[2016] VSAS/Away Rotations Thread

[doggydog]

Got two rejection emails today from a rotation that rejected me the first time in April.

That's three rejections, for one rotation.

Can't wait for ERAS.

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[alpinism]

Got two rejection emails today from a rotation that rejected me the first time in April.

That's three rejections, for one rotation.

Can't wait for ERAS.

Was this program in LA?

Just curious.

 

[doggydog]

Was this program in LA?

Just curious.

Naw, different geographic location altogether.

 

[RandomVariable]

Hi everyone,

Just trying to pick your brains on a potential dilemma I'm facing regarding aways this year- I was offered a rotation at my top choice institution and a program that I potentially would very much like to attend for residency, but the only downside is that it would be in mid November-December when interviews are ramping up. It would potentially be too late for a SLOR getting me interviews to other places, but probably would be ideal in auditioning for that one site only.

Do you guys/girls think it'll be worth the hassle of scheduling all my interviews around/sacrificing a good chunk of holiday time with my family? I don't know if I would even be competitive for a potential spot on their rank list (it's not a super top EM program, but in a desirable location), as I'm non-traditional, subpar boards, good amount of EM research, and the rest of my family and wife are in the same state. Any thoughts? Also thanks to everyone in advance!

 

[alpinism]

Depends on how serious you are about the program.

If this is indeed your "top choice" or even in your "top 3" it would really help to rotate there and get face time with the PD/aPDs. Especially if your stats aren't that great and the program is moderately competitive. Another factor is that even after interviewing its still really hard to get a feel for many programs unless you rotate there. You'll be in a much better position to know if you really want to train there for the next 3 or 4 years.

That being said even if you do bust your a$$ and get honors you still may not end up matching there like you said. Plus depending on your 4th year schedule it may be extremely difficult to schedule all your interviews around a November to December rotation. Some programs may only have a few interview dates available to choose from during that time.

IMO unless you're very serious about the program and they offer automatic interviews I'd pass on the rotation.

 

[RandomVariable]

Points very well taken alpinism, thanks for your input.

Definitely not sure about the automatic interview, I was in a wishful mindset thinking that maybe since I'm there anyways they'd throw me a bone and give me an interview during that time haha. I am pretty serious about the program, but I'm trying to be realistic as well. Wish I could've gotten an early away here though.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Depends on how serious you are about the program.

If this is indeed your "top choice" or even in your "top 3" it would really help to rotate there and get face time with the PD/aPDs. Especially if your stats aren't that great and the program is moderately competitive. Another factor is that even after interviewing its still really hard to get a feel for many programs unless you rotate there. You'll be in a much better position to know if you really want to train there for the next 3 or 4 years.

That being said even if you do bust your a$$ and get honors you still may not end up matching there like you said. Plus depending on your 4th year schedule it may be extremely difficult to schedule all your interviews around a November to December rotation. Some programs may only have a few interview dates available to choose from during that time.

IMO unless you're very serious about the program and they offer automatic interviews I'd pass on the rotation.

I've heard this as well regarding November and December interviews. Same reason I am not auditioning in October (July, August, September). I think an October rotation makes it very difficult to get a SLOE in time and prevents you from going on interviews. If you LOVE the program, then I would rotate. Otherwise, I'd probably give it up in order to get more interviews in during that critical time. My school doesn't allow interviews or rotations during a holiday break so it's nice that your school allows that. Gluck

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

I've heard this as well regarding November and December interviews. Same reason I am not auditioning in October (July, August, September). I think an October rotation makes it very difficult to get a SLOE in time and prevents you from going on interviews. If you LOVE the program, then I would rotate. Otherwise, I'd probably give it up in order to get more interviews in during that critical time. My school doesn't allow interviews or rotations during a holiday break so it's nice that your school allows that. Gluck

October isn't exactly the hot time for interviews though. For instance, my October rotation ends October 23. Seems like that means I'll miss the first date or two for some programs.

 

[alpinism]

October is totally fine for rotations.

There are only a few programs that offer interview dates that early and most of them also have plenty of dates available in November and December.

 

[whoopthereitis]

guysss, need somebody to either calm me down or guide me cause I'm kinda freaking out!!! So I'm from the South and trying to open my application up to the North and West coast. I applied to 7 schools in California, got waitlisted to 2 of them (UCSD, UC Davis), rejected to 2 and waiting to hear back about waitlist (Almeada and Fresno), pending on 2 of them (Harbor and Olive), and just applied to 1 (Irvine). Then in the North, I applied to 6, got waitlisted to 2 of them (Cook and Cincinnati), and waiting to hear back from 4 (Georgetown, NYU, Mt. Siani, Indiana) . I'm trying to do aways in Sept and Oct and haven't even solidified 1 away yet, so I went to that excel and applied to a couple of more programs.

1. From yall's experience, how easy is it to get off the waitlist, or is that a way places just cushion a rejection
2. what more can I do!!! I've called, I've emailed and now this is me --> I even tried doing some "omms", stress eating, and curling up in fetal position and crying it out but figured somebody could give me their point of view and advice and calm me down

oh yeah edit: Im an MD student at an average school, average grades, average step. Pretty much right there in the middle...just for a frame of reference if one thinks this is relevant

premature thank yous to all

 

[Got Em]

guysss, need somebody to either calm me down or guide me cause I'm kinda freaking out!!! So I'm from the South and trying to open my application up to the North and West coast. I applied to 7 schools in California, got waitlisted to 2 of them (UCSD, UC Davis), rejected to 2 and waiting to hear back about waitlist (Almeada and Fresno), pending on 2 of them (Harbor and Olive), and just applied to 1 (Irvine). Then in the North, I applied to 6, got waitlisted to 2 of them (Cook and Cincinnati), and waiting to hear back from 4 (Georgetown, NYU, Mt. Siani, Indiana) . I'm trying to do aways in Sept and Oct and haven't even solidified 1 away yet, so I went to that excel and applied to a couple of more programs.

1. From yall's experience, how easy is it to get off the waitlist, or is that a way places just cushion a rejection
2. what more can I do!!! I've called, I've emailed and now this is me --> I even tried doing some "omms", stress eating, and curling up in fetal position and crying it out but figured somebody could give me their point of view and advice and calm me down

oh yeah edit: Im an MD student at an average school, average grades, average step. Pretty much right there in the middle...just for a frame of reference if one thinks this is relevant

premature thank yous to all

If you are an average U.S. allopathic student, you have a very high chance of matching, even if you don't get ANY aways (97% with step 1 of 230-239 per 2014 match outcomes). I'm assuming that you have a home program that can write you a SLOE.

I'm still in the process as well, but from speaking with multiple PDs and people who have matched, it is not an absolute requirement to have 2 SLOEs. 1 SLOE is the minimum for most places, and many people have matched with 1 SLOE.

There are 160+ EM programs in the U.S. If you apply very broadly, and you don't have any red flags, you will most likely match, even with a SLOE from your home program. If you have to match in one particular place or area, it may be harder, but not impossible.

I'm not sure if that has helped you any, but I feel your pain. However, please relax and know that you've already done what you could to get away rotations.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

guysss, need somebody to either calm me down or guide me cause I'm kinda freaking out!!! So I'm from the South and trying to open my application up to the North and West coast. I applied to 7 schools in California, got waitlisted to 2 of them (UCSD, UC Davis), rejected to 2 and waiting to hear back about waitlist (Almeada and Fresno), pending on 2 of them (Harbor and Olive), and just applied to 1 (Irvine). Then in the North, I applied to 6, got waitlisted to 2 of them (Cook and Cincinnati), and waiting to hear back from 4 (Georgetown, NYU, Mt. Siani, Indiana) . I'm trying to do aways in Sept and Oct and haven't even solidified 1 away yet, so I went to that excel and applied to a couple of more programs.

1. From yall's experience, how easy is it to get off the waitlist, or is that a way places just cushion a rejection
2. what more can I do!!! I've called, I've emailed and now this is me --> I even tried doing some "omms", stress eating, and curling up in fetal position and crying it out but figured somebody could give me their point of view and advice and calm me down

oh yeah edit: Im an MD student at an average school, average grades, average step. Pretty much right there in the middle...just for a frame of reference if one thinks this is relevant

premature thank yous to all

Hey there,
thanks for sharing. I feel your frustration and think most people here do as well. From looking at your list, it looks like you've essentially applied to a lot of top tier programs, as Cali is notoriously difficult to rotate at and places like Cincinnati, Mt. Sinai, Indiana are really respectable and competitive programs as well. I would try to just scramble and do an away just for the sake of getting a good SLOE. Probably not what you want to hear, but I think that it is very hard to secure an away at some of the places you've listed, especially with average grades and an average step. Best of luck to you!

 

[whoopthereitis]

If you are an average U.S. allopathic student, you have a very, very high chance of matching, even if you don't get ANY aways (97% with step 1 of 230-239 per 2014 match outcomes). I'm assuming that you have a home program that can write you a SLOE.

I'm still in the process as well, but from speaking with multiple PDs and people who have matched, it is not an absolute requirement to have 2 SLOEs. 1 SLOE is the minimum for most places, and many people have matched with 1 SLOE.

There are 160+ EM programs in the U.S. If you apply very broadly, and you don't have any red flags, you will most likely match, even with a SLOE from your home program. If you have to match in one particular place or area, it may be harder, but not impossible.

I'm not sure if that has helped you any, but I feel your pain. However, please relax and know that you've already done what you could to get away rotations.

thanks for giving me a big picture, that did help me relax. sending positive vibes your way bro

 

[whoopthereitis]

Hey there,
thanks for sharing. I feel your frustration and think most people here do as well. From looking at your list, it looks like you've essentially applied to a lot of top tier programs, as Cali is notoriously difficult to rotate at and places like Cincinnati, Mt. Sinai, Indiana are really respectable and competitive programs as well. I would try to just scramble and do an away just for the sake of getting a good SLOE. Probably not what you want to hear, but I think that it is very hard to secure an away at some of the places you've listed, especially with average grades and an average step. Best of luck to you!

No I think you're right. I just had so many people who just matched go do aways at such great schools with similar stats. Do you think getting a really good SLOE at an average program would be sufficient to open up some competitive places? I am taking your advice though, just applying to more and more places with the intention of just getting one. thanks

 

[Druggernaut]

My SLOEs were from pretty no-name places and I was still able to interview at a few of the upper echelon places, as a DO no less.

And for people applying in the future, don't wait for VSAS to open before contacting programs about aways. I only did one away through VSAS (Indiana), but even applying several months before VSAS opened and doing their pre-application, they were already booked up into the start of interview season, if memory serves.

 

[doggydog]

Medical school: where there is a secret tip for everything.

 

[buffpenguin]

What if you are not a medical student any more and can't access VSAS is there locations that offer rotations non vsas?

 

[EMhopeful2017]

Did anyone hear anything from Georgetown this year? I've emailed them and they said they are still processing apps, which I find hard to believe.

 

[whoopthereitis]

Did anyone hear anything from Georgetown this year? I've emailed them and they said they are still processing apps, which I find hard to believe.

so on their website they said that they will notify after june 16. funny enough thats today

 

[doggydog]

https://cdemcurriculum.com/2016/06/23/em-stud-podcast-away-rotations/

For those who have been worrying about only getting one away.

tl;dl: Of the PDs that they polled, ~95% wanted one SLOE in order to offer interview and two SLOEs by the time they rank.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Thread's gone quiet... How are the aways going? Mines been the bees knees so far. Really opened my eyes to how EM is practiced outside my happy little corner of the world.

 

[MackandBlues]

how do you know when to send your applications in to VSAS?

 

[EmilyRz1990]

Does anyone have a list of non VSAS programs? I've been waitlisted and / or denied from some of the programs I applied for and am thinking it would make sense to apply for some outside of VSAS due to the limited number of applications permitted through the system.

Thanks!

Emily
Class of 2017

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

how do you know when to send your applications in to VSAS?

It's almost all March/April and is the school's VSAS page.

Does anyone have a list of non VSAS programs? I've been waitlisted and / or denied from some of the programs I applied for and am thinking it would make sense to apply for some outside of VSAS due to the limited number of applications permitted through the system.

Thanks!

Emily
Class of 2017

Not sure about such a list, but just compare VSAS programs to all residency programs and there ya go.

 

[MackandBlues]

It's almost all March/April and is the school's VSAS page.


Not sure about such a list, but just compare VSAS programs to all residency programs and there ya go.

ok cool thank you.

 

[UCA2390]

Anyone doing a rotation at Henry Ford Hospital? Or know anything about how the rotation goes?

 

[kansasjayhawker]

Anyone doing a rotation at Henry Ford Hospital? Or know anything about how the rotation goes?

Saw this the other day on another thread which should help give you a better idea: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...udent-em-rotation.114708/page-2#post-17075823

 

[LovesBikes]

Question: I decided EM kinda late and applied for a couple of aways in mid-May/early June through VSAS. It's now nearing the end of July and I haven't heard anything from three programs for an August start date. Should I be contacting their program coordinators?

My advisor at school said not to contact them outside of VSAS, but I'm nervous about not being able to get a SLOE since August is the only month I have available (my school has several required rotations during fourth year and I drew a short straw, I have cores in July and September.) I go to a DO school and will be applying in both the AOA and ACGME matches. Am I completely screwed with only a SLOE from my home program (DO)? The only away I have currently doesn't start til mid-October, which I'm guessing is too late for a SLOE, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!!

 

[doggydog]

Question: I decided EM kinda late and applied for a couple of aways in mid-May/early June through VSAS. It's now nearing the end of July and I haven't heard anything from three programs for an August start date. Should I be contacting their program coordinators?

My advisor at school said not to contact them outside of VSAS, but I'm nervous about not being able to get a SLOE since August is the only month I have available (my school has several required rotations during fourth year and I drew a short straw, I have cores in July and September.) I go to a DO school and will be applying in both the AOA and ACGME matches. Am I completely screwed with only a SLOE from my home program (DO)? The only away I have currently doesn't start til mid-October, which I'm guessing is too late for a SLOE, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!!

I guarantee you that dozens of medical students have already contacted them (outside of VSAS) about the August rotation. Wouldn't hurt to try. August rotations were extremely difficult to get this year, you're in the same boat as a lot of people.

 

[racerwad]

Question: I decided EM kinda late and applied for a couple of aways in mid-May/early June through VSAS. It's now nearing the end of July and I haven't heard anything from three programs for an August start date. Should I be contacting their program coordinators?

My advisor at school said not to contact them outside of VSAS, but I'm nervous about not being able to get a SLOE since August is the only month I have available (my school has several required rotations during fourth year and I drew a short straw, I have cores in July and September.) I go to a DO school and will be applying in both the AOA and ACGME matches. Am I completely screwed with only a SLOE from my home program (DO)? The only away I have currently doesn't start til mid-October, which I'm guessing is too late for a SLOE, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!!

You should contact the programs. Be polite, obviously, but this is your future, so don't just sit on your hands and trust that things will work out.

If your home program has a residency, you could get a SLOE from them and apply with that. Mid-October may be a bit late for that SLOE to be useful from an interview invite perspective, but it will help during ranking for sure.

As a DO, I suggest picking one match. Good luck!

 

[LovesBikes]

You should contact the programs. Be polite, obviously, but this is your future, so don't just sit on your hands and trust that things will work out.

If your home program has a residency, you could get a SLOE from them and apply with that. Mid-October may be a bit late for that SLOE to be useful from an interview invite perspective, but it will help during ranking for sure.

As a DO, I suggest picking one match. Good luck!

Thanks! This was very helpful. I tend to do what I'm told by administration here because they can be--difficult to work with otherwise. My home program does indeed have a residency, so I will have at least one SLOE, but it will be from a DO program.

Why would you suggest picking one match? I am somewhat limited geographically because of my husband's job, which is why I was going to enter both matches.

 

[racerwad]

Thanks! This was very helpful. I tend to do what I'm told by administration here because they can be--difficult to work with otherwise. My home program does indeed have a residency, so I will have at least one SLOE, but it will be from a DO program.

Why would you suggest picking one match? I am somewhat limited geographically because of my husband's job, which is why I was going to enter both matches.

My admin was the same way. They didn't complain thought because I simply never told them anything.

Depending upon the geographic region, there are probably more acgme programs there than AOA. If that is not the case, then it might make sense for you to do both. The problem is, imho, is that until the match is a actually merged, you really don't have much benefit from trying both. Rotations at AOA programs are almost more important than SLOEs, but any SLOE you get from an AOA program won't have the same weight at ACGME places. And honestly, as a DO, you kind of have to rotate at ACGME places, too, to have a chance. At least the benefit there is that (depending on the place) a SLOE from an ACGME program might have some more use. Finally, since you are deciding late, you need to network as much as possible and going to both ACEP and ACOEP's residency fairs will be kind of tiring.

Also, since you are at already at somewhat of a disadvantage due to timing, you and your husband should have a conversation about the pros and cons of staying in a region vs not matching at all.

 

[House911MD]

Yeah, I'll be up there at the end of August and most of September. No idea how the rotation goes. Saw this the other day on another thread which should help give you a better idea: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...udent-em-rotation.114708/page-2#post-17075823

@kansasjayhawker any ideas if Henry Ford is one of the programs that offers automatic interviews if you rotate with them?

 

[LovesBikes]

Question: I decided EM kinda late and applied for a couple of aways in mid-May/early June through VSAS. It's now nearing the end of July and I haven't heard anything from three programs for an August start date. Should I be contacting their program coordinators?

My advisor at school said not to contact them outside of VSAS, but I'm nervous about not being able to get a SLOE since August is the only month I have available (my school has several required rotations during fourth year and I drew a short straw, I have cores in July and September.) I go to a DO school and will be applying in both the AOA and ACGME matches. Am I completely screwed with only a SLOE from my home program (DO)? The only away I have currently doesn't start til mid-October, which I'm guessing is too late for a SLOE, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!!

So, after contacting programs, one was full but offered me a later rotation, one had lost my application and put me on the waitlist for a September rotation, and one was confused that I edited the dates on their application (even after I cleared it with the program coordinator before applying) and offered me the top of their waitlist for August.
Moral of the story: don't do what I did and wait, contact programs early and never listen to anything your school tells you. After three years I should know better...

 

[yoloyoyo]

.

 

[ts173]

I would highly recommend contacting programs in a polite way through whichever person they list on VSAS as the contact. The only exception would be if they explicitly say on their VSAS page not to contact them. All of the away rotations that offered me a position I contacted directly. All of the ones I didn't contact (whom I assume others did contact) offered me a rejection.

 

[MelMcT2009]

Not sure if we should revive this thread, or make a new one for the upcoming season, but I'll start here! I've got a few questions.

- I've applied for 4 away rotations at a community hospital near my house. These arent EM rotations, but just random stuff to fill my schedule. Under the institution tab, these are ranked 1-4. From what I understood, designating an order was for the purpose of being able to obtain back up rotations if your top choices fell through. Is this the case? If so, what do I need to do to let them know that I actually am wanting all four of those months?

- I've applied for an EM away in September at a program that I'm very interested in. If I wanted to to increase my chances of getting a spot at this hospital, should I just apply for another date as well? If I were to do this and they offer a rotation, would they do it based on my date preference?

- Andddd last one....What is the thought on doing EM aways during interview season (probably January)?

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

Not sure if we should revive this thread, or make a new one for the upcoming season, but I'll start here! I've got a few questions.

1) I've applied for 4 away rotations at a community hospital near my house. These arent EM rotations, but just random stuff to fill my schedule. Under the institution tab, these are ranked 1-4. From what I understood, designating an order was for the purpose of being able to obtain back up rotations if your top choices fell through. Is this the case? If so, what do I need to do to let them know that I actually am wanting all four of those months?

2) I've applied for an EM away in September at a program that I'm very interested in. If I wanted to to increase my chances of getting a spot at this hospital, should I just apply for another date as well? If I were to do this and they offer a rotation, would they do it based on my date preference?

3) Andddd last one....What is the thought on doing EM aways during interview season (probably January)?

Can't speak to the first set of questions. As far as the 2nd, if you are really interested in the program I would recommend applying for more than one month. I believe you are accepted for a specific time slot, I'm not sure you would get to pick between the two. As far as 3) an away in January, or other prime interview months, is not a great idea: it would potentially get in the way of other interviews and would be unlikely to factor into your ability to get other interviews.

 

[swirish12]

Not sure if we should revive this thread, or make a new one for the upcoming season, but I'll start here! I've got a few questions.

- I've applied for 4 away rotations at a community hospital near my house. These arent EM rotations, but just random stuff to fill my schedule. Under the institution tab, these are ranked 1-4. From what I understood, designating an order was for the purpose of being able to obtain back up rotations if your top choices fell through. Is this the case? If so, what do I need to do to let them know that I actually am wanting all four of those months?

- I've applied for an EM away in September at a program that I'm very interested in. If I wanted to to increase my chances of getting a spot at this hospital, should I just apply for another date as well? If I were to do this and they offer a rotation, would they do it based on my date preference?

- Andddd last one....What is the thought on doing EM aways during interview season (probably January)?

I'll see if I can help out with the first two, even though I'm still navigating this whole process myself. I hope this is at least somewhat helpful (despite being two months late...)!

1. If you go to Tracking --> View by Institution --> Change Order, you can select how many electives you would like at the institution using the dropdown menu. I think changing that to 4 should let them know that you want all four electives and not just the first one with the remaining three as backup options.

2. I can't speak for how they would make their decision on what offer to make to you because nothing about this process seems to make any sense, but I think if you take the same steps as above (Tracking --> View by Institution --> Change Order), the second dropdown menu lets you choose which factor is most important to you (date, site, specialty, or none). You will also have them ranked there in that tab so they will already see that, for example, EM in September is your 1st choice and EM in October is your 2nd choice. I would apply to any and every date range that works for my schedule if it's a program I'm very interested in, especially since it doesn't even cost anything because you already paid the $15 institution fee for the first elective!