2017 & Beyond

[yungnaira]

Hi,

I'm a high achieving PharmD student with aspirations to work in a field of pharmacy that provides satisfaction. I've been fairly active on this forum, looking at threads that analyze the future of pharmacy and oversaturation.
Speaking from a student perspective, how difficult will it be for me to land a decent job when I graduate in 2017. I'm really trying here to take full advantage of the opportunities afforded to me. Leadership, work exp.. etc.

I plan on graduating w/a lil over $200k in debt. I absolutely refuse to work a slave retail job, as I am just not fast enough or have patience for that line of work (self-admission). Ideally, a job in industry suites my strengths. (advertising, marketing) I've considered PRN work in retail for income supplementation.

Where does this end for me. I strongly believe that pharmacy schools these days set up students for DISASTER. No life skills, money management skills, just a money making pipeline (Keystone XL anyone?)

All opinions are appreciated.

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[trailerpark]

Just work hard to differentiate yourself and you'll be fine.

 

[BidingMyTime]

How difficult it will be, depends on where you want to practice. If you want to practice in a large coastal city, you will have a difficult time finding a job. If you want to practice in Podunk, Nebraska, you will have a much easier time of finding a job. To get into industry, your best bet is to get an industry residency (which will be easier said than done.)

 

[yungnaira]

I'm on the East Coast and believe me, I see the saturation. Industry fellowships are extremely hard to come by. I haven't adequately networked in that realm.

My question is are pharmacist even needed in certain departments in the industry. My niche is advertising and marketing, solely based on work experience prior to pharmacy school.

Honestly I just get ****ing depressed thinking about life after school. The idea of going back to school after I graduate appeals to me more and more, but where are all these jobs going to come from? They can only open so many retail locations!!

 

[Jbrl]

I'm admittedly still a student as well. However, there are some things I've learned, from preceptors, professors, alumni, friends, experiences, etc. that I think may help you get out of the rut. The pharmacy outlook is bleak, that much is true. However, if you are good at what you do, you know what you have to offer, and you are able to communicate this to others, you will be just fine. If you are a "high achiever" with a vision, you WILL find a way.

There are a ton of things you can do with a Pharm.D., even in the business sector; you simply need to actively reach out and find these opportunities. I know several people who graduated from pharmacy school and got into fellowships this past year, in everything from Marketing to Regulatory Affairs to Medical Affairs.
The question that goes through your head the most, I'm guessing, is how to go about this.

Reaching out. Making friends ("networking" I hesitate to use this word because it has a mechanical connotation). Choosing industry rotations or reaching out to find your own if your school doesn't offer them. Getting industry internships over the summer. Engaging yourself in activities that you believe in and are passionate about so you will have something to talk about besides the usual I-was-treasurer-for-my-resume when you're interviewed for X fellowship/internship at Y company. Involving yourself in fulfilling projects where you are responsible for managing multiple people. Often times you will be asked, "Tell me about a time you failed," which is code for "tell me about a group project that didn't go well and what you did to try to fix it." Another question might be, "Tell me about a time where you didn't get along with someone in a group." Fail, and fail often so that you grow. When it comes time to interview you will have a repository of experiences to draw from.

What I have found is that the intangibles matter - a lot. I know people who got into fellowship programs who didn't do very much. They weren't the go-getters who were presidents of this, research publications that - they just had one or two things to talk about that they really invested time into, sold themselves and their level of interest in the position well, and connected with the interviewers emotionally. I know other people who did practically everything they were supposed to (and then some) but came across as arrogant or didn't have much personality, so no one would want to work with them for 2 straight years. Of course you have to stand out in some capacity, but don't think you have to move mountains.

I stated in another thread that one option for Pharm.D. students is Pharmaceutical Advertising. I know a few people who work in this sector and one of my professors teaches a class on it. It's definitely something you can look into. If you'd like to get into Industry Marketing and don't know how to begin, you can always try to arrange a rotation or internship at a pharma advertising agency to give you perspective, some experience, and a talking point. Don't know how? Simple - just ask. Google pharma agencies, small and large. Blare out emails expressing who you are and your interest. Opportunities won't be handed to you.

I also know people who did NOT get a fellowship. What they did was contact headhunters who would contract them out to pharma companies, usually in Med Info / Drug Safety / Pharmacovigilance and the like. Sometimes a friend of a friend has another friend who works in a company that has an opening. Once your foot is in, it's in, and you may be able to transition to other departments if you find you don't like these.

Again, it will all come down to you. In the end it becomes a matter of personal fit. Once you have the minimum credentials, getting your foot in the door in the non-traditional paths boils down to your resourcefulness.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Roughly 70% of all pharmacist jobs are in retail, so there is a huge chance you will end up there if you do not end up getting a fellowship or residency, which are very hard to land. It would be a better investment to get a PhD which you will not need to owe $200k+.

 

[gwarm01]

Roughly 70% of all pharmacist jobs are in retail, so there is a huge chance you will end up there if you do not end up getting a fellowship or residency, which are very hard to land. It would be a better investment to get a PhD which you will not need to owe $200k+.

I wonder what sort of future lies in retail pharmacy? I keep hearing of new graduates starting at 32 hours per pay period, which is effectively a pay cut. Will contraction of hours cause pharmacy to become a part-time profession in the future?

 

[yungnaira]

I completely agree Jbrl, I just need a foot in the door. Anyone heard of DIA or IPhO?

Also I think more and more companies will start to hire on call pharmacists in the retail setting. But there is no job security.

 

[SELDANE]

Hi,

I'm a high achieving PharmD student with aspirations to work in a field of pharmacy that provides satisfaction. I've been fairly active on this forum, looking at threads that analyze the future of pharmacy and oversaturation.
Speaking from a student perspective, how difficult will it be for me to land a decent job when I graduate in 2017. I'm really trying here to take full advantage of the opportunities afforded to me. Leadership, work exp.. etc.

I plan on graduating w/a lil over $200k in debt. I absolutely refuse to work a slave retail job, as I am just not fast enough or have patience for that line of work (self-admission). Ideally, a job in industry suites my strengths. (advertising, marketing) I've considered PRN work in retail for income supplementation.

Where does this end for me. I strongly believe that pharmacy schools these days set up students for DISASTER. No life skills, money management skills, just a money making pipeline (Keystone XL anyone?)

All opinions are appreciated.

You plan to graduate with more than $200k of debt into a field in which roughly 75% of the jobs are retail based. However, you don't want to be a "slave" to retail. Perhaps you should consider either changing your expectations or your major.

 

[SpartanLaser]

Hi,

I'm a high achieving PharmD student with aspirations to work in a field of pharmacy that provides satisfaction. I've been fairly active on this forum, looking at threads that analyze the future of pharmacy and oversaturation.
Speaking from a student perspective, how difficult will it be for me to land a decent job when I graduate in 2017. I'm really trying here to take full advantage of the opportunities afforded to me. Leadership, work exp.. etc.

I plan on graduating w/a lil over $200k in debt. I absolutely refuse to work a slave retail job, as I am just not fast enough or have patience for that line of work (self-admission). Ideally, a job in industry suites my strengths. (advertising, marketing) I've considered PRN work in retail for income supplementation.

Where does this end for me. I strongly believe that pharmacy schools these days set up students for DISASTER. No life skills, money management skills, just a money making pipeline (Keystone XL anyone?)

All opinions are appreciated.

It will be very tough. Most of the self proclaimed "high acheving students" still end up in retail due to lack of residency spots. In 2014, I believe only 50% of the students got matched up for residency when they applied. Start an internship, connections are everything now. I moved from East Coast to West Coast just for better job oppurtunities in RETAIL let alone hospital. Also, the aggregate demand map is your friend http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

It will be very tough. Most of the self proclaimed "high acheving students" still end up in retail due to lack of residency spots. In 2014, I believe only 50% of the students got matched up for residency when they applied. Start an internship, connections are everything now. I moved from East Coast to West Coast just for better job oppurtunities in RETAIL let alone hospital. Also, the aggregate demand map is your friend http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/

Around 67% I think.

 

[yungnaira]

I'm not hell bent on residency spots nor am I completely opposed to working retail. The bills have to get paid.

My frustration lies in the fact that there are little opportunities outside of the traditional community-hospital roles. I wish more pharmacists in auxiliary roles (industry, etc..) would reach out. I am aware that majority of the opportunities lie in networking.

Sidenote: I worked 14 hours today 1 Pharm.D/1 Tech and I swear I wanted to kill myself. My Pharm.D was telling me how the practice of pharmacy has shifted so much from knowledge based customer service to providing a meager service. It's all a big business. Whats the point of a Pharm.D? My question to everyone is that what happens when the executives figure out a way to do with less of what we are given now. Then what? Where is the profession of pharmacy going??

Sidenote 2: I want to open a dispensary, at least I'm familiar with that.

 

[Jbrl]

I completely agree Jbrl, I just need a foot in the door. Anyone heard of DIA or IPhO?

Also I think more and more companies will start to hire on call pharmacists in the retail setting. But there is no job security.

Both of those orgs are good. Definitely recommended that you be [actively!] involved in one or the other, but it's not anywhere near necessary.

I think, though, that you should focus less on "foot in the door" and more "live with purpose, improve your soft skills, and show your level of interest through your actions." Less like a student with a checklist and more like an adult with a mission. The rest will follow. This is my personal philosophy, anyway. It has served me very well up to this point (and hopefully will continue to do so).

If you don't mind me asking, where do you go to school? Are there opportunities for you for non-trad areas? e.g. mentors/preceptors/professors who have a wealth of experience to offer and want to share with you, non-trad companies around the area, classes focused on alternative career paths like advertising, industry, managed care, etc.

 

[BidingMyTime]

My question is are pharmacist even needed in certain departments in the industry. My niche is advertising and marketing, solely based on work experience prior to pharmacy school.

Pharmacists aren't "needed" in these department, but you would have a shot at a job in these departments (providing you know something about advertising and/or marketing.) Bear in mind, if you get hired in these departments, you will be paid the starting rate for these departments (not the starting rate of a pharmacist.) Still, you would probably have opportunities to move up to a better paying position.

 

[Jbrl]

Pharmacists aren't "needed" in these department, but you would have a shot at a job in these departments (providing you know something about advertising and/or marketing.) Bear in mind, if you get hired in these departments, you will be paid the starting rate for these departments (not the starting rate of a pharmacist.) Still, you would probably have opportunities to move up to a better paying position.

Starting wage is definitely lower. However, Pharm.D. tend to be paid more than normal because the science base is not easily teachable, especially as it pertains to conducting preliminary market research to position the product and speaking to clients who may have a science background. You would have a relatively valued skillset if you know both worlds. Some agencies are willing to teach you through internships/rotations.

I know someone who took a roughly 10-15% pay cut to work at an agency, which isn't terrible. Once you hit senior copywriter or account manager, your wage will go up to competitive levels (from what I have seen).

One example is FCB Health in New York City. I think they finished recruiting for their summer internships for the year, but you can always try to request a rotation there or elsewhere later, OP. St. John's University assigns people there for rotation and it's highly demanded from what I'm told.

 

[yungnaira]

Both of those orgs are good. Definitely recommended that you be [actively!] involved in one or the other, but it's not anywhere near necessary.

I think, though, that you should focus less on "foot in the door" and more "live with purpose, improve your soft skills, and show your level of interest through your actions." Less like a student with a checklist and more like an adult with a mission. The rest will follow. This is my personal philosophy, anyway. It has served me very well up to this point (and hopefully will continue to do so).

If you don't mind me asking, where do you go to school? Are there opportunities for you for non-trad areas? e.g. mentors/preceptors/professors who have a wealth of experience to offer and want to share with you, non-trad companies around the area, classes focused on alternative career paths like advertising, industry, managed care, etc.

I go to school in DMV (d.c/maryland/virginia) There are a few chances to network especially with all the agencies having their HQs in the region. In terms of marketing/advertising, if it isnt the FDA then it doesnt really exist. That is opportunities for students. And those opportunities are typically reserved for 4th year students during the APPE.

FCB Health is ideally a situation where I'd like to be. Make good use of my natural skills while implementing things I've learned in pharmacy.

 

[ICaPharmD]

@yungnaira I may have some suggestions for you off-SDN. PM me if you're interested.

 

[yungnaira]

Can someone explain to me exactly what the difference is between Med Affairs and Med Info? What kind of job/fellowship opportunities await for the newly minted Pharm.Ds? I've noticed based off current trends that a decent amount of pharmacists are satisfied with this particular track in the industry. I would appreciate any guidance. Thanks!!