3.14 cGPA, 3.05 sGPA, 506/509 MCAT

[Jaeoshi]

Hi all,

This is my first time posting on this forum (actually I just discovered this site a few months ago and I'm chastising myself for not finding this resource until now T.T). I am a 4th year, last quarter Biochemistry student at a University of California. As the title says, I have a 3.14 cGPA, 3.05 sGPA (roughly), 506 on first MCAT (taken in May 2015) and 509 on second MCAT (taken in September 2015). I applied for this past cycle to 21 MD schools, but got rejected from all of them. I am currently applying to SMPs and thinking of applying to DO schools as well.

As far as research, my experience is limited to 150~ summer hrs at USC Ophthalmology. Volunteering is negligible (hadn't acquired significant hrs). Work experience limited to 250~ summer hrs at a medical clinic as a scribe for a family physician and two pediatricians.

I have doctors in my family, but unfortunately my relationship with them is not good enough for them to go out of their way to help me (furthermore, they believe that getting too much help is not good for me in the long run).

Here's the thing: I know that with my record, applying to an MD program is not a viable option (not an excuse, but I lost someone really close to me during my first year and it hit me harder than I thought it would... never got back up). So now, I'm looking into SMPs and DOs. I'm firmly set on becoming a doctor because I really enjoyed the clinical work I did. I'd really appreciate any advice any of you brilliant and understanding people could give me to help me with my path.

Specifically, I'm looking for SMPs and DOs that would fit me, as well as any other gap-year alternatives I can utilize to improve my chances during a reapplication the following cycle. Thanks for taking the time to read this

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[CaffeineTwitch]

If I were you I would start volunteering, spend the year retaking C or lower classes, and apply D.O. in June 2017. I wouldn't do SMP unless you are somehow certain you can destroy it and you are M.D. or bust; because if you do poorly in it you will pretty much be done.

 

[Jaeoshi]

If I were you I would start volunteering, spend the year retaking C or lower classes, and apply D.O. in June 2017. I wouldn't do SMP unless you are somehow certain you can destroy it and you are M.D. or bust; because if you do poorly in it you will pretty much be done.

Thanks for the response! I'll look into volunteering around my area. The only issue I have with retaking classes is that I'm graduating this June and I'm already at my max allotted units for my school. I'll definitely consider DO, but I'm rather confident in my ability to do well in an SMP. The only issue I'm working around SMP is figuring out which programs are willing to accept me (obviously high-tier ones like Cincinnati and Georgetown are near-impossible).

 

[Faha]

You are a good candidate for some DO schools because your MCAT score is above the median for almost all DO schools. Apply in June to at least 12 from this list and you should receive several interviews
ACOM
BCOM
WCU-COM
LMU-DCOM
WVSOM
MU-COM
RVU-COM
UP-KYCOM
LUCOM
VCOM (all 3 schools)
LECOM
any new schools that open in 2017 (probably in Utah, Texas and Arkansas)
You can add any others in cities that appeal to you.

 

[italiancowgirl]

Without volunteering you are at high risk for rejection. You have to prove you are willing to spend your time working with the underserved. Go get your time in volunteering in clinical and non clinical settings. Get some shadowing time in (it really is different then scribing), and read posts in the reapplicant section to more fully understand what is expected of reapplicant in general. GL, and be patient. It is a long process, so take your time and do it right.

Edited for spelling

 

[Jaeoshi]

You are a good candidate for some DO schools because your MCAT score is above the median for almost all DO schools. Apply in June to at least 12 from this list and you should receive several interviews
ACOM
BCOM
WCU-COM
LMU-DCOM
WVSOM
MU-COM
RVU-COM
UP-KYCOM
LUCOM
VCOM (all 3 schools)
LECOM
any new schools that open in 2017 (probably in Utah, Texas and Arkansas)
You can add any others in cities that appeal to you.

That's great, thanks! I've heard that my MCAT score is decent, but my GPA is my bottleneck. I'll definitely apply to the schools on this list.

 

[Jaeoshi]

Without volunteering you are at high risk for rejection. You have to prove you are willing to spend your time working with the underserved. Go get your time in volunteering in clinical and non clinical settings. Get some shadowing time in (it really is different then scribing), and read posts in the reapplicant section to more dully understand what is expected of reapplicant in general. GL, and be patient. It is a long process, so take your time and do it right.

Yeah, that's one of my biggest concerns at this point. I think my lack of EC definitely contributed to my rejections. In your opinion, is it possible to attain enough volunteer experience by the time I apply this coming cycle? Or would you suggest taking this whole year off volunteering, shadowing, and generally building up my resume, and then apply for the cycle after this one?

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it

 

[italiancowgirl]

I think it would be quite risky to reapply without significant improvement. I would try to get feedback from the schools (always a good plan). With that GPA you have to prove you are absolutely worth it in every other area. If you look at it practically, you have a subpar GPA, a decent/good mcat, no volunteer clinically or non clinically, a tiny bit of research, and a tiny bit of work experience. As a comparison you should read through some of the reapplicant profiles. Many student's apps are better than your app in every way. I am not trying to be mean, I am just being honest so you can have a chance. You need to prove that you are the best pick in multiple ways to get accepted. Take advantage of the grade replacement to improve your GPA for DO schools, and work hard on volunteering etc. I would certainly wait a year in your shoes. GL

 

[ChrisMack390]

Volunteering is not optional! Get on that, ideally one thing in a hospital and another perhaps in a non-clinical setting.

 

[Jaeoshi]

I think it would be quite risky to reapply without significant improvement. I would try to get feedback from the schools (always a good plan). With that GPA you have to prove you are absolutely worth it in every other area. If you look at it practically, you have a subpar GPA, a decent/good mcat, no volunteer clinically or non clinically, a tiny bit of research, and a tiny bit of work experience. As a comparison you should read through some of the reapplicant profiles. Many student's apps are better than your app in every way. I am not trying to be mean, I am just being honest so you can have a chance. You need to prove that you are the best pick in multiple ways to get accepted. Take advantage of the grade replacement to improve your GPA for DO schools, and work hard on volunteering etc. I would certainly wait a year in your shoes. GL

I see. I have read through some profiles and I agree. I appreciate the honesty, it definitely helps me put my situation in perspective. When you say "take advantage of the grade replacement", what do you mean? I won't be able to retake classes at my school because I've nearly exceeded my max allotted number of units (essentially my school wants me out by the end of my 4th year ).

 

[CaffeineTwitch]

I see. I have read through some profiles and I agree. I appreciate the honesty, it definitely helps me put my situation in perspective. When you say "take advantage of the grade replacement", what do you mean? I won't be able to retake classes at my school because I've nearly exceeded my max allotted number of units (essentially my school wants me out by the end of my 4th year ).

There may be ways around having too many units. I am a non-trad and when I went back I was a already over the allowed units. All it really meant was I had to use a private loan instead of a federal one. Private loans aren't ideal , but if you could get rid of a few Ds or Fs it would help a lot.

As far as volunteering; it may look a bit tacked on if you apply in June.

Ultimately, you may be able to pull an acceptance next cycle but I think it would be much less risky working on your app for a year.

 

[italiancowgirl]

Look into the details of grade replacement. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but maybe @Goro can give more details. I don't think it has to be at the same institution. I know it can be done after graduation (as a non-degree seeking student or something).

 

[Goro]

Retake all F/D/C science coursework. It does as have to be at your UG school, as ICG mentions.

Look into the details of grade replacement. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but maybe @Goro can give more details. I don't think it has to be at the same institution. I know it can be done after graduation (as a non-degree seeking student or something).

 

[Jaeoshi]

Retake all F/D/C science coursework. It does as have to be at your UG school, as ICG mentions.

Sorry, but can I assume that you meant to type "It does[n't] have to be at your UG school..."?

 

[CaffeineTwitch]

Correct, it doesn't have to be the same school.

 

[justreachforthesky]

Hi all,

This is my first time posting on this forum (actually I just discovered this site a few months ago and I'm chastising myself for not finding this resource until now T.T). I am a 4th year, last quarter Biochemistry student at a University of California. As the title says, I have a 3.14 cGPA, 3.05 sGPA (roughly), 506 on first MCAT (taken in May 2015) and 509 on second MCAT (taken in September 2015). I applied for this past cycle to 21 MD schools, but got rejected from all of them. I am currently applying to SMPs and thinking of applying to DO schools as well.

As far as research, my experience is limited to 150~ summer hrs at USC Ophthalmology. Volunteering is negligible (hadn't acquired significant hrs). Work experience limited to 250~ summer hrs at a medical clinic as a scribe for a family physician and two pediatricians.

I have doctors in my family, but unfortunately my relationship with them is not good enough for them to go out of their way to help me (furthermore, they believe that getting too much help is not good for me in the long run).

Here's the thing: I know that with my record, applying to an MD program is not a viable option (not an excuse, but I lost someone really close to me during my first year and it hit me harder than I thought it would... never got back up). So now, I'm looking into SMPs and DOs. I'm firmly set on becoming a doctor because I really enjoyed the clinical work I did. I'd really appreciate any advice any of you brilliant and understanding people could give me to help me with my path.

Specifically, I'm looking for SMPs and DOs that would fit me, as well as any other gap-year alternatives I can utilize to improve my chances during a reapplication the following cycle. Thanks for taking the time to read this

Skip the SMP for now, your undergrad GPA will automatically disqualify you before they even look at the rest of your application. Do some post-bach to raise your undergrad GPA and retake any courses you may have failed (D.O. does grade replacement.) I think you're out of the running for American MD schools. Good luck!

 

[Jaeoshi]

Correct, it doesn't have to be the same school.

Would it be looked down upon if I take the classes at an institution that's not a 4-year university?

 

[Jaeoshi]

Skip the SMP for now, your undergrad GPA will automatically disqualify you before they even look at the rest of your application. Do some post-bach to raise your undergrad GPA and retake any courses you may have failed (D.O. does grade replacement.) I think you're out of the running for American MD schools. Good luck!

Ahh I see. I was under the impression that as long as my GPA is above a 3.0 and my MCAT is higher than 70%, I'd have a chance. I think MD isn't a viable option for me anymore too, so DO it is. I'll look into post-bach programs as well, however I don't have any D's or F's, mostly B-'s to A-'s, and a few C's.

 

[justreachforthesky]

Ahh I see. I was under the impression that as long as my GPA is above a 3.0 and my MCAT is higher than 70%, I'd have a chance. I think MD isn't a viable option for me anymore too, so DO it is. I'll look into post-bach programs as well, however I don't have any D's or F's, mostly B-'s to A-'s, and a few C's.

I think your MCAT is more than fine for D.O., but your GPA may not be especially if the poor grades are in science classes. Best of luck!

 

[Jaeoshi]

I think your MCAT is more than fine for D.O., but your GPA may not be especially if the poor grades are in science classes. Best of luck!

Good point. I've been scouring the forums for a thread describing the differences between an official "post-bach" program and simply retaking classes at another college. Would you mind shedding some light on this or point me in the right direction?

 

[justreachforthesky]

Would it be looked down upon if I take the classes at an institution that's not a 4-year university?

If the goal is fixing your GPA, I would not recommend this. Community colleges are frowned upon.

Good point. I've been scouring the forums for a thread describing the differences between an official "post-bach" program and simply retaking classes at another college. Would you mind shedding some light on this or point me in the right direction?

A post-bach is just under grad classes that are not taken towards a degree, and its taken after you already have your degree. It's to prove that your circumstances gave rise to the poor grades rather than your inability to handle a heavy course load, while also improving your undergrad GPA so you aren't screened out by computers before they can see the rest of your application.

 

[Jaeoshi]

If the goal is fixing your GPA, I would not recommend this. Community colleges are frowned upon.


A post-bach is just under grad classes that are not taken towards a degree, and its taken after you already have your degree. It's to prove that your circumstances gave rise to the poor grades rather than your inability to handle a heavy course load, while also improving your undergrad GPA so you aren't screened out by computers before they can see the rest of your application.

That's what I thought. I'll talk to my academic advisor for more details regarding which institution close to home would be appropriate for retaking courses. Say, for example, I take classes at UCLA (I live in the LA area), would that be a good idea? I should also include that I am currently a student at a UC.

In the meantime, I'll apply to post-bach programs as well per your suggestion. Thanks!

 

[justreachforthesky]

That's what I thought. I'll talk to my academic advisor for more details regarding which institution close to home would be appropriate for retaking courses. Say, for example, I take classes at UCLA (I live in the LA area), would that be a good idea? I should also include that I am currently a student at a UC.

In the meantime, I'll apply to post-bach programs as well per your suggestion. Thanks!

I'm not familiar with the LA area, sorry! You do not need a program per se, just register for classes as a non-degree non-matriculating student. I recommend going for the undergrad version of the SMP classes or redoing prereqs + math classes you did poorly in to boost your sGPA.

 

[Jaeoshi]

I'm not familiar with the LA area, sorry! You do not need a program per se, just register for classes as a non-degree non-matriculating student. I recommend going for the undergrad version of the SMP classes or redoing prereqs + math classes you did poorly in to boost your sGPA.

No, it's okay! Undergrad version of SMP classes? Do you mean Physiology, Histology, etc., courses?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

No, it's okay! Undergrad version of SMP classes? Do you mean Physiology, Histology, etc., courses?

I think he means a Do-It-Yourself PostBacc.

 

[gmbz]

DIY is the way to do it!

 

[change4med]

Honestly I think you could grade repair at a CC. I don't get why people frown upon it, I did some of my pre-reqs at a CC and when asked about why, I told them the truth, for the $$$ it would cost to take/retake 1 class at a UC, you could take 2 semesters worth of classes at a CC.... Your MCAT is pretty good for DO, so you doing well at a CC would not scare them off if they saw you could get that kind of score. Retake whatever C/D/F grades you feel until you reach whatever you feel comfortable with (3.3+ for both?).

I also think you need more volunteering with the community (feel free to PM me and I can talk about the clubs nearby you that I did? If you're in LA county). Also make sure you'll be able to get your letters of rec in around the time you're submitting your application (the earlier the better).

Also for that list of 12, if you're applying with the GPA now (or it is still below a 3.3 when you apply) I would personally take off RVU (I think you'd get rejected with your stats now) If you retake a class or two and do well enough to get your GPA to a 3.2/3.3 I'd add the Touros too (especially cause they nearby to you).

 

[italiancowgirl]

Honestly I think you could grade repair at a CC. I don't get why people frown upon it, I did some of my pre-reqs at a CC and when asked about why, I told them the truth, for the $$$ it would cost to take/retake 1 class at a UC, you could take 2 semesters worth of classes at a CC.... Your MCAT is pretty good for DO, so you doing well at a CC would not scare them off if they saw you could get that kind of score. Retake whatever C/D/F grades you feel until you reach whatever you feel comfortable with (3.3+ for both?).

I also think you need more volunteering with the community (feel free to PM me and I can talk about the clubs nearby you that I did? If you're in LA county). Also make sure you'll be able to get your letters of rec in around the time you're submitting your application (the earlier the better).

Also for that list of 12, if you're applying with the GPA now (or it is still below a 3.3 when you apply) I would personally take off RVU (I think you'd get rejected with your stats now) If you retake a class or two and do well enough to get your GPA to a 3.2/3.3 I'd add the Touros too (especially cause they nearby to you).

I don't agree with this idea. As I stated before reapplication means you have to be better than avg and really ready to leave them with no doubts in your mind. CC could give them doubt (there issa stigma that it is easier) so you would be better off in a 4 year if you can manage it (but I know it is expensive so do what you can). Wait and set yourself up to be successful. Do more than the minimum! GL

 

[change4med]

I don't agree with this idea. As I stated before reapplication means you have to be better than avg and really ready to leave them with no doubts in your mind. CC could give them doubt (there issa stigma that it is easier) so you would be better off in a 4 year if you can manage it (but I know it is expensive so do what you can). Wait and set yourself up to be successful. Do more than the minimum! GL

From what it sounds like, he never applied to DO schools, so he wouldn't be considered a re-applicant for those I think? My advice was based on him wanting to do a SMP (he'd get in somewhere now)/DO school. From my personal experience I didn't have many interviewers question too much why I took 2 years of classes at a CC, and I had a good amount of interviews with 3.35/30. But I do agree If he was MD or bust, and reapplying, I think I'd lean towards doing an SMP or taking more classes at a 4 year.

 

[DetectiveGrayson]

OP, I'm pretty much in the same statistical situation as you. After I graduated I got my crap together, and did a short-term DIY for about a 1 academic year's worth of courses. Although it was worth it to bump my GPA up a couple of points, it is very slow and steady and it requires almost doubling the amount of credit hours you earned through UG AND ensuring that your post-bac cGPA is significantly higher (if not 4.0) than your UG cGPA. This can be tedious, an extremely long journey and IMHO the upward trend is more valuable than the ever-so-slow upticks in GPA. For me personally, that is why I decided to just stop taking DIY courses and recoursing another plan of action (below).

Having said all that, I agree with many of the other posters here. If you need to have MD school in your app list, then invest in a good SMP or robust MP. But if you don't, people like you and me need to accept DO as our path if medicine is what we truly want (no shame in DO as it is a quickly arising side of medicine). I am going to be attending a post-bacc Masters program this fall and will apply in the future broadcasting to low-mid tier MDs and a vast amount of DOs. Good luck to you!