2016-2017 "What are my Chances?" thread

[notdeadyet]

I can't speak for others, but when I recommend that folks apply broadly, I'm not referring specifically to geography. But the more you limit your choices, the more you limit your chances.

This is calculated risk. If you are limiting yourself to, say, community programs in the midwest, that may be an acceptable risk. That's because you are limiting yourself to a set of constraints that is less that highly competetive.

But if you limit yourself to New England coastal academic programs, your smaller pool is also one with a lot of swimmers. And good swimmers.

The OP can strategize what he or she thinks is best, but since this is on a What Are My Chances thread, I'm assuming he or she is looking for advice.

My advice is to come up with a set of programs that match your ideal and apply to them. Then make a compromise (geography, academics, proximity to ocean, etc.) and look at your list of choices and ask yourself "would I rather attend each of these residencies or scramble/SOAP/not match?" If you'd be happier not matching, drop it. If you'd rather attend it, put it on your list, even with the intention of it not being your best fit. Then make another compromise. You will soon hit a point at which you'd rather not match and then you're done.

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[notdeadyet]

Sloop- That all said, you are an MD-to-be with a killer Step 1 score, honored psych, demonstrated early interest in the field, and have no red flags. Assuming you get good LORs and come across in interviews articulate, respectful, and pleasant in company, you will probably match at one the programs you mentioned by name in your short list. Probably at the higher end. The advice above is just for the sake of how to apply broadly for safety's sake. You'll be fine.

re: research- I matched at a top program with no research. Most folks at my program don't have what I would call research. Most folks at the programs you listed will not have research backgrounds. This lack may shoot you down at one or two programs, but most will only care if you're applying research track or make it the cornerstone of your application.

 

[prok]

...

 

[lymphocyte]

.

 

[clausewitz2]

Step 1: 252
Step 2 CK/ CS: 246/Pass
School: Somewhere in Ireland/UK/Australia
Class Rank: N/A
Grades in Clerkship: Honours in all
AOA: N/A
Research/Publications/Extracurriculars:
1. Full scholarship to medical school
2. 3 publications, IF>10, none in psychiatry
3. One US LOR in neurology (unsolicited, so I assume it’s good), two LORs from home country in psychiatry
4. I’ve worked with the homeless for over 7 years in various ways with numerous leadership positions. It’s a population I’d like to keep working with. Dual diagnoses, supportive housing, psychiatric rehabilitation--these are topics that I could spend all day talking about. I hope my passion comes through on my application.
5. Some interesting work experience (WHO, statistical consulting)

Red Flags: Took a year off due to a very bad car accident involving me and my wife.

Overview of where you want to end up:
I have no geographic preferences and I'd be ecstatic to end up at a solid reputable program like Iowa, UNM, Indiana, Henry Ford, MCW, Kentucky, Arkansas, etc. Frankly, I just want to be the best damn psychiatrist I can be, and I'm sure I could accomplish that goal at the vast majority of programs.

I would not characterize Kentucky as a solid program, not when UofL is in the same state and significantly stronger.

 

[lymphocyte]

I would not characterize Kentucky as a solid program, not when UofL is in the same state and significantly stronger.

Fair enough. It's just something I heard through the grapevine. I'll definitely take a look at UofL. Any other thoughts?

 

[sloop]

Sloop- That all said, you are an MD-to-be with a killer Step 1 score, honored psych, demonstrated early interest in the field, and have no red flags. Assuming you get good LORs and come across in interviews articulate, respectful, and pleasant in company, you will probably match at one the programs you mentioned by name in your short list. Probably at the higher end. The advice above is just for the sake of how to apply broadly for safety's sake. You'll be fine.

re: research- I matched at a top program with no research. Most folks at my program don't have what I would call research. Most folks at the programs you listed will not have research backgrounds. This lack may shoot you down at one or two programs, but most will only care if you're applying research track or make it the cornerstone of your application.

Thanks. I definitely appreciate the advice and get what you are saying. I probably will add some less academic and more Midwestern type programs just to be safe.

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks. I definitely appreciate the advice and get what you are saying. I probably will add some less academic and more Midwestern type programs just to be safe.

And there are some amazing midwest programs and amazing New England ones. Almost any good program (and with your stats, you will only be looking at good programs) will beat SOAPing or missing out a year.

But "just to be safe" is the takeaway. I would have loved it if my application looked more like yours when I was applying, and I landed okay. So will you.

 

[2017doc]

DO student.
Step 1: COMLEX Level 1 in the 460's. No USMLE. (Average COMLEX is 520, passing is 400, SD is 85 for those who don't know)
Step 2 CK/ CS: COMLEX 2 (both parts) will be complete during the summer.
School: (DO school on the west coast)
Class Rank: Low
Grades in Clerkship: Overall clerkship grades mostly P's due to shelf grades. Evals from faculty are almost all HP or H. Psych elective HP overall. One random H in a non-psych elective. Have not yet completed core Psych rotation. No LP's or F's.
AOA: No.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Some non-psych related publications before medical school. One non-psych publication during medical school.
Club officer for my school's Psychiatry interest group during MS-1 and MS-2. Completed a psych elective during MS-3. APA member since last year.
Some general medical volunteer work during medical school.
TA for OMM course.
Have an MPH from before medical school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) No course failures, no rotation failures, no LOA's, no time off, no board failures, no IA's, no probation or any other red flags.
Overview of where you want to end up: Any US psychiatry program at all, anywhere. Planning to apply very broadly to every AOA program which plans to apply for ACGME accreditation (can't afford to graduate from an unaccredited residency). Also planning to apply very broadly to ACGME programs, although I feel like my chances are slimmer there due to being a DO with low numbers and COMLEX only. I'd prefer a program with at least some training in therapy but am willing to go anywhere. So far I've managed to schedule one audition at an AOA program and am trying to get at least a couple more in but haven't heard back yet.

This year's ACGME psychiatry match seemed particularly tough on DOs.
Do I stand a good chance if I apply broadly enough to both AOA and ACGME programs? Or should I split my effort and apply FM as well?

 

[bowlesman]

Step 1: 220s
Step 2 CK/ CS: haven't taken yet
School: top 20
Class Rank: likely bottom third
Grades in Clerkship: High pass pysch, surgery, neuro, and OB; pass IM and Peds
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 publication, 1 poster, neither in psych
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) not that I know of
Overview of where you want to end up: The best program that I can get into. I'd like to be in NYC, Chicago, LA, or SF Bay Area.

I realized late that I wanted to do psych so I'm worried that my low step 1 score, poor grades in IM/Peds, and lack of psych research would be a huge factor against me. Location is pretty important to me as I don't see myself living in outside of an urban environment. I'm also wondering if I should be taking my Step 2CK sooner than later.

 

[clausewitz2]

Step 1: 223
Step 2 CK/ CS: haven't taken yet
School: top 15
Class Rank: likely bottom third
Grades in Clerkship: High pass pysch, surgery, neuro, and OB; pass IM and Peds; honor EM and FM
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 publication, 1 poster, neither in psych
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) not that I know of
Overview of where you want to end up: The best program that I can get into. I'd like to be in NYC, Chicago, LA, or SF Bay Area.

I realized late that I wanted to do psych so I'm worried that my low step 1 score, poor grades in IM/Peds, and lack of psych research would be a huge factor against me. Location is pretty important to me as I don't see myself living in outside of an urban environment. I'm also wondering if I should be taking my Step 2CK sooner than later.

Unless you are taking nbme practice exams and whiffing them by a country mile, taking CK sooner rather than later is always the correct answer.

 

[FlowRate]

Step 1: 223
Step 2 CK/ CS: haven't taken yet
School: top 15
Class Rank: likely bottom third
Grades in Clerkship: High pass pysch, surgery, neuro, and OB; pass IM and Peds; honor EM and FM
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 publication, 1 poster, neither in psych
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) not that I know of
Overview of where you want to end up: The best program that I can get into. I'd like to be in NYC, Chicago, LA, or SF Bay Area.

I realized late that I wanted to do psych so I'm worried that my low step 1 score, poor grades in IM/Peds, and lack of psych research would be a huge factor against me. Location is pretty important to me as I don't see myself living in outside of an urban environment. I'm also wondering if I should be taking my Step 2CK sooner than later.

Assuming by top 15 you mean from 15-10. If it's in CA, you probably stand a better chance of staying in CA. You'll be able to match around LA/SF but UCLA/Stan/UCSF may be tough, unless you have ways of really standing out that aren't related to numbers. I don't know anything about NYC/Chicago.

Crush Step 2 early enough to get your score on your initial ERAS submission to help make up for the average S1.

 

[prok]

Assuming by top 15 you mean from 15-10. If it's in CA, you probably stand a better chance of staying in CA. You'll be able to match around LA/SF but UCLA/Stan/UCSF may be tough, unless you have ways of really standing out that aren't related to numbers. I don't know anything about NYC/Chicago.

Crush Step 2 early enough to get your score on your initial ERAS submission to help make up for the average S1.

What do you mean by crushing step 2, at least for the kinds of competitive programs they were talking about?

 

[lymphocyte]

A kindly bump. Is there anything I can do between now and September to improve my application?

 

[notdeadyet]

A kindly bump. Is there anything I can do between now and September to improve my application?

Any chance of U.S. psychiatry rotations and solicitation of a U.S. psychiatry LOR by time of application?

You have an amazing looking application. The only hiccup you'll face is your IMG status. One way to try to minimize this is having as much U.S. clinical experience as possible.

But even if you do nothing more, you have a great shot at matching into a solid program.

 

[FlowRate]

What do you mean by crushing step 2, at least for the kinds of competitive programs they were talking about?

Above 235 is OK. Remember that 240 is now average for S2CK. Higher is always better. You can find the distribution for psychiatry in the NRMP charting outcomes docs.

 

[Dharma]

DO student.
Step 1: COMLEX Level 1 in the 460's. No USMLE. (Average COMLEX is 520, passing is 400, SD is 85 for those who don't know)
Step 2 CK/ CS: COMLEX 2 (both parts) will be complete during the summer.
School: Western U (DO school)
Class Rank: Low
Grades in Clerkship: Overall clerkship grades mostly P's due to shelf grades. Evals from faculty are almost all HP or H. Psych elective HP overall. One random H in a non-psych elective. Have not yet completed core Psych rotation. No LP's or F's.
AOA: No.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Some non-psych related publications before medical school. One non-psych publication during medical school.
Club officer for my school's Psychiatry interest group during MS-1 and MS-2. Completed a psych elective during MS-3. APA member since last year.
Some general medical volunteer work during medical school.
TA for OMM course.
Have an MPH from before medical school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) No course failures, no rotation failures, no LOA's, no time off, no board failures, no IA's, no probation or any other red flags.
Overview of where you want to end up: Any US psychiatry program at all, anywhere. Planning to apply very broadly to every AOA program which plans to apply for ACGME accreditation (can't afford to graduate from an unaccredited residency). Also planning to apply very broadly to ACGME programs, although I feel like my chances are slimmer there due to being a DO with low numbers and COMLEX only. I'd prefer a program with at least some training in therapy but am willing to go anywhere. So far I've managed to schedule one audition at an AOA program and am trying to get at least a couple more in but haven't heard back yet.

This year's ACGME psychiatry match seemed particularly tough on DOs.
Do I stand a good chance if I apply broadly enough to both AOA and ACGME programs? Or should I split my effort and apply FM as well?

No red flags so you're good to go there. But yeah, DO. You will hear a lot of people around you at school saying that the DO doesn't matter, but it does and it will limit your options, but that's ok because there are a lot of options. That said, you need to apply broadly (i.e. NOT just west coast; include many midwestern programs) and early, i.e. have your entire ERAS application ready to roll with all of your LORs in with plenty of time to spare (just to play it safe).

Your COMLEX is low, but you passed, so it's not a nail in the coffin. It would do you much good to get over that 500 hump for Level 2. My general advice is usually to take the USMLE but I'm not sure that would be the best course of action here. You struggled with COMLEX and while it is not easier per se, it's a different beast than the USMLE. Just focus on that. Hopefully your school allows some dedicated study time of some sort. I personally recommend a good 3-4 weeks of solid study (UWorld, Greenbook, COMbank for OMM, and UWSA for practice; take notes and hit it hard). FWIW I have a friend with similar scores as yours who matched well this year. She did not leave any questions about her dedication to psychiatry though and worked her butt off on rotations to demonstrate this. Do the same.

The extracurriculars don't mean much. Research isn't a huge game changer either. Don't sweat it. That MPH doesn't look too shabby though. Work that into your story.

My opinion is to ditch the DO "audition" and use that time at an ACGME program of interest. This is assuming you feel you will do well. It's still early in terms of setting those up so don't worry yet. Will the rotation be early enough to land an LOR out of it? Try that if you can. There is no reason you cannot match at a good ACGME program. I personally don't think you should do the AOA match unless it's a program you really like. As long as you are demonstrating true interest and have the LORs and clerkship grades to back it up, you should be ok, IF you apply smartly. Rule of 1/3s apply here: 1/3 reaches (relative reaches according to your scores and being a DO), 1/3 middle of road (again relative), and 1/3 safeties.

As far as therapy goes, you will get exposure everywhere to some degree but some places will be better than others. Definitely read the stickies here on the forum (including the dedicated DO threads) to get an idea of which programs will offer you what you may be looking for.

Feel free to PM with any other questions. Best of luck!

 

[clonalorazepam]

..

 

[FlowRate]

Step 1: 200
Step 2 CK/ CS: will be taking before September
School: lower ranked US school
Class Rank: somewhere in the lower half - i don't really know to be honest
Grades in Clerkship: A's in all except IM - B
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research. Lots and lots of volunteer work, health promoting activities, organizing mass vaccinations etc.
Red Flags: Failed microbiology.
Overview of where you want to end up: literally anywhere

Extremely worried about the bad Step 1 score + having failed a course. I think I've really turned things around this year though and I've managed to get As on all clinical rotations except Internal Medicine - which I got a B in. I still have to finish Peds too.
I just really really want to go to Psych - there's literally no other branch I see myself in. Med school has been really hard and an uphill battle for me and I just want to finish it and start working in something I actually like. I'm worried though that the combination of bad factors in my app will leave me "un-matched" though and I'll be making a fool of myself by applying or aspiring for a spot.

Assuming you're at an MD school. The fact that you turned things around to get excellent clinical grades is really helpful, although that's partially dependent on your institution's grade curve (do 80% get an A or 15%?). Crush your Step 2, apply broadly, make friends at your home program and I'm sure you'll be able to match.

 

[SartoriousMeansTailor]

No red flags so you're good to go there. But yeah, DO. You will hear a lot of people around you at school saying that the DO doesn't matter, but it does and it will limit your options, but that's ok because there are a lot of options. That said, you need to apply broadly (i.e. NOT just west coast; include many midwestern programs) and early, i.e. have your entire ERAS application ready to roll with all of your LORs in with plenty of time to spare (just to play it safe).

Your COMLEX is low, but you passed, so it's not a nail in the coffin. It would do you much good to get over that 500 hump for Level 2. My general advice is usually to take the USMLE but I'm not sure that would be the best course of action here. You struggled with COMLEX and while it is not easier per se, it's a different beast than the USMLE. Just focus on that. Hopefully your school allows some dedicated study time of some sort. I personally recommend a good 3-4 weeks of solid study (UWorld, Greenbook, COMbank for OMM, and UWSA for practice; take notes and hit it hard). FWIW I have a friend with similar scores as yours who matched well this year. She did not leave any questions about her dedication to psychiatry though and worked her butt off on rotations to demonstrate this. Do the same.

The extracurriculars don't mean much. Research isn't a huge game changer either. Don't sweat it. That MPH doesn't look too shabby though. Work that into your story.

My opinion is to ditch the DO "audition" and use that time at an ACGME program of interest. This is assuming you feel you will do well. It's still early in terms of setting those up so don't worry yet. Will the rotation be early enough to land an LOR out of it? Try that if you can. There is no reason you cannot match at a good ACGME program. I personally don't think you should do the AOA match unless it's a program you really like. As long as you are demonstrating true interest and have the LORs and clerkship grades to back it up, you should be ok, IF you apply smartly. Rule of 1/3s apply here: 1/3 reaches (relative reaches according to your scores and being a DO), 1/3 middle of road (again relative), and 1/3 safeties.

As far as therapy goes, you will get exposure everywhere to some degree but some places will be better than others. Definitely read the stickies here on the forum (including the dedicated DO threads) to get an idea of which programs will offer you what you may be looking for.

Feel free to PM with any other questions. Best of luck!

I would also add: take time to develop a great personal statement that speaks genuinely to why YOU want to go into psych. I had several programs comment on mine during interviews - I think it helps to have something that says "hey, this person is interesting...I want to know more about what they think about X, Y, Z..." I applied to a handful of AOA programs as "back-ups" and spend my audition time at AGCME and it was well worth it. When you're there, be great to work with and that should go a long way. Oh, and try to knock Level 2 out of the park...it makes it less of a risk that you'll get hung up with Level 3, which programs will appreciate. Feel free to PM me and best of luck!

 

[clonalorazepam]

Assuming you're at an MD school. The fact that you turned things around to get excellent clinical grades is really helpful, although that's partially dependent on your institution's grade curve (do 80% get an A or 15%?). Crush your Step 2, apply broadly, make friends at your home program and I'm sure you'll be able to match.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I'm in an MD school. I dont think we have a particular lenient curve... pretty much the minority gets As like in every other school, right?

I'm much more confident going into Step 2, so I'm positive I'll be able to get a pretty decent score.

 

[FlowRate]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I'm in an MD school. I dont think we have a particular lenient curve... pretty much the minority gets As like in every other school, right?

I'm much more confident going into Step 2, so I'm positive I'll be able to get a pretty decent score.

There's a lot of heterogeneity in how institutions grade, although the majority do keep the highest grade relatively scarce (10% - 30%).

 

[scruffy821]

.

 

[Soccerfan123]

COMLEX 1 410s (second time around)
COMLEX 2 will take in July
Pre clinical Grades: mostly c
Failed one course due to family member sickness
Clerkship grades: mostly A, few high B

I can't apply to acgme match due to being off cycle.
Any suggestion besides doing better on comlex 2? I appreciate any specific input, programs that might be sympathetic in this regard? Thank you.

 

[MidwestMD2015]

reposting since things became more active!

Step 1: 226
Step 2 CK/ CS: not yet, taking it early in July
School: mid-tier US allopathic
Class Rank: not sure! around average?
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Surgery and Ob-Gyn, High Pass in Peds and Medicine (got clinical honors in all four which will show up on the transcript), rest pending
AOA: lol nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 psych publication (third author), 2 psych posters presented at 4 conferences (one of them AACAP), currently the PI on a new LGBT community psych research project I started this year. I'm very involved on our campus through student government, psych interest groups, LGBT student group, and a special curricular program for those interested in working with the underserved.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): nope
Overview of where you want to end up: I'm interested in child psychiatry, particularly psych for LGBT youth. I would LOVE to end up at a top 20, LGBT-friendly program with an urban population. I'm also super interested in the triple board (Peds/Adult Psych/Child Psych) programs, but I'm not sure how competitive they get and whether or not my step 1 score can get me there! Also bummed that I just missed honors in peds and medicine, hopefully that doesn't hurt my chances. Any suggestions for specific programs I should look at would be appreciated!

1) Even just with the bit of information you've given, I suspect you'll have some good options wherever you end up deciding to apply!
2) Triple-board programs are generally not incredibly competitive but it depends somewhat on the interest any given year. Anecdotally, in the '14-'15 interview season someone I know, who looks 'worse' on paper compared to what you've posted about yourself, had interviews at all but two of the triple board programs. It's usually a ratio of like, 2:1 or 3:1 applicants to positions available from a quick glance at some past match stats.
3) I was impressed across the board at how 'LGBT-friendly' psychiatry residencies are in general, but of course there may be something more specific you have in mind. I definitely took note as I went around, and there were a few that obviously had more LGBT residents which can be a plus for some people (my partner was more concerned about how LGBT friendly the cities were that I interviewed in.)
4) Lots of programs had outpatient LGBT clinic opportunities, some must have special clinics for LGBT youth, but if you're looking for somewhere that does research in this area you might just do a quick search on where the folks are that are publishing in your area of interest. I know of at least one sexual behaviors inpatient unit, but I know that sort of strays from what you're talking about

 

[hamnida]

Hello!

Step 1: 231
Step 2 CK/ CS: to be taken in June
School: DO school
Class Rank: top 20% ish
Grades in Clerkship: A's and A-'s
AOA: N/A (FWIW I am a member of SSP, DO-equivalent of AOA)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: I honestly don't have much research experience in medical school. 1 publication in a peer-reviewed journal as a second author in undergrad; 1 undergrad research experience in psychology. I have a volunteer project that I have been committed to for the last 5 years. Typical medical student type volunteer activities throughout first 2 years of medical school as well.
Red Flags: None (unless you count being a DO student as a weakness in the application...)
Overview of where you want to end up: I would like to end up in CA, but a lot of the programs in CA seem competitive. I would love to know realistically how programs such as UCSD, UCI, Loma Linda, Kaiser Fontana, etc are to me in terms of chances (way out of reach, within reach, reasonable chance, safe, etc) What could I do to strengthen my application?

 

[Dharma]

Hello!

Step 1: 231
Step 2 CK/ CS: to be taken in June
School: DO school
Class Rank: top 20% ish
Grades in Clerkship: A's and A-'s
AOA: N/A (FWIW I am a member of SSP, DO-equivalent of AOA)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: I honestly don't have much research experience in medical school. 1 publication in a peer-reviewed journal as a second author in undergrad; 1 undergrad research experience in psychology. I have a volunteer project that I have been committed to for the last 5 years. Typical medical student type volunteer activities throughout first 2 years of medical school as well.
Red Flags: None (unless you count being a DO student as a weakness in the application...)
Overview of where you want to end up: I would like to end up in CA, but a lot of the programs in CA seem competitive. I would love to know realistically how programs such as UCSD, UCI, Loma Linda, Kaiser Fontana, etc are to me in terms of chances (way out of reach, within reach, reasonable chance, safe, etc) What could I do to strengthen my application?

Kill Step 2 early. (That goes for all DO students). Get the PE out of the way as well, to leave as little questions as possible. Loma Linda and Kaiser Fontana have DOs but UCSD is a long shot. If you're set on Loma Linda maybe head out for a rotation. I believe they matched a few DOs this year.

Other than that, look beyond CA. Play the 1/3 game as well.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Hello!

Step 1: 231
Step 2 CK/ CS: to be taken in June
School: DO school
Class Rank: top 20% ish
Grades in Clerkship: A's and A-'s
AOA: N/A (FWIW I am a member of SSP, DO-equivalent of AOA)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: I honestly don't have much research experience in medical school. 1 publication in a peer-reviewed journal as a second author in undergrad; 1 undergrad research experience in psychology. I have a volunteer project that I have been committed to for the last 5 years. Typical medical student type volunteer activities throughout first 2 years of medical school as well.
Red Flags: None (unless you count being a DO student as a weakness in the application...)
Overview of where you want to end up: I would like to end up in CA, but a lot of the programs in CA seem competitive. I would love to know realistically how programs such as UCSD, UCI, Loma Linda, Kaiser Fontana, etc are to me in terms of chances (way out of reach, within reach, reasonable chance, safe, etc) What could I do to strengthen my application?

Solid application overall, although the DO hurts of course.

UCSD is a reach (don't recall any DO's there)
UCI is doable - I think there are DO's there now, and I interviewed with a carib there also.
Loma Linda and Kaiser are good shots. Neither are too competitive, and have a good number of DO's.

Good job taking CK/CS early. I think you will have a very successful application season. Apply to all the SoCal programs except UCLA-Semel.

 

[psychEd1184]

Long time lurker who really appreciates all the posts/input from everyone on this board. It is just incredibly informative. On that note, need some advice:

Step 1: 216
Step 2 CK/ CS: CK early June, CS later in summer but before apps are due
School: US allopathic mid tier
Class Rank: Not entirely sure; probably average to lower half
Grades in Clerkship: Honors Psych, Family, Ob-Gyn; High Pass Med and Surg; Pass in Peds. Consistently receive remarks about ability to build rapport with patients, communication skills, and professionalism.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 child psych pub pre-med school (4th author), another child psych pub in review. Longterm involvement in child psych research prior to med school at larger CA institution (where my pubs came from) and worked in behavioral therapy for a couple years. Not much other involvement during med school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): Low step 1? Pass in peds?
Overview of where you want to end up: Would prefer highly to end up back in CA, preferably in LA as family and SO are there. Also interested in child psych. Probably prefer to end up at an institution with its own child fellowship. Wondering what my chances at places like USC, UCI, UCLA-SFV are as I know UCLA-Semel and Harbor would be reaches considering my Step 1 score. Would it be advisable to do an away rotation at any of these places? Any help would be great. Thanks!

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Long time lurker who really appreciates all the posts/input from everyone on this board. It is just incredibly informative. On that note, need some advice:

Step 1: 216
Step 2 CK/ CS: CK early June, CS later in summer but before apps are due
School: US allopathic mid tier
Class Rank: Not entirely sure; probably average to lower half
Grades in Clerkship: Honors Psych, Family, Ob-Gyn; High Pass Med and Surg; Pass in Peds. Consistently receive remarks about ability to build rapport with patients, communication skills, and professionalism.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 child psych pub pre-med school (4th author), another child psych pub in review. Longterm involvement in child psych research prior to med school at larger CA institution (where my pubs came from) and worked in behavioral therapy for a couple years. Not much other involvement during med school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): Low step 1? Pass in peds?
Overview of where you want to end up: Would prefer highly to end up back in CA, preferably in LA as family and SO are there. Also interested in child psych. Probably prefer to end up at an institution with its own child fellowship. Wondering what my chances at places like USC, UCI, UCLA-SFV are as I know UCLA-Semel and Harbor would be reaches considering my Step 1 score. Would it be advisable to do an away rotation at any of these places? Any help would be great. Thanks!

Decent overall application, step 1 score isn't terrible but not doing any favors. Child psych background + interest is solid and if you can sell that, you should be fairly successful.

Semel is definitely a reach.
Harbor is not quite a reach but still very competitive - the incoming class was in the top 25% of step 1/2 scores for psych nationwide. An away there can certainly help you.
UCLA-SFV and UCI are definitely good bets. Not super competitive.
USC is an x-factor. It was historically not a very competitive program, but this year a lot of extremely competitive applicants did not match there despite ranking it very high.

Apply to the 3 Los Angeles programs (Harbor, SFV, USC), I wouldn't waste your money with Semel. Do an away at Harbor and maybe USC. Irvine is good also. If you're willing to be a little further east, Loma Linda and UCRiverside are solid options. UCSD would be very difficult.

Good luck!

 

[Dharma]

UCSD is a reach (don't recall any DO's there)

There have been in the past, but it's quite rare. They even claim to accept the COMLEX alone but I'm not sure if that's practically true. A DO would have to be somewhat of a rockstar to pull off a match there IMO.

 

[technopoly]

Decent overall application, step 1 score isn't terrible but not doing any favors. Child psych background + interest is solid and if you can sell that, you should be fairly successful.

Semel is definitely a reach.
Harbor is not quite a reach but still very competitive - the incoming class was in the top 25% of step 1/2 scores for psych nationwide. An away there can certainly help you.
UCLA-SFV and UCI are definitely good bets. Not super competitive.
USC is an x-factor. It was historically not a very competitive program, but this year a lot of extremely competitive applicants did not match there despite ranking it very high.

Apply to the 3 Los Angeles programs (Harbor, SFV, USC), I wouldn't waste your money with Semel. Do an away at Harbor and maybe USC. Irvine is good also. If you're willing to be a little further east, Loma Linda and UCRiverside are solid options. UCSD would be very difficult.

Good luck!

Take this with a grain of salt, because I applied east coast. I had the same step 1 score and did fine in interview season. I would not consider that a red flag at all. Classmates of mine with connections to CA did really well in their California interview season. Not sure how our steps compare. Good luck.

 

[scruffy821]

1) Even just with the bit of information you've given, I suspect you'll have some good options wherever you end up deciding to apply!
2) Triple-board programs are generally not incredibly competitive but it depends somewhat on the interest any given year. Anecdotally, in the '14-'15 interview season someone I know, who looks 'worse' on paper compared to what you've posted about yourself, had interviews at all but two of the triple board programs. It's usually a ratio of like, 2:1 or 3:1 applicants to positions available from a quick glance at some past match stats.
3) I was impressed across the board at how 'LGBT-friendly' psychiatry residencies are in general, but of course there may be something more specific you have in mind. I definitely took note as I went around, and there were a few that obviously had more LGBT residents which can be a plus for some people (my partner was more concerned about how LGBT friendly the cities were that I interviewed in.)
4) Lots of programs had outpatient LGBT clinic opportunities, some must have special clinics for LGBT youth, but if you're looking for somewhere that does research in this area you might just do a quick search on where the folks are that are publishing in your area of interest. I know of at least one sexual behaviors inpatient unit, but I know that sort of strays from what you're talking about

Thank you so much, that's super helpful! Good to know that most of the residencies are very LGBT-friendly. Actually since posting I've found my interests moving away from Triple Board and am enjoying adult psychiatry more and more...any thoughts on the range of general psychiatry programs that would be within my reach?

 

[quixotical]

Hi! Long time reader, first time poster. Thanks for all the info and help you guys give out in these forums! Here are my stats:

Step 1: 224
Step 2 CK/ CS: 243, CS scheduled
School: US IMG (think Australia/UK/Ireland…all clinicals in the States)
Class Rank: ?
Grades in Clerkship: no grades per se, just a numerical scale no one cares about
AOA: n/a
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Had several short volunteer stints in psych related research, and a longer RA position in a psych-neuroimaging lab studying meditation and mindfulness, which is an interest and I got a pub out of that. President of the student interest group in psychiatry, help out with med school admissions and tours for our program, and do the normal event volunteer things; BA in psychology, MPH in epidemiology, and think I can demonstrate a strong interest in the field

Red Flags: (step failures, etc) IMG?
Overview of where you want to end up: I have a lot of interests, specifically neuropsychiatry and mindfulness interventions. I'm happy to seek out programs in mid-large cities that align with that, and would love to end up back West (Cali would be the dream but might be a stretch…)

I'm freaked out by recent increase in applicants and increasing Step averages + the IMG thing. I do plan to apply broadly but would really appreciate any advice or thoughts! Thanks!

 

[splik]

I dont what this trend is for people being increasingly vague. The more vague you are the less willing (and able) we are to help. At least mention the country of med school if not the school itself (yes it does make a difference, quite a bit in fact). Being an IMG is not a red flag. you absolutely want to do psychiatry electives (at least one, if not 2) and to get US Letters of recommendation (ideally 2). Without this you will severely limit yourself, and as US medical schools proliferate and pump out more students IMGs who do not have US electives and LoRs will find themselves shut out. If you want to apply for cali programs, you should apply for your PTAL asap. if you want cali, you should have LoRs from cali. UCLA lets international students do electives (without paying tuition too!) so I would do electives there and at their affiliates if you want some california love.

 

[quixotical]

I dont what this trend is for people being increasingly vague. The more vague you are the less willing (and able) we are to help. At least mention the country of med school if not the school itself (yes it does make a difference, quite a bit in fact). Being an IMG is not a red flag. you absolutely want to do psychiatry electives (at least one, if not 2) and to get US Letters of recommendation (ideally 2). Without this you will severely limit yourself, and as US medical schools proliferate and pump out more students IMGs who do not have US electives and LoRs will find themselves shut out. If you want to apply for cali programs, you should apply for your PTAL asap. if you want cali, you should have LoRs from cali. UCLA lets international students do electives (without paying tuition too!) so I would do electives there and at their affiliates if you want some california love.

Thanks for the reply splik, and sorry for the vagueness - I was striving for internet anonymity because of our small program and class size.

It's an Australian program, with the clinical half in the States, so I have 2 years of clinical experience in the US. We don't have the ability to do psych electives in our program fourth year but I do have 2 psych letters from US faculty. I do have PTAL going but again, no ability to do aways (though that UCLA program sounds great!)

At this point, I'm just trying to get a sense of where I'll be competitive. I think Cali, PNW, and the urban NE programs (like all the Boston programs, for ex.) are probably out of reach. My list of "do-able but maybe reach" programs so far includes UNM, UofL, MCW, UW Madison, UMass, Utah. Any other suggestions? Thanks!

 

[splik]

Thanks for the reply splik, and sorry for the vagueness - I was striving for internet anonymity because of our small program and class size.

It's an Australian program, with the clinical half in the States, so I have 2 years of clinical experience in the US. We don't have the ability to do psych electives in our program fourth year but I do have 2 psych letters from US faculty. I do have PTAL going but again, no ability to do aways (though that UCLA program sounds great!)

At this point, I'm just trying to get a sense of where I'll be competitive. I think Cali, PNW, and the urban NE programs (like all the Boston programs, for ex.) are probably out of reach. My list of "do-able but maybe reach" programs so far includes UNM, UofL, MCW, UW Madison, UMass, Utah. Any other suggestions? Thanks!

ah okay, I know the school but do they graduate in december like typical australian programs? If so you could consider taking some time out to do electives and graduate late if possible. otherwise, I think you're chances of matching into a cali program are limited. UMass typically takes quite a few IMGs as no one wants to live in worcester and the PD is very positive. It also has probably the best neuropsychiatry training for a general residency program anywhere in the country (as the PD is trained in neurology and psychiatry). Harvard Southshore is another program that is very IMG heavy and the PD is also a neuropsychiatrists. Tufts is not competitive so you could apply there, BU is also not competitive and with the new chair and PD I have no idea what their approach to IMGs is (they were none too keen before hand) - but Boston City Hospital was the birthplace of American behavioral neurology with norman geschwind. I dont think the psychiatrists have much to do with this though. i cant be bothered to type any more right now but feel free to pm as i'm an IMG (non-US) on the west coast and specializing in (forensic) neuropsychiatry.

 

[pitupua]

... nvm i got paranoid...

 

[splik]

2. OHSU and WashU (I have this weird fixation on the northwest - probably because it's a 180 change to where I am now...)

you do realize WashU is in the midwest, not the northwest? do you mean UW? if so, there is a Boise track where you spend first 2 years in seattle and the last 2 years in idaho - you should apply for that and you could match into it as long as there aren't a bunch of people from idaho wanting to be there that year. also if you apply for that you will get interviewed for the seattle track, though you probably wouldn't be able to match into that.

 

[pitupua]

you do realize WashU is in the midwest, not the northwest? do you mean UW? if so, there is a Boise track where you spend first 2 years in seattle and the last 2 years in idaho - you should apply for that and you could match into it as long as there aren't a bunch of people from idaho wanting to be there that year. also if you apply for that you will get interviewed for the seattle track, though you probably wouldn't be able to match into that.

****, yeah I meant UW...
I had heard about the Idaho track but I figured it would be even more competitive... :/

 

[splik]

****, yeah I meant UW...
I had heard about the Idaho track but I figured it would be even more competitive... :/

most people do not want to live in Idaho. Boise is okay, but obviously it's not seattle or portland... Most people applying for psych are obsessed with the coasts. There are fluctuations in competitiveness depending on how many idaho natives there are, but they expanded the spots to 4 a few years ago, and on a good year there aren't 4 people who want to be in Idaho. If you were really strategic you would apply to just the Idaho and not Seattle track as that would show you were interested in that. I don't think you'd be losing out on anything because tbh you don't have a shot at matching into the seattle track. If you went to a top medical school then this would not be the case, but it is what it is. They get some stellar people (usually those who have family there) but they also take people who are less competitive and really it's a big win because you get to do the most important part of your training at a top residency program and you will still be a UW graduate at the end of the day. you could even consider doing an away out in idaho though it's not necessary.

also there is no call PGY-3 and -4, better educational expenses, and they will fly you back to seattle for specific things (for example to do the DBT training). it's an underserved area and although it is predominantly white, so is the northwest. Idaho also has a large resettlement community of refugees including from Iraq and more recently syria. you will see lots of substance abuse and complex cases of people on crazy drug regimens.

 

[Nymphicus]

Solid application overall, although the DO hurts of course.

UCSD is a reach (don't recall any DO's there)
UCI is doable - I think there are DO's there now, and I interviewed with a carib there also.
Loma Linda and Kaiser are good shots. Neither are too competitive, and have a good number of DO's.

Good job taking CK/CS early. I think you will have a very successful application season. Apply to all the SoCal programs except UCLA-Semel.

There are a light sprinkling of DO's. I believe they all (or almost all) did away rotations at UCSD though.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Step 1: 206
Step 2 CK/ CS: Will take in the fall/winter. May not be in time for schools to see, and may not be a bad thing, as I could repeat bad performance.
School: Top 5 MD school
Class Rank: N/A
Grades in Clerkship: Few passes, few HP's, one Honor, and at least HP in Psych (haven't gotten grade back yet)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Project in Anesthesiology that didn't end up getting published, but the attending really liked me and I was able to get a letter out of it. Also got an article published (not really research based, though) in a Psych journal.
Red Flags: None
Overview of where you want to end up: Chicago. Chicago. Chicago. I'm from there, and need to go back. I'll take any program there. My current med school is out of state, and I'm considering doing an away at Rush or NU to show my interest and try to make a good impression.

 

[notdeadyet]

If your only criteria is Chicago, you'll match. Just apply early and to all the Chicago programs. Make sure to hit up psych faculty early for a good LOR and keep on it. If you're at one of the top 5 Med schools, odds are good that the faculty at the better Chicago schools may know your letter writers, which carries a lot of weight.


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[SoulinNeed]

If your only criteria is Chicago, you'll match. Just apply early and to all the Chicago programs. Make sure to hit up psych faculty early for a good LOR and keep on it. If you're at one of the top 5 Med schools, odds are good that the faculty at the better Chicago schools may know your letter writers, which carries a lot of weight.


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Probably a stupid question, but any Chicago programs you recommend in particular? I'm debating about doing an away at Rush, UIC, or Loyola, because they don't get many applicants from my school. Would a late Step 2 hurt me badly, as well? I'd be happy going to NU/Rush/Loyola/UC/UIC. Like I said, any program there.

 

[notdeadyet]

Probably a stupid question, but any Chicago programs you recommend in particular?

Only based on second hand info, which I'm loathe to give since we have so many Chicagoland-knowledgeable posters.

Would a late Step 2 hurt me badly, as well? I'd be happy going to NU/Rush/Loyola/UC/UIC. Like I said, any program there.

A late Step 2 will not help you. It's an ill-advised strategy.

When programs get a low-ish Step 1, they have two thoughts: is this a low score or a so-low-we-have-to-worry-they-can't-pass-future-Steps?

If it's the former,deferring or taking your Step 2 early will either confirm or refute their suspicions. No real downside.

If it's the latter, taking the Step 2 so late they can't use it for admission decisions can only hurt.

That said, a 206 is lower than average but not so low that I think programs will question your ability to pass 2, 3, or the boards. My Step 1 wasn't much higher and I Maxie's without issue.

You'll be fine. I just mention this to suggest to others that scheduling a Step 2 late is not wise.

 

[Acyl chloride]

Extracurriculars show a big commitment to the underserved and minorities (I'm a minority as well).
Overview of where you want to end up: Literally anywhere ... . I'm really interested in serving "the underserved", minorities, HIV patients, substance abuse pts.
2. OHSU and UW (I have this weird fixation on the northwest - probably because it's a 180 change to where I am now...)
!

Since you are a minority, UW has a scholarship for doing an elective there during 4th year. If you mentioned that you were interested in the Idaho track it might help your case and you could spend some time on the west coast before interviews.
https://sharepoint.washington.edu/u.../Pages/SubinternshipDiversityScholarship.aspx



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[pitupua]

Since you are a minority, UW has a scholarship for doing an elective there during 4th year. If you mentioned that you were interested in the Idaho track it might help your case and you could spend some time on the west coast before interviews.
https://sharepoint.washington.edu/u.../Pages/SubinternshipDiversityScholarship.aspx

THANK YOU SO MUCH for this info!

I just mention this to suggest to others that scheduling a Step 2 late is not wise.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what's considered "late"?

 

[MidwestMD2015]

Thank you so much, that's super helpful! Good to know that most of the residencies are very LGBT-friendly. Actually since posting I've found my interests moving away from Triple Board and am enjoying adult psychiatry more and more...any thoughts on the range of general psychiatry programs that would be within my reach?

Your information is similar to mine in lots of ways, so I can at least mention some of the programs I interviewed with that I especially liked ('14-'15): Wash U, Yale, UCSD, Hopkins, UNC, MUSC, Colorado.

A few candid thoughts re:LGBT things limited only to my experience--Colorado's PD is openly gay and it felt like a very welcoming place. Anecdotally, it seemed that Yale had a large number of LGBT residents. Hopkins has a unique sexual behaviors unit. Lastly, Stanford as an institution has some interesting LGBT research, including LGBT medical education research.

Many others have excellent resources, but I hope this is a useful bit of info, and might give some food for thought when making your application list! Feel free to send a private message if you'd like.

 

[splik]

Hopkins is also quite LGBT friendly and has a unique sexual behaviors unit.

Ha! Seriously! Hopkins gets a D grade for LGBT friendliness and the sexual behaviors unit (which focuses on dealing with sex pests like pedophiles with chemical castrastion) is very questionable in terms of its LGBT friendliness. They even use the term "transsexualism" on their website as one of the "conditions we treat". The sexual behaviors consultation unit is staffed by people who are known to propound psychotherapy and medications for people who identify as trans or who have supported reparative therapy. The Hopkins model of Psychiatry (the Perspectives) was co-created by Paul McHugh who was chair of the department for many years, was the Vatican's chief apologist for the sexual abuse scandal, and stated the scandal was not about pedophilia but "homosexual predation". McHugh also famously shut down the gender identity clinic at Hopkins in the 1970s at a time when the hospital led the world in gender-affirming surgery, and remained closed ever since. McHugh is often trotted out by various hate groups or as an expert witness in cases to argue against rights for trans people, as have others in the sexual behaviors consultation unit. McHugh is such a major personality that even though he has retired he still has a strong grasp over the department and continues to attend grand rounds etc. The few transphobic psychiatrists I have come across (who were not conservative christians) either trained or worked at hopkins.

Psychiatrist and Fox News commentator Keith Ablow, has used his Hopkins training as background qualification to justify advocating that parents did not let their children watch transman Chaz Bono on Dancing With Stars some years ago.

I am sure it is fine place to work and the institution states it values diversity and inclusion and tries to distance itself from this and rewrite history. However such is the dogmatism of the Hopkins approached I would be very surprised if residents were not exposed to these views. Hopkins likes to see itself as apart from the rest of psychiatry, and this insularity allows more controversial and dangerous views to ferment. Iconoclasm in itself is not a bad thing, but unchecked and unchallenged it can be disastrous.