3.41 sGPA 3.3 cGPA 514 MCAT

[j4w7]

science: 3.41
overall: 3.3
MCAT: 514 (35 on old score)
did post-bacc for pre-req classes. got 5 Bs on the science classes so it did not raise my oGPA by much
1.5 years of research
1.5 year clinical volunteer
summer of shadowing onco (50~hrs)
volunteering for homeless shelter (one summer)

Looking at MD schools but will apply to couple DOs

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[LuluLovesMe]

Race and state of residence will decide if you will get into an MD school with those stats.

 

[j4w7]

Race and state of residence will decide if you will get into an MD school with those stats.

Asian and from CA lol both are an uphill battle but heard the race thing is not much of an issue? at least thats what they tell me . probably not

chance me?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Asian and from CA lol both are an uphill battle but heard the race thing is not much of an issue? at least thats what they tell me . probably not

chance me?

Asian applicants with your stats have a 40% chance of getting into an MD program

https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstablea24-3.pdf

However this includes applicants in favorable states as well as Asians that might be considered URM.

I'd put your chances at around 35% to get into MD.

 

[j4w7]

Asian applicants with your stats have a 40% chance of getting into an MD program

https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstablea24-3.pdf

However this includes applicants in favorable states as well as Asians that might be considered URM.

I'd put your chances at around 35% to get into MD.

I knew those Bs in prereqs were going to come back and haunt me....I was planning to apply to 20 schools but with that low percentage and my terrible science GPA, I think I'm going to up it to 30 schools. Overkill or good justification?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I knew those Bs in prereqs were going to come back and haunt me....I was planning to apply to 20 schools but with that low percentage and my terrible science GPA, I think I'm going to up it to 30 schools. Overkill or good justification?

30 is a good number but apply to DO schools as well if you're set on starting med school next year.

 

[j4w7]

30 is a good number but apply to DO schools as well if you're set on starting med school next year.

So 30+??
Honestly those Bs were high Bs, I get As on my exams (hence the MCAT score) but mess up on labs and homework...is there a way to tell the adcoms that or they don't care?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

So 30+??
Honestly those Bs were high Bs, I get As on my exams (hence the MCAT score) but mess up on labs and homework...is there a way to tell the adcoms that or they don't care?

Some secondaries might give you space to explain any poor grades, but I wouldn't use that space to say things like that. It might come across as an excuse. Even if it doesn't, I don't think it would make a big difference. The only thing that helps a low GPA is an upward trend. A high MCAT will partially cover it, but it doesn't make up for it. If you had scored between 30-32, you'd only have a 27% chance so your MCAT is already helping you a lot.

30 is probably the most I'd apply to since secondaries are a pain to write and can get expensive. Plus if 30 schools turn you down, why would the 31st have a different opinion of your application?

A 35% chance is still very good and people have gotten into MD schools with lower stats so it's worth a shot for sure but you can't make plans assuming you'll get into an MD school.

 

[j4w7]

Some secondaries might give you space to explain any poor grades, but I wouldn't use that space to say things like that. It might come across as an excuse. Even if it doesn't, I don't think it would make a big difference. The only thing that helps a low GPA is an upward trend. A high MCAT will partially cover it, but it doesn't make up for it. If you had scored between 30-32, you'd only have a 27% chance so your MCAT is already helping you a lot.

30 is probably the most I'd apply to since secondaries are a pain to write and can get expensive. Plus if 30 schools turn you down, why would the 31st have a different opinion of your application?

A 35% chance is still very good and people have gotten into MD schools with lower stats so it's worth a shot for sure but you can't make plans assuming you'll get into an MD school.

So just bite the bullet and don't mention the low GPA at all? Aren't they going to ask why I got all those Bs during interview
Maybe 20 MDs and 10 DOs, with couple reaches and safe schools?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

So just bite the bullet and don't mention the low GPA at all? Aren't they going to ask why I got all those Bs during interview
Maybe 20 MDs and 10 DOs, with couple reaches and safe schools?

Nope. They won't ask about B's. I even got a C in Organic chem and was never asked about it. Your GPA is what it is and they will know it when you interview. All you can do is focus on the stuff you can change.

The space in secondaries is to explain if something significant happened that affected your grades. For example if a family member passed away or you got into a car accident.

Get the MSAR if you don't have it already. I'd suggest applying to:

1. Your state schools. All of them, even reaches.
2. 2-3 reaches - average MCAT around 33-34
3. 10-15 targets - 90% MCAT around 34-35 (watch out for mission based schools and exclude those)
4. 7-10 DO schools. Specifically, I suggest PCOM, CCOM, KCU, NYIT-COM. Add others that you feel are a good fit.

 

[j4w7]

Nope. They won't ask about B's. I even got a C in Organic chem and was never asked about it. Your GPA is what it is and they will know it when you interview. All you can do is focus on the stuff you can change.

The space in secondaries is to explain if something significant happened that affected your grades. For example if a family member passed away or you got into a car accident.

Get the MSAR if you don't have it already. I'd suggest applying to:

1. Your state schools. All of them, even reaches.
2. 2-3 reaches - average MCAT around 33-34
3. 10-15 targets - 90% MCAT around 34-35 (watch out for mission based schools and exclude those)
4. 7-10 DO schools. Specifically, I suggest PCOM, CCOM, KCU, NYIT-COM. Add others that you feel are a good fit.

Just asking about the Bs because times have changed. Nowadays, a B is frowned upon, it's crazy I know. Maybe I have the illusion of having anything less than a 3.5 means an automotive rejection. The MCAT is my saving grace.
Honestly, if I do get asked about the grades, I don't have any excuses. I tried and a B is what I got. So guess I have no excuses except I just don't have the smarts because nothing significant happened.

And I thought all schools had a mission statement...

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Just asking about the Bs because times have changed. Nowadays, a B is frowned upon, it's crazy I know. Maybe I have the illusion of having anything less than a 3.5 means an automotive rejection. The MCAT is my saving grace.
Honestly, if I do get asked about the grades, I don't have any excuses. I tried and a B is what I got. So guess I have no excuses except I just don't have the smarts because nothing significant happened.

And I thought all schools had a mission statement...

I applied the 2015-2016 cycle so I don't think what I'm saying is dated at all.

Schools like Rush have a 300 hour community service requirement and most of their accepted applicants have over 1000 hours of community service.

Some schools like UC Riverside serve a very specific area and won't accept applicants from elsewhere.

Schools like Mercer and Howard pretty much only take African Americans.

 

[j4w7]

I applied the 2015-2016 cycle so I don't think what I'm saying is dated at all.

Schools like Rush have a 300 hour community service requirement and most of their accepted applicants have over 1000 hours of community service.

Some schools like UC Riverside serve a very specific area and won't accept applicants from elsewhere.

Schools like Mercer and Howard pretty much only take African Americans.

If you don't mind answering, what school do you go to and what was your stat?
also, does my EC need work? I'm still in my research lab and planning to get published

 

[LuluLovesMe]

If you don't mind answering, what school do you go to and what was your stat?
also, does my EC need work? I'm still in my research lab and planning to get published

I'll PM you.

 

[Terror Billy]

You have excellent chances at DOs. Also with that MCAT score I'd say you have a fighting chance at MDs if you apply to enough schools

 

[j4w7]

You have excellent chances at DOs. Also with that MCAT score I'd say you have a fighting chance at MDs if you apply to enough schools

I was thinking about retaking my classes for a year and apply next cycle. I got Cs on calc 1 and calc 2 4 years ago (total of 10 units), which I think is the reason why I'm struggling to raise my GPA.
Maybe retake those Cs and retake my bio2 and gen chem2 classes which I got Bs on. Should I or just apply this cycle?

 

[Terror Billy]

I was thinking about retaking my classes for a year and apply next cycle. I got Cs on calc 1 and calc 2 4 years ago (total of 10 units), which I think is the reason why I'm struggling to raise my GPA.
Maybe retake those Cs and retake my bio2 and gen chem2 classes which I got Bs on. Should I or just apply this cycle?

It really depends on if you're willing to apply and actually attend DO. I understand the feeling of 4 credit calc bringing down your GPA (I'm on that boat too). I think with your stats you're a lock for DO, but MD might be more uphill, though less uphill if you apply to a ton (and are willing to shell out the $$$).

I only bring up willingness to go DO because I've seen quite a few threads here of people applying both, getting into DO and then not being sure because they still want to go MD. I would apply when you feel most comfortable of maximizing your odds for what you're looking for.

 

[j4w7]

I'm leaning towards the lower tier MD schools (3.4 GPA, 30 MCAT). How are my chances at those schools?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I'm leaning towards the lower tier MD schools (3.4 GPA, 30 MCAT). How are my chances at those schools?

"Low" tier MD schools are averaging around 3.6-3.8/30-32

Nobody can know your chances at those schools since almost everyone applies to them. Your numbers would be good enough for an interview but we don't know what other factors they are looking at when deciding who gets interviewed.

 

[j4w7]

"Low" tier MD schools are averaging around 3.6-3.8/30-32

Nobody can know your chances at those schools since almost everyone applies to them. Your numbers would be good enough for an interview but we don't know what other factors they are looking at when deciding who gets interviewed.

Should I just retake my MCAT? I feel like I can do better

 

[gyngyn]

Should I just retake my MCAT? I feel like I can do better

Right now you have the equivalent of a 33+. Frankly, it's the strength of your application.

 

[j4w7]

Right now you have the equivalent of a 33+. Frankly, it's the strength of your application.

There's no way to raise my GPA unless I do a bridge program or an SMP. What can I do now? I feel like applying next year even strategically, I won't get in anywhere for an MD school

 

[gyngyn]

There's no way to raise my GPA unless I do a bridge program or an SMP. What can I do now? I feel like applying next year even strategically, I won't get in anywhere for an MD school

I can't argue that your gpa is the weakness of your application, but another MCAT doesn't change that. A sustained period of excellence would improve your chances, even if the gpa didn't move much. You are good to go for DO.

 

[tantacles]

There's no way to raise my GPA unless I do a bridge program or an SMP. What can I do now? I feel like applying next year even strategically, I won't get in anywhere for an MD school

An SMP will NOT raise your GPA as it is a graduate program. If you want to raise your GPA, I would recommend taking college science classes a la carte.

Also, looking at the numbers (and assuming you're caucasian), applying now would give you a 47% chance of getting in.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

However, by applying smartly, you could greatly increase that chance.

 

[j4w7]

I can't argue that your gpa is the weakness of your application, but another MCAT doesn't change that. A sustained period of excellence would improve your chances, even if the gpa didn't move much. You are good to go for DO.

You mean to say I should apply after I take couple post bacc classes with an A? I would love to go to a DO school, it's just I've heard stories about matching into specialities because the school and the hospitals have not been established well like MD schools. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[j4w7]

An SMP will NOT raise your GPA as it is a graduate program. If you want to raise your GPA, I would recommend taking college science classes a la carte.

Also, looking at the numbers (and assuming you're caucasian), applying now would give you a 47% chance of getting in.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

However, by applying smartly, you could greatly increase that chance.

So should I be looking into MD schools with rankings around 70-100?

 

[tantacles]

So should I be looking into MD schools with rankings around 70-100?

What do you mean by "with rankings around 70-100"?

 

[gyngyn]

You mean to say I should apply after I take couple post bacc classes with an A? I would love to go to a DO school, it's just I've heard stories about matching into specialities because the school and the hospitals have not been established well like MD schools. Maybe I'm wrong?

You are a strong candidate for DO right now.
You could be a much stronger MD candidate in year with a sustained period of academic excellence (A's).

 

[j4w7]

What do you mean by "with rankings around 70-100"?

I'm going off the ranking from the US weekly I think. Or should I just ignore that and go straight onto MSAR?

 

[tantacles]

I'm going off the ranking from the US weekly I think. Or should I just ignore that and go straight onto MSAR?

MSAR.

 

[j4w7]

You are a strong candidate for DO right now.
You could be a much stronger MD candidate in year with a sustained period of academic excellence (A's).

I guess I can take a year off and take upper division sciences courses. I don't know how much that will affect my overall app though

 

[j4w7]

MSAR.

I saw MSAR, most of the GPA is around 3.5-3.8, so should I just target my MCAT scores and ignore the GPA differentials?

 

[gyngyn]

So should I be looking into MD schools with rankings around 70-100?

I guess I can take a year off and take upper division sciences courses. I don't know how much that will affect my overall app though

You need the MSAR, not just for gpa and MCAT ranges.
The main thing wrong with your MD application is that you have not demonstrated a sustained period of academic excellence.

 

[tantacles]

I saw MSAR, most of the GPA is around 3.5-3.8, so should I just target my MCAT scores and ignore the GPA differentials?

Target by LizzyM score. Use this calculator to figure it out:

http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/lizzym_score?reload=1&r=1463685515910

 

[j4w7]

You need the MSAR, not just for gpa and MCAT ranges.
The main thing wrong with your MD application is that you have not demonstrated a sustained period of academic excellence.

I did get three Bs in one semester, which was a fluke. After that, it's been mostly As. Does that count for anything? I was also doing my research paper, volunteering, and shadowing so it was a lot on my plate, but that's just an excuses

 

[j4w7]

Target by LizzyM score. Use this calculator to figure it out:

http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/lizzym_score?reload=1&r=1463685515910

My score is a 67 and there was a bunch of listings for allopathic schools, so I do have a fairly good chance if I apply strategically?

 

[GrapesofRath]

I would define a good "trend" as about 30 recent science credits of 3.7+ work. If you have that in your post-bacc perhaps give it a shot this cycle.

If not here are probably your two best options

1) Apply this cycle and apply to SMPs as a backup. I say this also largely because its too late to apply to SMPs in the fall by now. Youre a good candidate for the most reputable successful SMPs at getting people into US MD schools. But give it a shot at US MDs this cycle see if you get lucky and if not go the SMP route next fall. Do well in an SMP, youll likely be in the drivers seat for an MD acceptance in this situation.
2) Do some DIY PB work. 30 credits of 3.75+ work in upper level sciences would help boost your application a good bit even if the numerical GPA isnt changing that much. Apply summer 2017. You can also boost your ECs doing this as well. The downside is even with a better grade trend this will hardly ensure an MD acceptance in the 2017-18 cycle. An SMP if you do well will do a better job here at giving you the "boost" you want but it also requires 50k, moving across the country, will be rigorous/demanding and carries some inherent risk.

Retaking the MCAT here really isnt the solution. If anything, retaking and hitting a 518+ type score might only complicate your application in a way that might not be a net positive for you

 

[j4w7]

I would define a good "trend" as about 30 recent science credits of 3.7+ work. If you have that in your post-bacc perhaps give it a shot this cycle.

If not here are probably your two best options

1) Apply this cycle and apply to SMPs as a backup. I say this also largely because its too late to apply to SMPs in the fall by now. Youre a good candidate for the most reputable successful SMPs at getting people into US MD schools. But give it a shot at US MDs this cycle see if you get lucky and if not go the SMP route next fall. Do well in an SMP, youll likely be in the drivers seat for an MD acceptance in this situation.
2) Do some DIY PB work. 30 credits of 3.75+ work in upper level sciences would help boost your application a good bit even if the numerical GPA isnt changing that much. Apply summer 2017. You can also boost your ECs doing this as well. The downside is even with a better grade trend this will hardly ensure an MD acceptance in the 2017-18 cycle. An SMP if you do well will do a better job here at giving you the "boost" you want but it also requires 50k, moving across the country, will be rigorous/demanding and carries some inherent risk.

I did calculate the 30+ PB work with all As, it only still raises my sGPA only up to 3.54...
I do not think we Californians have an SMP program...only bridge programs

 

[GrapesofRath]

I did calculate the 30+ PB work with all As, it only still raises my sGPA only up to 3.54...
I do not think we Californians have an SMP program...only bridge programs

I see 3.41 listed in the original post

You are going to probably have to leave CA to do an SMP

 

[tantacles]

My score is a 67 and there was a bunch of listings for allopathic schools, so I do have a fairly good chance if I apply strategically?

As I mentioned before, 47% of caucasian applicants with your stats were accepted.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

Purchase the MSAR and input their median GPAs and MCATs into the same calculator.

http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/lizzym_score?reload=1&r=1463685515910

Apply first and foremost to schools at which your LizzyM score is higher than theirs, and then strategically add schools in after that where you are not lower than the 10th percentile in GPA. After that, feel free to add more schools that are a bit of a longer shot.

Make sure to avoid schools that don't take many OOS students.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

My score is a 67 and there was a bunch of listings for allopathic schools, so I do have a fairly good chance if I apply strategically?

Most schools with averages lower than 67 are strongly biased towards in state residents or are HBMC's. There are maybe 2-3 schools that you could apply to in that range.

 

[j4w7]

I see 3.41 listed in the original post

You are going to probably have to leave CA to do an SMP

Hmm maybe I put it wrong on my excel sheet...so it should go way over a 3.5?
SMP program sounds like a good Plan C...but it's a ton of loans

 

[GrapesofRath]

Hmm maybe I put it wrong on my excel sheet...so it should go way over a 3.5?
SMP program sounds like a good Plan C...but it's a ton of loans

Recalculate your GPA so you have a precise accurate number. 3.54 vs 3.41 is a noticeable difference.

Go through and identify specifically how many credits worth of recent A's youve had.

These are two crucial pieces of information. Hard to give advice without knowing what the correct numbers are. Figure out the exact numbers for both of these then come back and post

 

[j4w7]

As I mentioned before, 47% of caucasian applicants with your stats were accepted.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

Purchase the MSAR and input their median GPAs and MCATs into the same calculator.

http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/lizzym_score?reload=1&r=1463685515910

Apply first and foremost to schools at which your LizzyM score is higher than theirs, and then strategically add schools in after that where you are not lower than the 10th percentile in GPA. After that, feel free to add more schools that are a bit of a longer shot.

Make sure to avoid schools that don't take many OOS students.

But am I a Go for DO schools?

 

[tantacles]

But am I a Go for DO schools?

I'm not an expert on DO schools. Your stats are acceptable, but I don't know what they're specifically looking for.

 

[j4w7]

Recalculate your GPA so you have a precise accurate number. 3.54 vs 3.41 is a noticeable difference.

Go through and identify specifically how many credits worth of recent A's youve had.

These are two crucial pieces of information. Hard to give advice without knowing what the correct numbers are. Figure out the exact numbers for both of these then come back and post

Okay. But I gotta let you know, I did terrible on my GE classes. A lot of Cs but I have never gotten a C in any of my science courses. Is this still a lack of academic excellence?

 

[j4w7]

Recalculate your GPA so you have a precise accurate number. 3.54 vs 3.41 is a noticeable difference.

Go through and identify specifically how many credits worth of recent A's youve had.

These are two crucial pieces of information. Hard to give advice without knowing what the correct numbers are. Figure out the exact numbers for both of these then come back and post

So I have found that if I retake my calc 1 and 2 class which I got Cs on, it will average out to a B if I get As on it. Without any extra PB classes, my GPA shoots up to a 3.46 and my sGPA goes up to a 3.65
I understand MD schools do not do a grade replacement so thats the GPA I will be fighting with. Im betting my GPA would go way higher with the grade replacement for DO.

But if i do take PB classes of around 35-42 units, my oGPA goes up to 3.41 and sGPA goes up to a 3.53...

Suggestions?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Without any extra PB classes, my GPA shoots up to a 3.46 and my sGPA goes up to a 3.65

But if i do take PB classes of around 35-42 units, my oGPA goes up to 3.41 and sGPA goes up to a 3.53...

So it sounds like the PB actually hurt your GPA? In other words you had a 3.46 before the PB and a 3.41 after? Im guessing that means you probably only had around a 3.0-3.2 in your PB?

I wouldnt retake C's. Your DO GPA is fine. Retaking classes isnt going to impress anybody who works at MD schools.

 

[j4w7]

So it sounds like the PB actually hurt your GPA? In other words you had a 3.46 before the PB and a 3.41 after? Im guessing that means you probably only had around a 3.0-3.2 in your PB?

They were 4 unit classes with no labs. They weren't bad grades. They were Bs and As. It's just that my science grade fluctuates so much because I am a non traditional applicant. The classes I took were basic prereqs for majority of the med schools so it wasn't much. Still got 5 Bs in it though...

 

[GrapesofRath]

Still got 5 Bs in it though...

Do you have a number for what your PB GPA is specifically

Youve thrown some numbers throughout this thread that contradict themselves so it's harder to understand where you stand.

If I got it right it sounds like you took 30-40 PB credits to take all the pre-req courses. That PB work dropped your GPA from 3.46/3.65 to 3.41/3.54. If in fact you have a downward trend and your grades in pre-reqs are basically straight B's it might not be particularly advisable to apply this current cycle