3.4 GPA, 36 MCAT, TX res, non-URM - OOS school list advice?

[dragon mouse]

Non-trad, TX resident, neuroscience major at a top LAC
3.48 cGPA, 3.35 sGPA
36 MCAT (30P old score from years ago)

Clinical volunteering:
80 hours hospital volunteering, 1 semester
started volunteering at another hospital recently, post-grad

Shadowing:
60+ hours physician shadowing, plenty of specialty breadth

Research:
2 undergrad summers doing lab and clinical research (respectively) full-time
1 year full-time post-grad clinical research
6 months full-time post-grad doing lab/clinical research abroad

Employment:
besides research, was a teacher/private tutor ~1 year full-time
held part-time jobs for most of college, usually 2/semester (20 hrs/week?)

EC's:
strong commitment to civil advocacy work, with leadership, continued post-grad
a range of other activities - environmental justice, artistic endeavors (tons of artsy stuff actually)
traveled a lot post-grad and improved my foreign language skills


I'm applying to all TMDSAS schools, and I need help forming a solid AMCAS/OOS list. It's hard for me to judge by MSAR stats because my GPA is <10%ile but my MCAT is >90%ile for a lot of schools.

I know the reachy schools are reachy (Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Emory?, UCLA, UCSF, Sinai), but I don't want to leave myself wondering "what if?" ...That being said, I'm sure some/most of them will come off when it comes time to pay AMCAS. Hoping to submit by the end of the week.

Right now this is what I have. Suggestions on what schools to add for best fit/cost-benefit? If I match to a similar TX school, I probably won't go OOS. Debt is real.

Albert Einstein
Baylor
Boston
Case Western
Columbia (Bassett)
David Geffen UCLA
Emory
Mount Sinai
Tufts
Tulane
U Arizona-Tucson
UCSF (JMP)
U Rochester
Wake Forest
Warren Alpert Brown
Weill Cornell

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[dragon mouse]

I've been thinking about these too:

Dartmouth (eh maybe? plus, cold)
NYMC
Rosalind Franklin
USC Keck
Vermont (cold. haha)
Virginia Commonwealth

Is there a document out there that indicates if schools screen before secondaries?

 

[Lamel]

I think your best bet is TX schools. The main problem for your reaches is the GPA, which is below the 10%ile for most of them. Either way, keep the reaches and mid-tiers if you actually would want to go to them.

 

[dragon mouse]

I think your best bet is TX schools. The main problem for your reaches is the GPA, which is below the 10%ile for most of them. Either way, keep the reaches and mid-tiers if you actually would want to go to them.

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah, I know, best is TX, that's a done deal. I'm specifically asking about OOS here. Can you give me suggestions for schools? Or are you saying I shouldn't bother with OOS?

I know my GPA is the main problem for reaches, but GPA is my same problem for the majority of MD schools regardless of OOS/IS. As a non-traditional applicant with a high recent MCAT around 90%ile, I thought maybe my undergrad GPA counts for slightly less? Ever so slightly...

And yes, I definitely would want to go to those places, for specific things about the programs and many because of location-for example, a lot on the list are in NY because I have family there.

 

[dragon mouse]

Can any adcoms weigh in on this?
@Goro @Catalystik

 

[Catalystik]

Non-trad, TX resident, neuroscience major at a top LAC
3.48 cGPA, 3.35 sGPA
36 MCAT (30P old score from years ago)

Clinical volunteering:
80 hours hospital volunteering for a semester
started volunteering at hospital recently and plan to continue unless something comes up (like job offer in another location/med school matriculation), 1x/week for the rest of summer and will pick up more shifts after the HS kids go back to school

Shadowing:
60+ hours physician shadowing, plenty of specialty breadth

Research:
2 undergrad summers doing lab and clinical research (respectively) full-time
1 year full-time post-grad clinical research
6 months full-time post-grad doing lab/clinical research abroad

Employment:
besides research, was a teacher/private tutor ~1 year full-time
held part-time jobs for most of college, usually 2/semester (20 hrs/week?)

EC's:
strong commitment to civil advocacy work, with leadership, continued post-grad
a range of other activities - environmental justice, artistic endeavors (tons of artsy stuff actually)
traveled a lot post-grad and improved my foreign language skills


I'm applying to all TMDSAS schools, and I need help forming a solid AMCAS/OOS list. It's hard for me to judge by MSAR stats because my GPA is <10%ile but my MCAT is >90%ile for a lot of schools.

I know the reachy schools are reachy (Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Emory?, UCLA, UCSF, Sinai), but I don't want to leave myself wondering "what if?" ...That being said, I'm sure some/most of them will come off when it comes time to pay AMCAS. Hoping to submit by the end of the week.

Right now this is what I have. Suggestions on what schools to add for best fit/cost-benefit? If I match to a similar TX school, I probably won't go OOS. Debt is real.

Albert Einstein
Baylor
Boston
Case Western
Columbia (Bassett)
David Geffen UCLA
Emory
Mount Sinai
Tufts
Tulane
U Arizona-Tucson
UCSF (JMP)
U Rochester
Wake Forest
Warren Alpert Brown
Weill Cornell

I suspect that your transcript will be gone over with a fine-tooth comb. Were I to look at it, would I see low grades early on, one bad semester or maybe two midway, or a dive in grades during the last three terms? Or did you have the same GPA pretty much throughout?
What classes brought your BCPM GPA down? Did you refigure it according to AMCAS rules as well? And if so, how is it different?
Do you have a copy of the MSAR?

 

[gyngyn]

The problem you face is that good TX applicants always stay in TX unless we give them $. If you believe that you are recruitment scholarship material at any of the OOS schools you listed, go ahead and apply. If you are not, we will not interview you due to historical evidence of IS matriculation.

 

[DokterMom]

The problem you face is that good TX applicants always stay in TX unless we give them $. If you believe that you are recruitment scholarship material at any of the OOS schools you listed, go ahead and apply. If you are not, we will not interview you due to historical evidence of IS matriculation.

Exactly. What situation do you envision where you would go OOS?

• None of the TX schools accept you. (Unlikely, if you're a decent interviewer and your application is good.)
• You get into a stellar OOS school that makes the extra money worth it. (But with your lowish GPA, that's a long shot.)
• An OOS mid-tier offers you enough money to make it more appealing than staying IS. (But net-net, there are lots of other good applicants willing to pay retail.)

So I'd suggest saving your time and money and applying IS only.

 

[Goro]

GPAs are below avg, so you're going to have to set your sights lower. The reach schools will appreciate the donations in the form of your app fees. The "what if?" you thinking about for them will end up being rejection letters.


Naturally, All the UT schools, and TCOM.
Albert Einstein
Emory
Tufts
Tulane
Wake Forest
Rosy Franklin
Hoftsra
Albany
NYMC
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple
Penn state
SLU
MCW
EVMS
VCU
Rush
Any DO program
All other new MD schools

 

[dragon mouse]

I suspect that your transcript will be gone over with a fine-tooth comb. Were I to look at it, would I see low grades early on, one bad semester or maybe two midway, or a dive in grades during the last three terms? Or did you have the same GPA pretty much throughout?
What classes brought your BCPM GPA down? Did you refigure it according to AMCAS rules as well? And if so, how is it different?
Do you have a copy of the MSAR?

Honestly, my grades were poor in fall semesters and better in the spring. I can't imagine this is a common pattern. Not really sure how to explain the overall trend, other than some falls were heavy and by spring I decided to chill out. I could pinpoint specific events in a given semester, but I've been told not to 'explain' my grades unless asked specifically in interview.

Pretty sure my calculation is AMCAS-accurate. There's definitely one C in an upper level stats course that could/should have been an A in intro stats, but the professor (taught both) advised me to take the upper level when I was not adequately prepared. Different can of worms. I calculated and retaking a more appropriate level of stats for an A would bump my BCPM to ~3.4...eh. Also, orgo, and see above paragraph.

I have the 2011 MSAR. I figure admissions stats wouldn't have changed much in three years, but correct me if I'm wrong. Like I stated previously, it shows my GPA is <10%ile and MCAT >90%ile for a lot of the OOS schools I'm interested in. Unless there's some indication of which measure has more weight, it's difficult for me to use MSAR to gauge. Friendly reminder that I've been out of school for a few years. Took my MCAT this May.

Would it be fair to say that, as a TX applicant OOS, I'll have to bump up the MSAR averages? By how much?

 

[Catalystik]

Using a 2011 MSAR is fine, IMO.

I agree that you shouldn't try to explain away your grades, but I can appreciate that a transcript evaluation isn't going to be as reassuring to adcomms as I might have hoped. Your activities are comprehensive and interesting and (I think) will catch the eye. But I can't be reassuring that they are so strong that they will make T-20s and other Name-Brand Schools willing to overlook a cGPA and BCPM GPA that are in their bottom 10% historically, unless you are exmilitary, ex-Peace Corps, an Olympic Gold winner, or similar extraordinary achievement that you failed to mention.

I won't deter you including from some dream schools since you said 'I don't want to leave myself wondering "what if?"' But I suggest mainly picking schools where your GPA is above a school's bottom 10% and keeping safety schools near New York since you have a support network nearby to mention in related questions about "Why this school?". As you make your list, ask yourself, Would I really attend this school over Texas' newest school if accepted without financial aid offers? And, Would I really attend this school if I got no Texas acceptances, or should I complete some postbacc work with a 3.7+ GPA to make myself a stronger candidate in my home state?

As most schools don't advertise their formula for ranking applicants, in picking OOS schools, you might use the Lizzy M formula so that your high MCAT is compensated for by your lower GPA, with your score being 70. This googledoc, an SDN collaborative effort from 2011, can be sorted by Lizzy M score with the tab at the bottom: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...Ex2MjlBTDE0bXFXNGFZczZqYTZKb2c&hl=en_US#gid=0

Or you can download the spreadsheet data so you can fill in your own stats (on the “Your Stats” sheet at the very bottom), and it will tell you for which US med schools you’re competitive. You may need to add in any new schools not yet included.

Don't let your lack of a definitive OOS school list keep you from submitting your AMCAS application soon, as you can list just one school now and add others later after you've had the leisuretime for researching each one thoroughly. Right now, based on last year''s data, it will take about 50+ days for your transcripts to get verified.

 

[dragon mouse]

GPAs are below avg, so you're going to have to set your sights lower. The reach schools will appreciate the donations in the form of your app fees. The "what if?" you thinking about for them will end up being rejection letters.


Naturally, All the UT schools, and TCOM.
Albert Einstein
Emory
Tufts
Tulane
Wake Forest
Rosy Franklin
Hoftsra
Albany
NYMC
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple
Penn state
SLU
MCW
EVMS
VCU
Rush
Any DO program
All other new MD schools

Thanks. What about Rochester? The matriculant data spreadsheet told me to "go for it" but MSAR shows GPA 3.5-4.0.

 

[Goro]

Your GPA is < their 10th %ile and so I always consider that a waste of time to try.

Thanks. What about Rochester? The matriculant data spreadsheet told me to "go for it" but MSAR shows GPA 3.5-4.0.