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Frazier said:
Nah, it got bumped up to 260k recently.
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must have been pretty recently because exactly 22 hrs ago I got an email from the physician recruitment director for a region that listed 240k as the max.
And all the current USA jobs info has 240k as the max listed too....so they haven't changed that yet either.
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Shikima said:
I'm starting to see more and more referrals for anxiety with a limited script for a BZD given. I'd rather see this kind of dispo being done than the alternative where the PCP is keeping them on increasing dosages over years.
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I don't like that becva
Frazier said:
They are right on the site:

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/381436300
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excellent...this is good news for those who may want to make careers in the VA. I don't know why they list the lowest salary as 98k though. I wonder what the lowest salary anyone starting off has ever gotten for full time in the last 2 years. Cant imagine it's all that close to 98k...150k is the lowest I've ever heard recently.
 
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vistaril said:
I don't like that becva


excellent...this is good news for those who may want to make careers in the VA. I don't know why they list the lowest salary as 98k though. I wonder what the lowest salary anyone starting off has ever gotten for full time in the last 2 years. Cant imagine it's all that close to 98k...150k is the lowest I've ever heard recently.
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I've seen VA's consider something like 20/21 hours/week as minimum for full time in the past. Not sure if they still can. That pay is about 98k with benefits.

Even the academic centers are raising salaries. Starting at 180k now.
 
TexasPhysician said:
I've seen VA's consider something like 20/21 hours/week as minimum for full time in the past. Not sure if they still can. That pay is about 98k with benefits.

Even the academic centers are raising salaries. Starting at 180k now.
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Im sure this is also region dependent, and probably more dependent on what type of academic job it is(and how big an academic center). Someone I know just signed on at a fairly large academic center for 158k. Another for 160k. East Carolina dept of psychiatry(for anyone that cares...which is probably nobody ha) offered one of the same people 156k. Then again I've heard a community based program offering 210kish.

I'd kill for a good VA job that pays about 190k+ starting in a place I want to live. If one is out there, I'm ready to go. Well not kill but you know what I mean:)
 
What the VA does is give you a salary but then gives you an additional salary (forget what it's called) on top of the original salary.
 
I agree with vistaril that nobody is going to pay more than what you produce unless they subsidise it from somewhere else which is difficult in current environment. Although remote area rural VA psychiatry salary has been around 220k and is probably 240k now. Even 5 years ago they used to first pay recruitment bonus 20-45k max and then call it retention bonus in remote areas. 75th percentile psychiatry salary in remote areas has stagnated around 260 to 275k for the last 5 years. Above 300k is based on production, at that point one may be better off in private group practice.
 
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It would be highly unusual to have subsidized adult psychiatry. Generally its the psychiatrists production subsidizing others like therapists, researchers, case managers, nurses etc. The more auxiliary support you have, the less you have in your pocket.
 
Just to clear up some information on VAs here. I had two standing offers from different VAs in very different parts of the country (south v coastal) One outpt position started me at 220K. The other is a VA job with no weekends and no call starting at 210K for an academic center. The latter job is in a competitive area where VA jobs are hard to come by.

That 98K where the salary range begins is the BASE PAY. They then add to it to make the pay competitive. I don't know the formula used for the addition but it makes your pay competitive to other psychiatrists in the area as well as taking into account your experience. I have only spoken to a few people (N=4) who have joined the VA in the past two years, but 210 to 220k is the standard for outpt just out of residency. Inpt is 220 to 230K starting out of residency.
 
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I agree and have also been offered 210-220 for direct va employment. Contract jobs with military and VA pay a lot more, but terrible benefits.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
All these people who say 210-230 for starting psychiatrists just out of residency in the VA is common in ok areas......please tell me where these openings are(not being sarcastic) I'd love to take one in an area I'd like to be. I'm not even super picky on location, inpatient/outpt, call, etc.....since everyone is throwing out personal stories, a guy I know(very qualified with 8 years experience) just accepted the Charleston(sc) opening for 180. So if the comp board is paying him 180 Id have to think a newer grad such as me would have come in less. There is still an opening in Columbia(sc), but not sure what it pays for new grads.
 
vistaril said:
All these people who say 210-230 for starting psychiatrists just out of residency in the VA is common in ok areas......please tell me where these openings are(not being sarcastic) I'd love to take one in an area I'd like to be. I'm not even super picky on location, inpatient/outpt, call, etc.....since everyone is throwing out personal stories, a guy I know(very qualified with 8 years experience) just accepted the Charleston(sc) opening for 180. So if the comp board is paying him 180 Id have to think a newer grad such as me would have come in less. There is still an opening in Columbia(sc), but not sure what it pays for new grads.
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The one in town here paid a brand new graduate of our program 225 plus sign on for outpatient. The inpatient guys are making 235.
 
Until very recently(maybe just a few weeks ago?) the absolute highest salary for any psychiatrist in the VA system was 240k. It seems odd that new psychiatrists just out of residency would be making essentially as much as people with impressive CVs, 20 years experience, and who are in the highest supervisory roles. Then again maybe I'm just speaking with the wrong VAs, because none of the ones Im talking to are in that range(and this is for BC not BE new grads). Or maybe it's a region/COL thing....the VAs I've spoken with have been in the deep south(nashville area, birmingham, orlando, tampa, charleston, etc). They could pay less. I need to find these 225 govt jobs with huge student loan repayment on top of that because I'd move for one haha
 
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vistaril said:
Until very recently(maybe just a few weeks ago?) the absolute highest salary for any psychiatrist in the VA system was 240k. It seems odd that new psychiatrists just out of residency would be making essentially as much as people with impressive CVs, 20 years experience, and who are in the highest supervisory roles. Then again maybe I'm just speaking with the wrong VAs, because none of the ones Im talking to are in that range(and this is for BC not BE new grads). Or maybe it's a region/COL thing....the VAs I've spoken with have been in the deep south(nashville area, birmingham, orlando, tampa, charleston, etc). They could pay less. I need to find these 225 govt jobs with huge student loan repayment on top of that because I'd move for one haha
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Well, I don't know what to tell you. It's common knowledge around here and I've confirmed this looking at the VA salary site that our recent grad made 225k.
 
I'm not sure that VA salaries are based as much on your publication history and CV as much as they're based on you being willing to see/manage lots of difficult patients and/or take call and/or work in undesirable areas.
 
keifernny2 said:
I'm not sure that VA salaries are based as much on your publication history and CV as much as they're based on you being willing to see/manage lots of difficult patients and/or take call and/or work in undesirable areas.
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would somebody being willing to post or pm me more specifics (ie location, job description, salary, signing bonus, edrp stipend offer, whatever esle u know) on va jobs offers for recent grads? i'm in middle of negotiations right now with va and would be incredibly helpful. i'd be happy to post my experience and info on my final offer once completed (prob in next cpl weeks).
 
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doubledeuce80 said:
would somebody being willing to post or pm me more specifics (ie location, hob description, salary, signing bonus, edrp stipend offer, whatever esle u know) on va jobs offers for recent grads? i'm in middle of negotiations right now with va and would be incredibly helpful. i'd be happy to post my experience and info on my final offer once completed (prob in next cpl weeks).
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Here offering 225+ for all outpatient work. Very rare call. Probably every 2-3 months just covering any consults, which some weekends may be none, the way I understand it. Not sure what the loan repayment is. 30k sign on, I believe. You can PM for location.
 
vistaril said:
Until very recently(maybe just a few weeks ago?) the absolute highest salary for any psychiatrist in the VA system was 240k. It seems odd that new psychiatrists just out of residency would be making essentially as much as people with impressive CVs, 20 years experience, and who are in the highest supervisory roles. Then again maybe I'm just speaking with the wrong VAs, because none of the ones Im talking to are in that range(and this is for BC not BE new grads). Or maybe it's a region/COL thing....the VAs I've spoken with have been in the deep south(nashville area, birmingham, orlando, tampa, charleston, etc). They could pay less. I need to find these 225 govt jobs with huge student loan repayment on top of that because I'd move for one haha
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Most VA's don't have the luxury of multiple psychiatrists applying for all of their positions. They are more desperate, and they couldn't care less about experience. They just want any credentialed psych.
 
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Geographic variation for the same for is nothing new for the government. For example your living expenses in the military are different based on where you live. Medicare pays differently based on location.

That being said they can use almost any factor to increase pay with the intent to retain employees.
The OPM calls these special rates. I don't know if that applies to the VA or not.
 
st2205 said:
Well, I don't know what to tell you. It's common knowledge around here and I've confirmed this looking at the VA salary site that our recent grad made 225k.
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what VA is this?
 
TexasPhysician said:
Most VA's don't have the luxury of multiple psychiatrists applying for all of their positions. They are more desperate, and they couldn't care less about experience. They just want any credentialed psych.
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well as many others here can attest to, I'm not a location-elitist type. I don't mind living in medium sized non-coastal cities. In fact, I would prefer living in these cities to the 5-7 largest cities in the country. but there is a heck of a lot of difference between living in cities like the ones I mentioned and cities like Tuskegee, Al or Monroeville, Al or Dublin, Ga. I don't want to live in a town of 10,000 people. 200,000-300,000 to something as big as Nashville or tampa max? Sure, in fact I'd prefer that to Miami or whatever.

And I really don't think most VAs are struggling or really desparate to staff these VAs. At least not the ones I'm familiar with.
 
doubledeuce80 said:
would somebody being willing to post or pm me more specifics (ie location, job description, salary, signing bonus, edrp stipend offer, whatever esle u know) on va jobs offers for recent grads? i'm in middle of negotiations right now with va and would be incredibly helpful. i'd be happy to post my experience and info on my final offer once completed (prob in next cpl weeks).
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I'll list a few I've heard in the last couple years(for starting salaries of people without a lot of experience):

Birmingham, Al- 160ish(over 2 years ago)
Charleston and Columbia(both SC)- 180k both very recently
Atlanta, Ga area- 165-170k about a year ago
Greenville, NC- 180k very recently

Not sure about student loans or anything. As another poster said, I think that's very dependent on a number of factors, some beyond your control.
 
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@Vist -- I think your salaries listed above are not taking into account the pay bumps pure and simple. My job IS IN one of the places you listed and my 210 salary is from there (I'm BC just out of residency but will take no call, weekends or holiday coverage). I don't know what more you want us to say as you have a few people here who are either working at the VA or in the process of working there telling you salaries are different than what you have listed. If you don't want to hear it or believe it that's on you. I'm not about to post a pay-stub to convince you otherwise. I do think it is important for new residents to know these salaries because when it comes to searching for jobs you should negotiate those details and let a potential employer know your worth in certain settings.
 
As far as I know, VA pay has several components = Base pay of 98k to 120 k + market pay which adds 60k to 100k or more and that is the major difference in VA in a city of 10k population vs a city with population of 500k+ recruitment/retention bonus of 20k to 45k if it is hard to recruit place.
 
Haven't we all learned by now. Every salary thread comes down to Vistaril vs. Everyone else. What does that tell us? One party is perhaps off a bit.
 
TexasPhysician said:
Friend just took a VA job in Amarillo, TX pop 200,000. Salary is 230k. They are still looking as of a few months ago. Call them up.
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230k salary at VA in state with low cost of living and no income tax sounds pretty sweet!
 
Stay away from Federal positions. I can only speak to what the DoD is doing, but things are changing very quickly and many, many people are unhappy. I assume the VA is similar.
 
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HooahDOc said:
Stay away from Federal positions. I can only speak to what the DoD is doing, but things are changing very quickly and many, many people are unhappy. I assume the VA is similar.
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It's true. One of the issues with the VA is the classic case of too many chiefs and not enough indians.
 
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honsano, do you mind saying the specific VA? I may end up interviewing for a job there and I'd really like to know specifics for negotiation. I wont mention your name of course. Because I contacted again a guy who is new at another VA(again one of those 4) and he says his last pay stub was much much less. You obviously arent at the same VA he is. I believe you, but it's clear that depending on the VA there is a large difference in what they may pay newish people, and I'd like to know that going in so I know where I stand.
As for Amarillo, I don't think 300k could bring me there. It may be for some though. By 200k cities I mean the city can have 200k but the metro area as a whole should have much more. I mean heck technically Atlanta only has 400-500k I think. But the weather in Amarillo would be the real dealbreaker for me.
 
vistaril said:
honsano, do you mind saying the specific VA? I may end up interviewing for a job there and I'd really like to know specifics for negotiation. I wont mention your name of course. Because I contacted again a guy who is new at another VA(again one of those 4) and he says his last pay stub was much much less. You obviously arent at the same VA he is. I believe you, but it's clear that depending on the VA there is a large difference in what they may pay newish people, and I'd like to know that going in so I know where I stand.
As for Amarillo, I don't think 300k could bring me there. It may be for some though. By 200k cities I mean the city can have 200k but the metro area as a whole should have much more. I mean heck technically Atlanta only has 400-500k I think. But the weather in Amarillo would be the real dealbreaker for me.
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Check out the Tucson VA dude. It is one of the nicer VAs in the country plus great weather, cheap cost of living, and beautiful mountain views in the Catalina Foothills. I believe the pay is at least 200k. 500k metro pop. 1M pop surrounding.
 
Shikima said:
It's true. One of the issues with the VA is the classic case of too many chiefs and not enough indians.
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Yep, I have been telling the program director that for over a year. They wonder why we can't accomplish everything we are given, and I regularly say I have at least 3-4 different people who are all giving me tasks and have no idea what other people are giving me to do.

It's so crazy and I think the DoD system is going to get burned. A general psych program has a department gme chief who is a psychologist and is, "in charge" of the GME program director. I'm pretty certain that's an ACGME violation. He refers to the psych residents as, "my residents"
 
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F0nzie said:
Check out the Tucson VA dude. It is one of the nicer VAs in the country plus great weather, cheap cost of living, and beautiful mountain views in the Catalina Foothills. I believe the pay is at least 200k. 500k metro pop. 1M pop surrounding.
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It does sound appealing, but that's a long long way from my family.
 
HooahDOc said:
Yep, I have been telling the program director that for over a year. They wonder why we can't accomplish everything we are given, and I regularly say I have at least 3-4 different people who are all giving me tasks and have no idea what other people are giving me to do.

It's so crazy and I think the DoD system is going to get burned. A general psych program has a department gme chief who is a psychologist and is, "in charge" of the GME program director. I'm pretty certain that's an ACGME violation. He refers to the psych residents as, "my residents"
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it does seem like at every VA Ive passed through there are a tremendous number of supervisors, all with slightly different titles.
 
HooahDOc said:
Yep, I have been telling the program director that for over a year. They wonder why we can't accomplish everything we are given, and I regularly say I have at least 3-4 different people who are all giving me tasks and have no idea what other people are giving me to do.

It's so crazy and I think the DoD system is going to get burned. A general psych program has a department gme chief who is a psychologist and is, "in charge" of the GME program director. I'm pretty certain that's an ACGME violation. He refers to the psych residents as, "my residents"
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There are quite a few VAs who have PhD's in charge of MH who have no idea what the role of a psychiatrist is or how to effectively utilize them. I know all are not like what we're describing, but the few that are in that position are questionable for working with/under.
 
bad admin is the main driving force into private practice.
 
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Shikima said:
..and yet the VA doesn't fire bad administrators.
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I used to work in a law firm that specialized in representing federal employees in EEOC cases. On average, it takes approximately 15 months to actually fire someone who falls under the purview of the Merit Systems Protection Board, assuming they engage in very basic appeals. The only real exception to this is if the supervisors have the employee truly dead to rights (just not turning up to work, actually assaulting people, treason). Turning up to work drunk, to take one example, is not enough to expedite this process, nor is routinely throwing temper tantrums that involve objects being thrown around the room in team meetings. Also, merely "satisfactory" performance review scores are actionable by the employee if they are inclined to grievance.

As a result, when canny federal supervisors want to get rid of someone, they are far more likely to give them a "promotion" that involves putting them in a room by themselves (ideally in a dank sub basement) with very little to do. Less canny federal supervisors either get involved in long, drawn-out arbitration fights or just don't bother.
 
Why does every thread about the job market or salaries have to devolve into a VA-fest? Why is everyone so obsessed with the VA?
 
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Not that many people are.
Really it is not that great of a job.
You don't get paid a lot, what you do get is in a w-2 and then you have to deal with the nightmarish admin.

You do get to sit around and avoid seeing patients if that is what you want.

On a whole other note, the VA is kind of obsolete.
 
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Indodo said:
Not that many people are.
Really it is not that great of a job.
You don't get paid a lot, what you do get is in a w-2 and then you have to deal with the nightmarish admin.

You do get to sit around and avoid seeing patients if that is what you want.

On a whole other note, the VA is kind of obsolete.
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What do you mean by obsolete? It may run like a beurocratic dinosaur but it's still the 2nd(?) biggest healthcare provider in the world.
 
Trismegistus4 said:
Why does every thread about the job market or salaries have to devolve into a VA-fest? Why is everyone so obsessed with the VA?
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It seems like they're one of the biggest hirers of psychiatrists, and they're polarizing. For lots of us, it's also a major player in our training, so it's a place we know about.

About VA salary -- it looks like the cap is still $240k in my area.
 
Armadillos said:
What do you mean by obsolete? It may run like a beurocratic dinosaur but it's still the 2nd(?) biggest healthcare provider in the world.
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Well size doesn't mean something is not obsolete. There are constant complaints about shortages, waiting times etc in the VA that do not occur for the overwhelming majority of people with someone with medicare. I'm not saying it is good or bad because the reasons for poor performance are multifactorial.
It's a parallel system that doesn't run well.
 
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