at all how many interviews you or any one else goes on. have at it.
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The problem I have is that my application is not the norm. 4th quartile rank, Step 1-212, Step 2-227, failed 2 courses in first year. I just can't look at the NRMP match data and apply it to myself. Like I said before, even my advisors and mentors said I would be lucky to get even a few interviews... On one hand, I see that my scores are at the very edge of "independent applicants" that have a 50% match rate for my step 1 and 49% match rate for my step 2 (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf, Page 75 and 77), and on the other hand I see that if I can rank 16 contiguous ranks then the DO factor is not a big deal because I will be at the same percentage accepted as MDs applying to EM (pg 73). So... What if people think I am a risk and that I may pull down their inservice averages? If all of my stats were equal to the people that I have been interviewing with, with 12 interviews I should be ok, there would only be a 5% chance that I don't match. But all things are not equal in my case. I have not met one person that has scores as low as mine on the interview trail. And yes, I have asked around.
Im an outlier. I applied broadly. I had great sloes, and had them in well before the application opened. Applied on day one. However, the reason I have a good number of interviews is because of my experiences. In short, I have 7 publications, worked as a college professor for a bit before med school, have a masters in immunology, and I am getting my MBA in my free time as a full time student... Some programs appreciate this diversity, some just want to see the numbers. It is what it is. I worked really hard to get into med school, I applied 3 times and took the MCAT 5 times. I am very grateful to be in the position that I am in, I feel so lucky every single day to be where I am right now. I don't want to have any regrets from this match cycle. Like all of you, I don't want to be worried that I won't match.
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Then why are you going on 12 instead of 8-10?
very interesting, noshie. especially regarding the gross disconnect between your schools advising and your actual invite number. thanks for explaining. i wish you well, though i imagine you won't need any good luck. your type of situation, in which you are essentially wondering whether your candidacy is treated as a long shot that may wow on interview day, along with maybe someone who believes they consistently interview quite poorly, are what i consider the most understandable reasons to force yourself to go on more interviews than most. not that you have to explain yourself to anyone there.
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So there are a couple dates that just opened up at Detroit Receiving. Just a heads up for those that might still be on the wait list for another date.
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People are free to go on however many interviews they want.
Yes, you will probably match if you have 10 interviews. At the same time, you could match at your 15th interview.
There's no proof that the declined interviews are magically going to find the people with 5 interviews. Chances are, they will end up with those who have 9-13 again and again and again. Let's say 100 applicants have 5 interviews and 200 have 10. Easily the 50 or 100 interviews cancelled could fall to people who already have 9+.
Those with 5 or 6 interviews actually have a good chance at matching also. Invite season seems to be coming to an end, the best strategy is to have a good app and play your cards right in interview season (networking, emails, etc.). Calling others selfish for going on their 16 invites is not a good strategy - furthermore, arbitrarily capping interviews at 12 won't automatically result in success for those with few interviews.
Yes, you will probably match if you have 10 interviews. At the same time, you could match at your 15th interview.
There's no proof that the declined interviews are magically going to find the people with 5 interviews. Chances are, they will end up with those who have 9-13 again and again and again. Let's say 100 applicants have 5 interviews and 200 have 10. Easily the 50 or 100 interviews cancelled could fall to people who already have 9+.
Those with 5 or 6 interviews actually have a good chance at matching also. Invite season seems to be coming to an end, the best strategy is to have a good app and play your cards right in interview season (networking, emails, etc.). Calling others selfish for going on their 16 invites is not a good strategy - furthermore, arbitrarily capping interviews at 12 won't automatically result in success for those with few interviews.
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12 is enough interviews to match 2 separate people.
I am failing to understand why exposing yourself to multiple programs and personally getting a feel for those programs is upsetting people. Some are more fortunate than others and are invited to go on more interviews.
Just because you "only need x to match" shouldn't dictate where you interview. If you have an interest, by all means go. You never know where you are going to fit in until you check a place out.
Just because you "only need x to match" shouldn't dictate where you interview. If you have an interest, by all means go. You never know where you are going to fit in until you check a place out.
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People are upset because they aren't getting invites and feel that excuses (blaming others for earning spots) is easier than accepting that they weren't as strong an applicant as others. I haven't had a single invite for over 80 programs - it was my fault. Congrats on all of your interviews and good luck at every single one of them.
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I don't think this is about blaming or guilt tripping people either.
This process is STILL very random at some point. Sure,, the top 15% of applicants are going to excel, but the middle 2/3 of applicants are going to be very close. So yes, you have a responsibility to build a good app. But when many places get 1000 apps, it's not too clear how they pick the 10-15% of apps to interview.
Good luck. Don't give up.
