[2015-2016] EM Rank Order List Thread

[gogodre]

You are being too neurotic. I feel for u though.

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[Psai]

I have received nice responses from a couple of my top programs too but then some of them ended theirs by saying good luck. What does that mean?! lol Maybe I am too neurotic and reading between the lines? In any case, my wife and I just certified our ROL so let the match god handle the rest.

da f?
They are wishing you good luck, what is difficult to interpret?

 

[deleted547339]

You people are aware that there is another thread for this years match that is NOT devoted to rank lists....right?

 

[wonderbread12]

You people are aware that there is another thread for this years match that is NOT devoted to rank lists....right?

I'm disappointed in the number of rank lists ...seems like people might be holding out until after feb 24 or whatever the day is that rank lists close

 

[TBoneKoko]

I'm disappointed in the number of rank lists ...seems like people might be holding out until after feb 24 or whatever the day is that rank lists close

Nevertheless this thread is up to 309 posts. Gonna set a record.

 

[EMResidency20]

Deleted

 

[LostinLift]

I'll go ahead and post mine without any reasoning unless someone asks.

University of Colorado
UPMC Medical Education
Beth Israel Deaconess
Brown University
Wake Forest University
University of Utah
Christiana Care Health
Maine Medical Center
Mount Sinai (Beth Israel)
Yale-New Haven
SUNY at Stony Brook
North Shore
Georgetown University
University of Washington
New York Presbyterian
Johns Hopkins University
Dartmouth-Hitchcock
University of Connecticut
LIJ

Thank you! Would you mind elaborating on the first 8? I'm interested in most of those.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

Posting my roommates list (doesn't have SDN):

1)Beth Israel-Harvard
2)Yale
3)uconn
4)LIJ Staten Island
5)LIJ Long Island
6)Albany
7)Rochestor
8)Hackensack
9) Jacobi-mont
10)SUNY Upstate
11) Brookdale
12)Lincoln
13) Crozer Chestor

If any questions about the order let me know and I'll forward him the questions

 

[DrJavaSunflower]

Posting my roommates list (doesn't have SDN):

1)Beth Israel-Harvard
2)Yale
3)uconn
4)LIJ Staten Island
5)LIJ Long Island
6)Albany
7)Rochestor
8)Hackensack
9) Jacobi-mont
10)SUNY Upstate
11) Brookdale
12)Lincoln
13) Crozer Chestor

If any questions about the order let me know and I'll forward him the questions

your "rm" and I have the same #1

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

your "rm" and I have the same #1

Haha he's an idiot (i only speak ill of those I love lol)...so i wouldn't worry about him stealing your spot . But he did love the program up there so much potential for research and great training. Plus he always had a thing for Matt Damon and Harvard lol!!

 

[DO2016EM]

Posting my roommates list (doesn't have SDN):

1)Beth Israel-Harvard
2)Yale
3)uconn
4)LIJ Staten Island
5)LIJ Long Island
6)Albany
7)Rochestor
8)Hackensack
9) Jacobi-mont
10)SUNY Upstate
11) Brookdale
12)Lincoln
13) Crozer Chestor

If any questions about the order let me know and I'll forward him the questions

Brookdale above Lincoln, eh?

 

[deleted720339]

I'll go ahead and post mine without any reasoning unless someone asks.

University of Colorado
UPMC Medical Education
Beth Israel Deaconess
Brown University
Wake Forest University
University of Utah
Christiana Care Health
Maine Medical Center
Mount Sinai (Beth Israel)
Yale-New Haven
SUNY at Stony Brook
North Shore
Georgetown University
University of Washington
New York Presbyterian
Johns Hopkins University
Dartmouth-Hitchcock
University of Connecticut
LIJ

Couples matching? Please tell us you didn't go on 19 interviews as an individual applicant

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

Brookdale above Lincoln, eh?

He rotated at Lincoln and honestly thought the Lincoln PD was the wierdest program director let alone doctor he has ever met. He is from Brooklyn New York fell in love with Dr. Rose and while he knows there will prolly be growing pains, the potential for an amazing training there is definitely possible. Dr. Rose was successful at mianonndes and there is no reason to believe he won't be at Brookdale. Plus location I think was his other reason. Brooklyn> south Bronx, and I don't disagree

 

[EMResidency20]

Deleted

 

[medic4lyfe]

Couples matching? Please tell us you didn't go on 19 interviews as an individual applicant

But EM is super competitive this year bro...

 

[EMResidency20]

Deleted

 

[deleted547339]

[QUOTE="EMResidency20, post: 17426802, member: 748688"since MA has high PCP coverage, patients that end up in ED are more sick than average ED.[/QUOTE]

I don't believe this is true. Generally uninsured patients are those that have advanced pathology from failure to seek early care.

 

[deleted720339]

Correct, couples matching!

Phew! Good luck, friend. Got some great programs on your list. Don't think you can go wrong.

 

[BoardingDoc]

I don't believe this is true. Generally uninsured patients are those that have advanced pathology from failure to seek early care.

Disagree. What you're saying is that the lack of primary care breeds sick patients, which is correct. What EMResidency20 was alluding to is the fact that if someone can easily see a PCP instead of going to the ED, then you aren't going to have anywhere near as many primary care patients in the ED. He/She wasn't saying that everyone else is sicker, just that you deal far less with urgent care BS in the ED and so the average acuity is higher.

 

[EMResidency20]

Deleted

 

[EMResidency20]

Phew! Good luck, friend. Got some great programs on your list. Don't think you can go wrong.

Thank you and likewise!

 

[alpinism]

I don't believe this is true. Generally uninsured patients are those that have advanced pathology from failure to seek early care.

What I meant (which BoardingDoc accurately described) was that with higher PCP access it filters out a lot of the run of the mill stuff. The sicker patients comment was just based on that fact and the statistical fact of them admitting almost 50% of the patients they see with like 20% icu admission rate (ballpark numbers, but they were around there).

I've seen this mentioned multiple times in this thread already.

Just a word of caution (I don't know if its the PD telling you this on interview day or you just decided to look up the numbers yourself).

You CANNOT use admission rates or ICU admission rates to accurately judge the acuity of patients at a given hospital.

Specific admission criteria vary widely between different hospitals. There is no set standard nationwide. Some programs have a very low threshold and admit every drunk alcoholic, uncontrolled diabetic, or weak and dizzy elderly patient under the sun while others admit very few patients unless absolutely necessary. In addition, you have to realize that every program calculates percentages differently with some including fast track patients and others only including patients in the main ED. Many programs that see tons of sick patients have low admission percentages because they also see tons of primary care type complaints in fast track. For example, many busy inner city hospitals have admission rates under 25% because of all the fast track patients they see even though they see 2x as many sick patients in their main ED on an average shift.

That being said, looking at ICU admission rates is even more misleading. ICU admissions depend on may factors including hospital specific criteria, nursing capabilities, staffing, and availability. At some places anyone with a DBP above 100 or on a certain medication is going to the unit while at others you're not getting in unless you're on a ventilator. In addition, at some hospitals the ICU is constantly full and ICU level patients get admitted to the floor instead.

Admission rates tell you NOTHING about acuity.

 

[alpinism]

If anything Boston EDs are notorious for their lower acuity due to a healthy well insured patient population and an over saturation of EDs in the city.

Less sick patients + more hospitals = lower acuity.

There are many reasons to go to Harvard for EM residency, wanting to see tons of sick patients isn't one of them.

 

[EMResidency20]

Deleted

 

[namethatsmell]

I disagree for a few reasons.

I agree that admission rates varying within a certain degree doesn't necessarily mean that a place sees more sick patients. If place A admits 18% and place B admits 28%, I would agree one couldn't draw any conclusions but I think when it passes a certain threshold the things you mentioned could account for some but not all the difference. There is without a fact a difference between a place that admits 20% and a place that admits close to 50% and I agree that buried in there is all those factors you mentioned but I disagree that it would account for that substantial of a difference.

Secondly, I disagree with the Boston comment below yours regarding less sick patients. Boston is a encompasses a large population and with access to PCPs patients will present often when their illnesses have reached the point where medical mangament in the outpatient setting is failing and thus are often pretty sick. I'm unsure where the notion that an uninsuranced population somehow results in "sicker" patients (I agree you will see things that normally would not progress to such a degree: ex. AIDS) but people regardless of their access will eventually get super sick. Their volume is lower (56k/year- BIDMC specifically) but a lot of the patients they see are ones that have exhausted outpatient management (CHFers, COPDers, etc.). Also, as mentioned previously, having access to PCPs will skim off a lot of the "fast track" visits thus leaving more, proportionally, sick patients.

There is a difference between seeing an undifferentiated sick patient and a patient with a known GIB being sent in by their PCP. The former will tend to push you and teach you more than the latter.

No knock against Harvard or anywhere else, but it's something a med student picking a residency should consider.

 

[retro]

I have a question for the fellow DO applicants participating in NRMP match. Did I have to let the programs know that I would be withdrawing from the NMS match? Also, I found out yesterday that in MyEras --> Application --> Personal Info --> Match info, I said "yes" I plan to participate in NMS and forgot to switch it to "no." I initially applied to both sides and later decided to withdraw from NMS, and I forgot to change that section of ERAS until yesterday. Does this even matter? Or will the programs be like "oh this guy participated in NMS, didn't match, and is using the NRMP match as a back up" and not consider me seriously?

 

[filhodeinferno]

I disagree for a few reasons.

I agree that admission rates varying within a certain degree doesn't necessarily mean that a place sees more sick patients. If place A admits 18% and place B admits 28%, I would agree one couldn't draw any conclusions but I think when it passes a certain threshold the things you mentioned could account for some but not all the difference. There is without a fact a difference between a place that admits 20% and a place that admits close to 50% and I agree that buried in there is all those factors you mentioned but I disagree that it would account for that substantial of a difference.

Secondly, I disagree with the Boston comment below yours regarding less sick patients. Boston is a encompasses a large population and with access to PCPs patients will present often when their illnesses have reached the point where medical mangament in the outpatient setting is failing and thus are often pretty sick. I'm unsure where the notion that an uninsuranced population somehow results in "sicker" patients (I agree you will see things that normally would not progress to such a degree: ex. AIDS) but people regardless of their access will eventually get super sick. Their volume is lower (56k/year- BIDMC specifically) but a lot of the patients they see are ones that have exhausted outpatient management (CHFers, COPDers, etc.). Also, as mentioned previously, having access to PCPs will skim off a lot of the "fast track" visits thus leaving more, proportionally, sick patients.

You don't know where the notion came from that an uninsured population is sicker? Not sure how that's even debateable.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

More rankyy lists....less chitty chatty (Chris Farley voice)!!!

 

[EMResidency20]

Holy ****. My wording was bad on one of the posts but jesus christ this place is a cesspool. Not posting in this place again. Peace.

 

[Ddrumem]

I have a question for the fellow DO applicants participating in NRMP match. Did I have to let the programs know that I would be withdrawing from the NMS match? Also, I found out yesterday that in MyEras --> Application --> Personal Info --> Match info, I said "yes" I plan to participate in NMS and forgot to switch it to "no." I initially applied to both sides and later decided to withdraw from NMS, and I forgot to change that section of ERAS until yesterday. Does this even matter? Or will the programs be like "oh this guy participated in NMS, didn't match, and is using the NRMP match as a back up" and not consider me seriously?

I just sent a brief email to the coordinators stating that I was participating in the NRMP. Probably not necessary but paranoia coming through.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[421822]

I just sent a brief email to the coordinators stating that I was participating in the NRMP. Probably not necessary but paranoia coming through.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

I just realized I did the same thing. I doubt it is an issue. Should I start emailing program coordinators?

 

[theseeker4]

Holy ****. My wording was bad on one of the posts but jesus christ this place is a cesspool. Not posting in this place again. Peace.

The fact that some people here are disagreeing with you makes this place a "cesspool?" OK

 

[DrJanltor]

Drexel found their PD!

Official email:
Sent on behalf of Dr. Richard J Hamilton, MD, FAAEM, FACMT, FACEP
As our recruitment season comes to a close, we at Drexel EM wanted to provide you with a few updates.
Our current status with the ACGME continues as accreditation with probation as we are still waiting for correspondence from ACGME. I am certain the RRC wanted to hold off on their next review of the program until we named our new Program Director… which leads me to our exciting news!
I could not be more pleased to announce that Dr. Ernie Leber has accepted the position of Program Director, Emergency Medicine! This is a great development for us and puts a demonstrated leader in charge of the training program.
Ernie graduated from our program in 2001 and was recruited right out of residency as one of the core teaching faculty at Hahnemann. From the beginning, Ernie established his style as a bright, capable leader with an easy-going unassuming style. His academic interests are EMS and EM imaging, and his educational activities and scholarship are focused on those topics. He served as Director of University MedEvac from 2005 to 2008. His time as MedEvac director only ended because he relocated to the western suburbs and worked as an EM Attending at Pottstown Memorial Medical Center, as well as Medical Director, Medic 325, Friendship Ambulance Montgomery County, PA. In 2010, I recruited Ernie to return as Chairman of the ED at St. Joseph’s Hospital. Every person that works with Ernie comments on his many strengths – a skilled leader with a composed demeanor, a loyal supporter of his people, and a cheerful, tireless colleague. Ernie has a real passion for teaching and Emergency Medicine and I cannot think of a better choice for Program Director!
You can hear more from Ernie himself on our podcast together at www.emtoxcast.com

and email him directly at [email protected] or tweet your hellos @PhillyEDdoc

 

[wonderbread12]

Drexel found their PD!

Official email:
Sent on behalf of Dr. Richard J Hamilton, MD, FAAEM, FACMT, FACEP
As our recruitment season comes to a close, we at Drexel EM wanted to provide you with a few updates.
Our current status with the ACGME continues as accreditation with probation as we are still waiting for correspondence from ACGME. I am certain the RRC wanted to hold off on their next review of the program until we named our new Program Director… which leads me to our exciting news!
I could not be more pleased to announce that Dr. Ernie Leber has accepted the position of Program Director, Emergency Medicine! This is a great development for us and puts a demonstrated leader in charge of the training program.
Ernie graduated from our program in 2001 and was recruited right out of residency as one of the core teaching faculty at Hahnemann. From the beginning, Ernie established his style as a bright, capable leader with an easy-going unassuming style. His academic interests are EMS and EM imaging, and his educational activities and scholarship are focused on those topics. He served as Director of University MedEvac from 2005 to 2008. His time as MedEvac director only ended because he relocated to the western suburbs and worked as an EM Attending at Pottstown Memorial Medical Center, as well as Medical Director, Medic 325, Friendship Ambulance Montgomery County, PA. In 2010, I recruited Ernie to return as Chairman of the ED at St. Joseph’s Hospital. Every person that works with Ernie comments on his many strengths – a skilled leader with a composed demeanor, a loyal supporter of his people, and a cheerful, tireless colleague. Ernie has a real passion for teaching and Emergency Medicine and I cannot think of a better choice for Program Director!
You can hear more from Ernie himself on our podcast together at www.emtoxcast.com

and email him directly at [email protected] or tweet your hellos @PhillyEDdoc

sort of a red flag that they hired in-house ...should have been someone completely unaffiliated to clean up their mess

 

[Jojokarade]

sort of a red flag that they hired in-house ...should have been someone completely unaffiliated to clean up their mess

Not necessarily. Dr. Leber comes from St. Joe's (One of Drexel's community sites which is closing) so he will be seeing things from more of a fresh perspective. If I'm hearing things right (don't quote me on it), he will now be at Hahnemann Hospital. I spent a month at St. Joe's and specifically moved a lot of my shifts so that I could work with Dr. Leber. He is an amazing ED doc who is very laid back and has a lot of joy for EM. He is well liked by everyone who works with him and I think it is a great move by Drexel.

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: I first need to be close to our house in Metro Detroit, especially with a child at home and one on the way. Pay is a concern, due to having to raise a family. I also am more interested in working at a program that has decent resources, rather than a county-style program where I will be stuck doing things ancillary staff should be doing.

(1) Henry Ford: Great program, good exposure to trauma and very ill patients. Decent exposure to a suburban environment, happy residents, good pay, and they send everyone to Hawaii in the third year for a nice vacation rotation. Everything that happens in the ER is run by the ER staff, not surgery.

(2) St. John Hospital, Detroit, MI: Also a strong program, but with less name recognition than Henry Ford. Actual location means I would be treating a mixture of inner city and suburban patients. Pay is less than Henry Ford, but a nice meal stipend and free lunch on weekdays makes up for a lot of the difference. Fewer perks it seems, but the residents are all very happy.

(3) Beaumont Health system, Royal Oak MI: good program, much more suburban than the Detroit programs. Some exposure to the LifeFlight program, but not as strong as other programs such as St. Vincent Mercy Toledo. Very well supplied hospital, with a lot of resources. No real exposure to the inner-city populations, including the penetrating trauma, but good exposure to blunt trauma. Residents seemed happy. Pay decent.

(4) St. Vincent Mercy, Toledo OH: Weaker program for control of procedures in the ED, though exposure to trauma on the trauma service gives residents enough exposure to trauma procedures, according to the current residents. Weak OB exposure, according to residents and staff. Great LifeFlight program, where residents are actual physicians in charge during the flight, not just passengers deferring to the nurse and paramedic on the flight. The flight program made this a very tempting program to rank more highly, but the overall skills taught and exposure within the hospital seem to be better at the other hospitals.

(5) Detroit Medical Center Receiving Hospital: This is the "bigger name" of the two DMC programs. Decent resources, but a lot less than my choices 1-3. Hospital does have almost every desired specialty in house and ready to answer consults, due to its existence as a tertiary center. Attached to a major children's hospital, one of only two burn centers in the state, and existence as a major academic trauma center means a lot of unique presentations will be seen in this ED. Dedicated ED ancillary staff, strong association with Wayne State University School of Medicine, are pluses. A negative is the pay, significantly below Henry Ford. Residents also seem more stressed and over-worked than my prior choices. I will definitely get great training here if I match here, but the negatives mentioned above mean this is not at the top of my list.

(6) Detroit Medical Center Sinai Grace: same hospital system as Receiving, but a very different environment. This is an inner-city, county-style program, with very limited resources. There has also been a recent exodus from the program by some of the staff due to the new management of the hospital cutting pay, so a lot of the attendings are very new to the job. Staffing is poor, with a lot of tasks such as blood draws, stocking of supplies, taking patients to scans, etc. either taking forever, or the resident has to do it. ED residents have complete control of all codes, activations, and procedures in the ED, which is a big plus, but the residents here seem more over-worked and stressed out than at Receiving. These factors bump this program down below Receiving hospital.

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Family friendly, EMS, Rural.

1) Baylor Scott & White
2) SIU
3) University of Texas in San Antonio
4) Akron General
5) Western Michigan
6) Iowa
7) Regions
8) Dartmouth
9) Bethlehem
10) Peoria
11) ECU
12) Hennepin
13) Grand Rapids

 

[witzelsucht]

Question (and partial list): got a real good vibe at VCU (richmond va) on the interview, seems like they have great u/s and tox faculty, residents seem happy, cool place to live. yet, a dearth of comments on the forums. is that just because of...idk? low academic reputation? location? other top choices are christiana (+peds, +sickness, +month of nights), baystate (+happy residents, +schedule, -iCompare, +/- location), temple (enough has been said).

so, really, I'm looking for comments about VCU. don't want to assign them an unduly high rank based on maybe just a really good IV day ,but at the same time they say to go with your gut...

 

[Petypet]

Question (and partial list): got a real good vibe at VCU (richmond va) on the interview, seems like they have great u/s and tox faculty, residents seem happy, cool place to live. yet, a dearth of comments on the forums. is that just because of...idk? low academic reputation? location? other top choices are christiana (+peds, +sickness, +month of nights), baystate (+happy residents, +schedule, -iCompare, +/- location), temple (enough has been said).

so, really, I'm looking for comments about VCU. don't want to assign them an unduly high rank based on maybe just a really good IV day ,but at the same time they say to go with your gut...

hidden gem, don't let the word get out

 

[Cinematographer]

Wonder if there will be a flood of rank lists posted here after Wednesday (Feb. 24th) of next week.

Spoiler

I know I will be posting mine then

 

[deleted284725]

Honestly, I am waiting just in case anyone wants to ask me specific questions. I'll feel more comfortable answering them after the 24th.

 

[airball]

Can anyone comment on the off service months at UVA? Peds Surgery??

 

[DrJavaSunflower]

Honestly, I am waiting just in case anyone wants to ask me specific questions. I'll feel more comfortable answering them after the 24th.

Is the 24th also the last day for programs to submit their ROL? I know it's for us.

 

[Saminto]

Is the 24th also the last day for programs to submit their ROL? I know it's for us.

Yeah, it is

 

[Cinclus]

Honestly, I am waiting just in case anyone wants to ask me specific questions. I'll feel more comfortable answering them after the 24th.

Same here. Especially for those considering where to apply in the future.

 

[erasthrowaway328382382]

I cant decide between Sinai and NYU anyone care to weigh in?

 

[Swingman]

Honestly, I am waiting just in case anyone wants to ask me specific questions. I'll feel more comfortable answering them after the 24th.

Same. List has been solid since December for me.

 

[witzelsucht]

is sending out a "#1 email" today a futile effort?

 

[swamprat]

is sending out a "#1 email" today a futile effort?

It is probably a futile effort regardless of when you decided to do it. Most likely by now programs have their rank list in. Send it if you want, it won't hurt and requires almost no effort to do.

 

[Cinematographer]

It is probably a futile effort regardless of when you decided to do it. Most likely by now programs have their rank list in. Send it if you want, it won't hurt and requires almost no effort to do.

Hmm. I sent mine last week. Dont think it will improve my chances of matching there, but at least I hope it doesn't move me down. Kept it brief and BS-free.