[2016] VSAS/Away Rotations Thread

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Hello there, current MS3s/rising MS4s.

There's been a recent influx of threads on the subject of away electives (when/where to do them, how many, requesting SLOEs, performing well, etc.) so I decided to create this thread. I figured this thread could serve as a centralized medium for VSAS/Aways/SLOE inquiries, making them more visible to all members and easily searchable, while also avoiding thread/topic redundancy.

So, let's get started with some suggested threads:
And some highly recommended learning resources:
Additional learning resources recommended by SDN members:
_________________

That's all for now. Ask & discuss away (no pun intended), and let's hope we can get as many current upcoming interns, current residents and faculty to help answer your questions!
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Thanks for making this.

Have people heard back from rotations at this point? I'm sitting on six applications with not a sound. Where have people heard back from?
 
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EMb52 said:
There is also a series of videos put together by ALIEM about VSAS, away rotations, interviewing, etc (links below). If you were like me and had difficulty finding a great EM mentor, rest assured the information in these videos is coming from some of the most prominent PDs across the country. Can't recommend it enough.

VSAS: http://www.aliem.com/2015/em-match-advice-vsas-101/
Away Rotations, ERAS, "Am I competitive": http://www.aliem.com/2014/em-match-advice-em-rotation-eras-competitive/
Click to expand...

This is phenomenal
 
doggydog said:
Thanks for making this.

Have people heard back from rotations at this point? I'm sitting on six applications with not a sound. Where have people heard back from?
Click to expand...
I've received a spot from a non-VSAS program. VSAS apps are still cookin.
 
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doggydog said:
Thanks for making this.

Have people heard back from rotations at this point? I'm sitting on six applications with not a sound. Where have people heard back from?
Click to expand...

Its early. I didn't even have my VSAS apps in until late April/early May last year. I started getting invites right around the beginning of June and had all 4 scheduled by July. Some places will offer you rotations only a few weeks before they start which is really annoying.
 
Can the advice from these threads also be applied to osteopathic students too? I feel the only difference would be the addition of USMLE and COMLEX scores... the rotations and SLOEs are where us future DOs would need to shine... correct?
 
Frazier said:
Programs that have offered spots 2016-17 (COPY FORWARD):
Alameda
Case/Metrohealth
Fresno
Henry Ford (non-vsas)
USC
Click to expand...
No.

Let's not turn this thread into a copy/paste apocalypse like the interview thread. There are many other productive ways in which this thread can be used (see opening post and suggested links).
 
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So far nothing. Sitting on VSAS apps for 4 schools. Most apps submitted the day schools opened, some over a month ago.
 
Frazier said:
The 2nd post of this thread already had demonstrated interest in where people heard from. There is apparently interest in the userbase for that information. Being this is the 2016 VSAS thread, it's a good place to house it.

Folks can post or not post. Either way, the decreased volume (of interest in vsas vs eras) will likely prevent it turning it into the interview threads copy/paste messes.
Click to expand...

i think it'll lead to a new level of neuroticism....real advice is to just call the program if you haven't heard within 4-6 weeks from the time you submitted. I was around 4-5 weeks and this time last year, I called the number listed and asked someone about it. They said they would look into it and then I got accepted the next day.
 
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Frazier said:
The 2nd post of this thread already had demonstrated interest in where people heard from. There is apparently interest in the userbase for that information. Being this is the 2016 VSAS thread, it's a good place to house it.

Folks can post or not post. Either way, the decreased volume (of interest in vsas vs eras) will likely prevent it turning it into the interview threads copy/paste messes.
Click to expand...

I intended for this thread have more of an educational tone, as well as serve as a Q&A for aways/SLOEs, not an endless thread to track VSAS acceptances. Please keep that out of this thread.
 
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doggydog said:
Thanks for making this.

Have people heard back from rotations at this point? I'm sitting on six applications with not a sound. Where have people heard back from?
Click to expand...

mega_colon said:
So far nothing. Sitting on VSAS apps for 4 schools. Most apps submitted the day schools opened, some over a month ago.
Click to expand...

When I was submitting applications, most of the auto-responses said that they won't even start to look at applications until about 2 months before the rotation is due to start, so a lot of people are probably going to be waiting for a while. I think the more popular ones review apps sooner due to demand and their screening process.
 
IH8ColdWeath3r said:
This is phenomenal
Click to expand...

I KNOW!!!

Seriously don't know what I would have done without them. Not sure why they aren't more popular/publicized on SDN.

And the best part about watching the videos (besides the amazing advice) is that I felt like I got to know the personalities of the PDs. Anecdotally, I met about 5 of the PDs in these videos during interviews and telling them "thanks for the ALIEM video" was a great ice breaker and they almost universally replied "oh, wow, I didn't think anyone would watch those". Plus, I felt like I already knew the PDs before walking into the interview so it took a lot of the pressure off.
 
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Other things to keep in mind for VSAS season (N=2 ways), in my experience:

Don't be surprised when you get accepted in April/May for an away in August/September...and get basically ZERO information about housing, schedule, etc until a few weeks/days before the actual start date. It sucks and can be frustrating, but just know it will work out :) I think that most larger programs (for the most part) are a well oiled machine, but it is usually one person handling all of the VSAS applications so they tackle them month by month.
 
QueenJames said:
Can the advice from these threads also be applied to osteopathic students too? I feel the only difference would be the addition of USMLE and COMLEX scores... the rotations and SLOEs are where us future DOs would need to shine... correct?
Click to expand...

Yes. Only difference is a lot of osteopathic programs you have to contact directly to get rotations. The "big" dual programs like Lehigh are on VSAS though.
 
I feel like as a DO student, I am at somewhat of a disadvantage, based on what the PD's said during that video.

It seems that they all highly value high pass/high honors on 3rd year clerkships, and as I have mentioned before, it is nearly impossible for students at my school to get honors. This is such a problem that our school has finally decided to change the criteria for honors (since less than 2% of students were able to obtain honors), but that won't go into affect until next year. The reason being, some of our preceptors have said that they wouldn't even give 5's to residents on a rotation, let alone a medical student. So, when the criteria to get honors are to BOTH, get a 4.8/5 on your eval AND have over a 110 COMAT score (very hard to do), it becomes virtually impossible.

The sad thing is, the school recognized that this would hurt our chances if students decided to do ACGME (but, since their primary concern is training a bunch of primary care/family physicians, and would prefer for them to do AOA or just match, they didn't address this and obviously gave false information, such as downplaying the importance of Step I and II and saying that many many schools soley accept the COMLEX).

Now, I wasn't naive enough to believe that and took step I (220's) and plan on taking step II, but, after watching those videos, I can't help but feel disheartened because my 3rd year clerkship grades are all P (pass).

I am hoping that my auditions can compensate for that.
 
It happens. My school brags to us about their grade deflation.

Riding a lot of P's and some HP's. The written portions are always really good, so there's not exactly congruence.

How are your narratives?
 
since we are applying to multiple aways, do we get charged the processing fee for every school we get accepted to, or just the ones that we decide to accept?
 
Acoustica said:
since we are applying to multiple aways, do we get charged the processing fee for every school we get accepted to, or just the ones that we decide to accept?
Click to expand...


You pay the VSAS fee once for each program when you submit your first application, but there is no additional charge to apply for more dates at that program. Some programs have their own application fees if you are accepted, some will make you pay for background checks and other charges before even looking at your app.
 
hey guys, long time lurker first time poster here. i just applied to my first desired away on VSAS. i was quickly rejected via email because i didn't include an insurance card on my application. they said in the email to just upload it and email them back so they can re-review the application.

now i am kind of freaking out about it, i know it's probably unwarranted but i have spent so much time and effort on vsas in the last few months and this is just so frustrating. our student coordinator made it sound like health insurance was one of the things she would verify in vsas for other schools (like good standing, malpractice, background check etc) so i didn't realize i needed to upload my own insurance card.

it seems like the whole game is just "who can get a complete application in first" and i thought i was ready to do that but alas, i was wrong yet again. can someone please tell me that i didn't just completely **** the bed by making this mistake?
 
bearstanley said:
hey guys, long time lurker first time poster here. i just applied to my first desired away on VSAS. i was quickly rejected via email because i didn't include an insurance card on my application. they said in the email to just upload it and email them back so they can re-review the application.

now i am kind of freaking out about it, i know it's probably unwarranted but i have spent so much time and effort on vsas in the last few months and this is just so frustrating. our student coordinator made it sound like health insurance was one of the things she would verify in vsas for other schools (like good standing, malpractice, background check etc) so i didn't realize i needed to upload my own insurance card.

it seems like the whole game is just "who can get a complete application in first" and i thought i was ready to do that but alas, i was wrong yet again. can someone please tell me that i didn't just completely **** the bed by making this mistake?
Click to expand...
Unnecessary neuroticism, looks like you're in the right place. Just resubmit it, I promise they won't hate you forever.
 
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doggydog said:
Unnecessary neuroticism, looks like you're in the right place. Just resubmit it, I promise they won't hate you forever.
Click to expand...

lol. i reapplied and got denied again. they said "see last email for instructions." it just said to attach the insurance card.

my application now has everything attached that they require. they insist repeatedly online "do not call us or we will hate you seriously." i sent a polite email stating i am really serious about wanting to do an away here and everything i need to apply is attached as far as i can tell so please send me instructions.

vsas is killing me, man.
 
Acoustica said:
since we are applying to multiple aways, do we get charged the processing fee for every school we get accepted to, or just the ones that we decide to accept?
Click to expand...

Jlaw said:
You pay the VSAS fee once for each program when you submit your first application, but there is no additional charge to apply for more dates at that program. Some programs have their own application fees if you are accepted, some will make you pay for background checks and other charges before even looking at your app.
Click to expand...

And once you're accepted you only pay processing fees to the ones you actually accept. That part isn't thru VSAS, the school will send instructions.



Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
 
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bearstanley said:
lol. i reapplied and got denied again. they said "see last email for instructions." it just said to attach the insurance card.

my application now has everything attached that they require. they insist repeatedly online "do not call us or we will hate you seriously." i sent a polite email stating i am really serious about wanting to do an away here and everything i need to apply is attached as far as i can tell so please send me instructions.

vsas is killing me, man.
Click to expand...

Yeah, VSAS is essentially an exercise in reading the fine (and hidden) print. The only way to make sure you have everything is to look at:
1. the school's page on VSAS
2. The school's visiting student page
3. The school's EM clerkship page

The clerkship page is the tricky one. Don't rely only on the links provided. It's frustrating, but you need to take the extra time to google the school's name + "emergency medicine clerkship" and see what pops up. I've found websites with explicit instructions on how to apply that I would have never have known otherwise.
 
lunalight said:
Yeah, VSAS is essentially an exercise in reading the fine (and hidden) print. The only way to make sure you have everything is to look at:
1. the school's page on VSAS
2. The school's visiting student page
3. The school's EM clerkship page

The clerkship page is the tricky one. Don't rely only on the links provided. It's frustrating, but you need to take the extra time to google the school's name + "emergency medicine clerkship" and see what pops up. I've found websites with explicit instructions on how to apply that I would have never have known otherwise.
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply. i've checked and rechecked all of those things and still haven't identified a problem. /sigh
 
Can someone break down the types of tests that we might have to do at the end of these rotations?

I know the Nbme is pretty hard - I've heard Rosh Review is alright, but people still have trouble doing well. Anyone use any resources that they would like to recommend?

There is also an SAEM test that some rotations have? That one is supposed to be easier? Any good resources for that?
 
bearstanley said:
hey guys, long time lurker first time poster here. i just applied to my first desired away on VSAS. i was quickly rejected via email because i didn't include an insurance card on my application. they said in the email to just upload it and email them back so they can re-review the application.

now i am kind of freaking out about it, i know it's probably unwarranted but i have spent so much time and effort on vsas in the last few months and this is just so frustrating. our student coordinator made it sound like health insurance was one of the things she would verify in vsas for other schools (like good standing, malpractice, background check etc) so i didn't realize i needed to upload my own insurance card.

it seems like the whole game is just "who can get a complete application in first" and i thought i was ready to do that but alas, i was wrong yet again. can someone please tell me that i didn't just completely **** the bed by making this mistake?
Click to expand...
Is it Orlando Health? It says to upload your insurance to the immunizations section.
 
KinesiologyNerd said:
Is it Orlando Health? It says to upload your insurance to the immunizations section.
Click to expand...

no, but i finally got a reply and my application is now under review. all that sweating for nothing, thankfully.
thanks again for the help, everyone.
 
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doggydog said:
Can someone break down the types of tests that we might have to do at the end of these rotations?

I know the Nbme is pretty hard - I've heard Rosh Review is alright, but people still have trouble doing well. Anyone use any resources that they would like to recommend?

There is also an SAEM test that some rotations have? That one is supposed to be easier? Any good resources for that?
Click to expand...

The NBME exam is very hard, to the extent that if I got wind of a particular rotation using that exam and weighing your shelf heavily, I would avoid. The SAEM exam, by comparison, is a complete joke.

Caveat: when I took the NBME shelf, I think it was the first or second year of its' use. They may have tweaked it in the time since.
 
bearstanley said:
thanks for the reply. i've checked and rechecked all of those things and still haven't identified a problem. /sigh
Click to expand...

Bummer, SOML as a med student: doing everything right and it's still not good enough

Glad to hear your app is under review now though!
 
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doggydog said:
Can someone break down the types of tests that we might have to do at the end of these rotations?

I know the Nbme is pretty hard - I've heard Rosh Review is alright, but people still have trouble doing well. Anyone use any resources that they would like to recommend?

There is also an SAEM test that some rotations have? That one is supposed to be easier? Any good resources for that?
Click to expand...

I took both the NBME shelf exam and the SAEM test. I did really well on both.

I took the NBME first and used Rosh Review and Case Files. I think these two resources complimented each other well.

My next rotation I took the SAEM test and only used the practice tests on the SAEM website. If you have taken the practice tests a couple times you'll ace the SAEM.
 
doggydog said:
Can someone break down the types of tests that we might have to do at the end of these rotations?

I know the Nbme is pretty hard - I've heard Rosh Review is alright, but people still have trouble doing well. Anyone use any resources that they would like to recommend?

There is also an SAEM test that some rotations have? That one is supposed to be easier? Any good resources for that?
Click to expand...

If your rotation includes the SAEM shelf at the end, use the CDEM website (see @lunalight's post). You should also receive online access to the SAEM Q Bank on the first day of your rotation. If I recall correctly there were ~500 MCQs.

If your rotation instead administers the EM NBME shelf exam, then purchase the Rosh Review Q bank (Medical student version). Just be aware of the fact that the site promotes its Q Bank as being "NBME-style" when in fact it really isn't. Despite the poorly written vignettes, the explanations are great and you do learn a lot from them. I only used this Q bank to prepare and ended up scoring in the 98th percentile (the clerkship director at this rotation went wild about my results).

EDIT: I have updated the OP to include the resources suggested by @Jlaw, @lunalight, and @EMb52. Thanks everyone.
 
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Thanks for the responses, guys.

My home rotation uses the NBME so I'm forced to endure that. Looks like I'll focus on Rosh Review - I learn better by doing questions anyway.
 
doggydog said:
Thanks for the responses, guys.

My home rotation uses the NBME so I'm forced to endure that. Looks like I'll focus on Rosh Review - I learn better by doing questions anyway.
Click to expand...

It really isn't that bad, just long (120 questions; all my other NBME shelf exams prior to this one had been 100 questions). I believe the most high yield topics on my version of the shelf were trauma, shock, chest pain, and abdominal pain. Very little subspecialty type stuff such as toxicology, EMS, or ultrasound.
 
Cinematographer said:
It really isn't that bad, just long (120 questions; all my other NBME shelf exams prior to this one had been 100 questions). I believe the most high yield topics on my version of the shelf were trauma, shock, chest pain, and abdominal pain. Very little subspecialty type stuff such as toxicology, EMS, or ultrasound.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think IM was my only one that was longer than 100 questions. I've had a lot of difficulty with the nbme exams during my third year and every MS4 at my school did terrible (read: average, which is like mid 70s) on it, so I'm a little skeptical of your 'isn't that bad'.
 
doggydog said:
I've had a lot of difficulty with the nbme exams during my third year and every MS4 at my school did terrible (read: average, which is like mid 70s) on it, so I'm a little skeptical of your 'isn't that bad'.
Click to expand...

Well, you can be skeptical of that part of my comment, sure. But don't ignore the topic distribution I mentioned above. Trauma, shock, chest pain and abdominal pain make up ≥80% of the exam. Other minor topics are shortness of breath, pelvic pain, kidney pathology. Most questions will ask for the "next best step in management" rather than "what is the most likely diagnosis".
 
I will echo using the CDEM curriculum website for prepping for the SAEM test. Keep in mind, that test is a joke...really. Especially if you are used to taking NBME exams which are well written. The SAEM interface is strange too, so doing some of the SAEM practice questions are helpful if only to not be caught off guard by how clunky it is, ha.

NBME for EM was tough, but fair (as I keep saying for all NBME exams). I used Case Files for EM and residual surgery clerkship knowledge (lots of bread and butter trauma questions) and hit the mid-80's. If you get neurotic like me and want more practice questions, I thought there was value in EM Pretest. Caveat: I used Case Files almost exclusively throughout MS3 so that was my go-to again and it served me well.

Awesome thread! I wish it was here last year!
 
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Hey guys, so my school does the COMAT exams. So, I don't know how the quality of the NBME exams, but I would imagine they are tenfold better than the COMAT exams that we have to take. The ER one that was first time administered this year was particularly terrible and I still don't know what my score stands for, but I passed, but not sure how well I did? Anyway, rant over.

So, I am not familiar with the resources you have mentioned but was hoping to get advice from some of you regarding the matter: I have an audition rotation coming up and on the website it states that 45% of the grade is based on the NBME ACE (National Board of Medical Examiners Advanced Clinical Exam)...is this the same thing as the NBME or does the ACE part make it different.

Unfortunately, due to my other audition, I will be doing 4 weeks worth of work/shifts in 3 weeks (this was recommended by the clerkship coordinator) so that I wouldn't have to drop my other audition. Obviously, time for studying will be limited and less, so, I want to get a head start so that I don't do poorly this exam and have it reflect poorly on my SLOE. I really need a good EM SLOE since it was borderline impossible (less than 2%,) to honors at my school.

What would you guys say is the best way to go about preparing for that?
I am going to buy the Rosh Review for 3 months as some have suggested
should I try to incorporate anything else into my studying? I have Case Files EM (haven't read it) and Tintinallis, both of which reference occasionally.
Unfortunately, time is of the essence since I still have to study for my remaining clerkships and their respective COMATS, and do Uworld, and review OMM for boards.


Basically, what is the best bang for my buck when preparing for this test.

And thank you to the residents who have chimed in on this forum. I have found it immensely helpful.
 
@IH8ColdWeath3r, your best bet is to focus on completing Rosh Review, which is doable in 3 weeks if you make time for it everyday of your rotation. Give yourself enough time to redo your missed ones, or at least redo the trauma questions. As for reading resources, the CDEM Curriculum website (see OP) is great and applicable to both the NBME and SAEM shelf exams. Try also the EM Basic podcast. I wouldn't spend time on anything else since you already have a limited amount of time to complete the Rosh Review Q bank.
 
Cinematographer said:
@IH8ColdWeath3r, your best bet is to focus on completing Rosh Review, which is doable in 3 weeks if you make time for it everyday of your rotation. Give yourself enough time to redo your missed ones, or at least redo the trauma questions. As for reading resources, the CDEM Curriculum website (see OP) is great and applicable to both the NBME and SAEM shelf exams. Try also the EM Basic podcast. I wouldn't spend time on anything else since you already have a limited amount of time to complete the Rosh Review Q bank.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I just bought the Rosh Review, the 3 month subscription. Figure I would get a head start and some familiarity. I will renew for a month if my sub runs out by then. I will definitely look into the resources that you mentioned as well.

Thanks again for the advice
 
Bump. Updated OP with the following:
The Student Advising Task Force (of CORDem) has put together several useful resources for students with an interest in Emergency Medicine, including an EM Residency Applicant Guide and Applicant FAQ.
Here are some examples of what you find on #FOAMed:

2016-04-13 at 21.51.png


2016-04-13 at 21.50.png

I find the whole EM #FOAMed scene on Twitter to be pretty awesome. Lots of EM program directors, residents, educators and important figures in the field have active accounts on there. It's a nice and professional way to stay up to date with the latest in EM news, literature, and conferences. If you already have twitter account and are looking for a starting point on whom to follow, look up @emresidents, then click on the "following" tab for user suggestions.
 
Cinematographer said:
Hello there, current MS3s/rising MS4s.

There's been a recent influx of threads on the subject of away electives (when/where to do them, how many, requesting SLOEs, performing well, etc.) so I decided to create this thread. I figured this thread could serve as a centralized medium for VSAS/Aways/SLOE inquiries, making them more visible to all members and easily searchable, while also avoiding thread/topic redundancy.

So, let's get started with some suggested threads:
And some highly recommended learning resources:
Additional learning resources recommended by SDN members:
_________________

That's all for now. Ask & discuss away (no pun intended), and let's hope we can get as many current upcoming interns, current residents and faculty to help answer your questions!
Click to expand...
The moderator staff think the work you've done on this thread, and the EM match thread this season, is really great and we have awarded you a $10 amazon gift card for making such helpful posts and thread.

Check your inbox for details and thanks for your contributions to SDN.
 
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@gutonc As I said via PM, thank you. Just giving back to the community after all the helpful advice I received on here last year.

Let's keep this thread going!
 
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