MD & DO 3.5 cGPA, 3.1 sGPA, 29 MCAT, Non-trad, Re-app

[Misch Ievus]

Need Help with OOS MD list!

non-traditional, re-applicant, TX resident
~3.5 cGPA ~3.1 sGPA (upward trend in last few semesters, Dean's list in last three)
MCAT 29(P10, V9, B10), 25(P8, V9, B8), 29(P11, V10, B8)

Elected officer positions in two different student organizations for over 3 years
>3000 community volunteering hours (tutoring, etc.)
~100 hospital volunteering (during high school)
>200 hours of shadowing/medical observership
>200 hours of clinical research
Paid, full-time research at a top institution, past 2 years with 5+ publications

Strong LoR's from two upper-level science professors, one non-science professor, and my current PI (MD, PhD)

*EDITED
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I will be applying to MD and DO programs and will have completed all primaries and sent in all LoR's and transcripts by early June.

My previous application failed mostly because my MCAT had dropped, my application was very late, and my essays were not that great. I had applied to ~30 schools, but was not surprised when I wasn't invited for interviews...

I need your help:

1) What are some OOS MD and DO schools I should apply to? (I'm already applying everywhere in TX)

2) What are my chances with my current application?

3) If I'm not successful this cycle, what should I do to improve?

Thanks

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[Vain Brother]

you will be successful with DO schools. i'd stick to the texas schools and schools that have been open for <3-4 years for MD (other than hofstra, VaTech, and whichever MI school it is that has the IS bias)

 

[Nysor_bttw]

you will be successful with DO schools. i'd stick to the texas schools and schools that have been open for <3-4 years for MD (other than hofstra, VaTech, and whichever MI school it is that has the IS bias)

Agree and disagree. That science GPA is killer. I would avoid AMCAS altogether, as I can't imagine anything good coming of it. Focus on OOS DO and all Texas schools.

Misch Ievus, to be honest, your application is in poor shape. Although numbers do not make the applicant, and you've got a lot to show for yourself outside of scores, your science GPA and MCAT (a 29 after 3 attempts, not to mention no improvement over your first) reflect poorly on your study skills and ability to survive in medical school.

If I were you, I would not apply this cycle. Take a post bacc, medically oriented SMP, or take advantage of DO grade replacement to get your GPA up. Shadow a DO; get a letter. After that apply DO or, if you really want a shot at MD, ace the MCAT. We're talking 34-35 here. You've got something to prove at this point.

I know that sounded really doom and gloom, but you've dug yourself a bit of a hole. Your extracurriculars are wonderful, but what you've let fall by the wayside in the meantime is what will get you rejected.

 

[Foreveryours91]

I agree with Nysor. I would also just focus on DO schools, unless you are planning to do a SMP and focus on your MCAT. Looking at the trends on sdn, you have a decent shot for DO schools as of now. Your science gpa is your lowest point, but hopefully it can be made up by the other factors in your application.

 

[Misch Ievus]

I agree. GPA and MCAT are killing my app, but at this point, I don't have time to improve for this cycle. And I still want to try my chances. If this cycle doesn't work out for me, I am planning to take the new MCAT and reapply next cycle (I'm hoping it doesn't come to that). I wasn't planning to do an SMP; would retaking some science prereqs work?

I'm working on setting up DO shadowing and getting a letter. How critical is it for DO schools?

Also, do I really have no chance at all with AMCAS? I have FAP and get 15 free apps on AMCAS, so I was going to apply where I might have a shot..

 

[Nysor_bttw]

New MD schools may consider you! I don't know which ones they are, but if you have free applications you should use them. Note, I don't think that covers secondaries, so be wise in applying.

 

[DarthKat]

I feel like OOS MD will be really low yield. Your best shot for MD is in TX. Not only because TX schools have such a high instate bias, but also OOS private schools know how cheap TX schools are in comparison.

You should be applying to OOS DO schools.

 

[Foreveryours91]

I agree. GPA and MCAT are killing my app, but at this point, I don't have time to improve for this cycle. And I still want to try my chances. If this cycle doesn't work out for me, I am planning to take the new MCAT and reapply next cycle (I'm hoping it doesn't come to that). I wasn't planning to do an SMP; would retaking some science prereqs work?

I'm working on setting up DO shadowing and getting a letter. How critical is it for DO schools?

Also, do I really have no chance at all with AMCAS? I have FAP and get 15 free apps on AMCAS, so I was going to apply where I might have a shot..

I would maybe give some of the "low" tier MD schools a shot, but I wouldn't count on it. Your MCAT of 29 and sgpa of 3.1 is too low for these MD schools. Your EC is awesome, and the upward trend is a plus, but it doesn't change the fact that MD schools have probably an average of 3.6 or higher and/or 33 MCAT or higher.

For DO schools yes taking some science prereq to raise your sgpa would work; however, not for allopathic because they average all your scores. Like I said before SMP is your best shot if you absolutely want to allopathic. It seems to me you really want to go for MD schools, and if I want to give my own opinion I would say take a year or two off and focus on the MCAT and do an SMP.

As for the DO letters, some schools require it. Most do not. However it's a nice plus. Since you have free apps I would say go for it, considering it's not gonna cost you anything. But like I said before, I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Misch Ievus]

I don't think that covers secondaries, so be wise in applying.

Most AMCAS schools accept FAP and waive the secondary fee. It saves a ton of money!

It seems to me you really want to go for MD schools

Honestly, I'd rather get my medical career running as soon as possible. I was more pro-MD before my previous application, so I didn't apply DO (except TCOM), but with the state of my current application, I'm happy and willing to go the DO route.

Your best shot for MD is in TX.

That said, what are my chances in Texas?

You should be applying to OOS DO schools.

Any suggestions for where I should apply? I have MSAR for AMCAS schools but don't really know how to make a list for DO.

 

[DarthKat]

Well these stats include TCOM:
https://www.tmdsas.com/Final Statistics Report-EY14-Medical.pdf

 

[Misch Ievus]

Thanks for all the advice so far, everyone!

@Goro @gyngyn I would really appreciate your advice and suggestions regarding my situation as well.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

thanks for posting in my thread! ill do my best to chime in some advice from experience.

definitely apply broadly to DO (both IS and OOS). realize that if your end goal is to become a physician as quickly as possible, this is by far your best bet. your cGPA and MCAT are pretty strong for DO, plus your experiences will be more valued, so apply to literally every DO school you'd consider attending, and you will get in.

For MD, I don't think you're completely out of the running. if you have some unique or cool aspects of your app that can help you stand out that would help, but you still have some of a chance. might as well utilize those free apps and do all of Texas, plus some low tier OOS. research schools and try to gauge which will appreciate your app prior to applying. schools that received a ton of apps can be risky, but I had a lot of success at those ones so you can't count them out. I'll include some suggestions below. stay realistic yet hopeful and you'll be ok!

Suggestions (OOS MD, research which fit you, in no particular order):

virginia commonwealth
EVMS
Drexel
quinnipiac
Creighton
NYMC
Rosalind Franklin
The Commonwealth Medical
cooper
Vermont
Wayne (last 30 credits taken into account)
Temple
Albany
Hofstra
Tulane
Cincinatti
Oakland
Tufts
George Washington
Wright state

 

[Misch Ievus]

Thank you so much for the advice Doc! I plan to apply to as many DO's as possible. And I'll definitely apply to at least 15 OOS MD's as well as all TX schools.

The list you provided is a good start. I'll look into each one and go from there.

As for DO's, are there any I shouldn't apply to due to IS bias or incompatible stats?

 

[Goro]

Your best chances will be with the TX schools (except UT-H, UTSW and Baylor) and any DO school.

Hello SDN! I'm a non-traditional re-applicant and a TX resident. I have a ~3.5 cGPA and ~3.1 sGPA. I have an upward trend in my last few semesters and got on the Dean's list in the last three. I took the MCAT 3 times in consecutive years and scored 29(P10, V9, B10), 25(P8, V9, B8), 29(P11, V10, B8) in that order. I held elected officer positions in two different student organizations for over 3 years. I have >3000 community volunteering hours (tutoring, etc.) after high school and ~100 hospital volunteering hours during high school. I have >200 hours of shadowing/medical observership, >200 hours of clinical research, and I have been doing (paid, full-time) research at a top institution for the past 2 years with 5+ publications. I have very strong LoR's from two upper-level science professors, one non-science professor, and my current PI (MD, PhD). I will be applying to MD and DO programs and will have completed all primaries and sent in all LoR's and transcripts by early June.

My previous application failed mostly because my MCAT had dropped, my application was very late, and my essays were not that great. I had applied to ~30 schools, but was not surprised when I wasn't invited for interviews...

I need your help:

1) What are some OOS MD and DO schools I should apply to? (I'm already applying everywhere in TX)

2) What are my chances with my current application?

3) If I'm not successful this cycle, what should I do to improve?

Thanks

 

[Misch Ievus]

Your best chances will be with the TX schools (except UT-H, UTSW and Baylor) and any DO school.

I really appreciate the advice Goro. How likely is a TCOM interview for me?

If I'm not able to get a DO letter this summer, how much do you think that would hurt my chances?

If I am able to get it, I will send it out to schools separately so it doesn't delay my app. Is this a good idea?

 

[Goro]

TCOM should give you some love.
Lack of a DO letter will be lethal at schools that require it, like LECOM. Lacking one at other schools won't hurt. Having the DO LOR will always help.
Yes, you can send it separately.

I really appreciate the advice Goro. How likely is a TCOM interview for me?

If I'm not able to get a DO letter this summer, how much do you think that would hurt my chances?

If I am able to get it, I will send it out to schools separately so it doesn't delay my app. Is this a good idea?

 

[gyngyn]

I cannot recommend an OOS MD application.
Few schools interview TX applicants at all, I'm afraid.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I cannot recommend an OOS MD application.
Few schools interview TX applicants at all, I'm afraid.

someone mentioned "free apps" so I assumed FAP, hence my recommendations. it can't hurt if it's free!

As far as DO schools, don't limit yourself. there are some that don't take many OOS (oklahoma etc.), but as far as stats I think you have at least a chance at most.

 

[Misch Ievus]

someone mentioned "free apps" so I assumed FAP, hence my recommendations. it can't hurt if it's free!

Yes, it is FAP, so 15 free apps. If I have no chance at all, it might be a better idea to save them. FAP is now awarded for 2-year periods, but you can only apply the waiver on one cycle. I won't be eligible for another FAP ever again because I've been getting it every year since 2011. So, if I skip AMCAS this cycle and save the waivers, I can use it next year when I'll have a more competitive MD app (if I don't get in somewhere this cycle).

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Yes, it is FAP, so 15 free apps. If I have no chance at all, it might be a better idea to save them. FAP is now awarded for 2-year periods, but you can only apply the waiver on one cycle. I won't be eligible for another FAP ever again because I've been getting it every year since 2011. So, if I skip AMCAS this cycle and save the waivers, I can use it next year when I'll have a more competitive MD app (if I don't get in somewhere this cycle).

in my opinion, you shouldn't have that mentality. you should be thinking "this is my cycle" and do everything you can to make this the one. if you don't feel that way, then perhaps just waiting until the following cycle instead of this upcoming one is a better choice? up to you though. go big or go home in my opinion!

 

[Misch Ievus]

"this is my cycle"

Thanks for the encouragement Doc! I definitely do feel that way. And I'm hopeful that I will get in somewhere this cycle, MD or DO. But, the scary what-ifs of not getting in make me feel like I should mentally prepare myself for another cycle.

If I have the slightest chance of getting into an OOS MD program this cycle, I will definitely apply. And I'm not limited to the "free 15". I can go for 20 if that's what it'll take.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Thanks for the encouragement Doc! I definitely do feel that way. And I'm hopeful that I will get in somewhere this cycle, MD or DO. But, the scary what-ifs of not getting in make me feel like I should mentally prepare myself for another cycle.

If I have the slightest chance of getting into an OOS MD program this cycle, I will definitely apply. And I'm not limited to the "free 15". I can go for 20 if that's what it'll take.

now you're talking. idk your situation exactly but sometimes taking a year to strengthen your app can mean a world of difference (I took multiple lol), but if you're going to do it now, have a one and done mentality.

 

[Misch Ievus]

Suggestions (OOS MD, research which fit you, in no particular order):

virginia commonwealth
EVMS
Drexel
quinnipiac
Creighton
NYMC
Rosalind Franklin
The Commonwealth Medical
cooper
Vermont
Wayne (last 30 credits taken into account)
Temple
Albany
Hofstra
Tulane
Cincinatti
Oakland
Tufts
George Washington
Wright state

Doc, I was going over your suggestion list and some of these are public schools. Do I really have a shot at any OOS public school - IS bias and all? I was thinking of applying only to private OOS MDs..

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Doc, I was going over your suggestion list and some of these are public schools. Do I really have a shot at any OOS public school - IS bias and all? I was thinking of applying only to private OOS MDs..

these take a good amount of OOS people, and are known around the site as appreciating "reinvention" and "looking at the whole application". of course there's a lot of individuality to this process, but it's a good place to start.

 

[Misch Ievus]

Awesome! MSAR did show a lot of OOS matriculants for those schools. I just always assume those are applicants with stellar stats.. we'll see.. I'll post my lists soon. I appreciate all the help.

 

[Misch Ievus]

So, I sent in my AACOMAS last week to 17 schools. I did not include schools I definitely would not attend (for various reasons) and I'm holding off sending the application to a few others that require a DO letter until I know for sure I can get the letter.

I'm finishing up my TMDSAS and will submit this week (hopefully, it's not too late?). I'm applying to all schools (still waiting on that accreditation for UT Dell and UT Rio Grande Valley).

Now, I need to make a list for AMCAS. All I have is the huge preliminary list below. Please let me know what I should immediately cross off as I'm looking to apply to ~20 schools. Any additions are welcome, too.

Albany
Baylor (because Texas..)
Boston University
Case Western
Rosalind Franklin
Cooper
Creighton
Drexel
Eastern Virginia
Quinnipiac
Geisel
George Washington
Georgetown
Hofstra
Howard
Keck
Loma Linda
Loyola
Med Col Wisconsin
Meharry
Morehouse
New York Med Col
Oakland
Penn State
Rush
St. Louis
Sidney Kimmel
Temple
The Commonwealth
Warren Alpert
Tufts
Tulane
Cincinnati
Miami-Miller
Rochester
Vermont
Virginia Commonwealth
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Wayne State
Western Michigan
Wright State

 

[Misch Ievus]

Update:
-No love from TX schools
-No love from OOS MD's
-4 II's so far from DO's, went to 2, 1 waitlist, 1 acceptance (KCU-COM)

Thanks, everyone, for your advice and support!