3.8 sGPA, 3.7 cGPA, 36 MCAT...need your help

[MRpremed-dudeguy]

Hello everyone I am looking for your help in putting together my list of schools to apply to. Im looking to apply to 20-25 schools.

Background:
CO resident


Current List (so far):

Colorado
USUHS
UCLA
USC Keck
Creighton
Einstein
Drexel
Georgetown
Temple
Wake Forest
Pitt
Emory


...any advice is much appreciated!

looking for feedback in terms of schools to add/remove, thank you!

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[Holmwood]

Well... what are you looking for? Why pick those schools?

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Given your high numbers and research background I would aim for a few more top tier research heavy schools. Yea...throw in a few Ivies 'cause with your awesome jealousy inducing numbers why not? So much jealousy...getting really green with jealousy...hhhrrrnnggghh....

Have you bought the online Medical School Admissions Requirements (MSAR)? Best $20 ever. That'll definitely give you a nice summary of every medical school in the country and then some. Should definitely help you guide which schools to pick and which you might potentially like.

You're in a solid position to get plenty of interviews but I would personally advise that you take out Georgetown and Temple unless you feel like donating hundreds of dollars to their admissions departments. Quite frankly your numbers are too good for them.

Do you...actually want to go to Creighton?

Why USUHS? Just making sure you realize that by going to that medical school you are committing yourself to at least 15 years in the United States military.

You have another month and you say you have clinical volunteering. There should be doctors walking around in your department hopefully so just be nice and ask if you can shadow them.

 

[soccerusa]

drop creighton - nobody wants to live in nebraska and your stats are solid.

I concur with dropping temple and gtown based on above reasons.

apply to vandy and mt sinai. Both had the happiest students I met on the interview trail and vandy gave out a ton of $$$ for high stat applicants this cycle.

Also maybe consider UVA as a really solid school that you are a little bit above stats wise.

I'd consider dropping einstein and wake forest as I have heard questionable things from people that go/interview there. Replace with vanderbilt, mt sinai, duke, northwestern etc.

Finally, as mentioned above, pick a few super reaches (think penn, ucsf, stanford …) as it is definitely worth taking a shot with your stats.

 

[Goro]

I suggest the following (I'll let you cull it down):

Harvard OR Yale OR Stanford OR U Chicago
U AZ (both)
U Colorado
U VM
Ohio State
U IA
UCLA OR UCSD OR UCI
U Cincy
Miami
Albert Einstein
Tulane
Loyola
Emory
BU
USC
Baylor
JHU
Mayo
Pitt
Northwestern
NYU
Vanderbilt
Columbia
Sinai
Cornell
Duke
Case
Hofstra

 

[soccerusa]

I'll add another plug for Cornell if you are into the manhattan thing. Seemed like a really cool place when I interviewed and maybe not as selective as some other schools at that level.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

@Goro I'm curious behind the logic of "UCLA OR UCSD OR UCI" and "Harvard OR Yale OR Stanford OR U Chicago"? Emphasis of course on the "OR" and why not "AND".

 

[Goro]

Because your MCAT score is below the avg for the three top schools, I feel it's worth saving time and $ to try for one; ditto for the ultra competitive UC schools. You obviously have the luxury of many top schools to choose from.

@Goro I'm curious behind the logic of "UCLA OR UCSD OR UCI" and "Harvard OR Yale OR Stanford OR U Chicago"? Emphasis of course on the "OR" and why not "AND".

 

[GreatAdviceForPass]

Because your MCAT score is below the avg for the three top schools, I feel it's worth saving time and $ to try for one; ditto for the ultra competitive UC schools. You obviously have the luxury of many top schools to choose from.

If he is a California resident, despite how competitive some UC's are, he should still apply to all UC's. I know a guy that got rejected with 4.0 and 43 from UCSF but this other guy that got accepted with 3.8 and 32. In sum, you never know what the adcmo s looking for

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

If he is a California resident, despite how competitive some UC's are, he should still apply to all UC's. I know a guy that got rejected with 4.0 and 43 from UCSF but this other guy that got accepted with 3.8 and 32. In sum, you never know what the adcmo s looking for

OP is a Colorado resident.

Shadowing is controversial-- I've met plenty of applicants who've been accepted with out any shadowing at all. I don't think it's essential.

Shadowing is essential. Not for the application but for the applicant. So the applicant knows what he is about to do to himself and his bank account. Not everyone can earn a full ride scholarship

 

[amad01]

Overall, a good list. You may consider adding some slightly more competitive schools if your budget allows you. Don't apply to scatter shot-- for secondaries and interviews, you need to be able to justify why you want to go there.

Shadowing is controversial-- I've met plenty of applicants who've been accepted with out any shadowing at all. I don't think it's essential.

-B

I was asked to share a shadowing experience at every interview I attended

 

[ridethecliche]

I'd consider dropping einstein as I have heard questionable things from people that go/interview there.

Interesting, go on...

 

[Goro]

He's a Californian; he'll apply to the UCs whether the odds are good or not. It's in their DNA.

If he is a California resident, despite how competitive some UC's are, he should still apply to all UC's. I know a guy that got rejected with 4.0 and 43 from UCSF but this other guy that got accepted with 3.8 and 32. In sum, you never know what the adcmo s looking for

 

[WedgeDawg]

Because your MCAT score is below the avg for the three top schools, I feel it's worth saving time and $ to try for one; ditto for the ultra competitive UC schools. You obviously have the luxury of many top schools to choose from.

I would disagree with this, particularly because OP is a solid applicant who stands a strong chance of getting into a medical school. When you're a 36 applying to schools with median 37 (many of which are actually 36.6 or something) or 35 to 36 (same deal), the shotgun approach will make it more likely that one of them bites than putting all of your eggs in one basket. It's not like 3 more secondaries are /that/ much more time, effort, or money. Harvard doesn't even have a real secondary essay and Yale only has one! I think in this type of situation, it's smarter to apply to them all or apply to none at all. The odds of picking one that will bite are much slimmer than throwing out a bunch of lines and hoping that one takes the bait.

 

[Goro]

I feel that there's a difference between getting into A medical school and getting into a specific medical school.

I also feel that the higher one goes onto the pole, the slipperier it gets, meaning, the competition is become fiercer, and one has less wiggle room. Obviously, a 35 is competitive for, say, Stanford or Pitt, but a 35 is still below average. Therefore, one should consider if one if average, or above average when trying to get into the stratosphere.

In this game, strategic targeting will work better than a shotgun approach.

I would disagree with this, particularly because OP is a solid applicant who stands a strong chance of getting into a medical school. When you're a 36 applying to schools with median 37 (many of which are actually 36.6 or something) or 35 to 36 (same deal), the shotgun approach will make it more likely that one of them bites than putting all of your eggs in one basket. It's not like 3 more secondaries are /that/ much more time, effort, or money. Harvard doesn't even have a real secondary essay and Yale only has one! I think in this type of situation, it's smarter to apply to them all or apply to none at all. The odds of picking one that will bite are much slimmer than throwing out a bunch of lines and hoping that one takes the bait.

 

[TheRhymenocerous]

I feel that there's a difference between getting into A medical school and getting into a specific medical school.

I also feel that the higher one goes onto the pole, the slipperier it gets, meaning, the competition is become fiercer, and one has less wiggle room. Obviously, a 35 is competitive for, say, Stanford or Pitt, but a 35 is still below average. Therefore, one should consider if one if average, or above average when trying to get into the stratosphere.

In this game, strategic targeting will work better than a shotgun approach.

But can anyone really be strategic when it comes to selecting between top tier schools? Since it's not really possible to say that a particular person is more likely to get into Yale than Stanford, wouldn't that person be better served applying to both?

 

[WedgeDawg]

I feel that there's a difference between getting into A medical school and getting into a specific medical school.

I also feel that the higher one goes onto the pole, the slipperier it gets, meaning, the competition is become fiercer, and one has less wiggle room. Obviously, a 35 is competitive for, say, Stanford or Pitt, but a 35 is still below average. Therefore, one should consider if one if average, or above average when trying to get into the stratosphere.

In this game, strategic targeting will work better than a shotgun approach.

My question would be how do you strategically target which medical schools to apply to, particularly if you're an "average top-tier candidate"?

Someone with a 3.8/36 is around average for top tier schools, but how would they know whether Cornell is more likely to bite than Duke, Stanford, or Chicago? There just isn't any way to tell that, particularly when you're on this side of the application process. If you're not a realistic candidate, you shouldn't be applying to these schools at all, but if you're around the average, there's no way to figure out which schools might be more favorable towards you just by looking on their websites and on the MSAR. Yes, a 36 is below average if the average is 37, but that's such a trivial difference (could honestly be one question) that it's probably not meaningful. I would wager that at that point, it's the other parts of your application that make the difference for top schools.

At Columbia's revisit, the dean of admissions told us the least interesting part of our application was our numbers. This leads me to believe it's more of a "you have them or you don't" mentality and they're more interested in what else you have to bring to the table. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to guess which "what else" will be important to which school, which is why picking only one is nearly always a recipe for disappointment.

 

[Goro]

As you correctly point out, the ECs start to play a more significant role. My take on research, as the wise Mimelim has pointed out a number of times, is that productivity has to be considered. Some top schools (Columbia, Duke, Yale) seem to like non-trads, but the others might just as well, but I just haven't seen evidence for that posted yet.

There are times in looking at WAMC posts that you'll note that I tell people that "you're golden" or "Aim high", so some info in their post leads me to say that, as opposed to my more cautious approach to OP. With other posters, I think that a top school is fine, but their time might be better aiming for, say, A OR B OR C + D OR E OR F.

You're also correct, Dawg, in your 2nd para....essentially agreeing with me when I tell people that stats get you to the door, ECs get your through the door."

I suspect that we're closer in viewpoint than our posts here are letting on.

My question would be how do you strategically target which medical schools to apply to, particularly if you're an "average top-tier candidate"?

Someone with a 3.8/36 is around average for top tier schools, but how would they know whether Cornell is more likely to bite than Duke, Stanford, or Chicago? There just isn't any way to tell that, particularly when you're on this side of the application process. If you're not a realistic candidate, you shouldn't be applying to these schools at all, but if you're around the average, there's no way to figure out which schools might be more favorable towards you just by looking on their websites and on the MSAR. Yes, a 36 is below average if the average is 37, but that's such a trivial difference (could honestly be one question) that it's probably not meaningful. I would wager that at that point, it's the other parts of your application that make the difference for top schools.

At Columbia's revisit, the dean of admissions told us the least interesting part of our application was our numbers. This leads me to believe it's more of a "you have them or you don't" mentality and they're more interested in what else you have to bring to the table. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to guess which "what else" will be important to which school, which is why picking only one is nearly always a recipe for disappointment.

That's where this business becomes an art form, rather than science.
But can anyone really be strategic when it comes to selecting between top tier schools? Since it's not really possible to say that a particular person is more likely to get into Yale than Stanford, wouldn't that person be better served applying to both?

 

[675015]

[QUOTE="
...any advice is much appreciated! [/QUOTE]

Did he ever ask a question or pose a problem?

 

[WedgeDawg]

As you correctly point out, the ECs start to play a more significant role. My take on research, as the wise Mimelim has pointed out a number of times, is that productivity has to be considered. Some top schools (Columbia, Duke, Yale) seem to like non-trads, but the others might just as well, but I just haven't seen evidence for that posted yet.

There are times in looking at WAMC posts that you'll note that I tell people that "you're golden" or "Aim high", so some info in their post leads me to say that, as opposed to my more cautious approach to OP. With other posters, I think that a top school is fine, but their time might be better aiming for, say, A OR B OR C + D OR E OR F.

You're also correct, Dawg, in your 2nd para....essentially agreeing with me when I tell people that stats get you to the door, ECs get your through the door."

I suspect that we're closer in viewpoint than our posts here are letting on.




That's where this business becomes an art form, rather than science.
But can anyone really be strategic when it comes to selecting between top tier schools? Since it's not really possible to say that a particular person is more likely to get into Yale than Stanford, wouldn't that person be better served applying to both?

I think we mostly agree and are arguing semantics and minor points, but I'm game as long as they help prospective applicants make smart decisions regarding their applications or at least help them to think critically about the strength of their applications and the competitiveness of their list.

 

[MRpremed-dudeguy]

Thank you everyone for your feedback it has been very helpful reading your input.

Do you...actually want to go to Creighton?

I have heard good things from creighton students and I like its proximity to my home state of colorado.

Why USUHS? Just making sure you realize that by going to that medical school you are committing yourself to at least 15 years in the United States military.

I am interested in military medicine and am heavily considering pursuing a career in military medicine whether it is through USUHS or HPSP.

There are times in looking at WAMC posts that you'll note that I tell people that "you're golden" or "Aim high", so some info in their post leads me to say that, as opposed to my more cautious approach to OP.

Was there something specific with my stats or ecs that lead you to this more cautious approach with me?

I was asked to share a shadowing experience at every interview I attended

As is it now with my clinical experiences I feel I could share various "shadowing" experiences through my time observing and interacting with physicians through my volunteering. Do you still think it is essential I do some formal shadowing before I submit my app?

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

I am interested in military medicine and am heavily considering pursuing a career in military medicine whether it is through USUHS or HPSP.

Excellent. Just make sure you do your due diligence of talking with several military physician veterans before signing on the dotted line, if you haven't done so already.

 

[Donald Juan]

Shadowing is essential. Not for the application but for the applicant. So the applicant knows what he is about to do to himself and his bank account. Not everyone can earn a full ride scholarship

I agree with this 100%. You'll almost assuredly be fine getting tons of interviews with your application the way it stands, but you should REALLY get some time in with a doctor for yourself. I don't know what your clinical volunteering experiences are exactly, but chances are you may not have learned exactly what a physician does day-to-day. You should do it for yourself so that you don't hate your life in a few years when medicine is not what you expected.

Also, you've got volunteering, athletics, social activities (frat), lots of research, a publication, and a kickass GPA/MCAT. Why not just put a nice bow on this package you've made and make it all around perfect.

 

[MRpremed-dudeguy]

n

 

[resiroth]

Lol UCSF is not a match. I (and many others) have stats that make top 5 "safeties" just based on stats. It rarely works out that way. Do not fall prey to this philosophy, it will not serve you well.

I would axe UCs completely but up to you, just know they're sort of like Georgetown and BU in that you may be throwing money away more than you would be elsewhere.

 

[MRpremed-dudeguy]

I didn't realize that math courses were part of science GPA so my stats are actually, 3.7 sGPA 3.7 cGPA and 36 MCAT.....

I have come up with the following list after thoroughly going through the MSAR and taking into account the comments on this thread. Does the list look too top heavy??

Colorado
USUHS
Yale
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Cornell
Sinai
NYMC
Mayo
Case Western
Duke
UCSF
UCLA
USC
Emory
Iowa
Cincinnati
Einstein
Vermont
Penn State
Hofstra
Loyola
Creighton
U AZ
Tulane

 

[Vain Brother]

looks like a pretty good list. a couple of random ones in there (IA, penn state, cincinnati) that you could swap out with schools that give you a better shot as an out-of-stater, but overall not bad

 

[MRpremed-dudeguy]

looks like a pretty good list. a couple of random ones in there (IA, penn state, cincinnati) that you could swap out with schools that give you a better shot as an out-of-stater, but overall not bad

Which schools do you think give me a better shot as OOS?

 

[Vain Brother]

Which schools do you think give me a better shot as OOS?

how about rochester, hofstra, and wake forest?