[2015-2016] EM Rank Order List Thread

[Cinematographer]

Per SDN tradition, here is this year's Rank Order List (ROL) thread. There are a number of ways in which you may participate:

1. By using your SDN account and directly replying to this thread
2. By using your SDN account to private message (PM) @Cinematographer or @TimesNewRoman. Your ROL will be posted anonymously
3. By using the anonymous Google Form created for this thread. No SDN or email account required

Format:

• Include a brief description of your thinking process/priorities you considered to create your rank order list (i.e., 3- vs. 4-year program, community vs. county, location, reputation, residents/faculty, work hours, etc.)
• List the programs you are ranking in their respective numerical order, providing a brief summary of cons/pros you considered for each

Best of luck to everyone!
__________________________
Helpful Links:
Anonymous Google Form
2014-2015 EM Rank Order List Thread
NRMP Registrations, Ranking, and Results (R3) Website

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[deleted547339]

I'm happy to post anonymously for users who don't want to submit their list here.

 

[Cinematographer]

I'm happy to post anonymously for users who don't want to submit their list here.

Not sure if you read the OP. Although I can edit it to add you as a fourth option (we're getting extra paranoid this year)

 

[deleted547339]

Not sure if you read the OP. Although I can edit it to add you as a fourth option (we're getting extra paranoid this year)

My bad. Only skimmed it. I've done this in the past so figured I'd offer. But yes, I now see my offer is redudant.

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location

#1 OSU - I am from Columbus. Cons - not very DO friendly

#2 Akron City - Very DO friendly, my family lives in Akron - It's Akron but I can live with it.

#3 Akron General - Very DO friendly, have family in Akron - It's Akron

#4 Wright State - DO friendly - But it's Dayton

#5 MetroHealth/CC - Great facility - I don't like living in Cleveland

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: A combination of location, fit, and reputation.

#1 Denver: Clear winner for me. I really felt like this was the best fit on interview day. The way each year has its own emphasis made the 4-year curriculum seem worth it. PD is nice. Loved the residents that I met. Reputation as good as any in the field.

#2 Wisconsin: Up and coming program with a great Chair and PD working hard to make this a great program. Tons of new faculty hires from top programs. 3+1 curriculum with the ability to design your own built-in fellowship (that pays closer to an attending in the 4th year). Also has a great flight/HEMS program. Chance to work Badger football games. Madison is a really cool city.

#3 Indiana: Great reputation. Really like the residents and faculty on interview day. 3-year curriculum with opportunities to explore areas of interest within EM. Indianapolis is a great city. Really nice facilities.

#4 Ohio State: Program seemed similar to Indiana to me, in a good way. Great fit. 3-year program. I would be very happy here. Columbus is also a really nice city.

#5 Northwestern: Loved the program. Loved the PD. Don't love all of the travel required. 4-year program with a heavy emphasis on critical care (11 months). Chicago is great, but expensive.

#6: Alameda County/Highland

#7: UPMC

I would be happy to end up at any of the above programs.

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this List: Location, acuity, autonomy, faculty, leadership, resident personalities.

#1 Temple University Hospital - Outstanding leadership (McNamara is godhead), acuity is tops (great mix of medical and trauma), plenty of procedures, EM are only residents in BICU, EM has its own team on MICU, rotate at St. Chris and CHOP for peds, good relationship with trauma (not segregated - you go to traumas on ED months, and rotate on the service as PGY1 &2.) No floor months. Residents and faculty are some of the most enthusiastic and enjoyable folks. Apparently they have some of the best (if not the best) resident satisfaction scores in the hospital.

#2 Christiana Care - Rotated here. GREAT acuity. Procedures are plentiful and likely MUCH more than many places, especially when it comes to ortho (no residency), saw a lot of fracture reductions performed by residents after phone consultation w/ ortho (I got to help reduce a tri-mal fracture). No filler in curriculum. EM runs level 2 traumas, surgery runs the level 1s. EM always has airway. Good US experience. Biggest downside is that its in DE, but many resident commute from Philly. Faculty were great, though they may not be as well known as other places, they are no less capable. It was really tough to choose between them and TUH.

#3 Univ. of Pitt - Outstanding faculty, good variety of ED sites, lots of research if that's your bag. Great EMS exposure. Acuity seemed great. Lean curriculum (no floor months). Got along great with residents, a fun and smart bunch. Pittsburgh seemed like a great city. Good opportunity for fellowships in house.

#4 University of Maryland - Faculty and curriculum are highlights. Good variety of rotation sites. Not so into the segregation of trauma, but I'm told it is high yield and the anesthesia rotation sounded unmatched. No floor months. Great opportunity for fellowships in house. Downside is lots of 12/hr shifts.

#5 Cooper University Hospital - Liked residents and faculty. Good curriculum. Acuity seems great.

#6 and Beyond – In order: UMass, Baystate (super under-rated program, but location not good for wife), Maine Medical Center (impressed with everything), UConn (a lot of 2 wk offservice rotations, but otherwise seems like a great place to train, likely very under-rated 2/2 location), Drexel (talk about a fall from the glory of MCP... many residents were open about their disdain for their schedule, some of the attendings, and relationship w/ other services. Apparently many faculty followed McNamara to TUH and they never recovered. They used to have an EMS fellowship and US fellowship, but they've both gone away due to lack of care from admin. The previous PD was forced to step down and they're on probabation essentially for poor resident satisfaction and malignancy within the admin. With a good overhaul, this could become a great program again, and hopefully it will happen as they've produced some powerhouse EM docs, and it was truly one of the pioneering residencies in EM).

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this List: As a single with no family ties where I go to med school (US MD), I created my rank list based on multiple criteria. These criteria (in order of importance) were (1) interactions with residents/faculty aka perceived "fit"; (2) reputation of program/faculty; (3) career paths of recent graduates; (4) location/recreational opportunities; (5) academic feel of the program. I had no preference in terms of community vs. county, 3 vs. 4 year programs.

#1 Denver Health: Fantastic interview experience here. This is a very strong, well-known EM program that trains some of the best ER docs out there. The PGY4s and even PGY3s are rockstars and pretty much set a standard for what I want to accomplish as a clinician. I rotated here and can tell you that while the hours are rough, the program fits in no way the definition of "malignant."

2# BIDMC/Harvard Medical School Program: Best interview experience; felt a "warm fuzzy" feeling that was either a GERD flare up or what people call a gut feeling (either way it's GI related, I guess). I all seriousness, this program is very resident-oriented and their curriculum was the most impressive I encountered on the interview trail. They obviously have a ton of resources and graduates go into whatever niche of EM they are interested in.

#3 Carolinas Medical Center: This program get's a lot of love on SDN so I have not much to add. They do have a lot of off-service rotations (much like Denver Health), but that is just a minor negative when you look at the whole picture. Would be *almost* as equally thrilled to match here if I don't match at my #1.

#4 Highland/Alameda Health: Pros: Amazing clinical training/teaching, great reputation, ED is the strongest department in hospital, great salary and benefits, strong social justice component was a surprise. Cons: Weaker off-service rotations, insane cost of living relative to where I live currently.

#5 LSU (New Orleans Program): Went there for my first interview thinking it would be just for practice/to get comfortable interviewing, but ended up loving it. The PD was one of the most personable individuals I met on the interview trail and seemed committed to making their already strong program even stronger. The new PD plus their amazing new (and massive) university hospital make me thing this program is headed to become a powerhouse in EM in the not too distant feature. Main cons: 12 hour shifts, not convinced that I want to spend 4 years in NOLA, salary at the lower end of the spectrum compared to most other placed I interviewed at.

#6 Vanderbilt: Obviously a well-known program for its didactics and academic opportunities. Unsure about workload, and I'm personally not a fan of Nashville, dislike country music, etc. This is one of those places I would love to rank higher, but the location wasn't for me.

#7 Orlando Health: Super happy residents and overall a great interview experience there. Left feeling very impressed by them, but much like Vandy, I didn't like the location.

#8 Cincinnati: Rotated here. Though the residents were worked a bit too hard here and despite my favorable rotation experience there, Cincinnati is one of the least culturally-rich, racially-diverse places I have been to and it felt like going here fore residency would be a big step in the wrong direction in terms. PD is so, so cool.

The rest of my rank list in no particular order: Christiana care, Palmetto health, UNC, JHU, Baylor College of Medicine.

 

[DrNoNo2016]

Can anyone speak about the Detroit programs? Just curious to see if anyone is having as much trouble ranking them as I am

 

[StephBee]

Can anyone speak about the Detroit programs? Just curious to see if anyone is having as much trouble ranking them as I am

I'm equally having trouble between a Detroit program and a Baltimore one.

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: I am including brief stats bc It was nice to see last year. DO student. 255/273 3 acgme aways, all honors. Geography >> interaction w/ residents & faculty > reputation.

1) Cook County: amazing pathology, Chicago is home, street credit in the EM world. 4 year, I felt that there was a lot of hand holding up to the middle of the PGY2 year.

2)Northwestern: PD gave the best sell of the interview trail. Grads get the "premier" jobs in Chicago. Still trying to figure out what that means. Also a 4 year program.

3) UIC (Chicago): Absolutely loved the interview day. Super energetic residents that are very devoted to the program. Dr. Snow and Dr. Bunny seem have a great vision for the program and are constantly changing things based on feedback.

4) Hennepin: Fell in love on interview day. Loved the twin cities. Strongest US experience I saw amoung the programs interviewed at. County hospital that has a lot of money.

5) Indiana: Enough has been said about Indi. I will say that the faculty was amoung the most pleasant to work with out of my 3 EM aways. Location is solely the only reason it's not higher.

6 and beyond:

Medical college Wisconsin: Milwaukee seemed great, less congested than Chicago.

Houston- very underrated program. Busiest level 1 trauma in the country.

Orlando- like Orlando more than I thought I would. Residents were awesome. I enjoyed talking with the PD. seems like a very solid program. I would be happy at the above 8, past this I will feel as if I failed but at least I matched if I do.

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location + quality of program + gut feel.

1) Maryland: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, fun residents and night out. - travel to DC, trauma only on trauma, hours, baltimore.

2) Pitt: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, city fun. no significant cons.

3) Cook County: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, city fun. - scut, hours don't improve as you go along.

4) Denver: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, city fun. - 4 years.

5) Carolinas

6 and beyond: Ohio State (lack of trauma, weird dinner, consult heavy) Metrohealth (long hours, only 1 resident at dinner), Indy (great place, great training, middle of no where), Wisconsin (cold but awesome), Cinci (4 year thing wasn't well justified on interview but reputation makes it a stellar place), Akron Summa (fun program but in Akron, if this was anywhere else it would be top 5), UCLA (loved Cali but I am from PA, hard to leave family), Orlando (warm and fun), Hopkins, DMC, Umass, LSU, Beaumont.

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location- wanted a fun and exciting city as well as general vibe about the residents (if I would like them or not) and how well I connected with the program leadership. The biggest factor was fit and if I could see myself working there.

1) Temple University - just had a warm and fuzzy feeling here, philly is amazing. Was a pretty obvious decision for me. You know when you walk out of an interview day and everything around is butterflies and rainbows, Well that was this for me.

2) NYU - obvious has amazing rotations with incredible toxicology. Manhattan is also pretty awesome.

3) UCONN - absolutely loved the residents, my kinda crowd. Both the residents and faculty were some of the most down to earth and funniest people I've met on the trail. Was always a huskies fan so it just made sense lol.

4) Denver - they work hard but they play equally if not harder. Denver is an amazing city, so much to do and see. The residents were all pretty chill just not sure about 4 year programs.

5) Mount Sinai NYC- an amazing program with great fellowships and didactics. Once again NYC has my heart.

6) Albany - a huge fan of there schedule, their PD was amazing and the residents look like some of the most laid back and well rested in my trails. Albany is not my ideal city, but lake George and the Saratoga springs, lake placid and all the outdoors and actives that your mind could think of. Albany Medical center is huge and very well respected. (Some of the hottest nurses I've met as well lol.

7)Henry Ford - Detroit is not as bad as people make it out to be, plus the training here is up there with the best of them.

8) Rochestor/strong - Defintiely loved the program, the faculty were all super nice and residents seemed to be some of the happiest I met on the trail. Ranked higher than upstate bc Rochestor seemed to be a nicer city with nicer people.

9)Christiana - beautiful hospital, with unopposed residencies, but newark Delaware just doesn't seem to be my idea of a fun area to live.

10)Maryland - some people love it but I wasn't totally convinced, shock trauma is amazing but not sure how I like having separate trauma months. The PD seemed nice but totally didn't vibe with him. Residents def work hard with all there 12 hours shifts, you can tell they were a little tired.

11)Jacobi-Montefiore - Bronx you will obviously see good pathology. The ED was definitely uninspiring, not a huge fan of 4 year programs. Had too many floor months that just seemed like busy work that served no purpose.

12) Rutgers NJMS - got a weird vibe on the interview day from both the residents and faculty. Residents looked pretty tired and overworked. Ranking it for the sole purpose of having another rank. This was the only interview where I actually didn't like pathetic assistant Program director, she was rude, asked questions that clearly violated nrmp rules, amd basically put an entire black cloud over this program. The only reason it's not last is that it's near NYC and have family ties to NJ.

13) Morristown NJ- everyone was nice on the interview day, but the place seemed way too community for me. They are not technically a level one trauma center, so via the grapevine heard that traumas here are pretty lackluster. It's in a very affluent part of NJ, so I truly do question the diversity and scope of there pathology. Plus Morris county is not the most hoping part of the country to live in. PD was chill, but got the impression that he wasn't sticking around long, and that there would be new Progesm Leadership relatively soon, which I'm not crazy about.

14)Georgetown- felt pretty nice coming out of this program, they clearly have there stuff in order. Wasn't a fan of the traffic, lived in DC for undergrad...obviously and amazing city truly is, but looking for a new experience.

15) SUNY Upstate- the program seemed to be established, no floor months, I think the biggest deterant is that I didn't really mesh well with the faculty and that syracuse is definitely not the most exciting place to be. The winters are brutal (as per the residents, and even faculty). Snow 8 months out of the year, with the other 4 being overcast doesn't sound like my cup of tea. One perk is their peds guy, but apparently he is retiring within the year, so there goes that benefit. The chief resident was the only guy I could see myself being friends and grabbing a drink with, and considering he won't be there next year, there goes that.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

It's funny how many people seemed to have a negative experience with a "certain" female Assistant program director from Rutgers NJMS lol. There must have been 20 people on the trail that I've met that were open about how negative of a vibe that they got from that program, and I'm rightfully so in the same camp as those others...additionally, there seems to be a new feel from many friends applying to EM that Temple is making a huge name for themselves in the EM Residency program world and rightfully so, Dr. McNamara was pretty awesome. I have a few more interviews to go on, but I'll def be adding my rank list by the end of this month .
Ps folks, remember that other peoples rank lists shouldn't affect or influence your rank list, the ranking is in your favor...aka if 40 people rank temple or cook county first doesn't mean that you shouldn't either if you loved it and wanted it number one. Don't try to out smart the system, just due what you like and it should hopefully work out in your favor .

 

[LostinLift]

It's funny how many people seemed to have a negative experience with a "certain" female Assistant program director from Rutgers NJMS lol. There must have been 20 people on the trail that I've met that were open about how negative of a vibe that they got from that program, and I'm rightfully so in the same camp as those others...additionally, there seems to be a new feel from many friends applying to EM that Temple is making a huge name for themselves in the EM Residency program world and rightfully so, Dr. McNamara was pretty awesome. I have a few more interviews to go on, but I'll def be adding my rank list by the end of this month .
Ps folks, remember that other peoples rank lists shouldn't affect or influence your rank list, the ranking is in your favor...aka if 40 people rank temple or cook county first doesn't mean that you shouldn't either if you loved it and wanted it number one. Don't try to out smart the system, just due what you like and it should hopefully work out in your favor .

Exactly. Posting them here is fun for current applicants and is very helpful for future applicants!

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Family-friendly, proximity to family, friendliness/happiness of residents, "warm fuzzy" gut feeling, availability of fellowships, moonlighting. Overall would be happy matching period.

1) Wake Forest: people were friendly and down to earth, city surprisingly up and coming with lots to offer outdoors/entertainment etc, low Col. I felt the "I want to come here really badly" feeling. Old program (since 1973) Neg: old ED that they said will be renovated sometime in the near future, seemed very much like an earn your stripes before you get to do a lot type of place, as opposed to "being thrown to the wolves." But that's really just speculation and not proven since I did not rotate here or anything.

2) Birmingham: established hospital system, get to run a pod during intern year, probably had the nicest people I've met on the interview trail, surprised at how cool the city was, had outdoors, cool downtown areas, great places to rent buy near downtown etc. moonlighting, PD very personable cons: Having to tell people I'm going to Alabama newer program (2001). Med/surge more well known from UAB.

3) Palmetto: fantastic program with great people, get to go to Hawaii, Dr. Cook one of the coolest PDs I met on the trail, moonlighting pretty good. Well respected program in the SE. Cons: not too impressed by city, city's motto is "famously hot" lol.

4) Dallas (UTSW): not ranked higher for me because far from family but loved the program, cool city, residents were friendly, not terrible hours even intern year. Opportunity to go to New Zealand, good benefits for living in a big city. Cons: far from family, mostly county (want some good community experience too), huge class size can lead to cliques, another con is I feel like I did not interview well here at all ha.

5) Kentucky (Lexington): seems like an up and coming residency, great clinical training, did away here and loved way ER set up. Overall friendly people. Cons: couple interactions with off service docs that were kind of snoody towards er docs, do some scut, Lexington was so so for me.

6) UNC: great program, awesome PD, Tintanelli, get to do great community experience in Raleigh. Cons: had a few conversations with residents and faculty that rubbed me the wrong way but still most people were awesome.

 

[Cinematographer]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location, intensity of the training, a good mix of county or county-feel plus academics. I prefer county programs and I come from a home school with a 4-year county program that I love so I guess I am biased in favor of this type of program--more than I realized before making my rank list and realizing my top 5 are all 4 year programs.

1) NYU: Pros: in NYC, great reputation, county program with really interesting pathology, great tox which I am interested in as a fellowship. Cons: very little trauma, expensive cost of living, other subspecialties not as well-represented as tox.

2) Cook County: Pros: in Chicago where I am from and family is near by, county program with interesting patients/pathology, great trauma experience. Cons: 2 months of medicine floor, not an academic program.

3) Jacobi/Montefiore: Pros: well-established county program in the Bronx, see lots of interesting stuff, great tox. Cons: sites not very accessible by public transit.

4) Penn: pros: really liked the PD, even though it is an academic "ivory tower" kind of institution, I got the impression they see many underserved pts as well since there is no county hospital in Philly, all rotation sites are in downtown Philly, no need to have a car! Great critical care and peds, cost of living is cheap compared to other places I am looking at. Cons: Philly isn't my first choice of city, maybe a little heavy on the academic/tertiary care side of things.

5) University of Washington: pros: mix of county + academic program, location in Seattle, cons: new program with only 1 class of 5 residents who have graduated so far, ED still has old-fashioned feel as it is divided into medicine and surgery sides, and until very recently was surgery-run. They emphasized that they are successfully changing the culture of the institution, but I got the impression that EM gets less respect here than many other institutions, still being the new kids on the block.

6 and beyond: SUNY Downstate, Stony Brook, UConn, UVA, Northwestern, New York Presbyterian, Resurrection (Chicago).

 

[Cinematographer]

Will be updating thread later tonight, but I'm posting now just to remind folks that everyone can post here to comment/ask for help/feedback.

Let's prevent this year's thread from being just me posting ROLs without any other SDN users commenting or participating!

 

[erasthrowaway328382382]

Couple of questions/concerns/fears

I really liked Penn but I felt the ED was a little quiet when I visited. Do they have adequate volume for good training?

I know NYU is known for not seeing much trauma, is it terribly infrequent (i.e. residents dont know how to handle it)?

I heard that now that ACS is certifying trauma centers in NYC there might be some changes. Anyone know if this will make a big difference in trauma exposure in NYC programs?

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

I always laugh when people rank programs based on there fear of not seeing trauma. Trauma is important but it only account s for 5-10 percent of any doctors knowledge if that...not to mention that it's all algorithms lol. You will be proficient in trauma where ever you go for EM. Choose a program because of 3 vs 4, location, vibe, prestige etc, but please not based on trauma exposure It is Important don't get me wrong, but I don't think it should make or break your decision on a program especially a program such as NYU.

 

[chichi52]

Anyone get a feel of the residents and general vibe at Kaiser SD? I didn't get to rotate there so I'm basing it all off of interview day

 

[Random31]

I always laugh when people rank programs based on there fear of not seeing trauma. Trauma is important but it only account s for 5-10 percent of any doctors knowledge if that...not to mention that it's all algorithms lol. You will be proficient in trauma where ever you go for EM. Choose a program because of 3 vs 4, location, vibe, prestige etc, but please not based on trauma exposure It is Important don't get me wrong, but I don't think it should make or break your decision on a program especially a program such as NYU.

I agree, but there is something to be said for doing proceedures (tubes and lines) in a trauma or resuscitation setting rather than a controlled setting.

 

[mmich369]

Couple of questions/concerns/fears

I really liked Penn but I felt the ED was a little quiet when I visited. Do they have adequate volume for good training?

I know NYU is known for not seeing much trauma, is it terribly infrequent (i.e. residents dont know how to handle it)?

I heard that now that ACS is certifying trauma centers in NYC there might be some changes. Anyone know if this will make a big difference in trauma exposure in NYC programs?

Almost everywhere I interviewed seemed quiet on interview day as most of the time we were touring the ED during the quiet morning hours so I'm not sure what time of day you toured Penn. also have to agree with last couple posts about trauma. A lot of residents say after you get comfortable with traumas they become a nuisance and a time suck. Besides you will get required trauma experience at every EM program.

 

[canigetawhatwhat]

I agree, but there is something to be said for doing proceedures (tubes and lines) in a trauma or resuscitation setting rather than a controlled setting.

Im about to graduate a program that hardly does tube and lines during trauma codes (but plenty in resus)

I feel very confident with my procedural skills.

No matter where you go, you will learn the bread and butter skills of EM (RSI, lines, arthros, chest tubes, para, lacs, reductions, etc.)

 

[alpinism]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this List: As a single with no family ties where I go to med school (US MD), I created my rank list based on multiple criteria. These criteria (in order of importance) were (1) interactions with residents/faculty aka perceived "fit"; (2) reputation of program/faculty; (3) career paths of recent graduates; (4) location/recreational opportunities; (5) academic feel of the program. I had no preference in terms of community vs. county, 3 vs. 4 year programs.

1# BIDMC/Harvard Medical School Program: Best interview experience; felt a "warm fuzzy" feeling that was either a GERD flare up or what people call a gut feeling (either way it's GI related, I guess). I all seriousness, this program is very resident-oriented and their curriculum was the most impressive I encountered on the interview trail. They obviously have a ton of resources and graduates go into whatever niche of EM they are interested in. Dream program.

#2 Carolinas Medical Center: This program get's a lot of love on SDN so I have not much to add. They do have a lot of off-service rotations (much like Denver Health), but that is just a minor negative when you look at the whole picture. Would be *almost* as equally thrilled to match here if I don't match at my #1.

#3 Denver Health: Fantastic interview experience here. This is a very strong, well-known EM program that trains some of the best ER docs out there. The PGY4s and even PGY3s are rockstars and pretty much set a standard for what I want to accomplish as a clinician. I rotated here and can tell you that while the hours are rough, the program fits in no way the definition of "malignant."

#4 Highland/Alameda Health: Pros: Amazing clinical training/teaching, great reputation, ED is the strongest department in hospital, great salary and benefits, strong social justice component was a surprise. Cons: Weaker off-service rotations, insane cost of living relative to where I live currently.

#5 LSU (New Orleans Program): Went there for my first interview thinking it would be just for practice/to get comfortable interviewing, but ended up loving it. The PD was one of the most personable individuals I met on the interview trail and seemed committed to making their already strong program even stronger. The new PD plus their amazing new (and massive) university hospital make me thing this program is headed to become a powerhouse in EM in the not too distant feature. Main cons: 12 hour shifts, not convinced that I want to spend 4 years in NOLA, salary at the lower end of the spectrum compared to most other placed I interviewed at.

#6 Vanderbilt: Obviously a well-known program for its didactics and academic opportunities. Unsure about workload, and I'm personally not a fan of Nashville, dislike country music, etc. This is one of those places I would love to rank higher, but the location wasn't for me.

#7 Orlando Health: Super happy residents and overall a great interview experience there. Left feeling very impressed by them, but much like Vandy, I didn't like the location.

#8 Cincinnati: Rotated here. Though the residents were worked a bit too hard here and despite my favorable rotation experience there, Cincinnati is one of the least culturally-rich, racially-diverse places I have been to and it felt like going here fore residency would be a big step in the wrong direction in terms. PD is so, so cool.

The rest of my rank list in no particular order: Christiana care, Palmetto health, UNC, JHU, Baylor College of Medicine.

Re: LSU-NO - They have one some of the best moonlighting opportunities out there. If anything you'd probably be making well above average in salary.

 

[alpinism]

Posted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location + quality of program + gut feel.

1) Maryland: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, fun residents and night out. - travel to DC, trauma only on trauma, hours, baltimore.

2) Pitt: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, city fun. no significant cons.

3) Cook County: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, city fun. - scut, hours don't improve as you go along.

4) Denver: + reputation, faculty, rotations, research, city fun. - 4 years.

5) Carolinas

6 and beyond: Ohio State (lack of trauma, weird dinner, consult heavy) Metrohealth (long hours, only 1 resident at dinner), Indy (great place, great training, middle of no where), Wisconsin (cold but awesome), Cinci (4 year thing wasn't well justified on interview but reputation makes it a stellar place), Akron Summa (fun program but in Akron, if this was anywhere else it would be top 5), UCLA (loved Cali but I am from PA, hard to leave family), Orlando (warm and fun), Hopkins, DMC, Umass, LSU, Beaumont.

I'd consider this a huge red flag FWIW. Especially with their reputation.

 

[alpinism]

Couple of questions/concerns/fears

I really liked Penn but I felt the ED was a little quiet when I visited. Do they have adequate volume for good training?

I know NYU is known for not seeing much trauma, is it terribly infrequent (i.e. residents dont know how to handle it)?

I heard that now that ACS is certifying trauma centers in NYC there might be some changes. Anyone know if this will make a big difference in trauma exposure in NYC programs?

Penn sees about 64K/yr which is not bad but is a little below average for EM programs.

You'll see very little trauma at NYU. Manhattan is just too safe for penetrating trauma and there are no major highways for blunt trauma. Not to mention they have to share what little trauma they do get with NYP Cornell, Mt Sinai St Lukes, and Harlem Hospital Center. That's why Mt Sinai residents go to Elmhurst and SLR residents go to Maryland for their trauma exposure. Overall unless you're at Jacobi, Barnabas, Lincoln, Elmhurst, Kings, or Brookdale I wouldn't expect to see much trauma on a daily basis.

 

[Random31]

Im about to graduate a program that hardly does tube and lines during trauma codes (but plenty in resus)

I feel very confident with my procedural skills.

No matter where you go, you will learn the bread and butter skills of EM (RSI, lines, arthros, chest tubes, para, lacs, reductions, etc.)

Agree, I feel I would be confident coming out of any residency program

 

[deleted547339]

Will be updating thread later tonight, but I'm posting now just to remind folks that everyone can post here to comment/ask for help/feedback.

Let's prevent this year's thread from being just me posting ROLs without any other SDN users commenting or participating!

Hey now. What are you saying about what I've done in previous years?

 

[Saminto]

Penn sees about 64K/yr which is not bad but is a little below average for EM programs.

You'll see very little trauma at NYU. Manhattan is just too safe for penetrating trauma and there are no major highways for blunt trauma. Not to mention they have to share what little trauma they do get with NYP Cornell, Mt Sinai St Lukes, and Harlem Hospital Center. That's why Mt Sinai residents go to Elmhurst and SLR residents go to Maryland for their trauma exposure. Overall unless you're at Jacobi, Barnabas, Lincoln, Elmhurst, Kings, or Brookdale I wouldn't expect to see much trauma on a daily basis.

I rotated at Bellevue/NYU, and it is true that they see very little trauma, but I think that the residents are prepared for it when it comes their way. Most of the traumas seem to be bicyclists/pedestrians struck (usually at low velocity), and the drunk people falling off subway platforms and occasionally getting run over by trains. The only downside is that when the rare traumas do come through, the trauma slot becomes a veritable circus, with even the receptionists and PA's crowding in for a look. This just makes it hard to move around, and it seems like it is a little harder to get procedures, just because there are so many people who want them and you have to be more aggressive about it.

 

[Jlaw]

You'll see very little trauma at NYU. Manhattan is just too safe for penetrating trauma and there are no major highways for blunt trauma. Not to mention they have to share what little trauma they do get with NYP Cornell, Mt Sinai St Lukes, and Harlem Hospital Center. That's why Mt Sinai residents go to Elmhurst and SLR residents go to Maryland for their trauma exposure. Overall unless you're at Jacobi, Barnabas, Lincoln, Elmhurst, Kings, or Brookdale I wouldn't expect to see much trauma on a daily basis.

NY has become a lot safer in general. When I rotated in the bronx I remember some senior residents and attendings bemoaning the fact that traumas had really started to drop off in the past few years as NY tightened up on illegal guns, gangs, etc.

 

[TheComebacKid]

From what I've heard and learned on the trail, Kings County is one of the very few programs in NY that sees any real degree of trauma.

NYU/Bellevue was amazing though. What they lack in trauma they make up with some of the best toxicology training (and the father of toxicology himself). Also really strong with ultrasound, global health, etc. Bellevue from the sounds of it has some really medically sick patients, and the city of New York really pours most of it's resources into Bellevue to make it "THE hospital" for NYC (or at least Manhattan).

 

[Cinematographer]

No new ROLs submitted over past two days. Google Form is still open. Or send a PM to @TimesNewRoman or @Cinematographer

 

[Cinematographer]

Hey now. What are you saying about what I've done in previous years?

A little chitchat never hurt anyone (I think)

 

[Saminto]

From what I've heard and learned on the trail, Kings County is one of the very few programs in NY that sees any real degree of trauma.

NYU/Bellevue was amazing though. What they lack in trauma they make up with some of the best toxicology training (and the father of toxicology himself). Also really strong with ultrasound, global health, etc. Bellevue from the sounds of it has some really medically sick patients, and the city of New York really pours most of it's resources into Bellevue to make it "THE hospital" for NYC (or at least Manhattan).

Lincoln sees more trauma than Kings for sure, but those might be the only 2 that see a significant amount. I am curious about the amount at Jacobi/Montefiore. They certainly made a big deal about how much trauma they see on the interview day, but everything I've heard from their home students, etc seems to indicate otherwise. Anyone rotate there or know more about it?

 

[deleted547339]

Lincoln sees more trauma than Kings for sure, but those might be the only 2 that see a significant amount. I am curious about the amount at Jacobi/Montefiore. They certainly made a big deal about how much trauma they see on the interview day, but everything I've heard from their home students, etc seems to indicate otherwise. Anyone rotate there or know more about it?

As a service to all med students, I would like to re-state what has been stated 100 times by more senior members. Trauma is the easiest part of your job as an emergency physician. Trauma seems amazing as a med student. It's pretty cool as an intern. It's not bad as a junior resident. It is irritating and a time suck as a senior resident. The only logical progression from this is that is becomes a med-mal liability as an attending on a largely uninsured population that sucks up massive amount of nursing resources, stops up the whole department and puts you and the rest of the staff at risk given the possibility of invasive procedures and unruly patients. Not to mention the fact that at almost every academic ED, you have gen surg residents who somehow feel like they know how to manage trauma outside of the OR even though they spend very little time on trauma self-study and will likely never deal with a trauma patient again after residency.

All of that is not to mention that even at very trauma heavy centers most trauma is blunt and most trauma is non-op. Oh, and trauma surgeons are everyones favorite person to consult.

Focus on what places will see the sickest medical patients, they will stretch your brain further.

<rant over>

Man, that felt good to let out.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

Any hidden gem kind of programs that people found on the trail?! I think one that was surprisingly delightful was Staten Island and the other for me was Jefferson.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

The busiest trauma center in NYC isn't that busy relative to many others. The city is served by the same number of trauma centers as it was in the early 90s when it had around 2000 murders per year (now in the 300s). Whatever. You'll learn to work up trauma and manage trauma in the ED. I do think the one benefit to a place that has high acuity trauma is possibility for doing crash central lines (without US), chest tubes, and intubations. Other than that and the initial resuscitation, my number of ****s-given precipitously drops. Given that so many hospitals in NYC have >100,000 ED visits, you'll get more than your share of sick patients, especially if the dept. is segregated by acuity.

The one thing I'd like to see people stop harping on is the "county" hospital. Sure, "county hospital" paints a picture for us and others, but the reality is that you can easily get a "county" experience at a non-county hospital. You can even go to a real county hospital and get an ivory tower, quarternary hospital experience that is nothing like what one would think of a "county" hospital.

My city closed its only county hospital in the early 70s. But, I guarantee you that you will get a "county" experience at number of the hospitals here and an experience that will probably be no less (if not more) "county" than a number of the county hospitals mentioned already.

 

[mrcoolice]

Any hidden gem kind of programs that people found on the trail?! I think one that was surprisingly delightful was Staten Island and the other for me was Jefferson.

Don't think it's a hidden gem per se but I loved Maricopa. It was my favorite program I interviewed at that I hadn't rotated at.

 

[StephBee]

Any hidden gem kind of programs that people found on the trail?! I think one that was surprisingly delightful was Staten Island and the other for me was Jefferson.

East Virginia for me was surprisingly awesome

 

[normtheniner]

East Virginia for me was surprisingly awesome

Was definitely in my top 3 last year. Great area, friendly residents and PD.

 

[StephBee]

Was definitely in my top 3 last year. Great area, friendly residents and PD.

Yeah it's going to be my top 3 for straight EM. Haven't sussed lout where in the top 3 yet

 

[Fox800]

Any hidden gem kind of programs that people found on the trail?! I think one that was surprisingly delightful was Staten Island and the other for me was Jefferson.

UT San Antonio stole my heart. A newer program with a lot to like.

 

[Cinclus]

I was blown away by JPS in Fort Worth. Great program, very much free of nonsense. Happiest residents ever. Super nice faculty. Everyone is very enthusiastic. Gorgeous facilities. The fact that accommodations were provided certainly didn't hurt, either. I think it is becoming less "hidden," but it is a relatively new program.

 

[mmich369]

Any hidden gem kind of programs that people found on the trail?! I think one that was surprisingly delightful was Staten Island and the other for me was Jefferson.

I think Memphis TN is already a fantastic program even though they will only match their second class this March. Amazing pathology, get ridiculous autonomy off the bat, friendly residents, some awesome faculty (Dr Brady who was main director of 24/7/365) which if you haven't seen yet y'all need to see it it's very inspiring and makes you proud to be going into EM. I think in 5 or so years people will consider this one of the great programs of the SE

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

It's been relatively quiet for programs that I thought were huge...Utah, Oregon, wash u, unc, vandy. I'm surprised not many people are loving these and ranking them higher up...or they are but they just aren't vocal on this forum lol?!
Ps...I fully understand that these are not hidden gems, my curiosity is in the fact that more people are or aren't ranking these typical powerhouses as number 1 or 2

 

[Cinclus]

It's been relatively quiet for programs that I thought were huge...Utah, Oregon, wash u, unc, vandy. I'm surprised not many people are loving these and ranking them higher up...or they are but they just aren't vocal on this forum lol?!
Ps...I fully understand that these are not hidden gems, my curiosity is in the fact that more people are or aren't ranking these typical powerhouses as number 1 or 2

There seem to be very few lists. Almost none of the programs I will be ranking have appeared so far. I feel like my list still has so much potential to change a little that I don't know if I should add mine yet.

 

[alpinism]

As a service to all med students, I would like to re-state what has been stated 100 times by more senior members. Trauma is the easiest part of your job as an emergency physician. Trauma seems amazing as a med student. It's pretty cool as an intern. It's not bad as a junior resident. It is irritating and a time suck as a senior resident. The only logical progression from this is that is becomes a med-mal liability as an attending on a largely uninsured population that sucks up massive amount of nursing resources, stops up the whole department and puts you and the rest of the staff at risk given the possibility of invasive procedures and unruly patients. Not to mention the fact that at almost every academic ED, you have gen surg residents who somehow feel like they know how to manage trauma outside of the OR even though they spend very little time on trauma self-study and will likely never deal with a trauma patient again after residency.

All of that is not to mention that even at very trauma heavy centers most trauma is blunt and most trauma is non-op. Oh, and trauma surgeons are everyones favorite person to consult.

Focus on what places will see the sickest medical patients, they will stretch your brain further.

<rant over>

Man, that felt good to let out.

I'll just leave this here:

I am trying...sooooo...hard to...hold off from posting in this thread....

....must hold my..tongue... (I suspect people who know me here have already heard enough from me on this topic...and those who don't are probably tired of my ranting posts)

Although I will probably not be able to resist giving a long post on this topic soon, for now I will just say:

1. Trauma is NOT a surgical disease
2. Listen to Billy Mallon: trauma is needed for one's testicles to descend (and ovary equivalent)
3. Programs that RUN every trauma and are FIRST call on every trauma procedure and airway are important to identify...not because trauma is the most difficult part of EM (although it has been minimized way to much in this thread), but because these programs are FIRST call on every ED procedure and RUN the emergency department, which can't be said for many programs
4. Trauma is not ATLS (thank god!), just like ACLS is not the guide for medical resuscitations in the ED...the folks who think that trauma is as easy as 'following' ATLS have not managed trauma beyond the cookbook first 10 minutes, have minimal understanding of trauma critical care, or are old enough to have trained when EM was a specialty that was still just trying to combine the "acute aspects" of other specialties...vs. developing our own skills and knowledge

HH

 

[HumerusBaker]

Can anyone comment on Denver's residents happiness level? Loved the interview but didn't get to meet many residents. Obviously the program has a rep for working insanely hard.... R4s seemed happy but I only met 2. (End of the season,can't really blame them for being burned out too!)

 

[alpinism]

Lincoln sees more trauma than Kings for sure, but those might be the only 2 that see a significant amount. I am curious about the amount at Jacobi/Montefiore. They certainly made a big deal about how much trauma they see on the interview day, but everything I've heard from their home students, etc seems to indicate otherwise. Anyone rotate there or know more about it?

For blunt yes. For penetrating its not even close.

Stop by Kings on Labor day weekend, or as locals like to call it "The Purge."

You'll see more gunshots and stabbings in 3 days than many residencies see in an entire year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/06/nyregion/battlefield-medics-shaped-in-civilian-setting.html

"In 2003, the US Army established a training program at the hospital called the Academy of Advanced Combat Medicine to train reservists in an emergency room that has received 600 cases per year of gunshot and stabbing victims."