3.28 cGPA, 30S MCAT, "Solid" SMP

[NonTraditional3]

Hello,

Looking for some insight regarding my application for MD schools:

Went to Community College after graduating high school early (financial limitations + didn't know what I wanted to do with my life yet); had a very rough first semester - 2.58, eventually decided to major in biology....required to take Gen Bio, Gen Chem, English, O-Chem, Math, in order to transfer away to a bio program at a 4 year university....brought my GPA up from 2.58 to ~3.6 by the time I transferred. Transferred to a "top 25" university, and my overall (AMCAS) GPA was clobbered down from a 3.6 to ~3.3; science GPA is ~3.2.

Graduated with my bachelors in 2010, and took some "time off" to work in a laboratory. Stayed for a little over a year and a half. No publications, but left the lab for graduate school (on good terms) with a LoR offer.

Currently in my first semester of a 2 year MS program at a medical school. No transcript yet, but definitely on track for a 4.0 (perfect 100% on all exams, classes are not curved.) MS degree is in a "hard" life science discipline; is not an MPH.

Took MCAT summer 2012 and scored a 30 S (10 PS, 8 VR, 12 BS.) Spent summer 2012 shadowing a physician in one of the IM specialties, ~4 hours a week for 10 weeks. Currently shadowing a physician in one of the IM specialties at my schools hospital, ~6 hours week - they have agreed to let me shadow them for 8-12 weeks. Currently shadowing a pathologist who is also member of the teaching faculty at top 25 med school near where I live; they let me sit in on some of their classes and are teaching me (in small group with pathology fellows) diagnostic histology. Shadowing this pathologist ~7 hours a week over the course of the 2012-2013 academic year. Shadowed a cardiologist for 20 hours in one week through a shadowing program at my undergraduate school during winter break of my senior year. No letter, but a cool experience to discuss on application because of location/what I saw + it was my first shadowing experience. Volunteered ~120 hours in an emergency room over the course of 3 months (no LoR because I left on bad terms....(specifically, did not finish the duration/volunteer time promised, because I was offered a full-time job in a laboratory and the schedules conflicted.) Will be shadowing a neonatologist for 1 week (full-time schedule) during the 2012-2013 academic
winter recess. Currently volunteering ~5 hours a week in an urgent care center at a nationally recognized cancer hospital. I help patients with their non-medical needs, and I also do per diem interpretation (non-medical) in Spanish and Russian. Will hopefully clock ~200 hours or so before June 2013 (when I apply to MD schools) but plan on continuing volunteering there through the application cycle. Currently working part time in a stem-cell laboratory as a graduate research assistant. Potential for co-authorship on publication, but not likely to be published before I submit applications to medical schools. Was president/founder of a cardiology interest group in undergrad, and am currently the VP of the cardiology interest group at the medical school where I am doing my MS. As VP I am coordinating a community-outreach event that will provide free CV health assessments to the medically under-served in the area where my school is. I am also the VP of the Graduate Student Association and I am responsible for putting together a university wide student research symposium.

Have had the chance to travel and gain some "cultural exposure" on what I am told is considered by admissions committees "medical tourism"; was injured in a country where I did not speak the nation's language and had to go to the hospital to be treated - an absolutely frightening experience but in retrospect, gave me perspective on what emergency situations for non-English speaking immigrants in the USA are like....decided to study some foreign languages after this. Not fluent in any language, but have learned (through self-study, help from friends) Spanish, Russian, Norwegian. Currently expanding on my Russian, and will also learn Hebrew before applying in June 2013. Have seen the importance of knowing foreign languages in medicine both from the patients perspective as well as that of the physician (from shadowing.)

Overall, I have 16 LoR offers to sort through; I know the max that can be uploaded to AMCAS is 10 and most schools prefer no more than a maximum of 5 or 6 letters, but I just wanted to put that out that there that I have strong and plentiful LoR's to count on in my application.

I have zero interest in attending a D.O. school (hence I am doing my MS degree.) Hopefully will have a 4.0 GPA in 4 to 5 classes by the time I apply in June, and will complete the MS during the application cycle (and send update letters to schools as summer semester and fall semester grades are given post-submission of applications.)

If someone could please let me know what kind of application situation my 3.2sGPA/3.3cGPA, 30S MCAT, EC's and hopefully a 4.0 gGPA will create for me, it will be most greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

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[NonTraditional3]

bump

 

[TriagePreMed]

2-year MS? It sounds like you just got a masters degree, not an SMP. If it is not an SMP, you basically wasted your time since schools will probably judge it as the typical grad school grade inflation. Medical tourism is also a big waste of time. Most schools know you don't do anything with that. You would need a long term experience for it to count. And instead of wasting your time learning chunks of 4 languages, you would have been better suited learning one language in depth. 16 LOR doesn't matter since you'll have to pick 5 or 6 of them.

You say you have no interest in DO, but as it stands, even the stronger DO programs would not be on lock due to the GPA. However, the strong MCAT would get you a DO admission somewhere. I think it would be in your best interest to start considering the DO option. Apply to MD if you want, but don't forget to pray.

 

[Moosepig]

Does the Smp have any sort of agreement for automatic admittance? Surely a 30 4.0 would qualify?
Your Chances are okay, probably above okay in state. Oh and you're shadowing too much; you've got plenty of hours there. I could give you a percentage chances, say 60%, but I'd be spit balling.

Now I know you said you have Zero interest in DO, but I have to ask, if you want to be a doctor and you don't get an MD invite why wouldn't you be interested in DO?

 

[NonTraditional3]

Does the Smp have any sort of agreement for automatic admittance? Surely a 30 4.0 would qualify?
Your Chances are okay, probably above okay in state. Oh and you're shadowing too much; you've got plenty of hours there. I could give you a percentage chances, say 60%, but I'd be spit balling.

Now I know you said you have Zero interest in DO, but I have to ask, if you want to be a doctor and you don't get an MD invite why wouldn't you be interested in DO?

I really would prefer to avoid discussing "Why not DO"; I do not wish to appear to fervent about some of my career interests within the field of medicine, and I also would like to avoid inadvertently insulting those who tend to wear their heart on their sleeve regarding OMT. It is sufficient to say, however, there is far too much DO discrimination, and I am not interested in digging myself into $300K+ of debt, only to find myself not pursuing a career in the exact field of medicine I want to go into. I realize this may sound uninformed or even arrogant, but its pretty late where I am and I am just too tired to give an eloquent more thought out response to "why not DO". Bottom line is - I know I am capable of meeting the high standard necessary for MD, so I do not intend to sell myself short of what I can accomplish, even if it takes a little longer than it would if I settled on DO.

If I did not receive an MD invite, or if I am only wait-listed, I do have certain plans to improve my application before reapplying. There is only so much I can do to improve my application, and while I think upon applying in June 2013 I will have rectified the majority of my application's deficiencies as it stands currently, there are some smaller "holes" that I could see some of the more scrutinizing adcoms, and I would implement my plan to fix those, only if I needed to - I'm focusing on doing what I can do well, for the time being, without spreading myself too thin and jeopardizing good results for all things considered.


I hear that "you should do what you enjoy"; I enjoy being in the clinical setting, but I find that I am engaged, taught, and learn more when I am spending time with a physician about medicine and its challenges than I do when I am volunteering. I also enjoy the time I spent interacting with patients and their families when I am volunteering, but there is that element of scientific application that is lacking. Again, I enjoy shadowing, so why not continue to do so, even if it approaches a superfluous amount? Is it possible that too much shadowing can hurt my application? I don't think my shadowing is not balanced by a proportionate amount of clinical volunteering, do you?


60% chance for MD isn't too bad, coming from (and making up for) an undergraduate GPA like mine, right? Really trying to get my head around what you're saying here is all....


Thanks!

 

[NonTraditional3]

2-year MS? It sounds like you just got a masters degree, not an SMP. If it is not an SMP, you basically wasted your time since schools will probably judge it as the typical grad school grade inflation. Medical tourism is also a big waste of time. Most schools know you don't do anything with that. You would need a long term experience for it to count. And instead of wasting your time learning chunks of 4 languages, you would have been better suited learning one language in depth. 16 LOR doesn't matter since you'll have to pick 5 or 6 of them.

You say you have no interest in DO, but as it stands, even the stronger DO programs would not be on lock due to the GPA. However, the strong MCAT would get you a DO admission somewhere. I think it would be in your best interest to start considering the DO option. Apply to MD if you want, but don't forget to pray.

I think I wrote SMP mistakenly; my apologies if my thread title was misleading. Most employers are not particularly interested in SMP or postbacc, and since I need to be prepared to face the possibility of not being accepted to medical school in my first application cycle, a 2 year masters confers competitiveness in the job market, without being a terminal degree. So, I would argue, that a 2 year masters is not a waste of time. Not to mention that most SMP's require an MCAT, and I had not taken the MCAT when I applied to programs, and I did not want to sit for the MCAT without having adequately prepared myself for it.

 

[Moosepig]

If I did not receive an MD invite, or if I am only wait-listed, I do have certain plans to improve my application before reapplying. There is only so much I can do to improve my application, and while I think upon applying in June 2013 I will have rectified the majority of my application's deficiencies as it stands currently, there are some smaller "holes" that I could see some of the more scrutinizing adcoms, and I would implement my plan to fix those, only if I needed to - I'm focusing on doing what I can do well, for the time being, without spreading myself too thin and jeopardizing good results for all things considered.


I hear that "you should do what you enjoy"; I enjoy being in the clinical setting, but I find that I am engaged, taught, and learn more when I am spending time with a physician about medicine and its challenges than I do when I am volunteering. I also enjoy the time I spent interacting with patients and their families when I am volunteering, but there is that element of scientific application that is lacking. Again, I enjoy shadowing, so why not continue to do so, even if it approaches a superfluous amount? Is it possible that too much shadowing can hurt my application? I don't think my shadowing is not balanced by a proportionate amount of clinical volunteering, do you?


60% chance for MD isn't too bad, coming from (and making up for) an undergraduate GPA like mine, right? Really trying to get my head around what you're saying here is all....


Thanks!

No you cannot have too much shadowing. And continuing to pursue that is fine, if maybe less than optimal. I was just fearing you were misinformed about how much shadowing you needed.

I totally understand wanting to give MD admissions all you have. And I would even agree with applying and applying again if you are that set on MD. However, while OMM is a decent part of DO school, there's nothing saying you have to use it or even retain a shred of it after you're done with that class. As for the stigma, I think that varies by region and is quickly fading. With DO programs springing up and expanding, most everyone with a negative view of them will have that rectified by seeing and experience the level of care DOs can provide, which is for all intents and purposes identical to MDs. Besides, most people know nothing about the difference between DO and MD from my experience. When I told a group of nurses I volunteer with a DO school was opening here, they knew absolutely nothing about the differences between DO and MD.

Now this is your life so you're free to do whatever you like, but if you apply MD 2-3 times and don't get in, I think DO is a way better option than you are thinking. Regardless, I wish you the best in your applying!

 

[TriagePreMed]

I really would prefer to avoid discussing "Why not DO"; I do not wish to appear to fervent about some of my career interests within the field of medicine, and I also would like to avoid inadvertently insulting those who tend to wear their heart on their sleeve regarding OMT. It is sufficient to say, however, there is far too much DO discrimination, and I am not interested in digging myself into $300K+ of debt, only to find myself not pursuing a career in the exact field of medicine I want to go into. I realize this may sound uninformed or even arrogant, but its pretty late where I am and I am just too tired to give an eloquent more thought out response to "why not DO". Bottom line is - I know I am capable of meeting the high standard necessary for MD, so I do not intend to sell myself short of what I can accomplish, even if it takes a little longer than it would if I settled on DO.

I am a staunch supporter of osteopathic medicine as a way of becoming a physician, but even then, I know there are only like 6 people out there in the entire country that would "wear heart on their sleeve" for OMT. In fact, most DOs don't care about it at all. Personally, I'm curious of it, but if someone doesn't like it or doesn't want to practice it in the future, I don't see that as meaning that they can't becoming Osteopathic physicians. Where do you get this "far too much DO discrimination" from? It seems like it's mostly the dying off old guard that will be even less of when you practice that might care. And as for specialty, assuming that's what you mean by your goals in medicine, there are DOs practicing in all specialties.

I think I wrote SMP mistakenly; my apologies if my thread title was misleading. Most employers are not particularly interested in SMP or postbacc, and since I need to be prepared to face the possibility of not being accepted to medical school in my first application cycle, a 2 year masters confers competitiveness in the job market, without being a terminal degree. So, I would argue, that a 2 year masters is not a waste of time. Not to mention that most SMP's require an MCAT, and I had not taken the MCAT when I applied to programs, and I did not want to sit for the MCAT without having adequately prepared myself for it.

I think it's safe to say that my post referred to a 2-year masters as useless for purposes of gaining admissions into medicine. Under your definition, a masters in finance would be useful since it would help with the job market

The bottom line is: you aren't a very competitive applicant for MD, and depending on your home state, it may be worse than you think. If you really want to be an MD, you'll need to buckle up, retake the MCAT and do a real SMP because you need factors to mitigate that GPA, and don't fall into the trap of thinking extracurricular activities will save you, much less if you continue to go for quantity (many languages) vs quality (speaking 1 language very well). Shadowing is nice, but after a certain amount, it stops being impressive. Following around a person all day long doesn't show your capacity to become a physician or an altruistic nature. I would argue that beyond 100 hours (including primary care) extra shadowing won't help make or break your application.

 

[NonTraditional3]

I am a staunch supporter of osteopathic medicine as a way of becoming a physician, but even then, I know there are only like 6 people out there in the entire country that would "wear heart on their sleeve" for OMT. In fact, most DOs don't care about it at all. Personally, I'm curious of it, but if someone doesn't like it or doesn't want to practice it in the future, I don't see that as meaning that they can't becoming Osteopathic physicians. Where do you get this "far too much DO discrimination" from? It seems like it's mostly the dying off old guard that will be even less of when you practice that might care. And as for specialty, assuming that's what you mean by your goals in medicine, there are DOs practicing in all specialties.


I think it's safe to say that my post referred to a 2-year masters as useless for purposes of gaining admissions into medicine. Under your definition, a masters in finance would be useful since it would help with the job market

The bottom line is: you aren't a very competitive applicant for MD, and depending on your home state, it may be worse than you think. If you really want to be an MD, you'll need to buckle up, retake the MCAT and do a real SMP because you need factors to mitigate that GPA, and don't fall into the trap of thinking extracurricular activities will save you, much less if you continue to go for quantity (many languages) vs quality (speaking 1 language very well). Shadowing is nice, but after a certain amount, it stops being impressive. Following around a person all day long doesn't show your capacity to become a physician or an altruistic nature. I would argue that beyond 100 hours (including primary care) extra shadowing won't help make or break your application.

Current resident of New York State, Home State is Texas. I think I'll be okay, because I'm not a californian. We both know I did not mean the finance world.